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Geek Culture / Team Requests Forum

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Trev
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Posted: 17th Jul 2004 07:24
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I was browsing through the "Team Requests" forum noticing 3 different type of posts. One type is people Familiar with the types of Dark Basic, asking for help. Anouther is less familiar people or "newbies" asking for help. But their was a 3rd type where people want to make mmorpg's or people starting topics because their mad at people doing requsting teams and wanting to start impossible projects with no budget. Or they are posting them agaisnt posts that shouldn't be in the team requests forum wich includes theirs. I think that they should design the team requests forum to 2 seperate rooms one for the more experience coders and one for the less experience coders this way it would let the people who must enjoy flaming to just stay in the experienced team requests room to prevent upsetting themselves. this would also make it easyier for newbies to get together without all the people ridiculing them for every little mistake and letting them learn from the stickies and things without the flaming making them want to give up on the forums.

PS: If your mad at a the team requests forum don't be anouther person posting in their and making it worse just come here to help prevent what your mad at.

Trevor Somerville Making the best game Beast Hunter. So what if it dosn't have any sound or enemies yet....
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CattleRustler
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Posted: 17th Jul 2004 07:26
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well said Trev. That particular forum is kind of a mess atm. I almost posted a request there today but thought better of it for now.


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Jimmy
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Posted: 17th Jul 2004 07:30
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don't forget the forum for L33T Coders.


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Trev
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Posted: 17th Jul 2004 07:38
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@jimmy yes that is exactly what I am talking about the same with the "clueless newbie" those are pointless topics to the team requests forum. You are mad about people not using what the forum is for wich is Getting a team for a possible project. Not for complaining and whining how other people post. By doing that post in the team request forum you are just adding to the problem. I belive most of the people saying they want to make a mmorpg are just trying to get attension or make people mad. and by making topics to reckonize them you are just going to make people keep doing things like that. Also if they dont read all the stickeys and tips their are your flaming them won't help them.

Trevor Somerville Making the best game Beast Hunter. So what if it dosn't have any sound or enemies yet....
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CattleRustler
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Posted: 17th Jul 2004 07:50
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Trev, Jimmy's a good guy and a good coder and has been here a while. He has a keen sense of humor and was probably just playing around just now - you gotta *understand* Jimmy, he's special


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Trev
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Posted: 17th Jul 2004 07:56
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lol I wasn't trying to insult him I was just trying to get my point across

Trevor Somerville
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Jimmy
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Posted: 17th Jul 2004 08:56
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Actually, you're both wrong. I was referring to one of the most successful threads on there entitled "L33T coder. Willing to make a sub-par effort. Right here"

See we need an entire forum just for my threads, because I am teh real L33T. Not teh fakey L33T.


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CattleRustler
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Posted: 17th Jul 2004 09:00
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you're welcome.


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Tomy
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Posted: 17th Jul 2004 09:08
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Yah Trev that'd be a good idea. Tho there need to be changed even more in my opinion.

For example we could make two boards like:

-"Jobs Wanted"
-"Jobs Offered" (maybe only for experienced users)

Many users don't know they can also make request to join a team.
This would prevent us a bit from the "SUPER MEGA GAME STUDIOS INC GMBH (C) wants to make a kewl MMORPG, i need 10 programmers, 20 modellers..."(you know it )
And if you're searching for members as a team you don't have to start a team request ASAP you can also check the "Jobs Needed" board first. So there wouldn't be as much requests.


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Mattman
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Posted: 17th Jul 2004 09:09
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There's people like me who can code but need a modelor, but their are outnumbered by the bad posts like 7 million to 1(please help me please please please help me)

"Could you do something where you don't need a video card cause i don't have one" - Program Expert
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Trev
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Posted: 17th Jul 2004 09:13
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no offence mattman but even if the team reqest forum was more organized i'd doubt youll find a modelor because soo many people are eager to find them. Thats why im learning to model

Trevor Somerville
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Jimmy
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Posted: 17th Jul 2004 09:27
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OK CR,
Thanks for sticking up for me BRO
Your words are so KIND and heartfelt!
I just can't reach into the depths of my soul and grasp the words sufficient enough to describe my overwhelming gratitude towards you!

