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Geek Culture / My Last Post & Why I Am Leaving

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KC27
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Joined: 18th Mar 2004
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Posted: 31st May 2004 14:43
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As I have stated, I am leaving the forums to work on my book. This is not the only reason I am leaving though. I am thoroughly disgusted with the way the forums are becoming, with newbies questions for the most part getting "STFU Newbie" or smileys, and the fact that most of the oldbies feel elitest. This is not all of you oldbies, but there are a few select ones who hassle the noobs. I highly regret ever joining, as I had been viewing the forum for 2 years, decided to join, and now I am leaving because of the treatment of newbies. Farewell, I will only be back to post in the help forums and the WIP forums. I am also annoyed at the fact I worked hard on my book, and then was accused of stealing it from Binary Moon. It is sad to say but many of you are paranoid now. Z Interactive: Please, you are on the way to being killed by a forum member or banned, so lay off the new posts every 15 seconds.

Give All The Credit Away
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Dave J
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Posted: 31st May 2004 14:47
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I disagree, the newcomer section of this forum is the best I've seen anyway, everytime I ask a question in there I get a fast and helpful response. The only time someone will get a yelling is if they post in the wrong forum.


"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
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Van B
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Location: Sunnyvale
Posted: 31st May 2004 15:12
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Frankly newbies should be put on the straight and narrow as soon as possible, otherwise they just irritate people. If a newbie asks for help but does'nt provide enough information - they should know better next time, the only way they can know what they did wrong is if someone points it out. There are a lot of newbies that make assumptions, like assuming that the moderators are somehow bound by TGC, or that if they post in a daft place someone will happily move it for them.

I don't really look in the newbie forums these days, not got the time right now - but when I do, I look for topics with 0 responses, so I would agree that negative comments are a problem, but they're not necesserily our problem (can I say that without sounding selfish).


Van-B


The nature of Monkey was irrepressible!.
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Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 31st May 2004 15:21 Edited at: 31st May 2004 15:23
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Or if they post an utterly stupid team request .

I don't think that newbs get mistreated, I think if they have the right attitude then they get treated and responded to fairly. However if they have the wrong attitude like, gimme da codez style, they get pointed in the right direction fairly promptly, and if they choose to leave cos they take it the wrong way, or if they just ignore it, that's their fault. Sure there may be a few idiots on this forum who step on the newbs, but the majority are mostly helpful.

About the binary moon thing. I looked at your tut compared to binary moon's tut and I only thought the way the whole thing was structured to be suspicious. I was cautious about what I said, because the tuts didn't look exactly the same to me, just the sub-headings were the same, and at the same time I didn't want to let you off straight away as I've seen people's work being copied/taken as their own before (a la CM C and that guy who "made" that cool looking racing game).

I can kind of understand Binary Moon jumping to conclusions, as he, like you, has spent a long time working on his tut, but he was a bit harsh to claim that most of it was copied with a few variable names changed, as anyone who looks at it can see it is not. Maybe he should apologise, I dunno, it's up to him... well I apologise aswell if I seemed to be accusing you, but I simply wanted to get the truth out.

In the end I can't stop you from leaving, but you say you will be returning to the help forums? I presume you mean to reply to questions, not ask questions. Well that's fine, and seems very helpful of you . I hope you get on well with your book, and look forward to learning something from it (I perticulary think you should expand on the AI section, as that is something we could all learn from ).

Athelon XP 1600+/Radeon 9600 Pro/256 RAM
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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 31st May 2004 15:21
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I don't think that the questions are coming from real newbies, just people pretending to be newbies. Some of them say things like give me the codes for space invaders, and it sounds suspicious.

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David T
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Posted: 31st May 2004 16:27
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I think I speak for most people here.

I have no problem with people new to programming.

I'll try and help them as much as possible, AS LONG AS THEY'RE WILLING TO PUT EFFORT IN.

I see too many people who
- Can't be bothered to use help files
- Want their whole game done for them by somebody else
- Pose as companies and want overnight success

Two strings walk into a bar. I'll have a pint says the first$%ASLDJ09920D"$"$D. Excuse my friend says the second, he isn't null terminated.
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Dave J
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Posted: 31st May 2004 16:30
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- Try to make money fast without putting in any effort


"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
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indi
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Posted: 31st May 2004 18:23
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bye WMG come back when your book is done.


fall down seven times, stand up eight
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Rob K
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Posted: 31st May 2004 18:52 Edited at: 31st May 2004 18:53
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<rant>

Sadly WMG has a fairly valid point about *some* of the newcomers.

When I see posts such as "how do I load a model" I am getting rather worried, it makes a mockery of DBPro being a "professional" dev. system. I wouldn't mind but it is clearly explained in the help files and the tutorials.

