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Geek Culture / basic>>>

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Plastico
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Posted: 9th Aug 2004 01:12
even though assembly is so "old" cant you do more with it, then with C++? then why dont developers use assembly, the games would rule.
MiR
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Posted: 9th Aug 2004 01:26
They do program some games partly in assembly(like Quake 3 for example) but you couldnĀ“t code something as massive as a game in such a low level languaje. It takes 5 years to make some games in C++.


Jam on mother f**ker.
Libera tu mente y te liberaras.
Powersoft
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Posted: 9th Aug 2004 01:29
Roller Coster Tycoon (first one) was ASM and C for the refrencing to wondows api


(i think)


Create or Play? You choose!
Plastico
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Posted: 9th Aug 2004 03:11
I just think because assembly is the closest relative to machine code, you would think AI, and game mechanics would surpass C++. I understand time is a huge factor, to bad 2.
Sir Spaghetti Code
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Posted: 9th Aug 2004 05:58
Mosy games will use C/C++ for most of the actuacl game mechanics, but then they may use Assembly for parts of the program that require faster processing time. Basicaly where time is an issue.

Fraggles where quite the scary lot...
Plastico
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Posted: 9th Aug 2004 06:28
i c, Im starting to grasp the huge amount of man hours it takes to produce commercial games.

examples being doom3, and hL2.
BearCDPOLD
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Location: AZ,USA
Posted: 9th Aug 2004 07:36
You guys act like DB is the only high level language that can be used to create games, and I'm not talking about Blitz(may God have mercy on its users' souls).

The only thing about C++ is that it's intimidating for a beginner. I tried to learn it a couple years ago and just gave up, but now that I'm more proficient in DB, I looked at it and could understand it a whole lot better.
What I'm going to do is use DB for another year or so, maybe go back to it every once in a while and play, but I'll switch to C++. There's plenty of open source engines out there, and if you got good enough you could even download the DirectXSDK and OpenGL utilities and try them out yourself.
Or...even better. Get something like Torque or IanM's wrapper for DBP. It's C++, but it's letting start at the shallow end of the pool before diving in to the murky depths.

Crazy Donut Productions, Current Project: Project Starbuks
Sony stole our name!
Plastico
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Posted: 9th Aug 2004 07:46
Quote: "(may God have mercy on its users' souls)."


im guessing blitz has some major drawbacks? lol, that gave me a good laugh though.
BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 9th Aug 2004 08:15
I guess it's just a running joke, BlitzVSdb. But personally, I tried out Blitz2d, that was easy enough to figure out, then I started on Blitz3d and was completely lost. DB had an easier approach for me when I was starting out.

Crazy Donut Productions, Current Project: Project Starbuks
Sony stole our name!
Karlos
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Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 9th Aug 2004 21:25
I used to write quite a lot of assembler for c64 and the amiga.
It was needed there for speed. Won't touch x86 asembly though as there is little need for it as higher level languages compile quite efficiently these days.
May do some assembler if i have a critical routine that is just too slow any other way but only as a last resort.

I'd say assembler is fairly easy just very very long and dull.


rather like this post really

All Hail the Glory of the HypnoToad
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Killswitch
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Location: School damnit!! Let me go!! PLEASE!!!
Posted: 9th Aug 2004 22:10
DarkBasic is a high level language, but are there any low level Basic langauges? Surely it would be possible to create a basic language straight from ASM, wouldn't that speed things up a hell of alot?

