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Work in Progress / vanMESH - Update 1-6-04

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Van B
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Location: Sunnyvale
Posted: 1st Jun 2004 13:24
Hi all,

Some screenies first off:







Ok, so here's what I got done since my last update.

* Finished the viewport handling.
* Started script handling - (finished function handling, variable handling, script loading, global handling, function passing (both internal and standard maths), and formula evaluation is done except for conditions. - see later...
* Finished vertice selection (now you can add and remove verts with a selection box).
* Started script dialog support - see later...
* Added a status console and status tracking.
* Added vertice hiding.
* Added vertice linking - see later...
* Added normals calculating (Thanks Kevil).
* Added bumpmap, detail map, blend map, and shader support - see later...


Script handling is quite well on it's way - most of the tools will be controlled by scripts, like instead of coding a cube creation routine, I'll be making a script subroutine to handle all that stuff. You'll be able to make your own scripts and tools, for instance it'd be perfectly reasonable to make your own normal calculating or UV mapping tools - the script syntax is not exactly basic, but the maths format is fairly close to DB.

A neat dialogue system has been added, for example the little message box there is really 5 seperate functions, one for each control - and they'll be called through simple string scripts. Typically you'll right click on a tool or menu option and it'll open it's options dialog - of course you'll be able to make your own dialogs for your own script plugins. I've added labels, text boxes, any-width command buttons, RGB selector controls, as well as the standard dialog control. I'm adding file selector controls, toggle buttons, etc etc.

I've added vertice linking to help avoid normals calculation errors among other things. Basically, when you optimise a mesh, you can't optimise a vert that has a unique UV coordinate, so linking verts is a bit like welding verts, except the verts are only linked together. A good example is a sphere, usually a sphere will have an obvious seam where the UV data won't fold over - linked verts can still calculate their normals etc properly.

I added shader support (doh) - not sure how useful it'll be to most folk, but if your making a mesh for a shader, you'll be able to run the shader while modelling - it is great fun modelling in chrome. I was pleasantly surprised at how nicely you can run shaders while editing verts.


My next hurdle is condition parsing for scripts, once I get that done and add more functionality to the whole script system I can script out the tools and dialogs - that'll all take a while though because it is a huge chunk of the coding work.


Van-B


The nature of Monkey was irrepressible!.
M00NSHiNE
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 14:49
This is looking very promising Van. Love the dialog box in the last shot - infact the whole interface looks fantastic. Cant wait to try this out, keep up the good work

Chris K
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 15:32
Awesome as expected
Falelorn
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 22:01
Nice work, as always

Make it Games - Tool Creation Designed for Games - MMO Creator, Project Manager, 3D Map Editor
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Jimmy
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2004 04:50
You've got the date wrong, it's June 1st, not Jan. 6th

Maybe in Scotland that is acceptable, but here in a little place I call, REALITY or The "American Way" it's just an abomination.

BTW Lookin really good, can't wait to model something with the correct date on it.

----

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Van B
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2004 11:27


Some would say we Brits should have the last say on the date format my man, especially in a British company website . For instance...

USA:
Month/Day/Year

UK
Day/Month/Year

Now see how the little one goes first (day), then the next big one (month), then the biggest one (year). It's almost like a system, perhaps best related to time, HH:MM:SS, unless of course those daft merikans use the lesser known HH:SS:MM format. Honestly, you guys are like a big kid in a playground, copying the smarter kids homework but inserting random mistakes in order to avoid detection .


Van-B


The nature of Monkey was irrepressible!.
Surreal Studio IanG
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2004 12:37
Van-B could you add a character insert function into Van-mesh, like the one fgound in SoftImage xsi. Where you can insert a human person then change the features around, because that would make all our lives easier.

