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Geek Culture / Sorry Another Doom 3 Post

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Everwhat Studios
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2004 07:13 Edited at: 3rd Sep 2004 07:14
Hi Guys. Sorry Just had to quickly pop in and state some confusion I remember Rich posting a while back that he couldn't get Doom 3 running smoothly, and from what I remember he's got a pretty gutsy PC and GFX card.

I presumed that my PC wouldn't run it, so I haven't bought or tried it yet. But I just borrowed a copy from a friend to test and for a laugh, tried it on a (low spec) work computer. Its AMD1800+ with 375Mb Ram and a GF440MX/64. Initially it didn'twork, but after upgrading drivers, amazingly it loaded. Even more amazingly, its looking great and running smoothly! Not quite sure how thats possible, but woohoo! Almost all effects are off automatically, but other than that I've noticed no significant slow-down or jerking

Can't wait to get it home and try it on my 2.66 FX5200/128 . I was convinced it wouldn't work, but seemingly it should cane it! Not quite the desperately high specs I imagined Wonder why others can't get it working?

[edit btw I cracked it cos the CD checking/loading was too slow - maybe that helps?)

Cheers, Sam

"What's Luda smirking at? If Time Gal doesn't succeed, Luda will be laughing hysterically. That would be tragic. No smorking."
OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2004 07:16
Even with the CD checking removed, I found it very slow to start up...


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JoelJ
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2004 07:18
loading times are SOOOOOO long

GothOtaku
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2004 07:25
Really? I never had a problem with loading...

Oh, this might've done it for me. I changed my DoomConfig.cfg to include these lines. They're around line 100 or so.

seta image_useCache "1"
seta image_cacheMegs "512"
seta image_cacheMinK "20480"
OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2004 07:28
Must admit I never bothered to change mine - didn't keep it long enough


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Mnemonix
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2004 10:43
I have quite fast loading and start up times.

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2004 17:09
The strange this is, the first time each day it would take ages (a good 5 minutes, especially on the laptop). Then, if you exit the game and re-load it, it would be practically instant...


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GothOtaku
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Posted: 4th Sep 2004 00:24
Yes, that'll happen with almost any program because all the data is still in memory. Try it with Word, it'll do the same.
OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 4th Sep 2004 00:30 Edited at: 4th Sep 2004 00:31
No, thats the only program that does - all others are equally quick at any time.

Besides if part of Doom 3 is still in memory (even if its cached - which is doubtful), it could cause memory problems - as soon as you exit, its should release everything else back to the OS.


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Ian T
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Posted: 4th Sep 2004 00:32
It's id's job to make sure people don't have to mess with their config files, especially with a development time that long. This has gotta be damaging sales. I sure hope Valve learns from id's mistake here...

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Posted: 4th Sep 2004 00:33
Quote: "I sure hope Valve learns from id's mistake here"

Oooh look - I see a flying pig...


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Mnemonix
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Posted: 4th Sep 2004 00:47
lol

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 4th Sep 2004 00:57
Doom3 is because of decompression, remember the manual says it requires 500MB HDD SwapFile? yeah it don't get rid of that until you reboot.
So it doesn't have to sit there decompressing the things it needs for the menu, if you notice your actual game loading time is always annoyingly long.

Quote: "It's id's job to make sure people don't have to mess with their config files"


I've run Doom3 on about 4 system builds now, although the edits help speed things up... i've not seen anything close to what people are claiming it does.
FPS usually rose by 5 max, and loading times were still horribly long.

Face it when a 3.2GHz OC FX-53 Processor running on 64-bit Windows takes 3minutes to load up the game from cold, it doesn't matter what sodding optimising you do ... it ain't gonna get any quicker.

Quote: "I sure hope Valve learns from id's mistake here..."