Love,
Jimmy


P.S.
XOXOXOXO


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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 17th Jul 2004 10:07
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No body has bothered to do anything abut the Team Requests even though alot of good methods were suggested.

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CattleRustler
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Posted: 17th Jul 2004 10:42
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Jimmy, sooooo dramatic

!SMACK!




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IanM
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Posted: 17th Jul 2004 11:04
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@Trev,

It'll happen eventually : http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=30979&b=9

At the moment, anyone serious about wanting to place a team request is just wasting their time, coz they're just going to get drowned out by the time wasters ... and I do include those who have to flame everyone who posts in that category too.

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John H
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Posted: 17th Jul 2004 17:46
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Been looking for a good modeller/texture artist for over a year now. They come...get concept...leave Damn modellers...


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Peter H
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Posted: 18th Jul 2004 11:14
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i watched the Team requests for awhile and i've decided to just learn how to model and texture on my own...

BTW @RPGamer-don't you say on your posts that you have to be over 17 to help? becuase that may be a reason you are not getting any help(at least one reason... )


Formerly known as "DarkWing Duck"
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C l a r k
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Posted: 18th Jul 2004 11:58 Edited at: 18th Jul 2004 11:59
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The team request forum is pandemoniom atm. I have a relatively good request (please see link at bottom -- if you find anything that should be improved please tell me), but its getting drowned because of all the "MEGAMONOPOLY COMPANY INC PRODUCTION STUDIO (C) (TM) (R)" crap. No one replies to good requests, but the bad ones get flamed and flamed and flamed, pushing the good ones down to the bottom. I think that requests should be SUBMITTED and APPROVED by mods, or maybe instead of ordering the Team Request by reply count, a rating system should be implemented and it should order by ratings (fellow posters should be able to rate requests.) That way, people can flmae all they want, but rate it down, so it sinks, and the higer rated ones will stay at the top. This makes it easier for people looking to join teams too; they don't have to weed out the teams worth joining.

Concept Software: http://concept.dbspot.com
Join the Team -- http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=35197&b=9
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Tomy
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Posted: 19th Jul 2004 01:15 Edited at: 19th Jul 2004 01:16
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You know the mods should change a bit too (no offence).
IF users point out bad thing in a team request, the request should be actually locked - with no exception.
Otherwise users will continue to point out bad things and therefore raise it to the top.
If a request is bad just lock it and let the user make a better one.
There's no point in saying "give us more infos, read the stickies or this thread gets locked."
Just lock it, otherwise the bad request will stay at the top forever.

I mean there are like 90% bad request and about 5% get locked.


GameVisions Softwares - http://www.gamevisions.ne1.net
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C l a r k
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Posted: 19th Jul 2004 01:51 Edited at: 19th Jul 2004 01:56
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Yeah, that brings up another point -- mods.
I recently posted "OMG I WANNA MAKE THE L33TORZ MMORPG."
I was collecting data to see how many people would jump at the opportunity to flame something thats A) in the wrong folder B) impossible, vs another post I made that was legitimate (STMCBA). Two or three posts into my data collecting, my thread got locked. It was as if the mod who locked it did it just to spite me...
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=35277&b=2
He even thought up a witty little insult to go along with the lock of my thread. True, the thread didnt hold too much value, but it was harmless...look at some of the other threads in the General Forum that havent been locked. I was rather shocked, and quite embarrassed...I held high respect for IanM, but what he did seemed kinda unreasonable...I mean, I guess if he were locking other bad topics I wouldnt complain...but its like...there are so many crap threads in the Requests board that go unlocked, and it seems like the mods ignore those, and just lock the petty stuff. Its a little like if you were in a forest, and you shot down all the deer, squirrels, and harmless stuff instead of saving your ammo for the lions, tigers and bears. [Oh my.]