PC Spec- AMD Athlon 2.0Ghz, GeForce FX5200 128mb, 512MB of ram, Win XP Home SP1

Error 0 = no error - how is this an error the???
Van B
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2004 13:11
Actually there'll be prefab everything. For instance, you'll be able to add a hand mesh prefab, then just stick it onto your character - I may even be able to automatically join your selected bodyparts together. One cool idea is that I can UV map the pieces on a standard texture - then the UV mapping will already be done, and it won't interfere with other prefab bodyparts. The ascii file format for vanmesh is already in place and has been designed with future expansion and adaptability in mind (like I could add another data field to the verts list without worrying about older file formats, it's all dynamic). Something that I added right at the start was vert twinning, this is a superb character modelling trick where instead of chopping your character in half and mirroring to maintain symetry - you simply twin the verts and any modifications on (for instance) a left hand will automatically be mirrored on the right hand. Once I get a good set of prefabs together, you'll be able to throw character meshes together in no time at all (if I feel brave enough - I'll add an option to generate a character randomly!).


Van-B


The nature of Monkey was irrepressible!.
Surreal Studio IanG
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2004 13:25
that sounds great

PC Spec- AMD Athlon 2.0Ghz, GeForce FX5200 128mb, 512MB of ram, Win XP Home SP1

Error 0 = no error - how is this an error the???
CPU
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2004 18:36
This looks like it has TONES of potential, i do however have one question, when you export a model will you be able to create lightmaps and calculate lighting within the program and export them along with the model?

Sparring - Loved by many, Pefected by few.

I'm going to live forever, or DIE IN THE ATTEMPT!!!"
AramusM
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2004 20:38
One quick question, how are you moving the verts around? using the hidden vertex manipulation commands or your own stuff with memblocks?
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2004 13:37
Nice model VanB. Can I ask a dumb q? Is VanMESH a modeller? Can you make models organic and static?

P.S in Australia we go by Day/Month/Year as well.
Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2004 14:10 Edited at: 3rd Jun 2004 14:14
Ye, shut it Jimmy, we're always right . And may I add, which way is it that came first ?

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Van B
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2004 14:25
CPU,
Yup, DX supports vertice colours anyway, but you have to load the model as a mesh - until I get a DBO export working though, you'll only be able to use lightmaps on static objects. It should be pretty good for designing levels. I doubt that it'll ever have a traditional pixel lightmapper - probably more likely to have a lightmap texture creator, so for levels you have vertice lights (Z-depth errors don't apply ), and for characters you'll be able to create a detail or light map for it - as well as being able to create a bumpmap and other ancilliary textures that you might need for shader effects and mapping commands.

Aramus,
I have my own internal format, but when vertice editing it just updates the memblock data. I have it set to take advantage of better vert editing commands when they're officially available, but really it plenty fast with just the change mesh command - it'll only update the mesh periodically, no need to change it for every tiny adjustment.

RPG,
Hehe, I reckon Simon from TGC made the Colonel - I'm just using it as a test model. I still have a lot of tools to add before I can make decent models, unless I felt like placing verts and applying polygons to them - not really a fun way to model . vanMESH is being designed primarily for creating low poly models, sorta 50/50 between level entity creation (like a small building or room for a FPS), and character creation. I intend to support .x mesh animation, as well as an internal format (geared towards easy ragdoll implimentation, if you wanted your ragdoll to take over halfway through an animation sequence - this is a sensible option). I'm hoping that vanMESH will be the ideal modelling app for FPSC.


Van-B


The nature of Monkey was irrepressible!.
David T
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2004 15:11
Wow Van, looking very very professional. Like the tool windows

What will the learning curve be like with this? Could a novice at modelling like me pick this up and find a use for it or is it more of a niche?

Quote: "You've got the date wrong, it's June 1st, not Jan. 6th "


Piss off. This is a British web site AND WE WILL DO IT THAT WAY.

Two strings walk into a bar. I'll have a pint says the first$%ASLDJ09920D"$"$D. Excuse my friend says the second, he isn't null terminated.
Van B
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2004 16:02
Thanks ,

Well ease of use a big factor for me - I'm a novice and am sick and tired of stumbling through all those apps just to get a mediocre (if I'm lucky) mesh done. There's always more issues when making models for a game engine, because your never sure how it will actually look, if the mesh will load properly, if the normals will be fine, if the texture will be inverted.... there's so much that can go wrong - I've wanted a WYSIWYG modeller for so long I'm resorting to this .

