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Geek Culture / My future in programing

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Underworld 1020
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Posted: 27th Sep 2004 09:10
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I was wondering if anyone could help me with some choices that I need to make. This year I'll be graduating from High School. I'm not supposed to graduate till next year, but why wait? I got just enough credits. I've been coding for about four or five years now, and I don't ever plan on stopping. I started out programing on the Ti-83 plus graphing caculator, and I made some really advanced games for it too. I then tried to learn C++, but It was too confusing at the time, I'll try it again someday. Then I learned alot in Visual Basic, but it wasn't what I wanted, I wanted to make video games. I made some basic games in VB like connect four, tic tac toe, pong. They all had an AI system and were two player compatible. I went to the store a found Dark Basic sitting there on a self, the cover was real nice, so I bought it not knowing that Db Pro was avaible for $40 more or so. I like it a lot and have been programing in it for over a year now. I made tons of Fps games, arcade style games and so forth. I was working on a Fps Creator project not to long ago, it was great until in read the newsletters and found out that their was already a Fps Creator in progress, I was very upset! My project let you create a 3d level from a 2d grid and then you inputed all your stats, fog effects, and then added your media. I stopped the project because its kinda worthless now.

My first question is should I try to get into the game making field?
My worry is that with all the new programs out like 3d gamemaker, fps creator, and stuff, will programing manually become outdated?
Thats why I'm not sure if I should go into the programing field.

My second question is what do I do after high school? I'll be graduating when I'm sixteen, but where do I go after that? Should I take online courses?, should I go to the military for free college?, get a loan and go to MCC one of the best community colleges there is for two years and then a real college. I'm not sure what I should do and what courses I'm supposed to take. I'm taking regents physics in high school because I think it'll help.

My third question is how much about would I get paid?

I'm working on starting a web site with a friend to put a whole load of are games on. I think it'll be cool to finally get my games to people!

So, basically I need advice on how to get started in the game making field. Some advice from people that are already doing it or working on it would be greatly appreciated!, thanks.
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BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 27th Sep 2004 09:14
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I'm not in the position to give much info, but here's some advice:

1. Learn C++, if there's a C++ course in high school don't graduate this year, take the C++ course and some extra fun class and graduate next year, get extra languages and stuff.

2. Get a degree in software engineering, this way you're not stuck being just a programmer, you get to design the system.

3. Go to igda.org, and look at the different newcomers sections, has some great career advice.

4. Go for it.

Crazy Donut Productions, Current Project: Project Starbuks
Sony stole our name!
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Underworld 1020
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Posted: 27th Sep 2004 10:04
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Thanks, for the advice!

They had a few courses on programing, but the school budget in New York is low and they all got cancelled. I took VB and had C++ next semester, but it got cancelled.

I'll try the site out!

any more advice, maybe a pro programer.
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Great Knight
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Posted: 27th Sep 2004 10:13 Edited at: 27th Sep 2004 10:14
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I am in college right now going for my computer science degree then try to get into the game making fields with my friend. If you want I can contact your yahoo name and help you learn C++ or Java.

Are you a leader or follower.
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Underworld 1020
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Posted: 27th Sep 2004 10:28
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Sure!

That would be great!
I'll check my email tommorow because I got to go right now.

Thanks!
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Zero Blitzt
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Posted: 27th Sep 2004 10:35
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I don't mean to be mean or anything, but make sure you have a backup plan, because I read somewhere that the games industry is getting harder to get into.


Come to #coding. We promise we wont kick you!
DISCLAIMER: Promises may not actually be upheld.
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Jeku
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Posted: 27th Sep 2004 16:34
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Here's a tip: If you want to work in the games industry as a programmer, drop DB and learn C++. Most, if not all, games are created in C++ using a shell like DirectX or OpenGL. Anybody with a logical mindset can learn it, it just takes lots of time. I have been using C++ for close to 8 years, and I'm still learning new ways to accomplish things.

If you want to get a foot in the industry, apply for a game tester (Quality Assurance) position. That's how I got into EA. During my first QA job at EA, they needed another programmer to help out, so they asked us game testers if we had any C++ programming knowledge--- before they had to resort to hiring outside the company. Luck fell into my lap, and there I was, my first month as a tester, being promoted to additional programming. Don't sell yourself short and good luck

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flibX0r
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Posted: 27th Sep 2004 17:23
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Quote: "My worry is that with all the new programs out like 3d gamemaker, fps creator, and stuff, will programing manually become outdated?"