Concept Software
STMCBA Battle Engine: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=35407&b=8
Team positions open!
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HZence
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Posted: 19th Jul 2004 04:27 Edited at: 19th Jul 2004 04:27
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Yeah, I love how mods abuse their power by throwing in those "witty comments" just because they know you can't do anything back. It's just as annoying as stupid teenagers who drive by in their BMWs that their parents bought for them (because they're spoiled brats) and yell crap out the window -- Because they know you can't do anything back.


Team EOD :: Programmer/Storyboard Assistant
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C l a r k
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Posted: 19th Jul 2004 04:30 Edited at: 19th Jul 2004 04:34
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Nice analogy!
Couldn't have said it better.

It's like instead of deciding to lock a thread based on the quality of the post, they base it on the quality of the cutesy-"I-have-almighty-power-over-you" comment they can make.

EX:
Quote: "Yeah, interesting idea ... not."

OH SHNAP, it would appear that I have been straight up dissed.

Concept Software
STMCBA Battle Engine
Team positions open!
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HZence
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Posted: 19th Jul 2004 05:16
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Word.


Team EOD :: Programmer/Storyboard Assistant
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the_winch
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Posted: 19th Jul 2004 05:23
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Quote: "I was collecting data to see how many people would jump at the opportunity to flame something thats A) in the wrong folder B) impossible, vs another post I made that was legitimate (STMCBA)."


So you delibratly posted somthing to encourage flames and did so in the wrong forum and are upset a mod locked it
What do you expect them to do? If everybody did that then the forums would be useless.

can i scream
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IanM
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Posted: 19th Jul 2004 05:41
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@Concept and HZence,

If you have a problem with my locking any post or banning a user, submit it to Rich. Anyone can do this if they feel that us mods do something that you feel is unreasonable.

I lock very few posts. IMO, that one was simply there to draw flames.

Simply pointing the finger and issuing what amounts to a 'dare' for a mod to have a go back doesn't help either.

Listen up guys, the only way that this is going to improve is if a few of you grow up a little more. I don't want to pre-vet every team request post - I don't have the time or the inclination. I do not want to become your baby sitter.

If you see a bad post *anywhere* then simply do not post to it and it will receive the oblivion it deserves. As soon as you give it any attention, including flames, you encourage that sort of post.

The need that you feel to flame a post is *most* of the problem that we have with team requests. In fact, it's my belief that flaming is our number-1 problem. Think twice before flaming.

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HZence
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Posted: 19th Jul 2004 07:35
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Ian,

Personally, it's not the fact that you locked it that gets me. In fact, it's not you specifically. It's the type of moderator (I know not all are this way) that seems to get all high and mighty.


Team EOD :: Programmer/Storyboard Assistant
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Tomy
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Posted: 19th Jul 2004 09:49 Edited at: 19th Jul 2004 09:50
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Then the hell there has to be at least one team request-mod who does nothing but locking senseless posts.

Quote: "If you see a bad post *anywhere* then simply do not post to it and it will receive the oblivion it deserves. As soon as you give it any attention, including flames, you encourage that sort of post.
"


You know this is never gonna happen. (not because of me specifically, but because you cannot tell 5000 ppl not to do something. They just won't listen.)
BTW i have seen some bad requests who are bumped by the author several times, which wouldn't be possible if there was just one who'd always lock bad requests.


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C l a r k
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Posted: 19th Jul 2004 11:47 Edited at: 19th Jul 2004 12:13
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Yeah, that's right....It's like the President saying "OK, I have a new rule...no more crime."


(Well, I wouldnt put it past George.)


EDIT:

Quote: "IMO, that one was simply there to draw flames."


