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Hey everybody, wanna hear a FUNNY STORY?

Okay. Let me start from the beginning. We have one programming teacher at my school. She knows C++, Java, SQL, PHP, etc. She teaches multiple programming classes, including Structured Computer Programming I & II (C++) and Data Structures (Java).

Now she's designed these courses so that both C++ courses are prerequisites to the Java courses. Why it's designed this way I really don't know. She seems to think it works fine like that, so I'll take her word for it. Anywho, this woman is EXTREMELY biased toward Java. She despises C++ in comparison and thinks that Java is oh so much better and can do so much more (although C++ was the industry standard for years!!). Moreover she seems to have brainwashed her Java students into thinking this. Me? I've been programming since I was 11 and I have a little bit of understand about C++, Java, BASIC, and so on. I don't necessarily "agree" with everything she has to say, nor do I agree with the way she's so closed minded toward BASIC -- especially DarkBASIC! Today (since it's the end of the year and there's nothing to do) I was sitting in class talking to my brother and my friend Mike about DarkBASIC, all of its capabilities and how awesome I think it is, and the 10 free copies offer. Low and behold she goes "Hmm, I wonder if Java can do anything like that yet?" I sort of ignored and kept talking to mike. Within the next few minutes she's like "oh here we go, Java3D!" I walk over to look at her Laptop screen to see that she has Oracle's website up and she's showing all this stuff Java can do and whatnot.

Now I suggest to her to try DarkBASIC Professional, and that there was a free trial download on, well, here. She seemed to be tuning me out, but I thought she might not have heard me (I talk kinda quiet) so I said it again. This happened about twice more until she finally went to "www.thegamecreators.com". Yay. She was like "now what am I doing?" and I said "download the trial of DarkBASIC pro." I walked away for a sec and I came back. She was looking at her desktop and there was the setup for DB v 1.13. I told her it was classic, but oh well, ya know, it still shows the power of the language. She was like "so what to I do?" I felt kinda stunned -- what do you THINK you do? So I say "install it". She got all snotty and said in a very immature voice "do i have to? i mean it says DARK basic. How do I know there's not a virus or something in there?" That was a bit aggrivating, and I said "trust me, it's legit." So she installs it. She goes to run it and --

Error: could not initialize direct x.

And she's like "see now I installed this whole thing and it won't even run." I was like "errr, no, you probably either don't have direct x or you have too old a version."

Here's what's funny: I'm guessing she doesn't have direct x. At the beginning of the year I was talking to her about direct x -- SHE HAD NO IDEA WHAT IT WAS! LOL! Then i mentioned an AGP slot - DIDN'T KNOW WHAT THAT WAS EITHER!!!!

WTF?!?!??!?!?! that pisses me off. at times i feel more qualified than her!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 though i'm probably not since I don't know Java very well, heh.

Yeah, so in the end she's thinking "oh yeah darkbasic sucks". I could just tell by the look on her face. She almost looked prideful that her "java had sufficed". There's really no convincing her that BASIC doesn't suck.

Now I have a question: is Java better than C++ in ANY SHAPE OR FORM? Somehow I doubt it.

/rant over

C++ all the way baby!

Personally, I haven't used Java so I wouldn't know about it's advantages or disadvantages.

As far as darkbasic goes, there's nothing wrong with a basic language (guess that's why I use it.).

An interesting story though. I'm a little surprised that your teacher didn't know where to begin when installing db (Just hope she doesn't venture in the forums to find this.) .

Yeah I hate that. I went to a computer camp last year where they offer a game making class (DarkBASIC Classic, and some Macromedia click and drag), but I took the Robotics course b/c I know DB already. All the people are like "dark basic is for babies" and they cant figure out how to import a model, and im like try Milkshape? All thier final project was, was a modified tank demo by Lee lol.

I have never tried Java though. I thought it was only for annoying internet apps that always crash on me. Like java buttons and crap. (Not javascript) Besides, java is a bad name. Reminds me of coffee. Given just the names on a paper, I would take C++.