The worst problem is that very few of them have even a basic grasp of English and fail to grasp the fact that while a phrase like "i've gt a prblem. cn u hlp me?" is acceptable in a text message, it looks ridiculous on a forum.

</rant>

BlueGUI:Windows UI Plugin - All the power of the windows interface in your DBPro games. - Plus URL download, win dialogs.
Over 140 new commands
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Fallout
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Posted: 31st May 2004 19:14
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I go back to my old argument that db is marketted as an "easy game making tool" and not "much nicer than most languages, but still bloody hard to make a good game in" programming language. If you've never programmed before, you have no idea what to expect, and the marketting strategy of db does not go any way at all to letting people know that they are going to have a hard time learning how to code.

Not that I blame db. They're a business. They're not gonna say "hey, everyone! Check out our wicked product! 95% of you won't be able to use it successfully until about 6 months of learning, but some of you will!". But I'm sure the fact it appears to be "an easy game making tool" causes most of this. I doubt you get people in a C++/DirectX forum going "Hy! How make I do a tex go green when i pres t key now?"

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Ian T
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Posted: 31st May 2004 19:17
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Newbies are treated fairly well here. It's people like you, WMG, who spam the forum, that don't. You haven't done anything to earn our respect, so why do you expect to recieve it? It's trolls and spammers that get the business end of our flamethrowers. Good riddance.

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Falelorn
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Posted: 31st May 2004 20:14
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I personally think the people who talk in 1337 speak or shortened english, cn u hlp me cuz im a new uzr, should be warned once, and then locked for a week.

Make it Games - Tool Creation Designed for Games - MMO Creator, Project Manager, 3D Map Editor
http://www.makeitgames.com
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Ian T
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Posted: 31st May 2004 20:17
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g00d 1d3@ l0l

(sorry, I couldn't resist )

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Dazzag
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Posted: 31st May 2004 20:28
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Slap yourself around the head mouse....

Locked for a week? How about locked up for the week? Tops.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
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geecee3
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Posted: 31st May 2004 21:27
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I agree with what fallout says, DB is a language. nothing more. And like all languages, it takes time to learn. I have no qualms with noobs trying to LEARN by asking what may be a stupid to those who know their stuff. What get's me, Is the NOOB LAMERS who come to the TEAM REQUEST FORUMS and say, I WANT TO MAKE A FPS GAME. I WANT A TEAM. If they can come here and ask for a team in that manner, I think we should have automatic rights to SPAM, SCALD, FLAME etc their post for being pure rectum . If a thread is crap then it should be locked right away, but sometimes the MODS aint fast enough, and flamage occurs. MODS even do a bit of flaming and such themselves.

PS. for every noob-lamer Team Requester I flame, I help another newbie with something. It's called Karma. and mine is level.
I can appear to be very nasty at times, but this is sometimes the best way to get a noob-lamer to come clean. then get the help they really need. As Coders, Artists, Musicians, We have a duty to help the newbies develop their skills and in turn they will help other newbies. NOOB-LAMERS on the other hand should be treated with no respect whatsoever. it's like a stranger coming into your house and saying, "get me a beer from the fridge, I'm NOOB-LAMER and when you come back, I want you to code me a game. cuz i am ace at everything." Would you get the beers out, NO. you'd chin the 8a5tard.

regards, geecee3.

PS. I like to show the forum to friends. and boy do they think that WE are LAME for letting this happen on the forum in the first place.
'verging on lawless', is a typical response. HOW DO WE FIX THE SYSTEM SO AS IT WORKS BETTER?

PPS. wooly, come on dude. I won't be having a go any more. I read some of your stuff for the newbies. Doing the teaching thing and writing user guides seems to be your forte' (I think that's what it's called.) Anyway you do that well, and you should stay. Start a NEWBIE INDUCTION THREAD, that will explain to the newbies that coding and game creating is a worthwhile but difficult task . Explain to them that the TEAM REQUESTS are where you head off to next after they have gotten some coding skills and small demos under their belts. Be a sort of community copper (police). Rounding up the newbies and giving them the low down on how to get into, not form a team. I think that by staying and concentrating on the newbies, and acting as a guide in general. wil be of great service to the forums as a whole. It would be a challenge, and a worthwhile one at that. so do the forum and yourself a favour. STAY.

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David T
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Posted: 31st May 2004 21:32
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Quote: "PS. I like to show the forum to friends. and boy do they think that WE are LAME for letting this happen on the forum in the first place.
'verging on lawless', is a typical response. "


Lol.

I've seen many forums with a vey complex hierarchy, intracate rules and a whole army of mods.