::coughSourcerunsGeforceFXinDx8insteadofDx9modecough::
I believe i see that same pig TCA did ^_^


Van B
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Posted: 4th Sep 2004 01:11
I did'nt think the load times were so bad, I'm used to long waits because I play a lot of Battlefield, but Doom3 seemed reasonable to me - even when playing on my bro's drive via our network. What annoyed me more was the jerky startup, like everything crawls while the media is catching up - surely it would be better to load everything neatly then start the game at full pelt.

The slowest loading game I've ever seen was Soldier of Fortune on the Dreamcast, that was just incredibly slow at loading levels - you could be sitting for 10-15 minutes. I haven't suffered like that since the 8-bit tape loading days.


Van-B


Muhahahahaha.
Ian T
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Posted: 4th Sep 2004 01:22
Quote: "I believe i see that same pig TCA did ^_^"


Seeing as you're both nvidia and id fanboys over ati and valve, somehow i'm not surprised

Mnemonix
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Posted: 4th Sep 2004 01:40
I have a pagefile of over 1gig on a seperate partition, perhaps that could have contributed to the load up time .

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Fallout
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Posted: 4th Sep 2004 03:01
Same here. Loading times didn't seem particularly bad. No where near 3 mins. Always under 1 minute. I'd say under 30 seconds as well. Definitely not something that occured to me to be out of the ordinary.

OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 4th Sep 2004 03:09
Quote: "Seeing as you're both nvidia and id fanboys over ati and valve, somehow i'm not surprised "

And what do you base that supposition on ?


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Eric T
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Posted: 4th Sep 2004 03:43
I never had much trouble with Doom 3 loading times. 1 minute max, on XP prfessional (so no 64-bit boost). It is just BF1942 that loads slowly. Takes all night to do that. Even on my specs... it takes a day and a half, which makes me angry.

I never edited my config files, and i don't plan to. I had 60FPS through out the whole game while on Medium 1024x768. I ain't gonna bitch about that, and the only reason i didn't have it on High 800x600 is because i wanted to keep my system nice and cool.

Also had Anti-Aliasing 4x on the whole time.

So, in order for the "3 minute" loading times that you guys bitch about, you would have to have 1 damn slow HD... or a full out POS PC.

Eric

Specs: AMD 64bit 3200+, Gigabyte GA-K8NS Pro motherboard, ATI Radeon 9600XT 128mb, 120GB Maxtor 7200RPM, 17 inch flat screen, and 1.5 MBIT

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 6th Sep 2004 16:01 Edited at: 6th Sep 2004 16:06
type in: Doom3.exe +map em1dm1.map
on my system (which my brother has nicked) from a COLD boot-up not a preloaded one, it will takes 45seconds to load the menu system & game, it will then flick to the console and preload/cache textures which will take a further 15-20seconds and finally load that level up which will take around a minute.

I'm not saying the loading times are bad, far far from it.
What I'm talking about are people claiming these optimisations work wonders, when really they don't.

Getting into the game from a cold start for Doom3 in under 3minutes is impressive as hell considering your talking about loading almost 740MB of data (Ultra Settings)

Moving from one area to another is almost identical loading times to Half-Life was on the power houses of it's day. The game is already pretty damn well optimised... and all the tricks in the world don't help much.

You want a game that loads painfully slowely play Max Payne 2 on the PS2; I was waiting what, 6-7minutes for each area.
I got so damn bored, especially considering it's a console title.

Quote: "Oh do shutup you know nvidia is best at opengl whereas ati are best at directx so stop your moaning."


Actually it wasn't a dig at the speed difference, from what I've seen the 6-Series keeps within 3-7fps of the equivilent Radeon X-Series (keyword *equivilent*).
What it is a dig as it the fact that the Image Quality is VERY noticeably different, i mean you'd have to be blind to see there being no difference between the cards.
With the FX-Series alright running in DirectX8.1 mode is acceptable, but the 6-Series... sorry but that is taking the f**king biscuit.

I don't give a damn if a Radeon user has a slight faster gameplay at 1600x1024x32, what i do danm well care about is the card i've just spent £350 on which has next generation technology being forced to run in a render-pipeline that lowers the Image Quality.
That just ain't right!