~It's a common mistake to make, the rules of the English langauge do not apply to insanity~
DrakeX
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Posted: 9th Aug 2004 23:01
DBP does compile to assembly, you know. your programs get compiled to assembly with a hell of a lot of calls to the DLLs when you use any command/function. but all the actual code, math, your own functions etc. is compiled to assembly, not interpreted like the old DB.

purebasic is damn fast and it has a very nice commandset too. it compiles to assembly and has some more advanced features like pointers and inline ASM (able to write assembly directly into the purebasic code). just because basic is "higher level" doesn't mean it can't do everything C++ can. as an example, blitzmax is somewhat object-oriented even, it has member functions / procedures in TYPEs, and types can inherit from other types.

as for the DB vs BB crap - i'm not going to bring it up. but if you want, there's a demo of B3D on the blitzbasic site, and you can download it and see what you think. since you're so interested in all these languages

and why are there so many languages? simply because there are so many different people who all like doing different things different ways.



same function, three different languages. fortran is kind of a dying language that looks a bit like BASIC. delphi is the newest incarnation of pascal/turbo pascal and is somewhat like visual basic in its target audience. then there are languages like perl, lisp, and python, which are used mainly for scripts.

here's something interesting. the same program, written in 621 different languages. there are a lot of BASICs

http://www.99-bottles-of-beer.net/

OK enough of that damn DBP fanboy banner. i'm NOT a DBP fanboy in any way. i haven't used DBP in over a year, and i don't really plan on using it again.
Plastico
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Posted: 10th Aug 2004 02:48
wow
zircher
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Location: Oklahoma
Posted: 10th Aug 2004 03:04 Edited at: 10th Aug 2004 03:12
One BASIC bad habit is that you do not have to declare your variables and this can create nasty bugs where you introduce a typo and it becomes a perfectly legit (and un-initialized) variable.

itwasadarkandstormynight = 2

a = itwasadarkandstormynight + itwasadarkamdstormynight

a = 2 and not 4

Why? Because, the second variable is equal to zero due to a typo. DBP will not issue an error message since it thinks you're adding two different variables together. This is why many people have asked for an OPTION EXPLICIT command in DBP so that the compiler will warn you when you create an undeclared variable. Visual BASIC has this command already and it is a real life saver.
--
TAZ

There is a DBP work around. DBP does check for UDT fields. So, if you create a huge UDT to contain all your working varibles, DBP will error check them during compilation.

type gmax
a as integer
b as string
itwasadarkandstormynight as integer
endtype

dim g as gmax

if g.a then print g.b : rem this compiles
if g.c then print g.b : rem this generates an easy to catch error since there is no 'c' field
g.a = g.itwasadarkandstormynight + g.itwasadarkamdstormynight : rem ditto - g.itwasadarkamdstormynight does not exist

"Do you think it is wise to provoke him?" "It's what I do." -- Stargate SG-1
Plastico
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Posted: 10th Aug 2004 04:32
Ya, that is something I havent noticed until now.

so, was DBP made with assembly?
Zeal
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Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posted: 10th Aug 2004 04:53 Edited at: 10th Aug 2004 04:56
I thought DBPRO converted your code to assembly before compiling your final exe. Thus while it might not be as efficient (as far as how many lines of code you use), its still the 'same' as straight assembly.

*edit yup Drakex answred my question heh

All you need is zeal
Kevin Picone
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Posted: 10th Aug 2004 04:57 Edited at: 10th Aug 2004 04:59
No the DBpro compiler/engine dll's are written C++. Although you can make a compiler that produces machine code binaries in anything. You could write one in DBpro if you felt like it.

Kevin Picone
[url]www.underwaredesign.com[/url]
Play Nice! Play Basic (Out Now!)
Plastico
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Posted: 10th Aug 2004 11:40
Quote: "You could write one in DBpro if you felt like it."


I was thinking of that..
Richard Davey
Retired Moderator
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Location: On the Jupiter Probe
Posted: 11th Aug 2004 23:51
Quote: "No the DBpro compiler/engine dll's are written C++"


Kinda.. the DLLs are written in C++, the core compiler functions are actually pure assembly.

"I am not young enough to know everything."
- Oscar Wilde
Kevin Picone
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Posted: 12th Aug 2004 00:27
Oh dear, I'm starting to wonder if you have any contact with Lee at all ? The compiler clearly isn't written _in_ assembly, It generates machine code binaries (assembly in this context), but it wasn't written in it.

Kevin Picone
[url]www.underwaredesign.com[/url]
Play Nice! Play Basic (Out Now!)

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