Sorry your browser is not supported!

You are using an outdated browser that does not support modern web technologies, in order to use this site please update to a new browser.

Browsers supported include Chrome, FireFox, Safari, Opera, Internet Explorer 10+ or Microsoft Edge.

Geek Culture / [LOCKED] Expect to be treated with no respect

Author
Message
Aoneweb
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Sep 2002
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Posted: 27th Jun 2004 21:55
Link
Dear TGC
As you run the web site where I made all of my purchases I am addressing this to you, I have been a committed customer to all your products for a few years now, purchasing Dark Basic Pro and Classic, Cartography shop and Texture maker, I have been insulted on your forum by your moderators and ignored by the author of cshop when requesting a bug fix for my problem.
I have been asking for an update for Cshop 4 on the forum and have been told that the bug in question will be repaired in version 5, which has to be paid for, but all I am asking is for an update.
This product has been updated in versions in as many years, and all bugs reported have been met with the response that it will be fixed in the next version, I find this unacceptable.
The response from Josh Klint was to have all my threads on the subject removed and to have the moderators call me a spammer.
Is this the way to conduct business, when a customer has a complaint just ignore him/her and hide his complaints so no other potential customers can see them?
I am very disappointed in this kind of action and will not part with a single penny more on any product on this site, in fact I will do my best to inform the public of the kind of support they can expect from TGC and Josh Klint when parting with money, I will start by contacting as many magazines that have reviewed the product to inform them of the treatment I met on the forum when I complained as a paying customer.
I can only thank myself for taking a screen shot of the spammer insult before it was wiped.
John O’Shea

Toshiba Sattelite, 2GHz,Nvidia GeForce4 420go, Windows XP Home. www.aoneweb.com
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
OSX Using Happy Dude
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Aug 2003
Location: At home
Posted: 27th Jun 2004 22:10 Edited at: 27th Jun 2004 22:13
Link
Quote: "This product has been updated in versions in as many years, and all bugs reported have been met with the response that it will be fixed in the next version, I find this unacceptable."

Whether the author develops patches or not is up to him - whether you find it unacceptable or not is irrelevant. Josh has said your 'problem' is minor blemish.


The place for great plug-ins and things.
There's the right way, the wrong way and the TCA way...
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Guhill The friendly one
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 12th Jun 2004
Location: The fourth demension
Posted: 27th Jun 2004 22:13
Link
Personally, I feel sorry for the brutha.

I know now, without a doubt, that Kingdom Hearts... IS LIGHT (Sora)
Back to top
Profile PM Website
David T
Retired Moderator
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Aug 2002
Location: England
Posted: 27th Jun 2004 22:48
Link
Quote: "I have been insulted on your forum by your moderators "


I'm afraid the moderators around here tend to err on the relaxed side. IMO it's better than some draconian forum regimes one can find on the net.

Quote: "ignored by the author of cshop when requesting a bug fix for my problem."


Your problem. I'm afraid that with Josh is rewriting CS completely for version 5 he probably doesn't have the time to fix and release a whole new update for one person's problem.

The response from Josh Klint was to have all my threads on the subject removed and to have the moderators call me a spammer.

Okay, this may seem kind of harsh. How many threads did you post on the subject? One usually suffices.

Quote: "I am very disappointed in this kind of action and will not part with a single penny more on any product on this site, in fact I will do my best to inform the public of the kind of support they can expect from TGC and Josh Klint when parting with money, I will start by contacting as many magazines that have reviewed the product to inform them of the treatment I met on the forum when I complained as a paying customer.

You have to understand that TGC and Josh are running businesses and are dealing with hundreds of queries a week. They don't exist to help solely you."


If you post on the forum in a polite way and don't take the I-know-my-rights-I'm-a-loyal-customer-you-know attitude you can get some polite responses.

On teh other hand, if you take a pompous attitude to things then you can expect to be greeted very coldly.

