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<qbot> 80 of 86 Question from adr : Not that I'm taking the piss here, but it seems every bit of functionality on top of DBP as it stands now is going into an expansion pack. Is that what you're terming improved functionality now, or are you actually going to charge us for anything beyond the current command set?

<Mike> the general plan is that upgrades will be released on a regular basis - these will include bug fixes and some new commands
<Mike> but for the main part new commands are coming in expansion packs
[/quote]

That was a deadly serious question perhaps phrase in a slightly jokey way. I don't mind encryption, file, network, 3D maths helpers and physics expansion packs. They are external to what I would consider core to the language. There's nothing there that someone couldn't write themselves with enough time and talent and TGC would simply be saving us time and angst; which is fair enough.

However,

If I see a "pointer support pack", "vertex access pack", "actual working shadows pack" for sale I promise you I will flip out. Now, that won't be amazingly terrifying for you I'm sure. Perhaps I'll chuck some stuff about my house and slam some doors, but needless to say I will be one unhappy-chappy.

Can you see the distinction I'm making here, TGC? Certain stuff you expect to be part of the language you've paid for. Now it's all very well saying "DBP will continue to be improved upon" and I beleive you. But if it's going to cost me £60 ontop of the initial purchase just to kit myself out with a decent command set.... well... I've said what I'm gonna say. So go for it TGC - allay my fears.

All that said... the following did make me laugh:

<qbot> 91 of 100 Question from el_goorf : WTF is LARGE?
<Mike> LARGE
<Mike> !nextq

I think Mike made it quite clear : Any new commands are in an expansion pack (which may or may not be free), and all bug-fixes/updates are not (and which will be free).

My quizzle was not about the ambiguity of his reply... It was about the processes that TGC go through to decide wether something should be free or not.

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edit :

Summary: Stuff that can't be acheived outside the TGC employee's workstations (terrain & shadows for example) should be free. If you're not going to technically open up DBP for community development, then don't charge us for that decision.

For example, People can code their own terrain texture generation systems, or use others online. Or at worst, someone in the community can make one. However, no-one in the community could've made the basic terrain pack that is available for free now.

Why should anything not produced by Mike & Lee be free ? The people who do the plug-in may want to get some renumeration from their hard work (I certainly wanted that sort of thing with my BASS interface).

It's pretty straight forward: If it's an enhancement to a current command-set or feature, or a straight bug-fix or compiler optimisation, then it's free.

If it extends DBPro beyond what it can currently do (terrain plus, enhancement pack, etc) then it can be evaluated for possible sale.

That sounds completely fair to me. I for one would be willing to buy an expansion pack that is going to give more functions, or even give shortcuts to existing features. I would still love to see an easy to use shader program or an extension of DBpro itself.

That's exactly what I wanted to hear - that's pretty much what I said about expanding beyond the core expectations of a 3d language...



I meant stuff that TGC release, that the community could do with a bit of hard work, should be free. I don't mind what the community charges But that "rule" doesn't necessarily work. I'm concerned that because there are certain aspects of DBP's engine that can't be modified/expanded upon by the community, TGC have us over a barrel on certain points.

Well in reality unless the project is open source and you want it to improve in any way, the developers have you over a barrel period. Unless you've got something to blackmail them with, that is .

We'll just have to see... I was a bit worried about lightmapping supposedly coming out in an expansion pack, ditto per-pixel lighting, but those were certainly not things promised on the box so if they do, that's okay. Also remember that there might be free versions of the expansion packs. The free advanced terrain pack certainly makes up for the br0ked LOD terrain many times over.