Sorry your browser is not supported!

You are using an outdated browser that does not support modern web technologies, in order to use this site please update to a new browser.

Browsers supported include Chrome, FireFox, Safari, Opera, Internet Explorer 10+ or Microsoft Edge.

Geek Culture / Game music composing tips?

Author
Message
Van B
Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Oct 2002
Location: Sunnyvale
Posted: 6th Aug 2004 01:03
Hi all,

Seeing as how a lot of us will be looking for those bonus points in the compo by making nice music to go with our games - how about the muzo's here give us some composing tips!

If we can get a few pointers then that'd be great, things like layer samples to make harmonies properly and some basic rules for drum loops - whatever's useful really, tired of starting a tune then just quiting because I don't like it straight away.

Fanks.


Van-B


Muhahahahaha.
empty
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: 3 boats down from the candy
Posted: 6th Aug 2004 01:15 Edited at: 6th Aug 2004 03:30
Some general arrangement hints (frequent mistakes):
- When you use different instruments make sure their basic frequencies aren't too close unless they play (nearly) the same thing. Ie. If you've got strings for the chords, don't use a warm pad sound for the melody.
- Go stereo . Ie, pan your instruments.
- Bass and melody should usually be centre panned
- Make sure the melody is loud and clear
- When you use mp3, compress* the song.
- When you use Mod Tracks, slightly compress* the samples previously unless they are compressed* already.
- Instrumental tracks should have a high dynamic range.


*Compress as in dynamic compression, NOT file compression.

Play Nice! Play Basic! Out now.

nFinity Emulator. Coming soon.
Clyde
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Aug 2004
Location: UK
Posted: 6th Aug 2004 03:09
Great Topic!

What software would you recommend using too for creating, and where's a good place to start from?

Cheers,
Clyde

Jeku
Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Jul 2003
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 6th Aug 2004 03:33
I would recommend using Reason for putting the music down, or, if you just want to layer samples together use something like Acid Music or Frootyloops.

I love Reason and have used it for about three years.

Clyde
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Aug 2004
Location: UK
Posted: 6th Aug 2004 04:11
Thanks Jeku, I'll take alook for it!

Cheers,
Clyde

Karlos
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 18th Nov 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 6th Aug 2004 04:17
The easiest pieces are written in 4/4 in 4 bar sections

3 x a four bar section = verse

2 x a four bar section = chorus

Then just layer up - i usually start with strings for chords then chuck everything else on top.

the main thing is to match your music to the game. that is highly important

I keep the tracker software simple using either evolotion music studio or magix something-or-other

for tempo - depends on the game
slow hiphop=90-100
med hiphop =100-120
120-130 fairly quick
130-140 gettinig into some good techno here
140+ madness generally - plus you'll have to write a lot more as your song will finish quicker


hope that made sense

All Hail the Glory of the HypnoToad
XP Pro - Radeon 9000 Mobility- P4 3.0ish
Football management - Football Manager
Fallout
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 1st Sep 2002
Location: Basingstoke, England
Posted: 6th Aug 2004 04:54
Main tip:

Practice.

If you've never written music before, you won't be writing good music in time for the competition deadline.

If you think you are, then you're wrong. There is a phenominon called "New Musician's Folly" ... which I just made up, but I've seen it a thousand times and been there myself. You\'re proud with your work, so you release it, thinking it's good, when in fact it's utter dog nads. It's just good for you, and your sense of pride and accomplishment disguises this fact to you. People might tell you it's good, but generally these people are either lying to you to spare your feelings, being overly positive about something that's only half decent, or are thick as two short planks.

Of course, it's all relative to which style you\'re trying to write, and your general apptitude for the skills/ear required to write music. If you're trying to write a bit of UK Garage, then be confident you can pick up all the necessary skills in as long as it takes to fall asleep to an episode of Emmerdale. If you're trying to write more complex electronic music, or orchestral, then it will take a long time to make something good.

The other big limitation is samples. It takes years to build up a decent sample library. Buying sample CDs, sampling from other sources, saving, indexing, downloading samples, recording them yourself. There is no one stop shop for all the music samples you need. For your first months of composition, you will be constantly making do with what you've got, and that leads to poor, badly matched instruments and arrangement.

You also need to master the software you choose. Some software is tough to master, and will hinder your creativity. Some software excels with creativity but is technically limited. Either way, you need to learn to use VST/or other style plugins and other effects banks (such as those built into many software products) to make full rich sound. Most people overuse reverb and delay when they start out (assuming they do use it) and mush up the sound scape. Generally, production of tunes (by that I mean mastering to ensure clarity and quality) is very hard to achieve, and in about 10 years of composition, I'm still struggling to get that just right. It's the difference between the equivilent of a muddy bedroom recording of a rock band and the prestine sounds you hear from a professionally mastered CD.