Cheers,
David

Get 15 new commands, all the date / time commands left out of DBPro for free!
DBPTIME plugin available here:
http://www.davidtattersall.me.uk/ and select "DarkBasic"
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Richard Davey
Retired Moderator
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 30th Apr 2002
Location: On the Jupiter Probe
Posted: 27th Jun 2004 23:10
Link
This issue with CS4 (whatever it may be) is the first we've heard of it. Did you try actually requesting support via the support system we have in place? (which does NOT include the forums - a support request being noticed on the forums is pot luck at best.)

Josh moderates the CS forum himself btw and it is his decision as to what stays or not on that board. Not that I'm advocating you should have been insulted by someone, but the majority of moderators are not TGC staff (Josh included) and you agree to this fact in our AUP with every single post you make.

If you want a refund for the software then feel free to request one. No software should be bought on what it might be able to do at some point in the future however, if this issue is so severe it stops you being able to use it correctly then we will refund you without question, if asked to do so via our support system (personal preferences aside).

Cheers,

Rich

"I am not young enough to know everything."
- Oscar Wilde
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Jeku
Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Jul 2003
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 28th Jun 2004 01:06
Link
Quote: " Let me guess, you're 10 years old and are making a MMORPG, right?"


Manticore --- This is not helping in any way. I understand Aoneweb's feelings when he feels he's not getting what he paid for (this has happened to me with a product from a different company). Try to be respectful.

Back to top
Profile PM Website
Phaelax
DBPro Master
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 16th Apr 2003
Location: Metropia
Posted: 28th Jun 2004 03:26
Link
What are the problems with dbp that prevent you from using it the way you want?

"eureka" - Archimedes
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
David T
Retired Moderator
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Aug 2002
Location: England
Posted: 30th Jun 2004 05:01
Link
Quote: "you agree to this fact in our AUP with every single post you make"


Clever one, that

Get 15 new commands, all the date / time commands left out of DBPro for free!
DBPTIME plugin available here:
http://www.davidtattersall.me.uk/ and select "DarkBasic"
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Rob K
Retired Moderator
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Sep 2002
Location: Surrey, United Kingdom
Posted: 30th Jun 2004 05:30
Link
Deleted a few posts from this thread as they were pointlessly insulting towards the thread author.

The Aoneweb's feelings are perfectly understandable. To be honest I don't agree with charging for bug fixes in any way, and I expect TGC will be happy to patch the bug regardless of its significance before version 5.

Cart Shop was quite unstable in its earlier incarnation (v3), and v4 had a lot of issues as well so it doesn't surprise me.


BlueGUI:Windows UI Plugin - All the power of the windows interface in your DBPro games.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Lost in Thought
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Feb 2004
Location: U.S.A. : Douglas, Georgia
Posted: 30th Jun 2004 06:18
Link
His problem is everytime you use hollow the screen minimizes and you have to re-maximize it. I got around this bug very easily. Method: I don't use hollow or carve. The reason is: I like to build manually to have more control over the polys created. When I hollow something I usually have to go back and re-edit what it done to make it as neat as possible anyway and its really not that time consuming or hard to build without hollw or carve. In my opinion anyways. And how much is upgrading to 5.0 going to cost anyway? If its too much you can count me out I like cartography shop pretty good like it is. To each his own I guess.

Back to top
Profile PM Email
Rob K
Retired Moderator
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Sep 2002
Location: Surrey, United Kingdom
Posted: 30th Jun 2004 06:48
Link
That is a serious bug, you can't expect him to pay for an upgrade to fix it really. Hollow & Carve are very important features if they suit your way of working.


BlueGUI:Windows UI Plugin - All the power of the windows interface in your DBPro games.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
David T
Retired Moderator
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Aug 2002
Location: England
Posted: 30th Jun 2004 06:55
Link
Josh is a great deal way through a total rewrite, which in turn fixes this bug. I think it's better that he releases the new version, rather than spend the hassle to release a whole new update for one bug.