Rob K
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Posted: 6th Sep 2004 19:29 Edited at: 6th Sep 2004 19:30
Just finished building my new Doom-3 capable PC:

AMD Athlon 64 XP3000+
Radeon 9700 Pro
1GB DDR-400 RAM
120GB Samsung HDD
nForce 3 Motherboard

Runs Doom 3 on High Detail/1024x768 (all effects enabled) at 30FPS or so (That's with the cache tweak)

I upgraded from a P4 1.5Ghz / 512MB RAM machine (cost about £400)

Boy does it look good - much better animated than in the screenshots.


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Posted: 7th Sep 2004 03:23
The A64 are very nice processors...


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Fallout
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Posted: 7th Sep 2004 03:34
Quote: "Getting into the game from a cold start for Doom3 in under 3minutes is impressive as hell considering your talking about loading almost 740MB of data (Ultra Settings)"


It depends how much RAM you have. If you have 740MB of RAM free, considing modern harddisks have a burst transfer of between 100 and 150MB/s, 3 minutes averages 4MB/S, which is slower than your nans typewriter.

Not good stats, young jedi!

Three Score
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Posted: 7th Sep 2004 03:42
remeber that you must load it off of your hdd
by the way which one is faster pc 2100 or pc 133
by the way by the way about how fast is a 5000rpm hdd with 2mb cache, a 7200rpm 8mb cache,7200rpm 4mb cache, and 9400rpm 16mb cache (all in mb/s)
so i know how fast all my hdd's are

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Fallout
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Posted: 7th Sep 2004 03:52 Edited at: 7th Sep 2004 03:54
Cache means nothing unless you're accessing the same data more than once. If you are reaccessing some data you accessed previously, then the more cache you have, the more likely that data is to be in cache and the quicker it will be retrieved (EDIT: Although HDs use read-ahead and load whole blocks of data into cache, rather than just grabbing the byte you're after, so in that respect, cache offers storage space for more blocks of read-ahead)

You also need to consider the DMA mode (and which ones your mother board supports) and the Access/Seek Time, which is how long the harddisk takes to move its heads to the correct track. The lower the access time, the better.

There's no way you can calculate the speed of your HDs from that though. It also depends on how fragmented your data is, and what type of file allocation table you are using, and whether the HD data is compressed, and whether you have partitions.

Everwhat Studios
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Posted: 7th Sep 2004 03:53 Edited at: 7th Sep 2004 03:58
Hey After a few days of random playing I can confirm its a v cool game, (although I wish it'd dispense wiht the slooow start and chuck you right in at the deepend, ALA Doom 1.9 ) Much to my surprise, it runs fine on both my PCs, neither of which are that great

Mind you, it confuses me somewhat that my better PC gets a better framerate, but jerks when opening doors, whereas my rubbish PC runs at a slightly lower frame rate, but very evenly. Perhaps a difference in how the 2 cpus work (AMD1800 & P4 2.66) Both use XP.

The loading times are relatively horendous between levels though, so I'll just have to search google for a "godmode" style cheat [EDIT] Lol "God" and "Give All" Nice and simple

"What's Luda smirking at? If Time Gal doesn't succeed, Luda will be laughing hysterically. That would be tragic. No smorking."
Rob K
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Posted: 7th Sep 2004 05:07 Edited at: 7th Sep 2004 05:08
The Doom 3 auto-detect seems to make a lot of mistakes. It detected 64MB of video memory instead of 128, and some of the settings were ones for 256MB cards (which is your absolute top-end limit).

Doom 3 has some pretty hefty optimisations though, turn portals (a way of hiding stuff which is hidden behind walls) off, and the game goes from 30FPS to 1FPS! - Consider that with the exception of BSP-games, current DBPro games don't use any kind of occlusion culling (eg: portals) whatsoever.