However, on the contrary, this forum nice n relaxed and it suits me this way

Two strings walk into a bar. I'll have a pint says the first$%ASLDJ09920D"$"$D. Excuse my friend says the second, he isn't null terminated.
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adr
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Posted: 31st May 2004 21:52
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I think I posted in the newcomer's section for about 3 months before I even "dared" to post in the regular section. I knew that I knew nothing about the language, so I kept quiet until I knew a bit more. You on the other hand, along with C/\/\C, Z-Interactive and a couple of others came in and just caused a load of trouble. Be that repeatedly posting pointless threads, asking silly questions, or showing no effort...

If you were MEANT to understand it, we wouldn't have called it 'code'
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geecee3
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Posted: 31st May 2004 22:05
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@ David T. that's a quote of the general opinions of people who see what i'm doing, and what goes on in the team requests.

It is relaxed, and i myself like the forums in general. but there are issues that need sorting. A fair amount of stuff i've seen on the forums is good. were talking quality code, teams, threads etc.

Sifting your way through the crap to find this stuff is annoying.
getting the chance to work with some of the creators of this stuff would be brilliant. If I could find the right threads easier.

If I post a thread asking for a team formation on the forum, i'd have to put up with all the NOOB-LAMERS replying with what would be useless info. Deterring REAL PEOPLE from replying. and perhaps missing the opertunity to get involved in something that is not beyond the scope of our collective capabilities.

ok, i'm off to finish Manticore Night's tune now.
but i'll pop in later to see if wooly stays.

regards, geecee3.

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Ian T
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Posted: 31st May 2004 22:09
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Quote: "If I post a thread asking for a team formation on the forum, i'd have to put up with all the NOOB-LAMERS replying with what would be useless info."


If it was an intelligent post describing what you were doing, no, you wouldn't. There are many examples of this.

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geecee3
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Posted: 31st May 2004 22:28
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hey, thanks, I may give it a try.

someone suggested making one thread i posted in a sticky. HOW A BAD THREAD GOES GOOD. (I'm actually an ok guy, if you'r a 100% honest, no BS kind of person.)

regards geecee3.

PS.
quotes are selective and lame man!! opinions interest me. i know what i said.

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Zenincanin 14
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Posted: 31st May 2004 23:23
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Woa! Mr. Wooly Mammoth Games or the so called "CmC" is telling me to stop posting!

Good Games Are Made by Powerful Coders
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SubNova
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Posted: 31st May 2004 23:28
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Would any of you like me to leave???

Death by skill, not by force.-Iron Condor
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David T
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Posted: 31st May 2004 23:44
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Quote: "@ David T. that's a quote of the general opinions of people who see what i'm doing, and what goes on in the team requests."


I didn't mean to say your opinions were wrong. I only meant to say that alot of people are used to the ultra strict regimes some forums run

Two strings walk into a bar. I'll have a pint says the first$%ASLDJ09920D"$"$D. Excuse my friend says the second, he isn't null terminated.
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Zenincanin 14
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 00:42
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maybe this will prove I'm not WMG!

Good Games Are Made by Powerful Coders
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Chris K
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 00:57
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Maybe not
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Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 00:58
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I try and stay well clear of the team requests forum... unless I need a good laugh .

Athelon XP 1600+/Radeon 9600 Pro/256 RAM
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Zero Blitzt
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 01:00
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It's possible to tell yourself to stop posting. Like I could tell myself to not post this, yet I don't.

GXEntertainment - http://gxe.dbspot.com/
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MikeS
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 01:01
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Quote: "maybe this will prove I'm not WMG!"


Or it'll prove that WMG(you) made this post so you could say that 1000 times and try to fool us.

A book? I hate book. Book is stupid.
(Formerly known as Yellow)
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Kentaree
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 01:11
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Sigh. WMG, go then, no need to keep telling everyone you are going to go. Z Interactive, why don't you join him too? Maybe it will allow for a bit of breathing space in the forums.

Its not a bug, its a feature!
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Zenincanin 14
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 01:32
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neh!

Good Games Are Made by Powerful Coders
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SubNova
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 01:48
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Do you?

Death by skill, not by force.-Iron Condor
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Chris K
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 01:50
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Someone check IPs on Iron Condor.

I'm suspicious

*eyes flit left and right*
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SubNova
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 01:55
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Just state your opinion, please. It's me.

Death by skill, not by force.-Iron Condor
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Jeku
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 02:22
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@Iron Condor - I don't even know who you are. When you say 'It's me', who?