Get 15 new commands, all the date / time commands left out of DBPro for free!
DBPTIME plugin available here:
http://www.davidtattersall.me.uk/ and select "DarkBasic"
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Lost in Thought
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Feb 2004
Location: U.S.A. : Douglas, Georgia
Posted: 30th Jun 2004 07:00
Link
Yeah I guess it would be bad If I had started off using Hollow. Thats why I said "To each his own" I'll bet that is an easy bug to fix too. Although there is one other bug that causes my movement speed to increase so quickly I cannot control where I'm going in free flight mode. But all I have to do is save my work and reload CSHOP and its fixed for another couple of weeks That one would probably be harder to track down.

Back to top
Profile PM Email
Richard Davey
Retired Moderator
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 30th Apr 2002
Location: On the Jupiter Probe
Posted: 30th Jun 2004 08:50
Link
"To be honest I don't agree with charging for bug fixes in any way, and I expect TGC will be happy to patch the bug regardless of its significance before version 5."

Nothing to do with us, we just re-sell Cartography Shop, we don't write it. If Josh wants to ignore this problem that is his choice (and his downfall re: perception of his product). All we can do is refund, it's the same for any 3rd party title.

"I am not young enough to know everything."
- Oscar Wilde
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
IanM
Retired Moderator
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 11th Sep 2002
Location: In my moon base
Posted: 30th Jun 2004 16:33
Link
I was the mod who posted the message to you - I was contacted by email by a forum member who asked me to look into it.

You had made multiple posts to several threads (half of which were off-topic) saying effectively the same thing over and over. In my book, that's spam.

The message I posted was to the effect of 'Yes, you have a problem. Please don't take it out on the rest of the forum by spamming'. I was supporting the forum, not CShop. I had nothing to do with the deletion of your posts/threads.

If you find that insulting, them I'm afraid that's an issue you'll need to work out yourself.

*** Coming soon - Network Plug-in - Check my site for info ***
For free Plug-ins, source and the Interface library for Visual C++ 6, .NET and now for Dev-C++ http://www.matrix1.demon.co.uk
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Rob K
Retired Moderator
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Sep 2002
Location: Surrey, United Kingdom
Posted: 30th Jun 2004 16:55
Link
Quote: "Nothing to do with us, we just re-sell Cartography Shop, we don't write it. If Josh wants to ignore this problem that is his choice (and his downfall re: perception of his product). All we can do is refund, it's the same for any 3rd party title."


Sorry Rich, I meant Josh/Leadwerks not TGC.


BlueGUI:Windows UI Plugin - All the power of the windows interface in your DBPro games.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Aoneweb
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Sep 2002
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Posted: 1st Jul 2004 14:02
Link
I have been accused of spamming this forum, but I must say my actions were pure frustration, my initial post and then subsequent post were completely ignored and after a while I wanted to bring attention to my problem and maybe force a reply, I ended up with my posts (all of them, incl the original) being removed by josh, it would seem that any negative comments regarding his software will meet the same fate.

I don’t know about you guys, but if I went to a car dealer and purchased a new car and the sales guy told me that I only get three wheel nuts per wheel, the car can be used as normal but when the new modal comes out next year it will have all the wheel nuts and he will be glad to sell it to me, I would find another car dealer.

Thanks to all that can see my point, and thanks to TGC for not charging for the Dbpro upgrades and patches.

John O’Shea

Toshiba Sattelite, 2GHz,Nvidia GeForce4 420go, Windows XP Home. www.aoneweb.com
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Ian T
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 12th Sep 2002
Location: Around
Posted: 2nd Jul 2004 02:55 Edited at: 2nd Jul 2004 02:56
Link
I don't think it's good policy either, but as Rich has said, it's not in TGC's hands, they're just reselling the product... I understand your frustration and personally, if I used Cshop, I'd probaly be pretty ticked off too. TGC has never charged for crucial bug fixes, one of the reasons I like them so much... I also feel a kinship/sympathy for indie application developers, particularly ones TGC resells, but your point is quite valid so I'm not sure what to think .


