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Geek Culture / DirectX 7 obsolete?

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M00NSHiNE
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Posted: 18th May 2004 19:33
Im just wondering - do older versions of DX become obsolete and unusable as time progresses? Will people still be able to run DX7 games in five years time?

As most probably know, DX7 was the last version to use true 2d sprites instead of psuedo 3d environments. Will people still be able to use these games with video cards gearing at 3d effects etc

Will there still be 2d games in five years time?

OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 18th May 2004 19:43 Edited at: 18th May 2004 19:43
DX3,5, 7, 8 and 9 are all in the DX9 installation, so by the time DX10 comes out, I'm hoping that Microsoft will remove support for DX's before 7...

Quote: "Will there still be 2d games in five years time"

Still be possible, except will technically be in 3D


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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 18th May 2004 20:16
Technically only DirectX 7,8,9 are supported by DirectX 9.

7 - ... 3,5,6,7
8 - ... 8.0
9 - ... 8.1,9.0

DirectX is likely to continue the legacy support, it is what makes Microsoft products so good to work with. You can always be assured that no matter how far ahead the technology gets; until something actually becomes physically obsolete it will always be supported.

DirectX 3 is still there because alot of Windows 95 games like Command & Conquer which are still highly popular are played on a regular basis.

2D will never die out, sure sprites in Dx are now done using 3D as it is quicker. But you can always still make your own sprites using the Pixel Commands which still plot 2D. DirectX isn't the only Graphics APi out there either, so that is good to keep in mind too.


The Future Looks Bright, The Future Looks Like a Short Fat Plumber From The Bronx
M00NSHiNE
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Posted: 18th May 2004 20:46
Thats good to hear. My main worry was that when Longhorn comes along, everything is going to change

Ian T
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Posted: 18th May 2004 20:55
Quote: "DirectX is likely to continue the legacy support, it is what makes Microsoft products so good to work with. You can always be assured that no matter how far ahead the technology gets; until something actually becomes physically obsolete it will always be supported."


What exactly are you smoking ? Have you looked at their main page on support?

Gery
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Posted: 18th May 2004 23:40
The Coding Area: emoving 6? It cant be rtemoved coz the 7 are same as the 6, 5. Just some new commands added to it.
U want to ask Microsoft, to remove 10 kbyte from DirectX?

Hülye vagy, fiam?

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 18th May 2004 23:53 Edited at: 18th May 2004 23:55
No, 7 is not the same as 6. 6 is not the same as 5. Different versions may have only extra functions, but they are still different. I think you'll find that each DirectX version is more than 10K

What Microsoft should do in Longhorn is have DirectX10 on its own (nothing else)

You want to play a DX9 game - A check is made to see if DX9 exists - if not a prompt comes up asking you to download it.
Same with 8,7,5 or whatever. Each DX version would only contain 1 version, so if you dont have any DX7 games, you dont waste 10Mb on something you dont need.


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Gery
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Posted: 19th May 2004 00:19
more. Its too much of png files, dll-s to directsound, directinput, ect.

look the ddraw dll. Thats the ddraw, and the d3d8.dll. This too is the direct3d.

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 19th May 2004 00:22
What ?


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Dave J
Retired Moderator
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Posted: 19th May 2004 10:31 Edited at: 19th May 2004 10:31
I'm wondering the same thing. What the hell did he just say?


"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 19th May 2004 14:26
It looks like, unfortunately, The Gery is back...


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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 19th May 2004 19:39
TCA you idea seems a little backward, it would only save like 16MB on the CD/DVD.

Windows XP comes with DirectX 8.1 (3,5,6,7,8) 8.4MB
When you upgrade to DirectX 9 you download the libraries for it 7.6MB

It would be backward to put it so that you HAD to go online and download an old DirectX
3 - 4.2MB
5 - 6.5MB
6 - 6.7MB
7 - 7.1MB

all to save 16MB on the installation CD itself. Perhaps most people won't ever need each of them... but when you can have one runtime, run all of the old versions for around Quarter the HD space - i think that is pretty much a bargin.


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Yian
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Posted: 19th May 2004 20:33
Greetings to Geri!