And stuff like "I'm a Satanist [don't flame me]" isnt?
It's not that you locked it that irks me, its the clever little make-yourself-look-cool-[even-though-you-mod-a-programming-forum] comment that you left as you locked it.

Please explain what that was for.

Call me unethical but I don't think mods should spite the users...it discourages them from posting altogether. A simple lock would have sufficed.

IanM:
Quote: "Simply pointing the finger and issuing what amounts to a 'dare' [...] to have a go back doesn't help either."


IanM (one day before):
Quote: "Yeah, interesting idea ... not. I know, lets see how many threads you can get locked within 15 minutes of starting them! Well, well. There's one already "



Umm...conflict?

Quote: "If you have a problem with my locking any post or banning a user, submit it to Rich. Anyone can do this if they feel that us mods do something that you feel is unreasonable.
"


I'll take your advice.

Concept Software
STMCBA Battle Engine
Team positions open!
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IanM
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Posted: 19th Jul 2004 16:39
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Quote: "Then the hell there has to be at least one team request-mod who does nothing but locking senseless posts"


There was, but no-ones really picked up the slack now he's away more often. Even that wasn't great though, because he couldn't be there 24/7. I suppose I'll take a look this lunchtime and try and make a dent in it ... but there are going to be a few people annoyed at me by the end of the day, coz I'm not just going to lock threads ...

Quote: "You know this is never gonna happen"


No, it's probably never going to happen. There are too many who use it as a way to build their egos. They think that tearing someone else down builds them up - School-yard psychology :p

Quote: "And stuff like "I'm a Satanist [don't flame me]" isnt?"


No it wasn't. It was an offshoot of an existing thread where the author was asked to explain his beliefs and decided against hijacking someone elses thread to do so. *I* marked it as flamebait because of its potential for problems, but in the end it all stayed quite civilised.

Quote: "Please explain what that was for"


It was sarcasm. It was there to offset the 'look at how much attention I'm getting' post of yours. Besides that, I try to never lock a post without some sort of reason being posted.

Quote: "Yeah, that's right....It's like the President saying "OK, I have a new rule...no more crime.""


No, It's about being personally responsible for what you post. No-one makes you click on the 'Post Message' button but you.

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BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 19th Jul 2004 17:28
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Here's how I see it, just recently throwing some noodles into the debate.

The thing Concept was trying to do seemed interesting, but maybe it would have been a good ideal to contact IanM or another mod via email or something to ask permission and to ask that they spread the word that the thread shouldn't be locked for a while.

It seems you guys are forgetting we have some fair mods on these boards. I've looked around some of the others and the mods are just there to tell people to shutup, ban accounts/lock & delete threads, flame newbies, and curse at everyone else.

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DarkSin
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Posted: 19th Jul 2004 17:43
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hmm first I gotta stop laughing... .... ok i think... yea it stoped hehehe... What you thought of concept was an OK idea but not thourghly thought out. That and you dont seem to be pointing out a few facts other then the negative. For instance the fact that all of them are not being paid, they are just normal users that have SHOWN themselves to Rich that they are responsible, trustworthy (well you gotta wonder about jess ) people. IanM, RPG Gamer, and the others all spend part of there time to help keep this forum a little bit more livable. Sure allot of people can say HEY! I can do allot better! Well the problem with that is A) Who says your not just all hyped up becuase your still knew, lots of people show up and just leave after a few months. B) How the heck are they suppost to know they can trust yea? There is no real way you could prove yourself to responsibly hold the power of a mod and not abuse it.
Now I know your not attempting to be a mod, just try to change how crap gets on top. But if you don't look at what it takes to become a mod & stay active as one then that just foolish. Really I see no real great way of keepig the crap from hitting the top.

P.S. I did like the one idea a while back about a normal forum & an advanced forum where you had to prove yourself and have a mod autherize you in. But again, to much work on the mods. Unfortunetly thats the best idea ive heard imho, so you might as well atleast let yourself not post on those forums so there is one less bump.