No. Have you noticed that you can't actually make decent games with these tools? And you need programmers to make these tools. But no, the code monkeys will not die out, we will always be needed, and may god strike me down where I stand if it were otherwi...Uargh!


http://www.jellystudios.tk
Current Project: Cube3 Arena (TGC Compo Entry)
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Benjamin
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Posted: 27th Sep 2004 20:05
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lmao you crack me up flibby

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Underworld 1020
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Posted: 28th Sep 2004 00:22
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Thanks, for the advice guys!

For a backup plan theres not really that much. I can play electric guitar well, read notes and everything, I know alot about electronics, circuit boards, componets, wiring, computers, etc.

And for that game tester idea that sounds like a great job to begin with, getting paid for play, amazing! . But do you think that plan will always work, I'm mean what if I get stuck doing that, they can't get paid that much.

I'll try learning C++ again, but when I first tried it I bought a book and the program, but it was teaching me stuff that was unrelated to game programing, and I got bored of it, so I tried Db. Isn't Db Pro supposed to be cabable of creating Pro games, then why learn C++.

If I'm goning to learn C++ I want to learn how to make games in it.
Also, What should I do about college, what courses, etc.

Thanks for the advice!
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Underworld 1020
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Posted: 28th Sep 2004 01:06
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I was just looking at game testers jobs, it looks repetitive. I'm researching further...
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Underworld 1020
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Posted: 28th Sep 2004 01:16
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It looks good so far, I got to go!

here's where I found some good information from
http://www.sloperama.com/advice/lesson5.html

See Ya!
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Jess T
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Posted: 28th Sep 2004 01:28
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Under,
I'm in much the same situation you are now too

I will be finishing my Schooling years, and trudging off to Uni by the end of this year, and this have had to make some pretty sketchy choices lately to secure what I want to do.

Firstly, I researched all the local Uni's, and all their courses that they offer to do with Computer Science, Programming, Game Dev ( yes, there are game dev courses ).

I've just recently applied for the courses that took my fancy, and depending on my High School results, will get into the best one there is

I too do not know much C++, but that is what I am going to Uni to learn The good thing about DarkBASIC is that it is simple to make games, the bad thing about it is it is just that, BASIC. It's a hobbiest's language, not a proffesional developer's language ( but, it has the potential to make great things, all that is needed is the codeing skills ).

VB is good to know if you want to get into developing apps for buisnesses, such as custom DBMS's ( Database Management Systems ) or other custom things.

One thing that I have learnt is not too expect to be shot into Gave Dev straight away.
It IS a hard area to get into, and it is also a hard area to work in.
There are ALWAYS limitations on games ( due to publishers, target audience, etc etc etc ), which can inhibit your creativeness, and don't think that you'll become lead programmer who get's to do all the good programming, like the 3D engine etc, because to start with, you'll just be an extra that writes simple functions as they're needed, and if you're lucky, you may get to handle the character animation or something like that...
That's the harsh reality of it.

But, if you learn C++, pick your courses at Uni etc wisely, and pick and path and STICK WITH IT through thick and thin, then you should be able to get to where you want to go in the not-too-distant futur

Jess.


Team EOD :: Programmer/All-Round Nice Guy
Aust. Convention!
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GothOtaku
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Posted: 28th Sep 2004 01:36
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Some advice, go to a University NOT a small college (unless it's specialized for what you want to do) the main reason being that I've found bigger schools to have very good CS depts. as well as more people who want to be in the games industry . The last part is very important because the university I go to (University of Massachusetts - Amherst) has a game development club that has industry contacts. So any internships with game companies or QA offers usually get directed at us as soon as their available allowing us to use each other to get our foot in the door. Also, learn C++ or Java. Java is useless for making games (except maybe for 2D games on mobile devices) but most colleges teach it so the more you know going in the less you have to learn allowing you to devote more time to other persuits like learning C++ or Cg (the REAL game making languages). My friend knew Java and Assembly going into college and tested out of those classes allowing him to devote more to recreational programming.
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Peter H
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Posted: 28th Sep 2004 01:39
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honestly...programming is a hard job to get...you have to be very lucky...

why?

well there are plenty of perfectly good programmers in india and other places that will work for much less moeny then americans...

so it's getting harder to get a job with programming...

"We make the worst games in the universe."

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GothOtaku
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Posted: 28th Sep 2004 01:41 Edited at: 28th Sep 2004 01:45
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Quote: " honestly...programming is a hard job to get...you have to be very lucky...

why?

well there are plenty of perfectly good programmers in india and other places that will work for much less moeny then americans...

so it's getting harder to get a job with programming..."