Basically, I firmly believe you won't be able to write good music by the compo deadline if you have no experience producing music, unless you go for very simplified atmospheric styles, or repetative tunes with a simple structure. Both these styles can lend themselves to games, but people will be switching the music off if its not good, or too repetative.

Ok, but now the rant is done, I'll try and think of a few tips for you fool-hardy aspiring game musicians.

-Dont do orchestral. It'll sound crap. It's truely hard to write decent orchestral music with electronic equipment, and requires lots of practice. Also, musically, its the most complex style. You'll need decent pro grade samples, which you cant get free (maybe the odd one or two, but not all you need). So avoid!

-Do write electronic music.

-Do keep it simple and aim for minimalist type styles.

-Start from the centre, and work out. You should create a catchy main section first. Build it up, refine it, and then work backwards towards the intro, and forwards towards the end. If you start with an intro, you are leaving yourself open to a great start and then no room for movement to create the meat. Meat first!

-Spend time matching your samples, and don't settle for some crap. Make sure you put in enough effort to find the right samples, else you're starting with garbage and clashes, and you cant resolve that with composition.

-IMPORTANT: If you're unsure about a bit you've just added to the tune, scrap it. Delete it. Annihilate it. NEVER leave in anything you're unsure about, because the minute you begin to discolour your tune with a few mediocre bits, your tune is condemned to be, at best, AVERAGE. Most likely, if you allow yourself to add crap, it'll be crap. Crap upon crap equals stinked fetid piles of mouldy crap. You have to force yourself to keep trying and keep trying until the bit your adding is good, and if you cant get it right, scrap the whole idea.

-Dont kid yourself into thinking a tune is good when you've finished it. You need to leave it for some time, with lots of playback, to appreciate it from a more impartial point of few. On your first few tunes, you will think they rock, you will think they rock for weeks. It wont be until you outdo them with your next creation that you realise they were crap. And this will continue until you start to reach a platau of skill, when you can get some consistency. Basically, the more time you've spent composing, the quicker you'll be able to realise the TRUE quality of your tunes. I've been writing music for around 10 years, and as such, I am so used to it that I'm normally bored sh*tless of the tune before it's even finished. When you first start writing music there is a buzz which clouds your judgement.

-If a tune is going nowhere, leave it, and start another. You can always come back to it if you get ideas, or take elements from it into your new creation. As long as you start from the middle and work outwards, you'll know if the main hook is going to be good enough before you spend half a day doing the intro. Middle out - make sure the idea is good - then do the rest. If its crap, delete it. If it's ok, but you dont know where to take it, leave it and do something else.

-Never force creativity. If you dont feel like writing music, it will be crap.

-Draw inspiration from sounds, especially for electronic music. When you hear and sample a unique sound, think of how it could form a basis for a tune. It's a great way to do something with a unique hook and get you started.

Anyway, enough rubbish! I'm going to drink beer! Woohoo!

David T
Retired Moderator
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Aug 2002
Location: England
Posted: 6th Aug 2004 07:43
Good phrases are always multiples of 4 bars long (ie 4 bars, 8 bars etc.).

Try to keep the melody reasonably together - ie, instead of leaping around the octaves playing all over the place limit jumps to small steps maybe only skipping one note.

Get 15 new commands, all the date / time commands left out of DBPro for free!
DOWNLOAD PLUGINS HERE: http://www.davidtattersall.me.uk/ and select "DarkBasic"
BearCDPOLD
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 16th Oct 2003
Location: AZ,USA
Posted: 6th Aug 2004 15:56
Start sitting in front of a keyboard(either a crummy one from radioshack, your upright piano, or the one on the screen) and just think up a melody that is catchy.

A lot of the stuff here is traditional composition technique, although most of it is retained in contemporary music that's bitonal and all sorts of other crazy things like that these techniques are often disregarded for art.

I just find that logical people (like programmers) enjoy creating things with a structure. Here's the structure of a melody:


Melody
>>>Motif
>>>>>>Shape

A shape is a few notes in a pattern of pitches and rythms.
A motif is a few shapes strung together.
A melody is a string of motifs which all offer the same general patterns and vary pitches and rythms to create stress or resolve where necessary.

A good melody always ends on the pitch it started on.

If you have a little bit of music knowledge, or know somebody that can give you a little theory lesson, try to stick to the scales. Listen to the scales, pick one whose general mood would fit your music. You use the scales throughout the main part of your melody and deviate from them slightly (often stepping up to a different scale which is somehow connected to the original scale ie: being a fourth or fifth up from the original scale, the scale names spelling out something, etc.).

When figuring out chords, you'll want to think in thirds mostly. Of course play chords of thirds on the keyboard, then move notes up and down chromatically and see what kind of sound you get. Then remember the chord and add it to your piece later.