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Tomy
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Posted: 19th Jul 2004 21:27
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Quote: "There was, but no-ones really picked up the slack now he's away more often. Even that wasn't great though, because he couldn't be there 24/7. I suppose I'll take a look this lunchtime and try and make a dent in it ... but there are going to be a few people annoyed at me by the end of the day, coz I'm not just going to lock threads ...
"


I will not be part of those ppl who are annoyed Thx a lot IanM!
BTW Concept, i think IanM is a very good mod and you should think a bit before accusing him.
He really has a great knowledge, gives a lot of help to everyone and argues very reasonable.
I'd think twice b4 contacting Rich. Though if you do it won't help ya anyways, ianM has proven his reliability too many times.


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C l a r k
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Posted: 19th Jul 2004 22:22 Edited at: 19th Jul 2004 22:24
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@Darksin
whoa whoa whoa, when did I say anything aout other mods? The majority of them are cool.

@IanM
ok, let's try to make a truce or something, cause this has pretty much stolen the thread. I just ave ONE request.

Quote: "Besides that, I try to never lock a post without some sort of reason being posted."

Quote: "'look at how much attention I'm getting'"

Well, why didn't you just say that I was trying to draw attentipon to myself instead of "tearing someone else down [to] build [you] up?"

I think its great that you leave a post before locking. People have to know what they did before they get punished.

But, *please* try to be a little more straightforward and less sarcastic. How was I supposed to know that the reason you locked my thread was that "I made it for attention"? (Another arguable point, but forget it.) Instead, you said my idea was dumb and dared me to go screw up some more.

Concept Software
STMCBA Battle Engine
Team positions open!
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Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 19th Jul 2004 22:37
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The team requests board either needs super moderation to remove all the cruddy team requests, or it somehow needs to get the message across that 4 lines of story and a short list of the jobs just doesn't cut it as a team request. At the moment the stupid team requests get flamed, and the good ones get ignored.

To be honest, the team requests board should just be removed... but the problem then would be the "n00bs" would just post rubbish team requests all over the other boards. How many teams have been successful that have been formed using that board? How many team projects have we seen completed (or even started) in the WIP and Program Announcements board? The board needs some serious re-thinking, people just don't read (or plain ignore) the stickies.

Isn't it? Wasn't it? Marvellous!
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IanM
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Posted: 19th Jul 2004 23:00
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Unfortunately, some of the reasonable team requests get flamed too - something I've found out this lunchtime.

In summary:
3 locked posts,
2 'helpful' updates,
6 deleted posts,
several tons of noise within threads deleted (this was by the biggest problem)

... and it only took me 50 minutes :p

I could have been working on the interface library instead of that - and I'd have had a lot more fun doing it.

I think I'll have a chat with Rich tonight about stamping down on the team requests forum. It may need some heavy laying down of the law in there for a while.

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Dave J
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Posted: 19th Jul 2004 23:08
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Quote: "Two or three posts into my data collecting, my thread got locked. It was as if the mod who locked it did it just to spite me...
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=35277&b=2
He even thought up a witty little insult to go along with the lock of my thread."


You're paranoid.


"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
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Tomy
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Posted: 20th Jul 2004 07:19
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Woohoo

About 4 of the posts you deleted were written by me
Well, sorry Ian for wasting your time^^


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IanM
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Posted: 20th Jul 2004 07:46
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Don't worry about it - there were others who were far worse

Anyway, vast forces have been roused and are moving towards the team request forum. Who knows what the outcome will be? All we know is that it will be bloody.

Hmm, perhaps I ought to volunteer as a writer ... not

Oh, yes. I forgot ... It will be REVENGE!

*** Coming soon - Network Plug-in - Check my site for info ***
For free Plug-ins, source and the Interface library for Visual C++ 6, .NET and now for Dev-C++ http://www.matrix1.demon.co.uk
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