The new developer network updates and beta downloads kick ass.
Back to top
Profile PM
Peter H
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th Feb 2004
Location: Witness Protection Program
Posted: 2nd Jul 2004 04:22
Link
Quote: "I will do my best to inform the public of the kind of support they can expect from TGC and Josh Klint when parting with money"

as mouse has said it is not TGC's fualt so there is no reason to get mad at them...


Formerly known as "DarkWing Duck"
Back to top
Profile PM Email
David T
Retired Moderator
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Aug 2002
Location: England
Posted: 2nd Jul 2004 04:29
Link
Quote: "I have been accused of spamming this forum,"


Rightly so

Quote: " but I must say my actions were pure frustration, my initial post and then subsequent post were completely ignored and after a while I wanted to bring attention to my problem and maybe force a reply, I ended up with my posts (all of them, incl the original) being removed by josh, it would seem that any negative comments regarding his software will meet the same fate."


For whatever reason, posting multiple times is inconsiderate and very annoying. That's why the posts were deleted. I have no doubt that all the topics started by you were deleted, it would probably take too long to view each and decide whether or not it should be kept.

Your car analogy is flawed. Releasing a whole new version of software is not like buying a screw. It takes time and effort. I fully understand Josh's decision, for all we know there is no way to solve the problem and that's just the way the program works - I imagine that could be the case - and if so then that's why the program is being rewritten.

Get 15 new commands, all the date / time commands left out of DBPro for free!
DBPTIME plugin available here:
http://www.davidtattersall.me.uk/ and select "DarkBasic"
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Aoneweb
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Sep 2002
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Posted: 2nd Jul 2004 11:21
Link
If the fault cant be fixed then say so, dont ignore my post, if the software has to be rewriten then offer it for free or at least a big discont to the people who payed for the buggy version.
Did any of you get upset with Windows ME, how dere Microsoft sell a program to the public full of bugs.

Toshiba Sattelite, 2GHz,Nvidia GeForce4 420go, Windows XP Home. www.aoneweb.com
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
indi
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: Earth, Brisbane, Australia
Posted: 2nd Jul 2004 11:42 Edited at: 2nd Jul 2004 11:43
Link
your current forum actions are not really helping your plight, its more like your on some slander glitch, if you want it fixed address the problem clearly and objectively. If it was missed the first time then just re issue another email with the problem at hand and possibly an example of the problem at hand.

Anything else doesnt help you resolve the problem. There are also channels other than the public forum setup for you to have issues organised. Going public without a clear objective and slander of a product shows your intentions and motives to be other than having the problem resolved.

motive, emotion, objective, make sure you are clear in what you want as the final result. getting cranky, upset or diminuative doesnt help you or the author.

as for respect, you earn that with friendship and communication and touch of patience.

If no-one gives your an answer to a question you have asked, consider:- Is your question clear.- Did you ask nicely.- Are you showing any effort to solve the problem yourself
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Aoneweb
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Sep 2002
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Posted: 2nd Jul 2004 12:32 Edited at: 2nd Jul 2004 12:42
Link
I have written to TGC about this problem, its become a moral issue, one that was started with the absence of a response from Josh Klint, one that had Dreamora and myself asking what happened to the promise of a bug fix, and I for one feel when told of support by an author who has no intention of giving it but hiding behind this forum, a stance to protect the next innocent buyer must be taken if all else fails.
I have no problem with other products on this site to which I am the owner of several but this site and forum is owned by TGC and it would now appear that its the only place to purchase the product, of which a commition is received by TGC, the product is promoted by TGC so some responsibility must be taken by TGC,if the author refuses to answer your questions, where else can you go.
Below is the email sent to me by TGC and many thanks for the response, Josh has not taken the time to write other than a smarmy post on the cshop forum.
I have started a new web site of resent weeks and had all intentions of promoting the products on this site, it has to be said that my infusionism has died and I will concentrate on the other products listed there and to be listed there in the future.
[/href]www.aoneweb.com[/href].
This will be my last post on this site, I will not be visiting this site after this weekend, and hope Josh will do the descent thing and fix the product that he has sold sometimes to young people that had to save up to buy.
THE TGC EMAIL:
Hi Joh,

The following is a reply to your enquiry:

I'm sorry you have been treated in this way. We re-sell Cshop and therefore cannot really direct how it is updated by the author. I will certainly ask Josh about this but from what you say it seems he has made up his mind.

All I ask is you do not judge the rest of our products based on this one experience. We are dedicated to bringing our customers great products for game making.

Regards,

Rick Vanner

P.S by the way Rick its John
Best regards......

Toshiba Sattelite, 2GHz,Nvidia GeForce4 420go, Windows XP Home. www.aoneweb.com
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
HZence
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Mar 2003
Location:
Posted: 2nd Jul 2004 12:45
Link
Get over it. If you don't like CShop, just get a different product! Geez this guys is on a freakin' hate spree or somethin'....


Team EOD :: Programmer/Storyboard Assistant
Back to top
Profile PM
Shadow Robert
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Sep 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 2nd Jul 2004 12:52
Link
Quote: "Did any of you get upset with Windows ME, how dere Microsoft sell a program to the public full of bugs."


Can't say that I did. Infact I found/find Windows ME to be fast, reliable and stable...
If it could run Maya, I would still be using it as my primay OS today.

I still don't understand why everyone mouths off about ME, because in my experience it has run perfectly on the machines I installed it onto. I never had any problems, my folks never had any problems, my friends never had any problems.

I can't say the same for the rest of the Windows 32bit Series.
95 was unstable, until release C.
98 Crashed on me 12x during installation so I took it back.
NT 3.51 Killed my FAT32 Partitions with some glee often, and was uninstallable (I still can't get it off an old Maxtor 1GB)
NT 4, lived upto it's name; and crashed on me around 4x a day.
NT 2000 was more grand in how it performed, as it randomly rebooted due to hardware conflicts. (something that plagued XP-Home even more)
XP-Professional is currently incompatible with my Audio Hardware's Surround Sound, and has a strange problem with my Geforce since reinstalling ... which is even more odd when the Microsoft drivers seem to work (but very very slowely) yet the NVIDIA ones don't.

For a long while I thought XP-Pro might actually put itself as stable, but recent driver releases start up old conflict problems. Most of these stem very closely to those systems I have which have Via Mobos.

People also tell me that SiS Mobo's are poor, but again I've not had as many problems with them as with my Via ones.
Tell ya the most stable combination i've had to date:

Pentium2-300MHz Mmx (AL440Lx) / 512MB 133MHz CLK2 Ram / Maxtor Diamond 40GB HDD / Geforce 4 Ti 4800 / Philips CDRW1600+ / Windows ME

most stable system I've ever had. never crashed even once one me.

Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
MikeS
Retired Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd Dec 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 2nd Jul 2004 13:03
Link
ME worked fine for me as well, but that was really before I got into using 3D programs or programming.

Even to this day though, XP handles perfectly on my system with every program I run. Haven't had to return 1 program or delete one piece of software because of Windows XP.



A book? I hate book. Book is stupid.
(Formerly known as Yellow)
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Pincho Paxton
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Dec 2002
Location:
Posted: 2nd Jul 2004 21:45
Link
I have windows ME and Windows XP, but I use Windows ME because it is immune to most of the new Viruses.

Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Peter H
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th Feb 2004
Location: Witness Protection Program
Posted: 2nd Jul 2004 23:46
Link
XP has worked perfectly for me also, except for the above mentioned viruses


Formerly known as "DarkWing Duck"
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Ian T
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 12th Sep 2002
Location: Around
Posted: 3rd Jul 2004 01:02
Link
ME was certainly craptastic, but there's no way CShop is that bad. Once I launched CShop and left the computer for a few hours... ME could never stay running that long !


The new developer network updates and beta downloads kick ass.
Back to top
Profile PM
Andy Igoe
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 6th Oct 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 3rd Jul 2004 01:16
Link
I have had terminal problems with Cartography Shop and compatabilities and was also duly ignored on the CS forums. I no longer use the product (not actually out of choice, it doesnt work) and no longer ever recommend or condone it's use.


Which is the biggest tool? The computer, or the muppet who invented it?
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Drew Cameron
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 30th Jan 2004
Location: Scotland
Posted: 3rd Jul 2004 01:16
Link
@Aoneweb
Stop feeling sorry for yourself and learn to deal with the bug.
DBC has hundreds of bugs, you don't hear anyone here complaining because Richard won't rewrite it and give it to us for for free do you?

You have plenty of reasonable options - get a refund, buy a newer version (albeit - you still have to pay for it) or use other methods that don't involve hollow or carve.

I doubt your "evidence" will be of much interest to magazines either...


http://www.ddrw.dbspot.com/new
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Pincho Paxton
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Dec 2002
Location:
Posted: 3rd Jul 2004 01:22
Link
DBC doesn't have hundreds of bugs. It has hardly any.

Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
HZence
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Mar 2003
Location:
Posted: 3rd Jul 2004 01:37
Link
Quote: "DBC has hundreds of bugs, you don't hear anyone here complaining because Richard won't rewrite it and give it to us for for free do you?"


Rich wouldn't do it anyway, it'd be Lee


Team EOD :: Programmer/Storyboard Assistant
Back to top
Profile PM
David T
Retired Moderator
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Aug 2002
Location: England
Posted: 3rd Jul 2004 01:58
Link
Quote: "If the fault cant be fixed then say so, dont ignore my post, if the software has to be rewriten then offer it for free or at least a big discont to the people who payed for the buggy version."


I would be very surprised if there won't be a reduced-price upgrade version.

And re: people ignoring your posts. Ever thought why? Taking the "I'm right, you're wrong, your software is rubbish, I know my rights" approach you're going to get nothing but disrespect.

If you act in the aforementioned manner then people are just not going to bother to reply to you, it's simply not worth it.

And before you say, I'm replying to this because I'm waiting for something to install.

Quote: "Did any of you get upset with Windows ME, how dere Microsoft sell a program to the public full of bugs."


1) Dare.

2) You might as well email MS on the subject. You obviously seem to know what you're talking about.

Cheers

Get 15 new commands, all the date / time commands left out of DBPro for free!
DOWNLOAD PLUGINS HERE: http://www.davidtattersall.me.uk/ and select "DarkBasic"
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Jeku
Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Jul 2003
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 3rd Jul 2004 02:10
Link
Quote: "Infact I found/find Windows ME to be fast, reliable and stable..."


You must be living in an alternate dimension :-P

Windows ME is notoriour for not releasing RAM once it's been used. If you were to, say, run a proggie like PhotoShop, exit, and reload it, the original RAM doesn't get released! After your RAM is used up you get that blue screen of death.

Like you, I've been using all the Windows versions from 3.0 to now, and I must say that XP is by far the most stable. As long as you keep up with updates and don't use IE, there's no problems I've found with virus' or spyware.

--------------------------------------------

Everybody else, you should really stop egging on the author of this thread and just let him be. I'm just generalizing here, but based on the ages of most of the forum peoples here, I'm sure many of you didn't have to actually work hard and pay for said software. Believe me from experience if you have to work at Wendy's for 12.5 hours to buy a product and it doesn't do what's advertised properly, you have the right to get royally pissed. You also have the right to post your problems on the product's forums.

Back to top
Profile PM Website
Ian T
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 12th Sep 2002
Location: Around
Posted: 3rd Jul 2004 03:27
Link
Makes me remember... back when I used ME, I had a RAM manager and I'd have to run a complete check every time I'd finished using an application, and before I ran a game, because, as you said, it wasn't released. I had 384mb and, before I got that system manager, BSODs from running out of memory were inevitable after one hour or so of use.