Actually, the amount being paid to American CS graduates just went up and more are being hired. I don't know exactly why but those are the most recent stats I read.

Also, if you can't get into the games industry have a backup. Me, I currently have a job as a Matlab and Fortran programmer at a very respectable research institution which I can bank on if I can't find anything better.
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Mentor
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Posted: 28th Sep 2004 03:24 Edited at: 28th Sep 2004 03:28
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you could get yourself a copy of "game programing all in one", that will teach you about 2D games in directx and isn`t too difficult to follow, comes with a cd with dx8.1 sdk and some apps too, all you need is c++ or c++.net you just need to setup your project as they instruct you to in the c++.net manual then swap to following the book once you have it set up since it`s a different layout for c++.net in the ide`s setup stages, or get MS c++, it should be available cheap on E-bay since many folks are swapping to .net framework.

Mentor.

PC1: P4 3ghz, 1gig mem, 3x160gig hd`s, Radeon 9800pro w cooler (3rd gfx card), 6 way speakers.
PC2: AMD 2ghz, 512mb ram, FX5200 ultra, 16 bit SB.
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Underworld 1020
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Posted: 28th Sep 2004 08:49 Edited at: 28th Sep 2004 08:51
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I've been researching on the game tester job, and it doesn't sound that bad. I already do a little bit of debuging with my own games and programs, I use the print command with a small font and output all the main data on the screen, so I can see whats going on, and then I try to figure out why things are happening. So, it couldn't be that hard of a job. The only thing is do I really have to start out that low if I got a degrees and all that.

I really don't know a whole lot about college and the things they offer. So, what courses should I take. I wanted to start off at a small place because its cheaper, and don't you have to take like unwanted courses like health and stuff. So, I figured I get all the junk out of the way cheaply and then go to a bigger college for game development. Also, the small college is like half an hour away from where I live, so thats cool. I just noticed that theres a new "Mobile" section here and I just downloaded the trial. It looks easy, its says that it is basic Java language. Should I learn it, and one of the guys who posted here is goning to help me learn C++. So, I got a lot do know because this stuff is just adding to physics, math, tech courses from A-Z! , and other courses, plus my normal life.

So, what courses and stuff should I take in college and do I have to take the crap courses too (Health, etc.)? And should I learn the mobile (Java) thing, which shouldn't take that long. Also, is anybody a pro programer or lead programer. And how much do people in game development make?

Thanks, for the help!
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DrakeX
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Posted: 28th Sep 2004 10:19
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your school offers you the ability to take enough credits to graduate before you're a senior? wow... cool.

learn C++. seriously, it's not that hard. you tried to learn C++ before and said it was totally alien - well, try it again, and i'll bet it makes a LOT more sense now, even if the concepts it uses are pretty different from DB. i went from thinking C++ was totally unlearnable to using all sorts of crazy stuff like inheritance and templates and COM interfaces and how to use directx in a matter of two or three months. mind you, C++ was also the first language i tried to learn, and it didn't make ANY sense the first time.

i tell you what, those andypike.com DX8 tutorials really make it easy to start.. HINT HINT

finding a college that offers "game development" as a major is pretty difficult, and usually those that do are not "normal" colleges and thus do not have you take worthless things like phys ed, and health, and english (... ). i'd really recommend a tech college that focuses on tech rather than a "normal" college that has a "tech" program.

OK enough of that damn DBP fanboy banner. i'm NOT a DBP fanboy in any way. i haven't used DBP in over a year, and i don't really plan on using it again.
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Underworld 1020
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Posted: 30th Sep 2004 09:19
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My high school doesn't let you do that during just the regular school year, but you have to take summer courses. I took one every summer for 4 hours a day, for one month. The summer courses go a lot faster, but they take all the crap out and just teach you what you need. I took 11th grade english over this summer and all we did was watch movies of the books we were supposed to read, and theres no homework either.

I'll try those tutorials too, but I got that guy helping me now.

Theres a college called RIT, which is supposed to be a good tech school, I heard its like 20G a year, which all be paying on until the day I die!

So, tech schools don't make you take courses you don't want?

Thanks, guys
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Pazza
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I've recently started a games programming course at Hull uni (yes i'm from the UK) its a 3 year course and the 1st year is spent learning the basics and learning to program, then its going to get intresting in the second and third years. The first year is the same no matter what computer science degree you do so you can easily change degree program at the end of the first year and not be behind.

