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Geek Culture / creating a major, best selling, game

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Mentor
22
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Joined: 27th Aug 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 27th Aug 2004 21:34
its so easy, and you don`t even have to check for any graphics or memory availability, nor do anything other than set sync rate to 40 to get the correct game speed, no movement scaleing or anything.
<tongue in cheek> heres how to go about it

get yourself a 64bit 4ghz development machine with lots of ram and a realtime rendercard attached, when making the game put all the effects you want in, add in huge amounts of detail to hide the lack of actual gameplay

in the system specs specify 3.0 ghzcpu or higher, dx10 and nv40 or higher video cards, 512mb video ram, 2gb system ram and 100gig free hardrive minimum

call the Game Doom4

et`voila, no need to check for anything, if it won`t run then tell the user they don`t meet system requirements.

yes this is a sarcastic post, Doom3 was OK-ish, but only the effects impressed me, and most of the flame/smoke effects where nothing that hadn`t been done before, the heat shimmer shader is old hat, as is bumpmapping, and for what it was worth the extra detail on the models wasn`t that awesome, most of the time I didn`t realy notice it (apart from the annoying teeth in the models mouths when they spoke, whats with these guys? no toothpaste on mars?).

And can anyone say "obvious scripted sequences"? ,I was not impressed at all, I am now convinced that the waiting for Doom3 was purely down to Carmac waiting for Lee to finish the bugweek so he could finish the code off, bet if you used reshack on the doom exe you`d find a yellow pyramid icon in there .

To be honest I have NO idea why it took them so long to make, I was realy looking forwards to it, but Carmack has convinced me that like all people who get famous, they start beleiving the publicty of their own followers and stop trying, or lose their way in trivia that makes no difference to the actual qualiy of the game.

Oh well, I just hope that Halflife II is better (most sequels have been poor so far, and Farcry started off ok, but rapidly sank into silly/tedious, as did Unreal II)

thats not to say it`s not a decent game, but it`s way below what I expected from ID after the jump from doom/quake to quake II, I expected much more than we got, knowing how to code a little I see lots of missed opportunities, maybe next time.

Mentor.

PC1: P4 3ghz, 1gig mem, 2x160gig hd`s, Radeon 9800pro w cooler (3rd gfx card), 6 way speakers.
PC2: AMD 2ghz, 512mb ram, FX5200 ultra, 16 bit SB.
Mini ATX cases suck.
flibX0r
21
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Joined: 14th Feb 2003
Location: Western Australia
Posted: 27th Aug 2004 21:46
Quote: "To be honest I have NO idea why it took them so long to make"


Something to do with [Almighty] Carmack recoding the engine.

Quote: "Oh well, I just hope that Halflife II is better (most sequels have been poor so far, and Farcry started off ok, but rapidly sank into silly/tedious, as did Unreal II)"


And the original UT is still better than UT2003 and 2004



I agree, but its not that easy to do. I do agree though, and in fact I would love to see a game that was a cool as Quake 2.

Really, its up to us to put something new and original into the game market, something that gives you that warm fuzzy feeling inside that you only get from those unique and special games (If you have no idea what i'm on about, go play Wolfenstein 3D and get to the part where Hitler comes out in a power-suit, or just anything in Half Life, or chainsaws or the bfg in doom)

Anyone else up for the challenge?


http://www.jellystudios.tk
Current Project: Cube3 Arena (TGC Compo Entry)
Mnemonix
21
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Joined: 2nd Dec 2002
Location: Skaro
Posted: 27th Aug 2004 22:18
Doom did have the story of Doom3. It was in the manual

