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Newcomers DBPro Corner / Learning DarkBASIC - Starting big!?!

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Ragnarok89
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Posted: 5th Aug 2004 11:40
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I've read so many posts about start off small, do Pong, Outbreak, Tetris, Etc. But I can't do that. Wonder why... ...Oh well. So yes I'm goin to start off big... Final Fantasy VII Remake ...
I know this sounds rediculus to most lol, but i think the reason i can't start off small is that it doesn't challenge me, to boring and I lose interest cause I have VERY short attention span to things that are boring (i.e. school, work, etc. lol)
Now for the reason for this post...I will need help on some of the aspects like A.I., The Models (though I am learning to use DeleD and Wings 3D), but mostly the levels. Anyone know what would be the best way to make them...Should I draw them then make em like a backgroung or should I actually take the game (Pictured backgrounds, Their 3D models, And other aspects of the game and make the completely 3D and better models, or use better 3D models and leave the small places like cities just pictures)
Any help would be greatly appreciated. Things like helping me with the models, getin the story line (though I think I know the perfect place for that...Dialect and all) and changing it a bit, making parts of the game better/more fair.
I should be able to figure out most of the code...the hardest being A.I. and...crap forgot the word at the moment I will post it later lol.

If anyone helps me at all Thanks in advance.
Ragnarok
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MKII
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Posted: 5th Aug 2004 11:57
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honestly a final fantasy VII remake for someone with a short attention span is insane you need to learn the basics of it. If you dont you'll get stuck on parts. No offense ment. I did the same thing expect i tried to make a fps. My advice would be to start with somthing easy and build off of it.

i like cheese
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Ragnarok89
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Posted: 5th Aug 2004 12:04
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1) I tried small with that pong thing but I quit it after like 5 min cause it got boring lol. But when I read the crap that people are puting in the codebase, posts and other places I can easily figure what the commands do.
2) I remember the word that I said I might have problems on...Collision lol.
3) I know it's insane but It was a great game and I know that if I just work on it at school..hehe.. I will get it done eventually.

But still, thanks for the advice.
Ragnarok
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Code Machine
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Posted: 5th Aug 2004 20:40
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I second nathann t's suggestion of insanity. If you can't keep concentration long enough to make pong then what chance do you have? I tried to start with a medium size game (an fps like nathann t), but decided to make a couple of smaller games like Tetris and draughts (or drafts to our distant cousins ), and definetly feel I've learned alot more, and more quickly .

It sounds like your mind is made up, but if you want something challenging which isn't too big, do a re-make of Pacman! It has all the basic elements of a game : your character, enemies, graphics, animation, AI, scoring, sound effects, level design, basic 2D collision, etc ... (That'll be one of my next projects). You can't say it is as boring as pong since it is 1-player game where you get something out at the end which you can play.

If you decide to do Pacman, then let me know. If I haven't convinced you, then good luck with FFVII, because you are going to need it
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zircher
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Posted: 5th Aug 2004 23:59
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A smaller step, but still a big step in the direction you want to go is to build a Rogue-like game.
--
TAZ

"Do you think it is wise to provoke him?" "It's what I do." -- Stargate SG-1
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the_winch
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Posted: 6th Aug 2004 02:20 Edited at: 6th Aug 2004 02:29
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I think the advise to start small on pong / space invaders / pacman etc. doesn't work as well with the 3d generation.

I didn't make pong first but a clone of a space invaders type game. I chose it because I actually player it a lot when younger and it was actually something I wanted to make. As it was my first game it had numerious bugs and the code was pretty poor and no sane person would actually want to play the game.
The important part is after I finished I could attempt it again and write a better version. Thats all most people are capable of getting from their first few games.

If you don't find remaking an old game intresting enough don't try to make one.
Make a simple 3d rpg instead. It might just be a matrix with a few buildings that you walk around looking for objects. Nothing that anyone will want to play but you will learn a lot in doing it.
Then make a new version where there a people you can talk to and perhaps fight.
You will gain a lot of experiance and make a lot of mistakes. Some of the mistakes will be so bad you will have to scrap the project and start another one. As long as you gain something from the project that isn't a bad thing.

it's cool to hate
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gothboy 101
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Posted: 6th Aug 2004 02:32
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just dont name it anything with final fantasy in the name (law suites aren't fun) and one more thing go for it have fun.

Dragonseige
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Ragnarok89
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Posted: 6th Aug 2004 08:32
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@Zircher: Rogue-Like Game?

@Gothboy 101: I don't plan to sell it or anything...just something that i can prove to myself I can do it lol...also a learning experience.
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Mytho
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Posted: 6th Aug 2004 16:41
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i'd have to suggest something similar to these guys.

it doesn't matter what you start on, how big or small. all that matters is that you keep working on it and learn how to use the language.

if you finish something, it really doesn't change much. however, if you learn something, that counts for quite a bit.

even if you do give up on the project, and start a different one, you can always come back to it latter and clean up your code.