As for software, the easiest I've found (without getting into notation) is FL Studio. It has a rather large collection of instrument samples, and in turn a lot of those are presets of the various synths and generators, and you can tweak all of them until you get the sound you're looking for.

People use it for techno, trance, electronic..all that stuff. I've also used it to create rock Black Sabbath/Led Zeppelin/Van Halen style. You set up rythms in a sequencer where you click the beats you want the sample to be played on(kind of like HammerHead), then you can edit the pitch with a piano roll. Then once you have this collection of patterns you arrange them in a playlist, you can edit the patterns at any time, same with the playlist, it's so incredibly easy.
It also has support for midi keyboards, regular audio samples, and can export to .wav or .mp3.

If you're wanting classical, orchestral stuff, the "professional standards" are Finale or Sibelius, and a contracted orchestra( ). But there are a few cheaper solutions out there that still produce great quality sound:

Garritan Personal Orchestra
(demo)http://www.garritan.com/mp3/GPOAdventure.mp3
(site)http://www.garritan.com/GPO.html


Tutorials from Gamedev
Writing Game Music Part I
Writing Game Music Part II
Writing Game Music Part III
Writing Game Music Part IV

Crazy Donut Productions, Current Project: Project Starbuks
Sony stole our name!
Pincho Paxton
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Dec 2002
Location:
Posted: 6th Aug 2004 22:09
I think it helps to have a musical instrument like a Keyboard, or an electric guitar. Well, I'm just going to record whole songs directly into the computer, and then edit them with fruityloops...

When I get round to it.

eat much pie
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Apr 2004
Location: Within the mind of a lowly mortal...
Posted: 6th Aug 2004 22:37 Edited at: 6th Aug 2004 22:38
My sister's a musical buff and she has sibelius v2 (£600!!!).

I haven't played around with it, but it might be possible to make good game music on it


Checkpoint Router: my very own AI routing program: http://eatmuchpie.dbspot.com
BatVink
Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Apr 2003
Location: Gods own County, UK
Posted: 6th Aug 2004 22:52 Edited at: 6th Aug 2004 22:52
Start with a Bontempi Electronic Organ with numbers (you can stick your own numbers on if needs be)...



Pick up a music book with numbers above the 5 line thingy, and crack on. Seriously, Silent Night is learnable in under an hour, Love me Tender may take up to 90 minutes so be prepared for a long session.

BatVink
http://biglaugh.co.uk/catalog AMD 3000+ Barton, 512Mb Ram, 120 Gig Drive space, GeForce 5200 FX 128 Mb, Asus A7N8X Mobo.
Terms & Conditions apply
Dave J
Retired Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 11th Feb 2003
Location: Secret Military Pub, Down Under
Posted: 6th Aug 2004 23:17
Great tips! I know they'll help me (sort of a lost cause though Lol!)


"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
Van B
Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Oct 2002
Location: Sunnyvale
Posted: 7th Aug 2004 00:02
Thanks for posting all those great tips guys!

My dad likes to play keyboard, so I'll nab one of his old crappy ones for testing ideas out (he has this monster MIDI keyboard he keeps pestering me to hook up to his PC, if it was an AtariST from 15 years ago I might have a clue!).


Van-B


Muhahahahaha.
Kevin Picone
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Aug 2002
Location: Australia
Posted: 7th Aug 2004 00:15
Quote: ""basic rules for drum loops""



If you going to program your own rhythms.. avoid using blocked rhythms in set 4 bar patterns.. e.e A A A A, B B B B ! it sounds unrealistic and is just plain boring to the ear. Moreover, real drummers don't do it. While holding the core rhythm (bass line normally), Most players while react to different accents throughout the music, rather than repeat a section verbatim. For me, i'd mimic the odd vocal/guitar/keys line, to add some interaction.

* dynamics dynamics dynamics.... not every note has to be loud, it's more effective if you think of your part as a flow of uneven sound (volume wise) notes, as it's uninteresting if these notes are all at the same volume.. So our part will catch certain notes / key accents in the shape of the songs rhythm, while leaving others as the underlying supporting foundation..

If your into capturing the nature dynamics of real drummer in your sequence. There's a few things that come to mind.

---> When a drummer plays 1/8 notes on the HiHat , it's natural to accept the beat (the pulse). So counts 1,2,3,4 in a bar of 4/4. The off beat notes (the AND counts) are unaccented. Accented notes are generally played with the shoulder of the stick on the edge of the hihat, so they actually give a slightly different sound.. a "shaaa" sound. Unaccented notes are played the tip of the stick on the top the hihat. it gives a 'ticking' sound.. so a hihat playing accented 8th notes, gives a 1Sha +tick- 2sha +tick 3sha +tick 4sha + tick pattern.

