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Geek Culture / Who thinks they can decrypt this?

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eat much pie
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Posted: 24th Aug 2004 07:06
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I've just found TCA's Tiny Encryption Algorithm (TEA) dll, and was wondering if it could stand the ultimate test; you guys!

I've prepared 3 codes for you: the first uses a small key and a small piece of data. The second uses a long key and a small piece of data. The third uses a long key and a long piece of data

the first:
Ã2ÄJ…?š°

the second:
–F {Dmá™

the third:
^6®_öÁ~Þbµ]›Š¯<ÖÈ8I ç\²ñÞn¢Oµ~vãn–}Þ«8/


If you could flex your code-breaking muscles, I'd be very greatful.

Cheers!


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Sam Wright
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Three Score
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Posted: 24th Aug 2004 08:29
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1st hello
2nd no idea
3rd no idea

and to think i am usually pretty good at hacking encryption

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Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 24th Aug 2004 09:05
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2nd= world
3rd=decrypt this!!!

(j/k) i dnt have a clue really

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eat much pie
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Posted: 24th Aug 2004 18:56
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nope, none of you have gotten any yet. Keep trying!

If you want, I could post the answers so you could see how you could have figured it out.


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Sam Wright
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Posted: 24th Aug 2004 22:51
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Quote: "I've just found TCA's Tiny Encryption Algorithm (TEA) dll"

The actual idea wasn't mine - I just coded it...


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eat much pie
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Posted: 25th Aug 2004 01:29
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Alright then


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Sam Wright
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Posted: 25th Aug 2004 01:48
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@TCA can you adjust the vertical hold on your sig please?

@EMP: sorry, I tried, but it beat me (I`m not a LeEt HaXXor type anyway)

Mentor.

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Kevin Picone
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Posted: 25th Aug 2004 02:06 Edited at: 23rd Aug 2010 01:06
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You want to be very careful calling an external dll to protect your data. As what's to stop "John Q Cracker" wrapping the dll and lifting the key parameters at will ?


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Van B
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Posted: 25th Aug 2004 02:21
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There's really no need to use an external DLL, surely DB can handle some encryption - in fact DBPro is so sideways when it comes to hacking that hackers would have a tough job disassembling. Just don't store it as a long string anywhere, make the hacker work.

Ohh, and if it's a password serial thingy, put in a 30 second delay if they get the password wrong, that way they won't be able to 'machine-gun' your app with a password cracker.

If you really want to annoy them though, use a truncated result, like say your result is a long number - set it to a 100,000 limit, if it's above 100,000 - subtract 100,000 until it's below. Gives hackers far less to go on .


Van-B


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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 25th Aug 2004 02:59 Edited at: 25th Aug 2004 03:00
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Quote: "TCA can you adjust the vertical hold on your sig please?"

Unfortunately that would defeated the point of the animation.


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eat much pie
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Posted: 25th Aug 2004 03:01 Edited at: 25th Aug 2004 03:34
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yeah,i was wondering what would stop hackers from just messing around with the dll, but then I though that I could do a byte-for-byte check of the dll against what i know it to be. Something like this:



I could put the label "dll_array_filling" in another source file that I could create in a program, eg.



Perhaps it could work?


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Sam Wright
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Ian T
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Posted: 25th Aug 2004 03:14
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Good idea. They could just kill the check, of course, but it'd be a lot harder to root it out of the .exe.

As far as I know that is .

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Peter H
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Posted: 25th Aug 2004 03:15
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1- a word
2-a word
3 several words

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eat much pie
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Posted: 25th Aug 2004 03:32
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@ mouse
once they get a look at the code, there's not much I can do about it. I'll just use the system described above.

@ peter_H
very nearly got it! You're soooo close now! Oh wait, no you're not


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eat much pie
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Posted: 25th Aug 2004 04:07
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right; made the file (took about 30 secs), worked fine. Then, when it comes to compilation, it seems that it takes quite a long time to work through 9732 lines of code! I'll have to optimise this...


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eat much pie
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Posted: 25th Aug 2004 05:45
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WHAT!?!?!?! This just isn't nice at all. It took me 26 secs to check the dll! The code that made the label "dll_array_checking" is:



The code for the checking is:



The file created using the first program is included in the same project as the second code.

I was hoping to be able to check the dll every time I save/load, so 26 secs isn't really good enough. Would checking every other byte still make sure that the dll hasn't been tampered with? Perhaps every few bytes? How many bytes could I have between each checked byte while still being sure of the dll's fidelity?


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Sam Wright
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Posted: 25th Aug 2004 05:55
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Byte reading is very slow - what you need to do is read in blocks of, say, 1K and check that. You will then get the speed down to less than 1 second.


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eat much pie
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Posted: 25th Aug 2004 06:17 Edited at: 25th Aug 2004 06:28
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There don't seem to be any commands to do that in DBPro. Would you happen to have a plugin to do this?

Also, while you're here, where is the link to the TEA's source?

Cheers!

by the way, it seems that doing fewer encryptions with longer strings is quicker using the TEA, and the key doesn't affect speed


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Sam Wright
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Posted: 25th Aug 2004 06:35 Edited at: 25th Aug 2004 06:36
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Quote: "where is the link to the TEA's source?"

Good question - I'll have to see if I've still got it.

Quote: "Would you happen to have a plugin to do this?"

Yes, my File I/O system, I think has block I/O access - I'll have to look. Yes, it can.


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eat much pie
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Posted: 25th Aug 2004 06:41
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Right, great, excellent, um ... how?

Which command should I use and what are the syntax?

Cheers!


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Sam Wright
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Posted: 25th Aug 2004 07:32
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I've uploaded an example file I/O program on my site.