Dare to attempt the MMORPG.
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Code Machine
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Posted: 6th Aug 2004 19:33
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@the_winch

I guess younger people won't have as much of the 8-bit or 16-bit experiences to fall back on like us 'older' folk do . It still has to be a simple game I believe because even the simplest have all kinds of little traps and tricks that need to be used. I just finished Tetris, a 'simple' game, and the number of pitfalls there are is quite astonishing. Even if it is 3-D, it still has to be simple and achievable. Any suggestions for simple, doable 3-D games? If it has to be FFVII, then I guess start with one small section of the game, to see if it is possible.
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Sir Spaghetti Code
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Posted: 7th Aug 2004 00:58
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Gotta second these guys responses. If you get bored after 5 minutes of making pong, then that is not the green light to go for a huge project like a FFVII remake. Try making a simple FPS. Please do not think that because you can understand the code in the codebase that you can make a 3-D RPG. Many people come into these forums saying that they will start off big, and every one of them finally realized why everyone starts small. You have to start small to get a firm grasp on how a game engine works. Reading the manual for DB does not mean you can make the next GTA.

Please reconsider and at least make a couple of short games before moving onto an RPG. RPGs are the second hardest (next to MMORPGs) games to make, due to the insane amount of content and coding.

Or, if you choose not to listen to any of us, go for it! Go as big as you want, then after every one gets tired of answering your twenty questions a day in the Newcomers forum, maybe you will see that we are right.

Please do not take offense to this, as I myself am just beginning as well. I wanted to make my first game a FPS with elements of other games. Then, when I first started, I realized I could make each part of the game no problem, but what got me stuck was trying to make all the elements come together to make the full game. You must have experience making smaller games to understand how to make the game loop correctly. We cannot stress this enough. Hope this may have helped a little!

Fraggles where quite the scary lot...
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zircher
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Posted: 7th Aug 2004 03:53
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Ragnarok asked, "Rogue-Like Game?"

Rogue is an old school dungeon hack with minimal graphics. Often times the ASCII characters (text) were used to build the corridors and rooms that made up the game. Monsters would be roaming letters of the alphabet, a for giant ant, b for bear, etc. Rogue-likes have a long tradition and are capable of some interestingly deep quests. Diablo is a modern version of a rogue-like game.
--
TAZ

"Do you think it is wise to provoke him?" "It's what I do." -- Stargate SG-1
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Ragnarok89
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Posted: 7th Aug 2004 11:55
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@Mytho: That's what I thought, and i really don't plan on giving up on it unless I learn enough to make my own game finally. (Hopefully)

@Code Machine:By small parts do you mean like the different engines at a time(Physics Engine, Battle System, etc.)

@Sir Spegetti Code:No offence taken , and I guess I'll have to learn the hardway with the main loop, like which goes first and stuff like that though it doesn't seen that hard. (I may prove my self wrong VERY soon if it's as hard as you say it is...but I guess we'll see )

@:Zircherh..ok...I used to love Diablo over the net till to many hackers lol.
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The Great Poe
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Posted: 7th Aug 2004 14:53
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*only reads first post*

.....

.....

*laughs*
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The Great Poe
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Posted: 7th Aug 2004 15:17
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I'm sorry. That was mean, but you get my point.

You can't start with like 5 people remaking a game made by probably 40+ people who've dedicated their entire lives to the field, and who have probably spent millions of dollars and years making the game. You've never made a game before, and you don't understand that coding is FRIGHTFULLY tedious, regardless of what game your making. In fact, I think you should make Tetris, and you'll quickly realize how ridiculous your idea is. I'm sorry. I might think a little differently if you actually make a game.
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aArON ProSeries Soft
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Posted: 7th Aug 2004 19:01
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LoL...dude, no offense but i'm not condeming your spirit but sometimes we gotta be realistic, REALISTIC. Yeah agree wit ya, pong and those games are kinda boring, but if you want to start off with a remake of FF7, I can assure it's TOTALY IMPOSSIBLE, like i say no offense. Probably you should start off with a 2D rpg, understand the engine and how the code works then only move on to 3D, if you don't mind, you can go look around one of the all-time classic, equilbirium (sp?), it's a great 3d rpg by magic somthing, sorry but i can't remmember the author's name. It's rather a technical 3d rpg demo and it takes a lot of time to do such a simple game. Trust me dude, start off with something simple, it's like you can't even walk and you want to run. Get it?
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SandraD
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Posted: 7th Aug 2004 20:04 Edited at: 7th Aug 2004 21:31
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Okay, it's time for my two-cents here....

While I agree with everything said before I would not want to discourage you, though I do fear that many speak from the voice of exerience. It is a simple fact that when you are learning what may seem easy at first glance can become a nightmare, as you try to add "something new" and find you must rewrite major parts of the code over and over for each change. About then is when you have a flash of inspiration and decide upon a whole new format of the data, meaning you have to start over from scratch. That is how the coding process goes, until you gain some experience. Even those with years of coding under their belt find the same to be true, such that the "document and plan everything" advice given here in the forums makes more sense than it appears at first.

However, if you feel you must start on the 'big project' at the start of your career by all means do so, but do not be surprised if it is only marginally accepted by the public. You are one person and have only so many hours you can devote to it, and thus will be playing "catch up" for a long time. Even longer as you have to spend more and more time rewriting that code section or this one, but again, that is the nature of the beast. When you are done, you can feel both satisifed that it was your first project and your love of years, but again it'd be rare for anyone else to see that.

Trust me... this is how it goes. I wrote and operated a BBS under these conditions, and wrote and released a compiler under the same. To date, none but the most stallwart individuals have ever given me the shareware donation asked of my public coding, let alone any acknowledgement of the hours spent on the effort. {edit: And I should point out, I'm still the top downloaded package(s) in my field.} My advice, like those of the others, is to learn the language and its tricks and traps first, then code your project. If you prefer to not do so, then more power to you!

Sandra.

Any truly great code should be indisguishable from magic.
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