I have heard that its very hard to get into, but with enough hard work i'm confident i can get their.

"Bite my shiny metal ass!" - Bender
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Benjamin
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Posted: 1st Oct 2004 01:30
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Quote: "I can play electric guitar well"

First learn to play the first solo in the megadeth song 'in my darkest hour' then you can call yourself a good guitarist

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Underworld 1020
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Posted: 1st Oct 2004 07:00 Edited at: 1st Oct 2004 07:00
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What about any Metallica song ever!

My personal favorite Metallica's Fade To Black solo(1st one)
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Dave J
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Posted: 1st Oct 2004 10:04
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Quote: "yes i'm from the UK"


Is that supposed to be odd? Most of the people here are from the UK.


"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
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Underworld 1020
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Posted: 6th Oct 2004 00:53
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I'm not!

The college I think I want to go to RIT is here at my school right now, I'm going to go talk to them!!!

See Ya!
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bitJericho
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Posted: 6th Oct 2004 23:53
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be careful not to shy away from those 'unnecessary classes' They can teach you alot. I took a sort of 'families' class in tech school, and it dealt mostly with physchology things, very cool class, I learned a lot. Also my english writing classes were fantastic. They teach you skills you may need some day, don't think they are a complete waste

I don't like you.
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Benjamin
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Posted: 6th Oct 2004 23:58
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Quote: "What about any Metallica song ever!"

What?

Peace sells
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Underworld 1020
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Posted: 7th Oct 2004 00:59
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I'm sure there's some classes that are cool, but I'm not rich, so I got to take only what I need. I talked to the RIT person that was at my school and he gave me a whole load of papers and stuff. It's like 22 grand for tuition and then plus all the other stuff like books, etc. I think I'll just rent a apartment off campus or something because its a lot of money to stay on campus, plus I got my girlfriend and stuff. I don't have enough money to go there for the whole four years and really don't have the money for it at all, but I take out a loan or something. I'm going to have to go to the community college for the first two years and then RIT. I only need a 1200 to get in, but I also have to be on the top 20 percent of the graduating class or something like that.

When I was talking about Metallica, the greatest band ever, I was saying that I can play any of their songs on the guitar

See Ya!
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bitJericho
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Posted: 7th Oct 2004 01:24
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O_O... you do realize there are not only the student loans givent by banks, but there is the FAFSA, which is a gov't loan, which is far more flexible than a bank loan when it comes to paying up, But there are grants, lower tuition for out of state students or those of a minority, including those of low income, there's also the scholarships which can help you out a bit. I found a really nice article. And you should really be talking to somebody who does this stuff at your school as well as your college representative to get the most free money as you can, and then cover the rest with loans.

http://www.kiplinger.com/features/archives/2003/08/tuition.html

I don't like you.
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Benjamin
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Posted: 7th Oct 2004 03:04
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Quote: "When I was talking about Metallica, the greatest band ever, I was saying that I can play any of their songs on the guitar"

Yes but can you play all the solos?

Peace sells
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Underworld 1020
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Posted: 7th Oct 2004 07:10
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I won't be able to get a scolarship or anything because I don't have all A's. My dad also make like 80 grand a year, but that doesn't help me any! I'll ask someone at my school about loans and stuff and there's a thing at RIT where they show you around and stuff.

I can play most of the solos, but my favorite one is the first solo of the Fade To Black song!
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bitJericho
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Posted: 7th Oct 2004 07:37
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Quote: " I don't have all A's"


you don't need to be an a student to get loans, grants, or scholarships!!

80k a year, now that's another thing completely. But perhaps you can work on getting a loan from him, as it seems he's unwilling to give it straight out to you.


No plot? No problem! Come write with the worst of us!
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BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 7th Oct 2004 11:48
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I thought it was the other way around, you got lower tuition if you're in state. If you're in a music program, in sports program, in something like NHS, those can also get you money.

Crazy Donut Productions, Current Project: Project Starbuks
Sony stole our name!
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bitJericho
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Perhaps it depends on the college..


No plot? No problem! Come write with the worst of us!
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Underworld 1020
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Posted: 8th Oct 2004 00:58 Edited at: 9th Jun 2006 01:33
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nevermind.


Check Out My Site: http://www.freewebs.com/underworld1020
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GothOtaku
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Posted: 14th Oct 2004 03:01
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Quote: " I thought it was the other way around, you got lower tuition if you're in state."

Yeah, that's the way it is for most colleges from what I've seen.
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