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Newcomers DBPro Corner / MMORPGs, Game Engines, and the meaning of life...

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Uber Newbie
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Posted: 24th Jul 2004 03:52
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First of all, let me say that I have read many of the posts on this forum and I see that people are sick of hearing about MMORPGs. I am not about to say that I'm putting together the next kick-arse MMORPG, but I do have some musings about them.

What exactly constitutes a mmorpg? Is it a matter of how many players are logged on playing, or is it a matter of design? For instance, if I have a game that 300 players can all play at the same time is that a mmorpg, or does the game need to be able to support more than 1000 players to have that distinction?

What kind of hardware should a game server of this type have?

Does anyone think running an emu of a current mmorpg would be a good learning experience to someone desiring to design his or her own mmorpg?

When using DBP to create a game of any type, do you have to write your game engine from scratch? Are there any "template" engines that come with the package?

Oh, and the meaning of life is 42.

The more I know, the less I understand.
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Zero Blitzt
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Posted: 24th Jul 2004 04:04
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Douglas Adams fan, I see.

Ever been to GameFAQs? LUE 402, my friend.

Anyway, I'd say that a Massively Multiplayer game is one that has 500+ People on it round the clock, has a decent selection of places to go (it isn't just one map you are stuck to), and is able to take a huge load on it's servers.

You aren't going to be able to learn to code an entire MMORPG yourself. You need a team. And no, there arent any template engines. Coding != Laziness.


--#coding, like coding, but with a #--
Rush owns--> www.Rush.com ---> I'm going to see them Aug. 7
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Skeletor
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Posted: 24th Jul 2004 04:11 Edited at: 24th Jul 2004 04:13
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Quote: "
Coding != Laziness."

Lmao, well put Zero Blitzt

Ya uber newbie you would have to write your own engine for your game.

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Uber Newbie
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Posted: 24th Jul 2004 04:13
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Yes, I've seen where everyone says you need a huge team of programmers to create a MMORPG, but I'm not so sure. I think it may depend on how high you are setting your standards. What if you wanted to concentrate on the quality of play more than the quality of the graphics? Why should you try to compete with the big dogs like EQ, DAoC and so on? I'm thinking of a smaller scale game of less than 1000 players per server. Sort of a "Mom and Pop" version of a MMORPG.

Ever hear of a game called "The Realm"? It was put out years ago by Sierra Online and is still running today. A company called Norseman Games has it now and it looks pretty much the same as it did all those years ago.

And let's not leave out "Runescape". That's a browser-based game that was started by one guy. I'm not sure if he has help with it now or not, but it's impressive nonetheless.

I think something like that is a reasonable goal for a small team or even a skilled individual, given enough time.

The more I know, the less I understand.
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Uber Newbie
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Posted: 24th Jul 2004 04:15
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I'm cool with that, skel, I just didn't know if the package came with anything like that. Actually, I'm looking forward to learning how to write the engine. From what I've seen so far, it's very interesting stuff.

The more I know, the less I understand.
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Zero Blitzt
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Posted: 24th Jul 2004 04:16
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Sure, get yourself a team, and work for a few years and you can put out a MMORPG. But, trust us, you will get bored you finish.

Rome wasn't built in a day. Neither was EverQuest, The Realm, nor Runescape. Runescape may have been started by one guy, but if you look closely on the site, you see the logo for "Jagex". He had help from the Jagex team.

Just ask my brother, he plays Runescape nonstop...


--#coding, like coding, but with a #--
Rush owns--> www.Rush.com ---> I'm going to see them Aug. 7
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Skeletor
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Posted: 24th Jul 2004 04:17 Edited at: 24th Jul 2004 04:20
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Uber Newbie... You better get used to programming in DBC/DBP before you even think about starting a MMO. My advice and probably half of this forums advice is to start with pong and work your way up. Also from what I hear DB can only hold a max of like 250 players at a time. Anyhow good luck

Edit: Uber Newbie you should check out the codebase / my website. I have 5 post in the codebase/ my website that can help a beginning DB programmer get started.
My website is located under the post (Little Web button thingy)

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Uber Newbie
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Posted: 24th Jul 2004 04:21
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LOL I'm not sure I'll get bored. I really do like the subject matter. I think I'm more interested in making a game work than I am in playing it.

Anyway, I'm not about to start with a multiplayer game. I am about 90% sure that I will purchase the DBP game making package soon. I've been spending this past year reading about game design and programming and deciding what platform to use and I think I'm about there. Needless to say, I'm in no hurry.

The more I know, the less I understand.
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Uber Newbie
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Posted: 24th Jul 2004 04:22
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Cool, Skeletor, thanks alot.

The more I know, the less I understand.
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Skeletor
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Posted: 24th Jul 2004 04:36 Edited at: 24th Jul 2004 04:36
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heh
Ya Pong and Breakout are a little boring to program... but when you start tweakin them to make new and different types it gets fun.
However I did have fun programming my 2d Shoot em up game "Saddam's Army" which I turned into an Engine for anyone to use.

All the source code to my games is on codebase or my site. The only thing is they are all programmed in DBC not DBP. I did happen to get DBP about a week ago though so all my future projects will be programmed in it.

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SandraD
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Posted: 24th Jul 2004 10:37
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Well, for my money it's worth looking into the MUDS, which are multiuser RPGs without graphics. The idea behind my reasoning is -- the server has a different kind of programming than the client software, so an understanding of both is a required for any mega-user game. MUDS are great at the multiple users per game space concept, though are text based (or were) in their hey-day. If you replace the text descriptions with graphic image commands and the like, you have the latter, so it might be of worth to look into them.

That's my two cents.... hope it helps.
S.

Any truly great code should be indisguishable from magic.
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Oneka
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Posted: 24th Jul 2004 11:45
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iam making a MMORPG
*ducks*


Making better games everday!
Oh yeah and just so you know its Oh-nek-a not One-ka!
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zircher
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Posted: 25th Jul 2004 02:00
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To complement SandraD's suggestion, Rogue like games are a path to Diablo/RPGs and that is in turn a stepping stone to larger multi-player projects.
--
TAZ

History did not begin with PONG. -- Greg Costikyan

Game Beavers
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BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 25th Jul 2004 05:38
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Perhaps somebody should sticky thise post and label it as "The Correct Way To Ask About MMO Development".

From what I've seen a lot of people come in here with an ending goal. Sometimes it's to become the uber BASIC programmer and then move on to C++, but for the vast majority it's I wanna make such and such a game, usually it's a very big game.

If an MMO is your goal, then be sure that when you start small learning projects you choose projects that will help you learn the different parts of an MMO. Of course you don't want to only make one type of game, but kind of focus on that, and every once in a while spread out to other genres to keep your mind fresh.

Crazy Donut Productions, Current Project: Project Starbuks
Sony stole our name!
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Uber Newbie
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Posted: 26th Jul 2004 22:00
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Yep, I'll definitely be starting with baby steps at first. However, my idea of baby steps may not be the same as someone else's. For instance, I will probably try to master the individual components of the game one at a time and include multiplayer as part of the process as a whole. In other words, I'll most likely try to make my first game multiplayer on a small scale. Probably a two player game of some kind.

Thanks to everyone for the great feedback, it's given me some valuable food for thought.

The more I know, the less I understand.
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Yart
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Posted: 27th Jul 2004 22:16
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You're welcome!






...
Oh wait... >_<

Pie!
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