No, she probably thinks Netscape is better than IE. She won't get far



Amen to that. Try telling her that though -- GAH!!!!!

Isnt that camp called CyberCamp??? I went to that.... I took C++ there but the most annoying thing there.......................were like 5 ppl doing Klick n Play these kids asked the counsler how to do stuff but they ddnt even no how to do it!! then one kid said they figured out how to make the charcter how to change direction when it moved then all the kids huddle around them like COOL!! AWSOME!! i was sitting there luaghing

Java are those bitch internet apps that slow down IE badly right? I have to say that it does it's job as an internet based language, but IMO it's C++ down to the grave. The prime superiority of Java over C++ is compatibility, because it runs on VM instead of compiling to machine code. Even if you program an OpenGL or D3D app in C++ I doubt her comp could run it anyway to appreciate it's speed and power.

Java is cool because it has its own built-in "garbage collection" that basically frees up memory by itself so you don't have to (ala C/C++). Java servelts are very useful, but I agree that Java applets are usually a waste of speed.

But Jeku, overall (in terms of stars), how would you rate Java Vs. C++? Keep in mind features as well as power (ie how much of the computer it actually gives you control of).

Ok ok first thing Java is not slow. One thing you also gotta know is that Java is a young lang.

I love Java.
ok before you start ranting about how java is so bad let me explain Java in a cool way. Most things you do in C++ you can do in Java these days.
-more facts about java-
You do not do pointers in Java but prabily you all ready know that. You do not use functions in java. Java is 100% OOP from the ground up.






I do not know why you say that. Java is great for networks and is very secure. Plus just useing Java Apps doesn't show its true power. Did you ever run a Java application as a normal application?

Pros of Java-
Muiltiplatform
Very Secure
None Memory Leaks(You can still get them tho but rarely)
Its Syntax is very similar to C++
its 100% OOP
Great for networks.
Easy to muilti Thread


Cons-
Runs off VM(but thats not really a problem. Still goes very fast)
May take a little longer to load
--------------------------------------------------------------
This was from this article
http://java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/Interviews/games/

Quesion-

Answer-

here is how easy Java is

public class cool{
public static void main(String args[]){
try{
if (Integer.parseInt(args[0])>=0 || Integer.parseInt(args[0])<=0)
System.out.println("Wow your name is a pure number");

}catch(Exception e){

System.out.print("Your Name is "+ args[0]);
}

}
}




---------------------




Now to another topic
What the heck your talking about IE stanks. Plus getting media is a a lot easyer with Netscape if there is no link to it. Right now I use netscape.

It was a joke.

And IE doesn't "stank."

Netscape screws up my cookies. I shall never use Netscape, ever.

Turning into another "which language pw33ns?" thread. I can't say anything about Java itself since I've never had any experience with it, but with regards to speed, it's measured by the efficiency of the compiler. But if you want quick comparisons, here's the first that came off google:

http://verify.stanford.edu/uli/java_cpp.html

Most of you should know Amit for his AI articles. Of course, go with the language that suits you best. Until I get any experience with Java to judge for myself, I'm sticking to C++. No flaw is ever big enough to raze the mighty fortress that is C++.

btw, anyone who bashes basic (particularly VB) will have to go up against CattleRustler first.

And me

Uhm, vb is *very* weak. Case in point.. http://legion.gibbering.net/misterx/troutwar.php?s=Orca

OK may as well have my 3.4 pence worth (gues thats about 2cents)

Java is good for learning OOP. As you basically have to use it unlike C++ etc where you can revert back to using C to get around problems. It is relatively well structured, in the same way Pascal is well structured. Unlike BASIC which is an unstructured language.

However having programmed in COBAL(evil language), Pascal/Delphi, BASIC, C/C++, Java & Assembler my conclusions on Java are (I'll pick up a few points from Great_Knight here as well ) :

Multiplatform - Only if I install a Virtual Machine first. Why on earth would I wand to basically run a byte code interpreter on my nice fast PC? You can natively compile it, but then whats the point. If I want speed I may as well use a C/C++ compiler for each platform I wish to run on.