In terms of how it works though, it's pretty technical because you have so much control - I mean all the data for the mesh will be available and editable - even the normals vectors will be rotatable. But one major factor with learning to model is simply knowing how a mesh works, especially UV mapping - in VANmesh, you click a vert - and it highlights the vert and shows it's normal vector in all views. UV mapping should be much more accessible and understandable because you'll see exactly how it will work and look. The tools will all be fairly easy to use, I imagine that extruding polylines is probably gonna be the primary tool - and that's just drawing point to point lines then turning them into a solid block with a specified height - after that you can drag your verts to your hearts content. I'm pretty confident that people will find it easy to learn, although it should be powerful enough to keep experienced modellers happy.


Van-B


The nature of Monkey was irrepressible!.
David T
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2004 20:52
Cool

If you're a novice and can use words like that, I'd hate to think what I am

Two strings walk into a bar. I'll have a pint says the first$%ASLDJ09920D"$"$D. Excuse my friend says the second, he isn't null terminated.
Jess T
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Posted: 4th Jun 2004 19:30 Edited at: 4th Jun 2004 19:32
Quote: "I have my own internal format"


*Cough* ...



Seriously though, it's starting to look like a really good program you have there Van

I always wanted to make a modeler of my own... But after actually learning about modeling ( the indepth stuff like verticies and UV etc ) it all seemed to hard.
But, you've stuck with it, and what a great app you've produced

Jess.


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Van B
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Posted: 4th Jun 2004 19:36
Yup, is that unbelievable?

A mesh is the 3D representation of data, nothing more - the way I store and update this data is upto me and my internal format! . When moving a vert - your not moving a memblock vert, your moving changing a piece of data that is part of the mesh generation system, the mesh is the end result.

But I suppose the cough was for the fact that it's still a standard memblock mesh.


Van-B


The nature of Monkey was irrepressible!.
Jess T
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Posted: 4th Jun 2004 19:47
Not quite...

I'm guessing you didn't end up using those unlocked ( vertex ) functions that I emailed to you a little while back? If so, I retract my Cough, lol.

Jess.


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David T
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Posted: 4th Jun 2004 19:56
I want to build my own format and displayer one day.

I will use make object triangle!

Two strings walk into a bar. I'll have a pint says the first$%ASLDJ09920D"$"$D. Excuse my friend says the second, he isn't null terminated.
Van B
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Posted: 7th Jun 2004 11:20
Jess,
Nah, I decided to leave the mesh building simple for now and wait and see what the next update bring. I have to do a lot of work on the mesh builder anyway, because I need to split each material up, the mesh will have to be built from limbs (as opposed to a single mesh). Not fun, but it means I can play with the shaders on a limb level instead .

David,
The very first test used Make Object Triangle - not textured because texturing with created triangles is like trying to pick your ear with a cricket bat.


Van-B


The nature of Monkey was irrepressible!.
Jess T
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Posted: 7th Jun 2004 16:08
Ah, ok, that's fair enough Van

Quote: "texturing with created triangles is like trying to pick your ear with a cricket bat."


lmao !

Jess.


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Rob K
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Posted: 8th Jun 2004 01:51
Quote: "Hehe, I reckon Simon from TGC made the Colonel "


Captain Constipation is back!

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CPU
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Posted: 11th Jun 2004 19:48
i am assuming that you can inport plain 3ds or .x models and then apply textures and uv map the model then export it with those textures intact right? Oh one more thing that i don't think has been asked, are you going to plan to sell this or just relese it as a freeware program?

Sparring - Loved by many, Pefected by few.

I'm going to live forever, or DIE IN THE ATTEMPT!!!"
Mitchell
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Posted: 11th Jun 2004 21:35
I could really use this! Keep it up!

"A delayed game is eventually good, a bad game is bad forever"
- Shigeru Miyamoto

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