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Mussi
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Posted: 25th Aug 2004 07:38
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How is it that you got a dll for everything ?



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Posted: 25th Aug 2004 07:44
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'cos I'm brilliant.


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1010011 binary for 83
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Posted: 25th Aug 2004 10:47 Edited at: 25th Aug 2004 10:48
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do you have one to make a bootable OS out of a dbpro program

-didn't think so

http://free-space.myftp.org for free ftp
come and ye all shall be happy with 60mb more spaceth
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Posted: 25th Aug 2004 17:22
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Never really fancied making an OS...


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eat much pie
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Posted: 25th Aug 2004 17:53
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Ah, but then what's to stop someone from wrapping the memory plugin? It seems that the best method would be to write my own encryption code in DBPro.

If you could post a link to the source for TEA, then that would really help.

Cheers!


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Sam Wright
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Posted: 25th Aug 2004 19:52
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Heres the original paper on it :

Complete with 5 line source...


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eat much pie
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Posted: 25th Aug 2004 22:54
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Excellent! Now all I need to do is try to understand what this code means ...

1) what is a "long" data type? Is it a "word"?

2) what does the * symbol represent here: long* v

3) What's the DBPro equivilent of an unsigned long?

4) what does the following mean? -->

Actually, there's quite a lot there for me to learn. To save us all time, is it possible to port this code into DBPro?

Encode:



Decode:


Cheers!


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Sam Wright
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Posted: 25th Aug 2004 23:33
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1) Long is 4 bytes. A word is 2 bytes
2) It means a pointer to a long variable
3) DWORD
4) It should actually be n-- > 0 (decrease n while its > 0)

As for porting - it could probably be done...


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eat much pie
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Posted: 26th Aug 2004 01:47 Edited at: 26th Aug 2004 01:48
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Cheers TCA. However...

unsigned long y=v[0]

I know that the first part means:
dword y
But then I don't know what v[0] means. Does it mean the pointer to v? Or the first character of the string at the pointer v?

If so, then I'll need to know the pointer to the string. The only way I can see doing this in DBPro is to convert the string into bytes (ascii), then put them into a memblock, then pass the pointer of the memblock as v when calling the function; then doing something like:

dword y = memblock byte(1,0)
dword z = memblock byte(1,1)

Would that be correct?


Also, what does this mean: +=

and this: (z<<4)

Cheers!


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Posted: 26th Aug 2004 02:19
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Quote: "But then I don't know what v[0] means. Does it mean the pointer to v? Or the first character of the string at the pointer v?"

v[0] is the first element of array v.

Quote: "Also, what does this mean: +=

and this: (z<<4)
"

x += 3 is the same as x=x+3
z<<4 means to shift the bits of z right 4 times (check the DBPro bitwise opperators for this).
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eat much pie
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Posted: 26th Aug 2004 02:26
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Cheers GothOtaku! But wouldn't the "z<<4" thing make them shift left (seeing how they're pointing to the left).


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Posted: 26th Aug 2004 02:32
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Oops! Yep....
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Posted: 26th Aug 2004 02:57
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lol, I did a post with a dbpro encode/decode routine, see if you can find it , if you do and you think it isn`t secure enough then I could tweak it for more security.

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Mussi
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Posted: 26th Aug 2004 03:03
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Quote: "Cheers GothOtaku! But wouldn't the "z<<4" thing make them shift left (seeing how they're pointing to the left)."


z<<4 equals z*4*4



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eat much pie
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Posted: 26th Aug 2004 07:16
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Alright, this is just riddiculous. I've decided to make my own encryption algorithm. I'll take the principles of the TEA algorithm and add it to other principles. Does anyone know of any places where I can read about encryption algorithmss? (online , that is. I'm not walking all the way down to the library)


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Sam Wright
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Posted: 26th Aug 2004 07:29
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Eat Much Pie, there have been similar threads to this before.The ppl here are damn fine game hackers and programmers, but knowledgeable crackers/cryptanalysts?

What are you trying to protect, from whom, and for how long?
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Kevin Picone
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Posted: 26th Aug 2004 14:12 Edited at: 23rd Aug 2010 01:07
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That's a good point. Although there's certainly people around here that come form the darker side (cough, couldn't resist a bad pun!) of programming. But they're few and far between.

Are you trying to protect text/data or what ?


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eat much pie
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Posted: 26th Aug 2004 18:59
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I'm trying to encrypt data files that I'm going to use to transmit data (such as e-mails, usernames, passwords, etc.) for Checkpoint Router.

I've been searching around for some examples of ecryption code, but haven't found what I'm looking for. I'd like to know the different ways in which I can encrypt data.

If anyone has any links to good sites for explaining the different forms of encryption, then could you post them here please.

Cheers!


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flibX0r
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Posted: 26th Aug 2004 21:25
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Should look into the Vernam cipher, particularly as a One Time Pad. Mathematically proven to be unbreakable, as it would be easier to just think of every possible solution as opposed to decrypting it.


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Posted: 26th Aug 2004 23:26
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Vernam type ciphers are unsuitable in this situation, as these require the distribution of the 'key' to the trusted parties who will receive the ciphertext. Though the one time pad is unbreakable, who needs to break anything when you've just handed them the key?

By the looks of it you're interested in something called 'Public Key Cryptography'. Ever heard of PGP or RSA? These use public key methods. Google will return a large number of hits but just for starters try http://www.faqs.org/faqs/cryptography-faq/part06/

I'd think twice about writing your own prog as there's lots of pitfalls to avoid, but if you're going to write your own program forget using DB, it wasn't designed for speedy bit-twiddling. Most progs you'll find are written in C as this is good'n'fast for bit manipulation.
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