Turning shadows on or off makes a significant difference (5-10FPS), but it just doesn't look so nice without.

Oddly the feature which really makes the game, normal-mapping, has very little impact on speed at all.


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Everwhat Studios
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Posted: 8th Sep 2004 05:27
Yes it does seem very nicely optimised, especially as Far Cry and Halo struggle on my top end PC whereas Doom 3 even looks great on my low end one Yet to try Pain killer though. (My last PC game b4 that was Vice City and that is smooth as silk )

"What's Luda smirking at? If Time Gal doesn't succeed, Luda will be laughing hysterically. That would be tragic. No smorking."
Killswitch
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Posted: 8th Sep 2004 07:12
Hey my GeForce 5200 is great with Doom 3!! Well I do have it on medium but nuts to that its a tonn better than my slower-than-something-moving-really-fast-backwards-PC.

~It's a common mistake to make, the rules of the English langauge do not apply to insanity~
Three Score
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Posted: 8th Sep 2004 07:17
@everwhat
what do you mean halo struggles on your top-end pc
mine looks great on a geforce mx4000/64mb/pci with 384mb ram and intwl celeron 1.3ghz cpu and winxp home
and it works great although on a 32mb card i used to use(integrated into motherboard) it did suck

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Everwhat Studios
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Posted: 12th Sep 2004 06:06
Yeah Halo (Final Demo version) won't run very well at all... jerks all over the place on my 2.66Ghz P4 with 512Mb Ram and FX5200 and thats at low settings on everything. Figured it was bad, unoptimised programming. Far Cry is even worse, and it has to be said that visually DOOM3 kicks both of them for six (admittedly in smaller enclosed areas), and runs fine for me

(PS Sorry don't mean to keep bringing this back from the dead, but I only just noticed the replies )

"What's Luda smirking at? If Time Gal doesn't succeed, Luda will be laughing hysterically. That would be tragic. No smorking."
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 13th Sep 2004 23:57
Wonder why FarCry does that...
I play FarCry on my Celeron 1Ghz / 512MB PC133 / FX5200 64MB and it runs quite nicely on Medium Settings - 1024x768, about 25fps but still is quite nice and smooth.

Well apart from when i'm looking at the water, then it just crawls at 8fps. FarCry's optimisation is horrible though.
Generally speaking, I only like to play FarCry, Halo, Painkiller, Brothers of War on my decent system (which my brother STILL damn well has).

Doom3 runs nicely on here though, still some scenes do lag and it isn't because of polycounts or such but due to level design.
Some areas are poorly designed so they hog processor speed, so the game slugs in those areas... still need to just exhange my processor for something 1.5Ghz-ish, but P3/P4 of that speed are kinda expensive. Might be cheaper to throw away the mobo and cpu then go for an athlon mobo and cpu.

If you noticed on your FX5200s though, run the game at 1024x768xHigh (Full Options / No FSAA) - bring down the console ( Ctrl-Alt-Tidel) then type in game_showfps 1
now turn off all the options,
640x480xLow (No Options / No FSAA )

you'll notice you'll have like a 10fps difference, if that.
crazy i think, there are ways to optimise your routines to use NV21 routines, the game just flys using them and doesn't look as bad as NV30 routines with low graphics.


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Posted: 14th Sep 2004 03:37
Anyone know what Psyops is like ?


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Rob K
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Posted: 14th Sep 2004 05:07
Quote: "Doom3 runs nicely on here though, still some scenes do lag and it isn't because of polycounts or such but due to level design.
Some areas are poorly designed so they hog processor speed, so the game slugs in those areas... still need to just exhange my processor for something 1.5Ghz-ish, but P3/P4 of that speed are kinda expensive"


P1.5 is probably too slow, its Doom3 minimum-spec. I recommend an AMD XP, you can get those for only £100 or so.

It does have something to do with polycount - The only way that "poor design" could affect this is if the design was such that the portal system wasn't able to cull much.


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