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Newcomers DBPro Corner / DarkBasic Pro Performance Questions - Is it fast enough?

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Memory Leak
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Posted: 16th Sep 2004 11:10
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**I've search around the forums and found bits and pieces of information to answer my question, but I'm looking for a more direct answer, so I apologize ahead of time if such questions have already been asked.

Dark Basic is an interesting programming package (Can I even call it a programming package? correct me if there is a better term please ) and from what I've seen so far, it is very well done. However, before purchasing it I am interested in some technical specs I still can't seem to find an answer too.

Are the 2D drawing commands reasonably quick? I've noticed flickering and some pretty slow draw rates when I have played around with basic 2D commands to grab user input, display text and shapes, bitmaps, etc. Yes, the sync rates are fine etc, etc. I assume when I am running my programs in the IDE they are being interpreted and thus explains the performance hits. Yet I am curious if anyone in the community has written a quick little benchmark program to show the speed of the language when it has been compiled into an executable. I am also concerned over a post I found where someone noticed that 2D games written using the 3D commands ran faster than a 2D game written with the 2D commands. Having written 2D games in C++ and VB that seems quite bizarre to me.
I have not played around with the 3D side of the language yet so if there are any performance issues found within those commands that someone could point out to me I would appreciate that too.

I'm just trying to decide if this is the right programming package/language to use to create games in my spare time without concerning myself with all the details of directX and I think it would be fun to write some programs to solve some engineering problems for school. Little multimedia things nothing big, I know that's why they taught me C++ to crunch numbers with, . Just looking for the right tool. I'd appreciate any responses.

**Sorry for the long post.
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Don Malone
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Posted: 16th Sep 2004 12:25 Edited at: 16th Sep 2004 12:27
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Darkbasic was designed (it seems) for 3D graphics/game programming and 2D was a secondary concern.

2D speed seems (acording to other posts) to lag unless you do work arounds and program in psudo-2D or using work arounds to keep the speed up. Saying that, there are several 2D games on the web site...
http://darkbasicpro.thegamecreators.com/?gf=retro_entries
... that show what can be done. You might also want to ask in the 2D game programming forum on this site.

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_read&i=4

and I think the correct name is programming language as it does not include the ability to create content included with the package but many resources are available to do that (many free) seperate from the program language.

Wasting CPU Cycles since the 286 was a hot machine.
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Memory Leak
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Posted: 16th Sep 2004 21:26
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Thanx for the response DBoy, I think I'll still give it a shot. At least from my perspective the language looks like a great prototyping language. Much better and quicker than VB using directX and good for throwing together some quick games without getting deep into directX and C/C++. Still I would use it mostly for 3D anyways, I was just curious why the 2D lagged in speed thats all.
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IanM
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Posted: 17th Sep 2004 03:34
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2D isn't as fast as it could be, but I think it can be faster than you are getting.

Put this at the top of your program:
SYNC ON
SYNC RATE 0

and put this in your main loop when you want the display to be updated:
SYNC

You should see a big improvement.

*** Coming soon - Network Plug-in - Check my site for info ***
For free Plug-ins, source and the Interface library for Visual C++ 6, .NET and now for Dev-C++ http://www.matrix1.demon.co.uk
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Memory Leak
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Posted: 17th Sep 2004 05:07
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I am aware of the code for setting the sync rate (not trying to be arrogant or anything), that isn't a problem I was just a little surprised that the 2D wasn't very fast but it is still acceptable for writing games. Like I said I'm a little spoiled coming from C++ and VB . Regardless, I am attracted to Dark basic because of its simplicity in dealing with directX, which makes for a great prototyping language and perhaps even one for creating small professional games. Yet I'm a little nervous about using it because of the posts I've read concerning bugs within the language. I've been writing a few benchmark programs to test the different drawing speeds and even how fast the core commands like the different loops can count to a given number such as 2,000,000 or 100,000,000. So far the loops seem rather slow, especially when game loops should be tight And yes I've seen the threads concerning the speeds of the different loops so I'll post my comments on them there.

So anyways thank you for your input on the subject and I'll continue trying out Dark basic. If anyone wishes to point out any really great features about this language I may have missed, please do! I'm very eager to adopt this language if it can indeed live up to the hype.
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the_winch
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Posted: 17th Sep 2004 05:21
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Also using LOCK PIXELS before a lot of 2d operations can make it quite a bit faster.

example


Pro isn't that slow for 2d if you use it correctly, pasting images and sprites are both more than fast enough for most game types.
I think the complaints you read where concerned with darkbasic classic where sprites are a lot slower than 3d planes. Dbpro uses a newer version of directx where sprites are 3d planes so there are not really and speed advantages using 3d planes over sprites.


it's cool to hate
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BatVink
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Posted: 17th Sep 2004 06:24
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Quote: "like the different loops can count to a given number such as 2,000,000 or 100,000,000"


This could be dependant on other things. For example, full screen exclusive mode will tie the program SYNC to the refresh rate of your monitor. FASTSYNC can also be used to stop DB releasing control back to windows.

It's like any language - you need to understand it's quirks to get the best out of it. Your VB experience will probably tell you exactly the same thing.

BatVink
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Memory Leak
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Posted: 17th Sep 2004 08:52
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That's true, you can pretty much do the same thing in any other language one might just take a hell of a lot longer than another (within exception I know, some languages just can't do certain things). I guess what I'm asking now is for a recommendation, would you recommend this language to an experienced programmer say intermediate level who does not want to get too bogged down with the gritty details of directX for the purpose of writing games (at least at the moment)? Dark basic looks like it's pretty good for this once, like you say BatVink, I get a feel for how it behaves. So, worth the purchase or not?

Sorry for all the questions, as a college student I don't have a lot of money to throw around, just making sure Dark basic is worth it
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Van B
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Posted: 17th Sep 2004 17:23
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The thing about DB is that it's actually fun to use (well most of the time) - I'm a VB developer, and after working in that all day, DB is like a little holiday. It's the best hobbyist language there is.


Van-B


Muhahahahaha.
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BatVink
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Posted: 17th Sep 2004 20:53
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Quote: "The thing about DB is that it's actually fun to use (well most of the time) - I'm a VB developer"


I second that. I program (most of the time) in good old "green on black". DB is a good way to get creative, without worrying about the technical gubbings behind the scenes.

BatVink
http://biglaugh.co.uk/catalog AMD 3000+ Barton, 512Mb Ram, 120 Gig Drive space, GeForce 5200 FX 128 Mb, Asus A7N8X Mobo.
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Memory Leak
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Posted: 17th Sep 2004 22:13
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Wonderful, well thank you for your responses guys I think you've convinced me that DB is worth it Yes, indeed it does seem like a little holiday after programming in C or VB. Hope to see you all around the forums, take care.
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Lascerus
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Posted: 20th Sep 2004 00:56
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Thanks for the post and the responses, I'm sold as well, even though i bought it last year i honestly have never used it...till the other day when I followed a tut and wrote an fps game engine. It seemed really easy...thanks for dbp...
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