---> fills are often naturally accented on the beat also. In particular when playing constant fills of 1/16th notes.

---> bass drums doubles (two shape notes of the bass note) are generally accepted outward. meaning the second note is louder than the first. This occurs when the drummer doesn't pull the beater back from the head, rather they bury it with down force of their knee. So it sounds more like "boom BOOM" then "BOOM BOOM"

---> Ghosts. Ghosted notes refers to dynamics, drummers often will play very quiet notes on the snare head underneath the rhythm, sort of filled it out with a little character.


* Feel.... When finding a feel that suits the layers above. Move often than not, LESS is MORE. The bass line often gives a good reference point for the bass drum pattern. That doesn't mean the bass drum mirrors the bass line.. more captures the feel.

* Poly-rhythms. When all the instruments play the same rhythm verbatim, it's actually quiet uninteresting to listen too. poly rhythms deal with playing counter rhythms in different accent grouping to the each other.. A common one, heard in probably every musical form under the sun. Is often referred to as 3 feel. While if has many implications, Basically you can think of the one instrument player accents every 3 counts, against the straight pulse of the other instruments that might be accenting every 4. (which is normal). Obviously since their counting in different figures it takes more than one bar (assuming their 4/4) for the two instruments to cycle back into place. So their both starting their pattern at the some time..

A simple drumming one is this.. Where the bass drum plays every 3rd 16th note against some straight 8th note time..










Another really really common grouping is 3-3-2. This concept deal with playing two mini patterns of three notes and one of two to ensure the phrase resolves itself inside a bar of 4/4 time. A bar of 4/4 time has eight, 8th notes. These are counted 1 + 2 + 3 + 4+ .. The numbers represent the beat, and the +'s are the off beats. If we count our 1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2 cycle agaist the pulse of the 4/4. We get a classic 3-3-2 feel.
i.e



Kevin Picone
[url]www.underwaredesign.com[/url]
Play Nice! Play Basic (Out Now!)
Van B
Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Oct 2002
Location: Sunnyvale
Posted: 7th Aug 2004 00:34
I tend to play with drums more than any other part, I like beats that sorta stumble along at their own pace but seem to fit the rest of the music - Pearl Jam or Beck are good examples - I hate BOOM-BOOM-BOOM-BOOM-tshtsh loops too. The layouts you've posted look quite similar to what I've been trying, I prefer the natural feel so hopefully I'm sorta on track with drums so far.

Of course the other things is that there's a shedload of free drum samples, I downloaded 2 complete sets yesterday (analogue drums and a TR707 set). I'll post a link to the site later when I get home.


Van-B


Muhahahahaha.
Sir Spaghetti Code
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 12th Jul 2004
Location: Just left of Hell
Posted: 8th Aug 2004 08:25
FruityLoops is the greatest, yeah!! I am not that great with game music, I really only make Drum'n'Bass, but I supposed that could be game music, just depends on the game.

As for facility, FruityLoops has everything you could want! Unlimited virtual channels and thousands of features I will never understand!

Fraggles where quite the scary lot...
Fallout
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 1st Sep 2002
Location: Basingstoke, England
Posted: 9th Aug 2004 06:59
Eh, throw up some links to your d'n'b spaghetti man. Follow my bannar to check out some of mine.

Mattman
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Jun 2003
Location: East Lansing
Posted: 10th Aug 2004 12:34
Hammerhead Drum Station > Best FREE drum program for pc. Considered using it for my band, but then we got another member, always better to have a real drummer then a laptop

"Could you do something where you don't need a video card cause i don't have one" - Program Expert
Cheater Cheater, Pumpkin FATTIE!!!
MikeS
Retired Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd Dec 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 10th Aug 2004 14:52
For someone with no music software and a budget of $200, what do you recommend? (Keep in mind a tool that'll get me the largest variety of music genre's possible.)

Note: I've messed around with Fruity Loops(demo) and ACID screenblast(free), and those seem the viable option.



A book? I hate book. Book is stupid.
(Formerly known as Yellow)
Game Freak10K
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 29th Apr 2004
Location:
Posted: 12th Aug 2004 15:15
Noteworthy composer
Anvil studio
==================
Google these two composers. I have electric piano-jeeze its got to be at least 10 or 11 yrs old, CASIO. I made a few songs, recorded them onto a tape and later on down the road, discovered these two nifty programs. I played back the old songs I recorded and rebuilt them in the computer. Fun once you pull it off. I now use Fruityloops 3.56, costed a pretty penny but it was a gift so...
Anyway those two composers are free and I believe both can export songs into mp3 format. Check it out.

Comics and Games-Bread and Butter.

Login to post a reply

Server time is: 2024-09-22 11:28:23
Your offset time is: 2024-09-22 11:28:23