Very Secure - If its meant that Java apps can as standard no damage your system, then this is true. On the other hand it then becomes very frustrating when requiring access to local machine resources & the fact it has to cross-platform compatible. I don't really see this as a plus point at all unless you insist in developing internet distributed apps.

Well is it fast? Nope and a little bit of yes, It's faster than standard interpreters but not as fast as natively compiled applications.



Sun Microsystems developed Java in 1995 (previously known as Oak and was developed for embedded systems between 1991-1994 ). OK its been around 9 years whereas C++ has been around approx 20. I can see C/C++/C# or variations being here in around another 10 years and still being very strong, I don't see Java being much more used than it is today.

Due to the Sun/Microsoft issue many (many) commercial development houses opted to try and stear away from using Java due to its uncertain future. Although the concept of a small deployable multiplatform application is a wonderful idea, my personal feeling is that Java will never fully fulfill this role for due to commercial reasons. I am not a fan of ActiveX based technology either.

However as we have gone full circle and more and more business apllications are now being run centrally again through either web based applications or the use of thin-client technology such as terminal services/citrix, it will be interesting to see what happens as the browser DOM fully develops. (I personally dont even use a local copy of Outlook anymore for work as Exchange 2003 Outlook Web Access, gives me full functionality without anything more than a browser).

I have to say I dont really understand why on earth educational institutions try to start with teaching an Object Orientated Language. I think is is better to learn a conventional structured language first as it teaches greater understanding of how the machine actually works with regards to instructions, data storage and i/ o .It's also easier then for a newcomer to learn more with regards to program optimisation.

I would also add that you should know how the basic building blocks of a CPU works (ie Processor inc registers,stack,pc and memory etc) not sure how on earth you are meant to understand push/pop, pointers, interupts or memory pooling without that.

As the original post was relating to studying which should then lead to some kind of career prospects the most common kind of development work is normally writing bespoke applications or small add-ons for clients:

If you have Java & C/C++ in your skills bag then you have probably just halved your potential employment, as opposed to having VB & C/C++ in your skills bag (not saying VB is a fantastic language its just required by many employers).

Our company often employs programmers for the above type of applications & apart from the ability to not empty the coffee machine & be able to actually talk to clients our ideal core skills list would currently be:

VB/VB.NET
VBScript(ASP, now integrated into .net )
C/C++/C#
HTML/DHTML

For more games specific work you probably be looking at:
C/C++
Possibly Assembler
Good knowledge of DirectX & possibly OpenGL APIs (If PC based)

I used to work desighning & building custom motherboards & programming the BIOS, OS & some of the software this basically required:
Assembler(various processors)/Machine Code
C

So C/C++ is a must whatever field you will be in, the rest is specific to what type of development you expect to do really.

Twynklet

I made one game in Java, but Java is really long to code, I mean I'd rather just load an image in one command instead of writting a bloody module for it.

particularly VB.NET, but true.

Java is an awesome language (as well as C++ goes without saying). Anyone familiar with coding in .NET and with Java sees that Java is basically the model for .NET syntax and structure.

C/C++ seems rather chumpy to me.

Indeed.

My IT teacher is just clueless, I ended up doing her job twice at college, first explaining to the class what a pendrive was, then explaining what a router was. She seemed pretty surprised when a technician opened a PC up so everyone could look inside (and supposedly be amazed). Hm.

AH! , obviously some definition of easy I wasn`t formerly aware of

here`s how easy B.A.S.I.C is (based loosley on what I think the above mess does .. except I don`t know what a pure number is so you get a different function )


input name$
size=len(a$)
print "wow! you have a name that is ";size;" letters long"
print "your name is ";name$
wait 5000

hmm! obviously waaay more complicated than Java <sarcasm>

Mentor.

The Java code does a bit more, though.
It reads the command line checks whether the first parameter is a number or a string and according to the result prints a text.
The code shows (partly) how to handle command line parameters, type checking (a bit unorthodox perhaps) and error handling.

Curious, the java code posted looks exactly like C#.

In fact here is the C# equiv: