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Geek Culture / Classic Basic Programming

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 9th Jul 2004 01:22
About 20years ago, a battle was being raged over the UK... not that disimilar to the one raged currently between Nintendo, Microsoft and Sony.

Difference were the players were Acorn, Sinclair and Amstrad; Thier platforms all ran at blistering 2MHz with 64KB RAM... boasting upto 16 Colours onscreen at once, these were the system that literally paved the way for what we currently use today.
Before the Acorn Electron (Late 1983) it was only those computer literate or schools that had a state of the art BBC Micro, a computer which until 1990 really was considered the education computer for schools.

What the Acorn brought was basically a BBC Micro, cut down in features and cost (was half the price of the Micro). For the first time the British public were given the chance to see what a computer was useful for past silly computer games...
The Acorn also brought something else to the home market, and really the entire reason any of us are currently here.

BBC BASIC; The Original BASIC Language. Before the Release of the BBC in 1981, there was no such thing as BASIC Language. Even after release it really wasn't known what it was exactly.

The Acorn unfortunately although a good machine was in so much demand over the Christmas period of '83 that Acorn failed to keep up with demand, a demand which Amstrad were very happy to fill very soon after... boasting thier built-in tape deck, full size keyboard and dedicated monitor. As such the Electron suffered a pretty bad defeat which Acorn wouldn't really recover from. (Although the Atom was quite nice, failed to impress the public)

Oki so now we have a short history lesson, now what?
Well the recent talk of Retro Games really had me thinking back to the days of yaw. The Acorn came out of storage and is currently pluged into my TV with the:

Acorn Electon é
>

showing on the screen, just waiting for the command input.
I have missed the old basics, the basics that were just as they said on the tin; a Basic language not just a Basic syntax.

As such I've been drawing up a design for a compiler + cli-style ide; Based on the Electron/BBC BASIC.
Now the idea is to really more reproduce than simply base it on the orignial; believe it or not this is alot easier considering that the 6052 (Acorn/BBC-M Processor) direct decentant is the good ol' 80286 Processor. (to the point actually where it is possible to swap them and watch games fly at 8MHz hehee)

Well anyways, today I start actually programming it. Unsure how long this is going to take me, although it doesn't have thousands of functions it has far more depth than I originally remembered.
Infact it even has some features that not even DBP has.

Now there are a few things I'll need peoples opinions on.
-> Timer Loop, what do you think is the best way to go around it?
Currently my thought is an automatic speed adjuster. But I could just as easily add a timer and let the users deal with the loop speed, or maybe add an Update keyword so you tell the processor to run the memory stored code.

-> HID Support, Acorn BASIC didn't have them; but the Amstrad did. Should they be included? (Joysticks/Mice)

-> MultiLanguage Support, I want to add this, but to be honest no idea how to go about it... as i'd have to hard code the characters used which could be a chore. (especially as English is nice being it only has 26 letters)
Let me know your thoughts on this, I think if I did add such support I'd only really need Russian and Japanese to begin with; expand with Korean/Chinese later.

-> Sound Blaster Support, I am seriously thinking of adding this as an option turn/off. You'll still have the exact same sound controls, they'll just come out of a different speaker hehee.
Main reason i'm thinknig of adding it is cause my PC Speaker is bust ^_^

anything else you can think of which would be a modern day issue that wasn't back then let me know.

something I am adding is a basic file exporter. it will *NOT* access the Windows partition, so you can't simply use it as a CLI to browse your HDD, it'll only be able to access a protected disk area.
This is to also make 100% sure I have no windows dependancy, as it'll be released for Linux as well.

Oki before i cover the syntax i'll give you guys some time.
What I'd like to see is if any off you have old games, remember the BBC Syntax and wanna have a go at coding something to show or whatever... then please feel free to contribute.
The more examples I can get my hands on, the better I can sort out the compiler looking for bugs before I release it.

For those who wanna have a go I'll post up the syntax around 6pm after i've watched Kim Possible and started the exe headers and such.

Anyone expecting 3D... don't cause your not going to get it unless you program it yourself (that is the whole point in going back to our roots hehee)

Ian T
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Posted: 9th Jul 2004 02:25
What exactly is the point of rebuilding an antiquated BASIC language? It simply wouldn't be capable of doing the things modern languages can, and it wouldn't be any easier to use either.


Shooting for Eternium Man.
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 9th Jul 2004 04:38
Quote: "It simply wouldn't be capable of doing the things modern languages can, and it wouldn't be any easier to use either."


If you read the original post, I did mention that ppl like you wouldn't understand.

Manual

Oki the manual is gonna keep growing, the IRC crows are hogging *all* of my time hehee ^_^
so erm yeah there isn't alot there ... yet lol

don't worry i'll cover the entire language

empty
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Posted: 9th Jul 2004 04:48 Edited at: 9th Jul 2004 04:52
Ah, another Raven release.

Quote: "BBC BASIC; The Original BASIC Language. Before the Release of the BBC in 1981, there was no such thing as BASIC Language."

Erm, what?

Quote: "considering that the 6052 (Acorn/BBC-M Processor) direct decentant is the good ol' 80286 Processor."

Erm, what??

Play Nice! Play Basic!
Mentor
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Posted: 9th Jul 2004 05:26
I wonder what it was they invented at Dartmouth?? , and that Commodore PET I owned, and the ZX80, Vic20 etc all preceded the BBC micro, and I swear I was using BASIC to code for them, ummm White Lightening on the Speccy LOL, there was a mans compiler , ah good old days when the 8x8 charsets hid my lack of artistic talent

Mentor.

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Ian T
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Posted: 9th Jul 2004 05:30
I might spend time being offended, but this is actually a good thing, seeing as it's 1) Another vaporware for Raven and 2) more Raven hardware nonsense.

But I'll leave the thread and pipe dream alike for now. We'll just have to see how this one ends later...


Shooting for Eternium Man.
CattleRustler
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Posted: 9th Jul 2004 05:32
heh.


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Neophyte
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Posted: 9th Jul 2004 05:32
@Raven

"This is to also make 100% sure I have no windows dependancy, as it'll be released for Linux as well."

Good luck achieveing that. Its harder than it sounds.

FYI, I also happen to be making a BASIC compiler. Albiet, I'm doing it for a language that is already around, Basic4GL.

If you are wondering how long this is going to take you I can assure you that you won't be able to complete it anytime soon. Writing a compiler for even a simple language is not that easy. Its not that hard either, but it requires a lot of work.

Just thought I'd give you the 'heads up' on that.
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 9th Jul 2004 06:21
Neo, i know the language is going to be pretty lengthy; but hope with some help I can make it true to the original but with updates that people feel would be suited for modern systems.

I had a simple PureBASIC Interpreter working Sunday, it converted instructions to ASM realtime; only did a few of the commands like the basic syntax + dot and input. But the framework was solid enough for 8hrs work total.

Right now i've decided to do this exclusively in NASM; although I could save alot of time and effort using C + ASM, it would also mean I'd loose control over certain aspects.
Found that I can get much faster and more accurate results hard coding alot of thing::

What is sad is I ask for help with this and out of 6 Replies only one person is trying to be helpful; the rest are just flames.
Kinda pisses me off all the damn time.

CattleRustler
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Posted: 9th Jul 2004 06:24
"heh" was not a flame, was it?


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DeepBlue
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Posted: 9th Jul 2004 06:25 Edited at: 9th Jul 2004 06:33
OK my speccy is up to the challenge & it wants a fight.

Your Electron with its punny Mostek 6502A processor running at 2Mhz with its Zilog Z80A running at 3.54Mhz

Think we all thought our 1st computer was the best..maybe we were right?

[edit] OK I'll add something constructive I found these pages very useful if your doing a compiler [edit]

http://www.crenshaw.books.myprojects.kostigoff.net/

The coder formerly known as Twynklet.
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 9th Jul 2004 06:39
Cheers that should help... (and you know my Electron can run rings around you speccy; but only in B&W mode, but then we all know that is the truely manly way to make games )

You know what Acorn BASIC has that DBP doesn't?
Memory Area Grabbing, Direct Memory Access, Direct Drawing Mode Access, Inline Assembly, Inherited Procedures, 40bit Floats, Direct Character Mapping, etc...

Perhaps you can't data types and objects, but really with a language as sweet as sugar to begin with; why throw in a lemon hehee

DeepBlue
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Posted: 9th Jul 2004 07:07 Edited at: 9th Jul 2004 07:15
Gotta say the best version I've ever used was ASIC 5.00 DOS/Console based for the PC. Has it's own IDE & memory, direct register & comm port control. It was BASIC nervana when I found it, I even wrote a comercial app in it.

Hmm Look at these commands



Its shareware & still available for download if anyone is interested it can be got from

http://shareware.pcmag.com/product.php%5Bid%5D40479%5Bcid%5D19%5BSiteID%5Dpcmag

The guy who wrote that deserves a very large medal.

Oh nearly forgot it even has pointers & assembly & the ability to call entire assembley sub routines..omg can we go back to DOS plz forgot how good this was

[Edit] Oh and its a compiler not an Interpreter [Edit]

The coder formerly known as Twynklet.
Chris K
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Posted: 9th Jul 2004 07:12
Quote: "these were the systems that literally paved the way for what we currently use today."


There is nothing that annoys me more than when people say 'literally' for no reason.

They literally paved the way? What, they actually put down paving slabs?

You the man, Raven.
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 9th Jul 2004 07:29
paving is just to make a path to something... so in a literary sense it was paving the way.
That said i do remember a stunt where the Electron was stood on and broken by a competitor as part of an ad campaign lol so you could take it physically literally.

Twyk i'll take a look at the compile, it does look damn temping with what it has; but have a determination to make this hehee

Kevin Picone
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Posted: 9th Jul 2004 07:32 Edited at: 9th Jul 2004 07:36
First,

You mean BBC model B right ?

http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c=29

Second,

So what just happened to the previous basic language your were writing ?.. Moreover, and more recently that IDE/dll expansion thing a few weeks back, that E3 game thing ???? I hope you stick with this... or anything for that matter...

Quote: "I had a simple PureBASIC Interpreter working Sunday, it converted instructions to ASM realtime; only did a few of the commands like the basic syntax + dot and input. But the framework was solid enough for 8hrs work total."


Ok, I hope you understand that parsing commands, and the language constructs, are different aspects of the compiler. You need architecture first, then come commands. You'd be better suited to picking an easier dialect of basic first up.. and definitely do away with the line numbers.

If I were you, and going to write another parser.. I'd be tempted to look into making a dialect converter first up.. Something that could (in theory) load source codes of various editions of basic (Amstrad/specy/c64/Amos etc ) and translate it the best it can to a set destination...The code won't run (in 99% of the cases) but handy for people who want to port dialects around..

Since we all talking about our compiler here. I'll talk about mine

Feeling retro, lazy or just need a break. Well come check out the first preview of http://www.PlayBasic.Underwaredesign.com some time..

Kevin Picone
[url]www.underwaredesign.com[/url]
Play Nice! Play Basic (Out Now!)
DeepBlue
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Posted: 9th Jul 2004 07:51
uwdesign

The little pics on the site that start the javascript window only opened up a small windows & small pic in what I guess is the IDE in both my IE5.5 & Mozilla ? (srry can't put 6 on this PC just for that.. I take it works in 6?) Would have been nice to see a proper sized pic of the IDE


The coder formerly known as Twynklet.
empty
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Posted: 9th Jul 2004 07:53 Edited at: 9th Jul 2004 07:53
The IDE shown on there is the previous version. It's not used anymore.
I'll post a screeny of the new one.

Play Nice! Play Basic! Check it out. Now.
CattleRustler
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Posted: 9th Jul 2004 07:54
no, it happens in IE as well, the link is prolly pointing to the thumbnail instead of the large image


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empty
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Posted: 9th Jul 2004 08:05
BatVink
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Posted: 9th Jul 2004 08:15
Wasn't Basic created in the early 60's as a Fortran spin-off? Made it easier to learn outside of the industrial arena?

I learnt Basic using Microsoft Basic 1.0 on a Dragon 32!!

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Rob K
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Posted: 9th Jul 2004 08:33 Edited at: 9th Jul 2004 08:52
BASIC existed long before the BBC.

http://www.oreilly.com/pub/a/oreilly/news/languageposter_0504.html

May 1st, 1964 according to Oreilly.

Quote: "I had a simple PureBASIC Interpreter working Sunday, it converted instructions to ASM realtime; only did a few of the commands like the basic syntax + dot and input. But the framework was solid enough for 8hrs work total."


Sorry to be sceptical Raven, but the maths expression parser alone is more than 8hrs work to get it working properly (have a look at Lee's dev diaries to give you some idea). And that is only a tiny fraction of the "basic syntax".

<Digression and nostalgical musings, feel free to ignore>

Back to the old-skool computers debate, the BBC Model B was a very nice unit. Its pretty funny reading a manual in retrospect (I think its not the original BBC B manual but one produced by a third party that I have), which consistantly boasts about the "huge" 32K of memory. The manual is at least a decent 500+ pages though, something you're never likely to see nowadays.

I spent hours playing Thrust on that machine - and quite happily sat through the 5 minute loading screen (CHAIN "", sleep, ah... its finally loaded). I think I'll attempt a variant on that for the next TGC competiton.

I had an Amstrad at one point, but it was pretty naff to be honest, and the built in BASIC differed a fair amount from that of the BBC / Speccy / Commodore, sadly all the BASIC manuals I had were written for those ones.

Sadly I was not around in the 1970s and 1980s, so I had to pick this all up in retrospect. Would have been nice to have been there when they were first released though.


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Kevin Picone
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Posted: 9th Jul 2004 09:03
DeepBlue:

Well the small window opens up into a large window, once the picture has fully loaded. The picture is the original IDE, which has since been replaced.. It's a good reminder to update the site

Kevin Picone
[url]www.underwaredesign.com[/url]
Play Nice! Play Basic (Out Now!)
DeepBlue
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Posted: 9th Jul 2004 10:01 Edited at: 9th Jul 2004 10:13
OK its doing my head in can anyone remember a computer at around the same time that I think ran Forth as its native language & from what I remember looked like a white ZX81 ( no not a ZX80 ) ?

[Edit] Its OK I found it now it was a jupiter ace, I can sleep in peace now..srry about that [edit]

http://www.homecomputer.de/pages/f_info.html?Jupiter_Ace.html

The coder formerly known as Twynklet.
CattleRustler
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Posted: 9th Jul 2004 10:14
the Altair?

heh.


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IanM
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Posted: 9th Jul 2004 10:17
It was the Jupiter Ace. I remember looking at it at the time, and deciding against buying one because it didn't have basic

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Posted: 9th Jul 2004 10:25
I remember using BASIC on a CLI based operating system when i knew nothing at all about computers. It was before i had a windows PC. If i remember correctly it was called Mallard BASIC and i could only do it because i got two books with the computer telling me how to do it. I was stunned when i learned of the IF statement. I went months trying to work out how some people made games(ok i was only like 12 at the time, and a slow reader). I then moved onto AMOS basic but i understood this less . I would love to have another go at it if the chance emerged.

Visit the Db chat room, ask me for details!.
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 9th Jul 2004 18:41
Quote: "Sorry to be sceptical Raven, but the maths expression parser alone is more than 8hrs work to get it working properly (have a look at Lee's dev diaries to give you some idea). And that is only a tiny fraction of the "basic syntax"."


Rob, DarkBASIC and DarkBASIC Professional are both far more overly complex than they need to be. The aim with making the interpreter was to have valid code working code; not to make a) bug-free, b) easi to use for the end user.
Remember I'm not doing this BASIC for retail, i'm doing it for fun and other fans like myself.

Quote: "Wasn't Basic created in the early 60's as a Fortran spin-off? Made it easier to learn outside of the industrial arena?"

Perhaps, but as far as the UK was conserned technology-wise we were cut-off; quite literally infact. The only way you could learn any programming language before the 80s was if you were at University.

Quote: "I learnt Basic using Microsoft Basic 1.0 on a Dragon 32!!"

Don't remember MS BASIC on the Dragon 32... that said Microsoft didn't release anything until the 80s; so although the Dragon was out in 78, I highly doubt MS BASIC was.
(That chart claims MS BASIC 2.0 was released in 75, but there are a number of flaws it has conserning alot of the languages, particularly ANSI C which stuck out like a sore thumb as they seem to beileve it was accepted in '89 when the official documentation clearly outlines that it was availble from '84 and was officially adopted in '87)

There are a number of other peculiarities I see with stuff like Pascal's history.

Van B
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Posted: 9th Jul 2004 18:53
I'd love to see any interpreter written in 8 hours, it's simply daft to make a statement like that with people like UW on this forum who've just spent months writing full blown interpreters. Hell my script system is only just getting functional after a good 50 hours work on it.

Raven,
You always seem surprised when people dispute your claims, yet you always post completely innacurate information and expect us all just to shut up and listen. For a start, 64k of ram would have been a god send back then, BBC's had 32k as standard, Speccy's had 48k.

If you have a project right now, why not stick to it and finish it then watch us all 'squirm' as you finally release something, instead you post about a new project every week like some newbie. You know me and you know this isn't flaming, most of us here would just like to see you back up your claims once in a while - admitting your wrong would also be a refreshing change.

If you release an Acorn basic interpreter thingy, then I'll be happy to print this entire topic out and eat it.


Van-B


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AlecM
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Posted: 9th Jul 2004 19:23
Cheers to that VanB


Buy it
BatVink
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Posted: 9th Jul 2004 19:49
Quote: "it was called Mallard BASIC "

Amstrad PCW8256 and Amstrad PCW8512. based on a Z-80 processor

Quote: "so although the Dragon was out in 78, I highly doubt MS BASIC was."

Dragon 32 - 1982. Shortly folowed by Dragon 64, which put the Welsh company that made it into liquidation.
If the 4 colour, 320 pixel wide display of the Dragon came out in '78, I don't think the ZX80 would have had a look-in, with it's 32 sprite wide display.

Sink the Bismarck is dead, long live Sink the Bismarck! Anyone remember it, worked on the ZX80's 1K of memory?!?

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 9th Jul 2004 19:52
fine, i'll see about uploading it tonite; the Acorn had 64KB Ram though, never said it was all accessible
first 16KB is taken by the OS/BASIC, the next 16KB is for program access following 32KB is for application access.
That said it is still more than enough for any needs.
Just need to learn to stream your data, using the RAM as I/O rather than static; It's even worst when working with a PC as ppl get into really poor habbits.

I'm pretty sure Kevin could achieve his interpreted language with the same level of control as Acorn BASIC within a matter of hours; as now he has experience doing it and knows what he needs to do.
However to get the language to the same level he's at now would take alot longer...
Mainly because if you see Acorn BASIC in action and see ASM in action; you realise very quickly that you just have basic words wrapping ASM for you. There is nothing particularly special or complex about it... doing this as a compiler on the other hand is slightly tricker because all though you can use the same calls for both processors and expect them to act identically (ASM call is different but the function is identical).

What Kevin has in PlayBasic (and i have used it quite extensively the past few weeks), is alot of stuff which isn't nice to program; let alone try and interpret them realtime.
Type for example I can see being a nightmare without some sort of base memory control similar to C which structures and then unions memory to create larger memory blocks.

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 9th Jul 2004 19:53
Quote: "Dragon 32 - 1982. Shortly folowed by Dragon 64, which put the Welsh company that made it into liquidation.
If the 4 colour, 320 pixel wide display of the Dragon came out in '78, I don't think the ZX80 would have had a look-in, with it's 32 sprite wide display."


Hmm guess we're thinking of different Dragon32's, cause the one I have in storage is by Texas Instraments.

Dave J
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Posted: 9th Jul 2004 20:26
As far as I know the Dragon32 was made in 1982 by Dragon Data Ltd. Texas Instruments started manufacturing RAM in 1973 but that's about as close they came to producing a Dragon.


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Chris K
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Posted: 9th Jul 2004 21:18
Quote: "as far as the UK was conserned technology-wise we were cut-off; quite literally infact"


Noooooo.
He did it again.
BatVink
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Posted: 9th Jul 2004 21:29
Raven, you're not confusing it with the Tandy machine are you? That was very similar to a Dragon 32, looks and everything.

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HZence
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Posted: 9th Jul 2004 22:50
Quote: "the rest are just flames"


By people pointing out a flaw in your original post, I wouldn't call that a flame.


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Rob K
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Posted: 9th Jul 2004 23:00 Edited at: 9th Jul 2004 23:10
Quote: " fine, i'll see about uploading it tonite;"


Or you could show it off at the convention

Seriously though, there is no point trying to tell us too much about 1980s computers when you weren't old enough then to use them. I can only say a little based upon machines I have picked up at Jumble Sales and so on. Your situation is pretty much the same.

People like Ian, UW and VanB were around when these machines were the *in* thing, its a bit like a law student trying to teach Bill Gates.


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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 9th Jul 2004 23:38
I don't think it's Tandy, i'd have to check the loft (provided it hasn't been thrown out) ... I have some cartidges from it which say Texas Instraments on them. Either way you look at it, the machine technically wouldn't pre-date the acorn of even the BBC Micro it was based on.

Can't say I ever liked it though, don't think my dad did either cause it just sat up in the loft for a good number of years.
Had most of them up thier actually...
Vic 20, BBC Micro (Model A), CPC64 Full Model (with monitor which i thought was snazzy when we got it ^_^, Acorn Atom & Electron, Sinclair ZX80.

Quote: "Seriously though, there is no point trying to tell us too much about 1980s computers when you weren't old enough then to use them. I can only say a little based upon machines I have picked up at Jumble Sales and so on. Your situation is pretty much the same"


You think your situation is the same as mine?
All of my machine I have are ORIGINAL machines, they weren't bought at garage sales or such; this is why my Acorn is in such bad shape... because it's just as old as I am.
I've grown up using these machines, I could type before I could talk; during the late 70s and early 80s my father owned a company with his friend and built IBM-Compatible machines for all the businesses in Hertfordshire and Greater London area.
I remember vividly as kid helping my dad solder parts onto motherboards, sit there using MS-DOS/DR-DOS; (he eventually sold out to DataServ who were a very big corporation back in the 80s but bottomed out in the 90s whenn the Amiga was doing strong)

As for my mom, she was a Systems Programmer. She has a Unix based system here at home and used to teach me things about programming, so I could tinker building a system with my dad them my mom would teach me how to do strange things to it.

They were doing thier jobs all through the 70s, when most of this stuff was appearing for the home market; So thank you but I think they know just a little more about what was going on from both sides when the computer industry was breaking in the UK.

Quite frankly you obviously have no idea about the background I come from and as such just make assumptions. Simply put the people who have sat here and diatributed what I've said are people who are getting thier information from the internet rather than memory.

I can remember as a kid running out to Wolworths and grabbing the lastest games for my Amstrad with my pocket money, or taking tapes over to my mate Chris' house and we'd have fun with some strange game one of us created. Just because I was only a few years old doesn't mean I didn't live it.

Kevin Picone
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Location: Australia
Posted: 9th Jul 2004 23:52
Quote: "I'm pretty sure Kevin could achieve his interpreted language with the same level of control as Acorn BASIC within a matter of hours; as now he has experience doing it and knows what he needs to do.
However to get the language to the same level he's at now would take alot longer..."


PB has taken (to date) about 16/17 months and we're only just getting the 'language' (not the command set) to about 60/70% of were it needs to go...Technically this is the second/third compiler i've messed aruond with.. Howevere PB is easily the most mature of that bunch. Each one has evolved over previous mistakes. I certainly wish i'd hit upon some key ideas a decade ago though, when working on a wrapper language for my renderer.. But anyway live and learn.....

For the record, while I could prolly put a very simple basic parser together in a day (now), I certainly don't feel confident enough to say I could clone some thing like acorn basic, it'd still take me a month.. As always, there's a lot more to it than meets the eye.


Quote: "Mainly because if you see Acorn BASIC in action and see ASM in action; you realise very quickly that you just have basic words wrapping ASM for you. There is nothing particularly special or complex about it... doing this as a compiler on the other hand is slightly tricker because all though you can use the same calls for both processors and expect them to act identically (ASM call is different but the function is identical).
"


I don't really understand what your saying. As it appears my recollection of Acorn basic (BBC model B) is rather different to yours. However, to write a proper assembler, rather than a hacked one (guilty of that myself ) would be based around the same parser. So while not quiet as cumbersome, it's still not the easiest thing on the block to throw together.

There are certainly some basic commands that are mere translations of the machine code equivalents. some that come rapidly to mind can be . Goto=JMP/Gosub=JSR/Return=RTS/ INC= INC/DEC=DEC as well as bitwise shifts/ and/or etc etc Depends largely on the target processor though..


Heaps of the info on Acorn stuff

http://bbc.nvg.org/docs.php3

Towards the middle of that page is this file which has some really good info on BBC basic..

http://bbc.nvg.org/doc/AtomBBCBASIC.zip


The only reason it sticks in my mind today, was that it was probably the first basic that i'd seen that had procedures (like functions) inline assembler. All wrapped rather nicely together. At the time i enjoyed using it...


Quote: "What Kevin has in PlayBasic (and i have used it quite extensively the past few weeks), is alot of stuff which isn't nice to program; let alone try and interpret them realtime.
"


gezz... Your on the mailing list ?

Quote: "Type for example I can see being a nightmare without some sort of base memory control similar to C which structures and then unions memory to create larger memory blocks.
"


Their just structures... building a typed array and normal array are identical. The parsing part is lot more difficult than the runtime.




Rob:

Quote: "
People like Ian, UW and VanB were around when these machines were the *in* thing, its a bit like a law student trying to teach Bill Gates.
"


are you saying i'm old

Kevin Picone
[url]www.underwaredesign.com[/url]
Play Nice! Play Basic (Out Now!)
Van B
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Location: Sunnyvale
Posted: 9th Jul 2004 23:54
If any of you want a retro machine that is pure gold - go for an Tatung Einstein. They're very similar to CPC's (could actually run some CPC applications) but came with BBC Basic and a 3'' floppy drive. Uglier than sin, but that keyboard was great, and the monitor was great - just a total flipside of the hassle with Speccy tapes.

[href]www.geoff.org.uk/museum/tatung.htm[/href]

I've met 2 people in my life who've even heard of it.


Van-B


The nature of Monkey was irrepressible!.
Rob K
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Location: Surrey, United Kingdom
Posted: 10th Jul 2004 00:20
Quote: "Quite frankly you obviously have no idea about the background I come from and as such just make assumptions."


It was you who posted something about 6 months to a year ago saying that your 21st birthday was coming up soon. Oh, and that picture of you which you weren't too keen on other people seeing supported the idea that you are a student of around that age.


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Shadow Robert
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Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 10th Jul 2004 00:25
Well, I did omit some stuff... it was more a test to make sure the core wouldn't be a problem and get the VDU converted for VGA, as they're seriously different to access.
(still not finished the custom ASCII character commands which really are a *must*)

what i mainly omited was the pointer/asm/recasting stuff as that will probably take a good day on it's own to make sure it's working stable.

Acorn BASIC is slightly less complex in features than BBC BASIC, although it has identical command sets; as the Acorn didn't have some of the features, they're simply in there for compatibility.

I'm finding the longest thing is to actually sort out the damn documentation, takes so long



What i have for the interpreter so far, which isn't much for 3hrs of work.

the_winch
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Location: Oxford, UK
Posted: 10th Jul 2004 00:30
Quote: "I spent hours playing Thrust on that machine - and quite happily sat through the 5 minute loading screen (CHAIN "", sleep, ah... its finally loaded). I think I'll attempt a variant on that for the next TGC competiton."


I used to play thrust on the bbc a lot as well. Unfortunatly a lot of the disks are old and starting to fail. Last time I tried to use it it just beeped continiously when I started it so I think it is dead
As for the loading times, I had a disk drive so games loaded in about 15 seconds

can i scream
Shadow Robert
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Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 10th Jul 2004 00:32
Quote: "It was you who posted something about 6 months to a year ago saying that your 21st birthday was coming up soon. Oh, and that picture of you which you weren't too keen on other people seeing supported the idea that you are a student of around that age."


That picture of me that, that god damn Ermes guy keep using without my permission was when I was 17/18 ... which is not only from a long time ago, but what pissed me of was I hate people seeing what I look like, just as much as I hate people knowing how old I am.
Quite frankly it is non of anyone elses business; it is my personal business which belongs between myself and friends.

As for the student comment, my other half happens to be 28 and up until very recently was a full-time student... age has bugger all to do with it.

Dave J
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Location: Secret Military Pub, Down Under
Posted: 10th Jul 2004 00:38
God, that's a bit old for you, don't you think?


"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
David T
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Posted: 10th Jul 2004 00:45 Edited at: 10th Jul 2004 00:45
Like a grandparent for you exeat

You're not exactly that old either. I'm sure you've posted your age before...

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Dave J
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Posted: 10th Jul 2004 00:48
Actually I don't think I have posted my age before, I choose to refrain from posting in those "How old are you?" threads.

But you can easily tell from my childish humour that I'm only 12.


"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
Shadow Robert
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Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 10th Jul 2004 00:56
Quote: "God, that's a bit old for you, don't you think?"


well that depends on if you believe RobK is right about me being 6months into 21. lol
suppose a 7year gap would be a bit much.

David T
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Location: England
Posted: 10th Jul 2004 01:05
Quote: "Actually I don't think I have posted my age before, I choose to refrain from posting in those "How old are you?" threads.

But you can easily tell from my childish humour that I'm only 12."


Oh, I'm sure you've posted your photo then. I may be getting you mixed up for megaton. Although I'm positive I've seen a photo.

But maybe I'm juts mad.

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