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Patgarret
21
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Joined: 24th Jun 2003
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Posted: 17th May 2004 18:30
Hi, really basic question. I want to start out programming a little 2d rpg. My inspiration is the very old Wasteland. So it will be all about 2d simple graphics, heavy statistics-based characters and story.
I just want to know where I should start from. I really can't find any resource about this kind of game creation...

thanks
Vues3d on Kalimee
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Posted: 17th May 2004 18:47
it's hard to find some free resources... the one you can find are copyrighted... so the best thing would be you to create images & all graphics stuffs to use.
I know that isn't easy & is also long to realize... but personally I thing this is the best way.

Guido
http://www.vues3d.com
Patgarret
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Posted: 17th May 2004 19:02
I explained myself wrong. I dont want resources as graphics or code snippet...I want tutorials and examples on how to begin the work.
For example: how I setup the big 2d map that rapresent the world in the game? How can I make it scroll?

things like that...but no one seem to be interested in this kind of games...
zenassem
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Location: Long Island, NY
Posted: 17th May 2004 21:21 Edited at: 17th May 2004 21:29
I haven't played the game, but doing some searching I finally came up with a screenshot. I think that this is the game you are referring to. The liscense is held by EA, and was programmed by Interplay.



This game is a top-down tile based game. It's not that hard to get the foundation started (much easier than an ISO/HEX based system). I will look through my resources and see if I can provide you a link for a tutorial, although the code may be in C++ the concepts apply to all languages. I had begun a tutorial on how to accomplish this (a 2d rpg), but other projects have taken my time away from completing this.

The hardest parts in coding this type of game are.

1) Writing your own 2D mapeditor that can manage multiple layers. (It becomes to complex to manually build the levels by just editing a .txt file or with data statements. You should write a decent map editor, that allows you to place objects and set triggers, events, and the like.
2) Creating alot of tileable graphics. (It may sound easy at first, but even keeping it simple, there is a load of tiles you must draw. Including... terrain, items, characters + animation-frames, and depending on whether or not you "hard-code" a transition(fringing) algorithm into the map maker. If not you will need to create a lot of transition tiles.
3) "Hard-coding" the objectives, storyline/dialogue, events (triggers), can get complicated and not allow for manageabilty or quick changes. Plus you want to have the engine reusable so that you can expand/change the game. For this you will need to write a simple scripting/parsing module, or incorporate one that you can implent into your game. You can choose to "hard-code" it all, but as described above it becomes very difficult(exponentially) as the size (levels, and missions) grows.

I'll post some DBpro code on how a basic tile system works to get you started if you are still interested. Just be sure that you understand that these types of games are (difficult, time-wise) to complete. And you really have a better chance of suceeding if you own a book that specifically deals with these types of games. There is too much to know for a simple tutorial to cover. Best wishes.

~zen

Patgarret
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Posted: 18th May 2004 12:24
that's the game man!!
anyway thanks a lot for your help, that was a lot of useful information...I'm really interested...just keep in mind that as mush as for coding my biggest accomplishment so far is a space invader fully functioning game....that's all. i don't know how to create the map with txt...nor with a self built editor...as for graphics, no problemo I can do that...
The one thing that I really need is the coding method, a general idea of the main loop...just to get started

I think you know what I mean

thanks again for your help
Patgarret
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Posted: 18th May 2004 12:29
I forgot...as for the book....I really cant find one...any suggestion? Amazon uk or usa are my favourite sources

thanks
jasuk70
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Posted: 18th May 2004 13:41
The main thing you need to think about for your main loop is, do you want a real time type of game (I.e. if you sat still and didnt do anything monsters etc would still be wandering around and can attack you) or a more turn based game where everything waits for you to make a move (E.g. When you hit a key to move the character, it will at this point move all the monsters).

For the first scenario, a very basic main loop would probably look like:

{
> Has a key been pressed? If so Process key
> Has a new time intival passed? If so Move Monsters
> UpdateTime Is it day or night? Set colour sceme accodingly
}

With this method you may make a time intival 5 seconds, so the monsters wil move every 5 seconds whether you press a key ot not.