The new developer network updates and beta downloads kick ass.
Back to top
Profile PM
Shadow Robert
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Sep 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 3rd Jul 2004 04:07
Link
Quote: "Windows ME is notoriour for not releasing RAM once it's been used. If you were to, say, run a proggie like PhotoShop, exit, and reload it, the original RAM doesn't get released! After your RAM is used up you get that blue screen of death."


Actually the Dynamic Allocator worked fine, the only problem was most people expected it to work instantly.
It would only do a sweep once every 30minutes, as Millennium Edition was ment as a 'Home' Edition not for Professional software.

There were a number of cases where it would instantly release Ram allocated, like when using games. Applications used MFC/WinAPI and as such Windows detected this and assumed they were Windows Operations and kept them in the ram. This is also why it was so damn fast.

XP still actually has this for Internet Explorer, only it doesn't check if the cache is going to overflow so you use IE to intensively within a short period and it'll stop current operations until the Cache clears.

-- -- --

However my original point, is that what 90% of people claim to be bugs are actually features of a given system. Just because it doesn't work how you expect it to, doesn't mean it isn't working how it was designed to.

Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Ian T
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 12th Sep 2002
Location: Around
Posted: 3rd Jul 2004 04:54
Link
Quote: "Actually the Dynamic Allocator worked fine, the only problem was most people expected it to work instantly.
It would only do a sweep once every 30minutes, as Millennium Edition was ment as a 'Home' Edition not for Professional software.

There were a number of cases where it would instantly release Ram allocated, like when using games. Applications used MFC/WinAPI and as such Windows detected this and assumed they were Windows Operations and kept them in the ram. This is also why it was so damn fast."


Sometimes, and other times it wouldn't clean out the 'trace' RAM when it did do a sweep. And furthermore, it doesn't matter if it's a feature or not; ME is universally hated for being unstable, without even pushing it very far-- my little siser constantly crashed it just trying to use MSPaint and Kid Pix!-- that's bad design, period.

Quote: "However my original point, is that what 90% of people claim to be bugs are actually features of a given system. Just because it doesn't work how you expect it to, doesn't mean it isn't working how it was designed to."


And just because it works like it was designed to doesn't mean the design was good or, hell, even mediocre in quality. In the case of Windows ME, it's awful design.


The new developer network updates and beta downloads kick ass.
Back to top
Profile PM
Shadow Robert
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Sep 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 3rd Jul 2004 05:13
Link
Quote: "Sometimes, and other times it wouldn't clean out the 'trace' RAM when it did do a sweep. And furthermore, it doesn't matter if it's a feature or not; ME is universally hated for being unstable, without even pushing it very far-- my little siser constantly crashed it just trying to use MSPaint and Kid Pix!-- that's bad design, period."


I take it you've not been reading this thread at all.
Windows ME might be classed as Microsoft's biggest joke, but aside from you I can't see anyone else saying they hate it. Infact the general feeling seems to be quite the opposite.

Quote: "And just because it works like it was designed to doesn't mean the design was good or, hell, even mediocre in quality. In the case of Windows ME, it's awful design"


Quit ragging on Millennium Edition and crawl back under the rock you recently crawled out from.

Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Ian T
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 12th Sep 2002
Location: Around
Posted: 3rd Jul 2004 05:32
Link
Having been told to crawl back under a rock by the pillar of the community, I clearly have no choice whatsoever but to oblige his sublime supremeness' wishes and do so forthwith. It is, after all, only fit punishment for daring to 'rag on' about the exalted Windows ME.