The 3d chat is coming...
In the meantime, come in the IRC. Ask me for details!!.
flibX0r
21
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Joined: 14th Feb 2003
Location: Western Australia
Posted: 27th Aug 2004 22:38
burnhard, the link below your location on the left that says "Edit Post" does exactly what it says. Make it your new best friend


http://www.jellystudios.tk
Current Project: Cube3 Arena (TGC Compo Entry)
Ian T
22
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Joined: 12th Sep 2002
Location: Around
Posted: 27th Aug 2004 23:19
Here's what I thought was truly ridiculous about Doom 3: The NPCs looked utterly, totally fake. I mean, beyond barbie doll fake, it was more like some psycadelic dream of everyone's faces turning into melting plastic. A year earlier Unreal 2 had NPCs that looked 5x better. Jeez, id, you're supposed to be a professional design company... IMHO Carmack should ditch his art team...

flibX0r
21
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Joined: 14th Feb 2003
Location: Western Australia
Posted: 27th Aug 2004 23:31
Yeah, I mean he wrote this wiked 3d engine, and then made a not so good game with it. Only reason I actually bought the game was to mod it, and I haven't even tried yet


http://www.jellystudios.tk
Current Project: Cube3 Arena (TGC Compo Entry)
flibX0r
21
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Joined: 14th Feb 2003
Location: Western Australia
Posted: 27th Aug 2004 23:35
Aw, thanks, i think


http://www.jellystudios.tk
Current Project: Cube3 Arena (TGC Compo Entry)
Van B
Moderator
21
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Joined: 8th Oct 2002
Location: Sunnyvale
Posted: 28th Aug 2004 01:22
I quite like it, but I'm expecting Half-Life2 to trounce it, just like Half Life trounced Quake2. The gameplay for me is not like Doom at all, you have to think about it more, whereas in the original you'd strafe while firing the minigun and take out dozens of enemies, your lucky if you get 3 in the same area in D3.

Unreal2's plot was just embarassing, the dialogue was dialobolical! - ''You said I should choose someone to trust Vin *sorry - John* I chooo-chooo-choooose you!!'' Bleagh - I only persevered with it on the co-op mode.

I quite liked Halo's storyline - Nov 9th should be a good day.


Van-B


Muhahahahaha.
Ian T
22
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Location: Around
Posted: 28th Aug 2004 01:40
I wasn't defending Unreal 2's story, but pointing out how much Doom 3's NPCs sucked ...

Another thing that annoys me is how it keeps getting credited for originality when I have yet to see an original thing in that game. Log files/PDA? System Shock 2... wall-mounted health kits? Half-Life... Creepy visions while wandering around an increasingly more organic sci-fi theme? SS2 again... ammo count displayed on guns? Unreal Tournament... plot? Doom, recycled... enemies? Doom, recycled... weapons? Doom, recycled...

Gah!

Half-Life 2 will definatly kick its ass, and Halo 2 will also... I think the real fun competition will be between those two games. I'm personally going to get both and probably love both.

(If I ever get a PC good enough to play them)

Kevin Picone
22
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Location: Australia
Posted: 28th Aug 2004 02:00
Van:

Quote: "Nov 9th should be a good day"


ahh how lovely, you remembered my birthday ..

Kevin Picone
[url]www.underwaredesign.com[/url]
Play Nice! Play Basic V2.21 (Out Now!)
Mentor
22
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Joined: 27th Aug 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 28th Aug 2004 02:21
yeah, there where lots of sections that smacked of "pinch this idea theyll never notice", like transporting across a reactor core in a deep shaft? I thought I had strayed into Halflife, and why the urgency to get rid of the bodies?, the scenery didn`t look complex enough to demand that NPC`s had to be erased before they stopped dying their ragdoll deaths.
Compared to Unreal II I don`t see where the big improvement was, I would have more impressed if we could have had the doors wedged open with half a dozen bodies you had to climb over for example, with flowing liquids and fires that spread and exploded stuff realisticaly, and why no deformable scenery?, seems like since Goldeneye nobody has managed to do this for a big release, and they made a big deal about Doom3 recalculating vis tables in realtime?, why?, I don`t see where all the supposed work went to be honest (apart from some of the detail), I just don`t get what happened to Doom3, but it was disapointing.

Mentor.