For the second scenario a very basic main loop would be

{
> Check for a key press
> If key pressed
> Process Key
> Move Monsters
> Update Time
}

In this method, moving your character triggers another time intival so the monsters move when you do.

I hope this is some help.

Jas

----
Http://www.jsun.co.uk
jasuk70
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Location: Hemel Hempstead
Posted: 18th May 2004 13:44
Whoops, the loop bits should look like:

Scenario 1


Scenario 2


----
Http://www.jsun.co.uk
Patgarret
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Posted: 18th May 2004 16:16
ok...understood...no problemo
I will go for it

Now my main concern is about the map...I really don't know anything about that.
Do you know where I can gather more info about designing this kind of games? I mean books, web sites...etc

thanks a lot
zenassem
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Location: Long Island, NY
Posted: 18th May 2004 17:33 Edited at: 18th May 2004 19:47
Patgarret,

I will post some helpful resources here. (Check back for edits). I will try to clean up the basic framework code that I have as well as an article illustrating some of the concepts, and have it geared to DBpro.
The "General Articles" that's free on the web is a little out-dated, highly C++ oriented, and/or doesn't contain enough visual examples.

In the meantime here are some links. It's worth checking them out. Even if you don't use the MAPPY editor, it's a good reference to see how a Map-maker should be created.

Tile-based RPG/Adventure/SideScroller Resources

2d Map Editor:
Mappy WIN32 for PC -
http://www.tilemap.co.uk/mappy.php

Mappy Replay for DB -
The mappy library gives dark basic the ability to import and use 2d maps created with the MAPPY Tilemap editor.
http://dblibraries.underwaredesign.com/

Graphics:
Free Tilesets -
Good resource for high quality Tiles. Best I have found on the Internet.
http://www.reinerstileset.4players.de:1059/englisch.htm

Programming theory:
Fringing Layer -
How a Hard-coded Fringing Layer Algorithm significantly reduces the number
of tiles that are needed. Code is in C++ but still a good article.
http://www.gamedev.net/reference/articles/article934.asp

List Of Languages/Game Creators:
Misc Game Creation tools list -
To help with your game design and port to DBP. It may be helpful to use a tool in conjunction with your DBPro development to get an idea for level-design, gameplay, etc. Specifically some of the Adventure creators. This is how you want to program your game. So that you can create the game through an interface.
http://www.ambrosine.com/resource.html

UnderLord
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Posted: 18th May 2004 17:39
i wonder who makes the graphics for reinerstileset's they now have red,blue,green and yellow archers you know what that sounds like...graphics for a good 2d strat game =P its a good place i go there often i got some graphics for a little thing im making there but uhh i havent worked on it for.....ever.....so yeah....

The search continues.

Current project - A space game
zenassem
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Location: Long Island, NY
Posted: 18th May 2004 19:50 Edited at: 18th May 2004 20:01
UnderLord,

From reading the info at his site, it appears that Reiner creates them all himself. You can use them freely even in a commercial game. The only thing he asks is to be mentioned somewhere in the credits, which I think is more than fair.

From his site.
Quote: "The tilesets are freeware. Even for commercial Games. I just want my name in the Credits in this case: Reiner "Tiles" Prokein. But that doesn´t mean that you cannot make a donation . Just Email me in this case ..."


Quote: "copyright © 2004 by reiner prokein

http://www.reinerstileset.de
email : [email protected]
Reiner Prokein, am Schlossberg 30, 71720 Oberstenfeld - Germany"


It would be interesting if TGC could team up with him and include his media with DBpro. I know they are freely downloadable but I think that these sets could definately enhance the Dbpro package. Especially, if sold as an expansion 2D/tile & Iso creator. I think that there are many people interested in these types of apps, even though 3D FPS's are sure to dominate for a long time to come. Maybe I need to stop being lazy and get back to my "2D Game Creator".

UnderLord
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Posted: 18th May 2004 20:50
Yeah you get back to your 2d game creator i need to stop being lazy and get back to my 2d space game which i still have yet to give it a offical name right now im calling it "a space game" hehehe

The search continues.

Current project - A space game

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