I gots to go.
M00NSHiNE
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Posted: 19th May 2004 22:04
Say I needed to write my own sprite commands... not in darkbasic. How would it need to be done, using the Windows API or something like that?

OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 20th May 2004 15:18 Edited at: 20th May 2004 15:19
Quote: "TCA you idea seems a little backward, it would only save like 16MB on the CD/DVD"

Which is a good idea for laptops and things like that, especially if you dont have any old games which require old versions of DirectX. However, saying that, more space savings could be made if the stupid COM interface was dropped.

Quote: "Say I needed to write my own sprite commands..."

In Windows API, there is Blt and StretchBlt. With DX, its Blt (if I remember correct) - that can handle scaling and rotation (both at the same time if need be). There is (or was anyway - I dont have my DX docs to check) a FastBlt for just sprite displaying.


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PiratSS
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Posted: 20th May 2004 15:49
DX7 is the easiest to code with. I haven't tried previous versions, but when 8.0 came, it changed the structure totally. I would go with opengl instead of DX cuz its easier+multi-platform meaning that more people would actually buy your product.

Look how easy it is to code on OpenGL. This will create a single polygon on the screen:


And now DirectX:


It's up to you, but DirectX gets more complicated after that. i tried both languages and chose to go with OpenGL.

Good Luck.

OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 20th May 2004 15:55
OpenGL doesn't use the silly COM interface does it ?


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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 20th May 2004 17:05
Quote: "You can always be assured that no matter how far ahead the technology gets; until something actually becomes physically obsolete it will always be supported."


Microsoft Sidewinder Force Feedback Steering Wheel and Windows XP ....


God created the world in 7 days, but we're still waiting for the patch.
Neophyte
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Posted: 20th May 2004 20:59
@TCA

"OpenGL doesn't use the silly COM interface does it ?"

Nope. Not at all.
OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 20th May 2004 21:02
Probably should have studied it more than DX
DirectX would be more or less okay-ish if the COM interface was needed (which it isn't really).


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Damokles
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Posted: 20th May 2004 22:33 Edited at: 20th May 2004 22:34
Hmmm, but what if direct X 8 gets obsolete ? Will all my DBC programms be unusable ?

- Mind the gap -
OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 21st May 2004 02:16
Yes, by which time something else with have come along.


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Ian T
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Posted: 21st May 2004 03:08
Unfortunatly, yeah. But by then, most people who want to play old games will have a computer with an earlier version of DirectX... and by then, you should be updated to Pro (and it should be stable) .

Damokles
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Posted: 21st May 2004 16:14
Hmmm, very annoying. I suppose DircetX 9 will also get obsolete and DBpro impossible to use on an average computer.
Aren't there plans to make older DirectX emulators ?


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newbi 2 basic
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Posted: 21st May 2004 18:39
Maybe i dunno but a custom installation

so when you download DX 10 it asks if you want to include the lower DX supports....

or install recommended ones
etc etc etc.......

You know like how you goto install a program and it asks Custom or default... pretty much like that and it goes off and downloads it for you...


cause you always download a small app first before DirectX acctually starts (i am assuming so you can auto resume) which is kinda cool!

http://www.counterfeitcriminal.co.uk <--- Sons Of Angels Supports the fridge project.... Do you?
Gery
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Posted: 23rd May 2004 02:31
John: yo

koz i never go from here, it was not hard to come back, whi i allways ware here

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DrakeX
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Posted: 25th May 2004 06:21
"Aren't there plans to make older DirectX emulators ?"

i'm sure there will be, once they're needed, which probably won't be for a while.

i mean really. computers today don't have support for all the programs that were written for the 8088. but it's easily emulated, or you could just use an old 8088 (if it's still working..).

don't worry, if MS forced obsolescence on millions of gamers.. things would not be too bright for MS

i can understand why MS chose to make DX with COM. at the time that they made DX, COM was very popular. additionally, it's sort of a nice standardized method of encapsulating functionality, as C++ doesn't really offer any other way to do that other than through classes (and COM is really just a bunch of classes). but i agree, the COM interface is really pretty cumbersome to use. it has its advantages, but it's mostly just annoying.

alright, give him the stick -- DON'T GIVE HIM THE STICK!!

"Bouncy bouncy lock." - TheCodingArea

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