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soapyfish
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 02:40
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I've got to say this was a quite in depth discussion until Z interactive came along but there ya go. As for the forums, I doubt if any one remembers me when i first joined as proshooter but back then I enjoyed coming to the forums because I knew I could go to the newbie section have a look around and maybe ask a question if I needed to. I think the one reason I never really got flamed was because I read the stickys at the top and this is obviously someone a lot of people don't bother to do. However if a post is good enough but someone still flames it then there's usually enough people to flame the flamer and help the original poster out.

@WMG It's sad to see you going but I don't blame you, I saw your post in the team request section and you got a lot of negative re-plies from that, if there's one problem with this forum it's the fact that the mods don't stop things like this. They lock bad requests (sometimes) and lock any posts that look like they could start an arguement but they never seem to lock a post where someone is getting pounded for no reason, they seem to keep it open purely for the amusement of others.

WAS DOING AN FPS BUT RAN AWAY AND STARTED ON MISSILE COMMAND INSTEAD.
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KC27
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 03:13
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I will be back, but just to help people and browse, you will not see anymore team requests from me again, unless it has to do with the book.

Give All The Credit Away
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IanM
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 03:22
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Will you guys let up on WMG. He is not Z - period!

I can't answer whether he and his brother are the same person, but WMG is doing some good work, so at this moment in time, I DON'T CARE!

... BTW, has anyone seen where Z's posts have gone?

*** Coming soon - Network Plug-in - Check my site for info ***
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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 03:29
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If you ignore anything long enough it will go away. If everyone keeps flaming Z (giving him/her attention) he/she will continue to post useless crap over and over again.

"People don't fail ..... they stop trying." Specs. P4 2.8GHz 800 FSB | 512MB DDR333
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Zenincanin 14
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 03:30
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HA! It's been proved!

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Mattman
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 04:27
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WMG, stop acting so stuck up
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Ian T
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I've been aware that WMG and Z are different for a few days now, but the fact is WMG has himself trolled the forum before, under that very identity. Pathetic money-making scheme after scheme after scheme. It gets very old. I'm glad he's doing some good stuff now, but he's still got a negetive balance in my book.

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indi
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 07:28
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if you work hard on the book you can keep this signature image and icon.






dont hotlink it from my site ill remove it in a few weeks


fall down seven times, stand up eight
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Dave J
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 10:47
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Quote: "I think I posted in the newcomer's section for about 3 months before I even "dared" to post in the regular section."


Yeah, me too lol. Mainly because I didn't want people to realise I didn't know anything so I only asked questions in the newcomers section until I had a firm grasp of the language and then eventually started to read the other forums too lol.


"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
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Jess T
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 19:42
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Well, WMG, I hope the book goes well ( cos I had some input into it, hehe ). But, from what I've seen of it so far, it does look like quite a potentially good resource for any and all users

Re: Joining Forums,
When I first joined the forums, I was already fair efficient with DB ( my first majour language ), and only needed a bit of help to start with, then from that point on, I just paid back to the community what I had been given in the form of more and more help, to any and all that needed it I even got a few threads deticated to me saying how helpfull I am

With the problems about the increasing amount of annoyingly idiotic posts, if the new Forum system gets implimented that was proposed by Rich in the sticky in the DBP forums, then alot of us wont have to worry about it anymore

About the problem with people simply not reading the help files, I have, for quite a while now ( since the idea of DB Tutor, if anyone remembers that ) been helping a particular individual in his endevours to code a game in DBC, and it turns out, that all this time he'd been asking for help, he *still* hadn't read the help files, or any sort of tutorial, or anything besides the forums ( where he only posted Q's rather than search ). Haveing said that, he's always kind and thankful, and gives back what little knowledge he has when it's needed.

Jess.


Team EOD :: Programmer/Logical Engineer/All-Round Nice Guy
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KC27
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 22:19
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Well, it will get better, I plan to add NG stuff as well as a lot of other stuff Binary Moon did not mention, as I do encourage newbirs, and want them to have a great resource to learn from.

@ Indi, thanks for the avatar and sig image. I may not put the image on until I return with the book finished.

Give All The Credit Away
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HZence
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 23:25
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Quote: "until I return "


You mean right now? You said the first post of this thread was your last post, yet here you are again...


Team EOD :: Programmer/Storyboard Assistant
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KC27
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 23:29
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Well, I mean from new posts and questions, I am only here to answer questions and update the book.

Give All The Credit Away
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Eric T
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 23:30
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But you just did a new post

"I like you... when the world is mine, you death shall be quick and painless"
Current good thing: Magic the Gathering Fifth Dawn Prearealese
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Ian T
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2004 01:05
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Oh, let up on him, it's not like he can point out the obvious to people anywhere else

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KC27
20
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Joined: 18th Mar 2004
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2004 03:45
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Quote: "Oh, let up on him, it's not like he can point out the obvious to people anywhere else "


Confused, very confused

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