The new developer network updates and beta downloads kick ass.
Back to top
Profile PM
the_winch
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 1st Feb 2003
Location: Oxford, UK
Posted: 3rd Jul 2004 05:46
Link
Win Me is nothing but trouble in my experiance, you are better off with Win98. Uses less hard disk space, less ram, is faster and has a lot less driver issues.

can i scream
Back to top
Profile PM Website
Ian T
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 12th Sep 2002
Location: Around
Posted: 3rd Jul 2004 05:48
Link
98 on its first release was pretty bad, but 98 SE is fairly stable (by win 9x standards) and as you said sucks up a lot less RAM and puts less strain on your CPU... and it can run old games without any problems . I still use it.

Never even consider it for a machine which would have to be secure of course


The new developer network updates and beta downloads kick ass.
Back to top
Profile PM
Jeku
Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Jul 2003
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 3rd Jul 2004 06:26 Edited at: 3rd Jul 2004 06:28
Link
Quote: "Windows ME might be classed as Microsoft's biggest joke, but aside from you I can't see anyone else saying they hate it. Infact the general feeling seems to be quite the opposite."


Wow, maybe it depends on what side of the world you live, because I have yet to meet even *one* person that doesn't hate ME. If I were to meet you in real life then you'd be the only one!

Case in point:
When I built my ex's computer back in 2000 before Win 2k actually came out, I installed ME on there because it was new. Less than a year later she forced me to replace it with Win 2k. This was a girl who does nothing but use MS Word, Solitaire, and rarely WinAmp. She doesn't even surf the net, yet she was plagued by the BSODs over and over.

EDIT:
And before you say that it might have been faulty RAM, I did check that. I used to build and repair computers for a living and I tested the motherboard, RAM, video, and everything else hardware related that could cause BSODs. Once I stuck Win2k on there, it was like a dream.

Back to top
Profile PM Website
Pincho Paxton
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Dec 2002
Location:
Posted: 3rd Jul 2004 06:39
Link
Windows ME has several patches, and the patches make it stable. Most of you are talking about an unpatched Windows ME, and without the patches ME is really bad. The patched version is better than XP due to the new viruses.

Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Shadow Robert
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Sep 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 3rd Jul 2004 06:43 Edited at: 3rd Jul 2004 06:46
Link
Quote: "Case in point:
When I built my ex's computer back in 2000 before Win 2k actually came out, I installed ME on there because it was new. Less than a year later she forced me to replace it with Win 2k. This was a girl who does nothing but use MS Word, Solitaire, and rarely WinAmp. She doesn't even surf the net, yet she was plagued by the BSODs over and over.

EDIT:
And before you say that it might have been faulty RAM, I did check that. I used to build and repair computers for a living and I tested the motherboard, RAM, video, and everything else hardware related that could cause BSODs. Once I stuck Win2k on there, it was like a dream."


Case and point, I installed Windows Me on over 50machines without a single complaint in 2years.

I would say this has more to do with people a) not knowing what they're doing and b) putting it on hardware without testing comptibility first, if there is a conflict you have to manually sort the problem out (again i'd attrib that to people not knowing what they're doing).

In general Windows ME installed and ran fine on Intel Machines, when you got into AMD w/AGP ports you started having problems. Mainly because AMD<->AGP was bugged (MUP.sys) still is.

[edit-] there is that too Pincho
I always setup systems to auto-download patches silently, the whole point in the auto-update system was to fixx the system problem.
But people even today refuse to update for the most stupid of reasons, just ask how many people around here have XP with problems and how many of them still are running without SP1.

Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
IanM
Retired Moderator
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 11th Sep 2002
Location: In my moon base
Posted: 3rd Jul 2004 10:09
Link
Wow! Amazing!

You all have different experiences with a Microsoft Operating system.

Welcome to the real world

Now lets cut this discussion short, seeing as it's gone totally off-topic

*** Coming soon - Network Plug-in - Check my site for info ***
For free Plug-ins, source and the Interface library for Visual C++ 6, .NET and now for Dev-C++ http://www.matrix1.demon.co.uk
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Back to top

Login to post a reply

Server time is: 2024-11-11 11:22:25
Your offset time is: 2024-11-11 11:22:25