PC1: P4 3ghz, 1gig mem, 2x160gig hd`s, Radeon 9800pro w cooler (3rd gfx card), 6 way speakers.
PC2: AMD 2ghz, 512mb ram, FX5200 ultra, 16 bit SB.
Mini ATX cases suck.
The Videogameaholic
20
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Joined: 20th Jul 2004
Location: Blackfield Asylum
Posted: 28th Aug 2004 14:04
Doom 3 is pretty much a Tech Demo. It's sole purpose is to show off Carmack's latest "wiked" engine, so that other game companies can see what it could do and liscense it for their own projects.

RMPVG (Real Men Play Video Games)
Mentor
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Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 28th Aug 2004 22:22
the problem being it looks poor beside the FarCry Crytek engine, OK so the plot in Farcry was just as bad as the Doom plot, but the Farcry not only played better but was open in where you could go and nowhere near as demanding as the Doom engine re system specs.
the Doom engine on the other hand is very much linear in the gameplay, so linear I think it must be a limitation of the engine, you can sum up the gameplay pretty much by "go down passage, kill monsters in room, open door other side, go down passage ....etc" there wasnt realy anywhere to explore, and the in game physics engine was pretty limited, plus a lot of the game was scripted sequences and the player/NPC interaction was pointless, I ended up shooting the idiots for something to do, plus you sometimes got a free PDA out of it .
as a tech demo Doom stinks, Farcry or Unreal II/Tournament 2004 are just as competent an engine as Doom and with some tweaks probably better, I don`t see where the work went to be honest, if Carmack realy is the God of 3D engines then he`s keeping something back, either that or he`s lost it ("it" being the ability to innovate)
The only conclusion I can come to is that maybe he wanted to repeat his old upgrade/innovation path, and intends Quake 4 to be the step up from Doom3 that Quake II originaly was from Doom, it`s a slim hope, but all I can offer.
as for the mighty Carmac re-writing the engine, why?, it`s just Return to castle Wolfenstien with shaders and one signifcant effect, but lacking the level design, why would he need to re-write it?, I can`t see that anything in Doom3 either in the demos from the early or later stages is any different, I do know they dropped some features, but why they needed a re-write puzzles me, oh well, maybe someone will interview Id and we will get to know.

Mentor.

PC1: P4 3ghz, 1gig mem, 2x160gig hd`s, Radeon 9800pro w cooler (3rd gfx card), 6 way speakers.
PC2: AMD 2ghz, 512mb ram, FX5200 ultra, 16 bit SB.
Mini ATX cases suck.
JeBuS
20
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Joined: 20th Jul 2004
Location: Undisclosed Location, Dominion of JeBuS
Posted: 28th Aug 2004 22:33
Doom3 is a tech demo meant to sell the engine. 'Nuff said.
Fallout
22
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Location: Basingstoke, England
Posted: 28th Aug 2004 23:06
Doom 3 is a good game. It's the only game sinse the original alone in the dark that has actually scared me (and I was about 12 when I played alone in the dark - now I'm 23). I don't get creeped out by movies at all really, but Doom 3 definitely got me on edge for the first couple of hours. No other game has done that for me - resident evil etc etc. have no effect.

I think it deserves respect for that. It's a horror game. That's it's originality point, because it actually is creapy at the beginning at least.

flibX0r
21
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Location: Western Australia
Posted: 28th Aug 2004 23:34
Quote: "if Carmack realy is the God of 3D engines then he`s keeping something back, either that or he`s lost it ("it" being the ability to innovate)"


He wrote the engine, not the game. Although it has always been his philosophy that a storyline isn't necessary. True quote:

Quote: "A storyline in a game is like a storyline in a porn movie, you expect it to be there but its not actually necessary"



http://www.jellystudios.tk
Current Project: Cube3 Arena (TGC Compo Entry)
Ian T
22
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Posted: 29th Aug 2004 00:58
He's obviously never played a really good game

flibX0r
21
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Location: Western Australia
Posted: 29th Aug 2004 01:07
I doubt he needs to worry about it though, he makes absolute sh*tloads just off royalties for his engines.


http://www.jellystudios.tk
Current Project: Cube3 Arena (TGC Compo Entry)

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