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FPSC Classic Product Chat / What will it cost?...

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Essex
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2004 15:30 Edited at: 22nd Oct 2004 15:33
I've searched but didn't see any info. What do YOU think it might cost now that we've seen the movie?
granada
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2004 15:36
Thinking the same thing

dave

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Game Freak10K
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2004 17:18
50$-55$. I think itll definitely cost more than the 3D game maker, but less than Darkbasic Pro. The 3D game maker costs 35$, but 535$ if you want an unlimited selling liscense for your games. Same with FPS creator, you can make and distribute your games but if you want to sell them, you need a liscense. So, Id guess 50-55$ for FPS creator. Its the price of the liscense that worries me more, since well be using a more sophisticated engine a.k.a FPSCreator.
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David T
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2004 18:09
I guess £39.99.

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Neofish
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2004 21:26
well $50 is around £40 (more like 35)

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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2004 21:57
$59.99 for the license to give your games away and $899 for unlimited selling license. Thats my guess. But they may have way more commercial customers if they do a royalty setup also. Say $149 for the license and then add a royalty fee from the games sold for commercial use.

Richard Davey
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2004 22:22
Price isn't decided yet, but you're right in that it'll be somewhere between T3DGM and DBPro in price.

License issue to be confirmed.

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Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2004 22:55
I think £50 wouldn't be un-reasonable, about £10 more than most full games.

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2004 22:56
It won't be that expensive Hamish, more around £30 than £50.

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Supremacy
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2004 00:22
Commercial License ????? i was serously thinking of buying fps creator, but with a commercial license you have just flee me way, if i need a commercial license to sell the games i wont buy fps creator. sorry guys, just being honest.

Swhale aka The FPS Creator
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2004 00:25
im hoping its not any more then $60. it was discussed in another board about the lisences, an admin brought up the idea of havnig a pecentage fee, where for everygame you must send in say, 10% of the profits. i would much rather like this idea, im not planning on widely distributing my video games, but if i do create a really awesome game i may decide to sell it to a few select people.

i definantly am not paying hundred of dollars because i do not expect to sell tons of my game and make that money back

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2004 00:45
It won't cost more than $60, don't worry. Current thinking is $49.99 and I doubt it'll change from that.

We have been talking today about the option to either buy an outright commercial license or have us sell your games and take a percentage and it looks very likely we'll offer both.

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David T
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2004 00:58
Quote: "or have us sell your games and take a percentage"


I like the sound of that alot!

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granada
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2004 01:09
It all sounds good to me(just need a date to look forward to )

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Northern Lights
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2004 01:25
Quote: "or have us sell your games and take a percentage"

Yeah, I like that idea.

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PowerSoft
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2004 01:27
TGC encourage indi developers and charging a forune wont be in the reches of most indis


Create? Play? YOU Decide
David T
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2004 02:31
But the payment system Rich suggested will be

Get 15 new commands, all the date / time commands left out of DBPro for free!
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Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2004 03:01
Woah, cheap or what!

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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2004 05:57
Quote: "or have us sell your games and take a percentage"
&
Quote: "Current thinking is $49.99 and I doubt it'll change from that"


I like both of those.

JerBil
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2004 08:40 Edited at: 23rd Oct 2004 08:41
I'd be glad for TGC to have a percentage. Makes things better all around!

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Posted: 23rd Oct 2004 21:12
Having to buy a 500$ liscense scared me away from T3DGM, but I like this "percentage" noise I keep hearing for FPSCreator. I wont have to ante up a wad of cash for a liscense that I seriously may never need. TGC gets paid when I do, sounds reasonable.
Cheers TGC!

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PowerSoft
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Posted: 24th Oct 2004 00:18
sorry. my bad..... must stop being stupid


Create? Play? YOU Decide
Mattman
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Posted: 24th Oct 2004 00:23
But what about if we want to make our game free?

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Jedive
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Posted: 24th Oct 2004 01:25
Quote: "Commercial License ????? i was serously thinking of buying fps creator, but with a commercial license you have just flee me way, if i need a commercial license to sell the games i wont buy fps creator. sorry guys, just being honest."
How many DBPro games have you sold?

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 24th Oct 2004 03:35
Quote: " But what about if we want to make our game free?"


Then you're not making money from it, hence there are no license issues, hence - you pay nothing and are free to hand out EXEs until the cows come home.

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Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 24th Oct 2004 04:14
Quote: "Commercial License ????? i was serously thinking of buying fps creator, but with a commercial license you have just flee me way, if i need a commercial license to sell the games i wont buy fps creator. sorry guys, just being honest"


I can understand DBPro not needing a licence, it takes many months, even years to create a decent game that is commercial quality. But with FPSC the dev time will be greatly decreased, and so will the skill and effort needed to get the same result as you would with DBPro.

Not having a commercial licence would probably result in a lot of people getting quick money very easily, and that would probably turn a lot of people against FPSC (why shoul experienced programmers working months on end on their game get less for it than some 10 year old who can click a game together in a week?). Only people who are going to spend a lot of time perfecting their game, and have the confidence that they are going to make back the money they spent on the licence, are actually going to buy the licence.

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zircher
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Posted: 24th Oct 2004 10:29
From my observations, a game clicked together in a week looks like a game clicked together in a week. (Just look at all the weak clones out there.) There's a novelty value in the very beginning, but it is the people that bring in their own resources and talent to deliver those extra ideas and scripts that will make a game worth paying for.
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dark coder
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Posted: 24th Oct 2004 10:32
i believe he said that before the %cut was idea introduced ^^


SoulMan
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Posted: 24th Oct 2004 12:22
I am interested in a licensing program. How about a four step license program. Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum.
Here are the benifits of the levels.
Bronze - Developer keeps 20% TGC Keeps 80%
Silver - Developer keeps 35% TGC Keeps 65%
Gold - Developer keeps 50% TGC Keeps 50%
Platinum - Developer Keeps 65% TGC Keeps 35%

The game would start off at Bronze status and would have to work it's way up the chart.

Bronze - Start
Silver - Sell 10,000 Copies
Gold - Sell 50,000 Copies
Platinum - Sell 125,000
However, if you sell 125,000 right off the bat, you don't get the full benifit of Platinum, 10,000 units would count for the bronze level, 10,001 - 50,0000 would count for the silver level, 50,001 - 125,000 would count for the gold level. Anything over the 125,000 counts as Platinum.
Still this is up to TGC how they want to do it and I support whatever choice they make.

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Airslide
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Posted: 24th Oct 2004 13:37
I like your idea, SoulMan. Maybe it would be like you by it...like a membership or subscription. Example:
Bronze - Free
Silver - $10 a month
Gold - $20 a month
Platinum - $30 a month, or maybe $50
I think my idea is stupid but it's an idea.

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Ian T
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Posted: 24th Oct 2004 13:44
Quote: "Platinum - Sell 125,000"


Heh, that's a lot of sales for an indie game .


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Zone Chicken
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Posted: 24th Oct 2004 14:08 Edited at: 24th Oct 2004 14:19
Ok i was thinking about this and came up with with a couple questions. Say you used fps creator to make a game, but didn't use any content from tgc's you made and imported all your own content would you still need a license to sell or distribute such a game because of using your tool to put it together and script system to run it?
And if someone did such is there a way that you could even tell that the game was made with fps creator and not with dbp?

I would rather just buy a outright commercial license.
The percentage idea is great for people that would need a host, but hopefully there will be a outright commercial license for people that want to sell on there own.
SoulMan
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Posted: 24th Oct 2004 16:16
From what Rich said, there will be two options, but buying the commercial license will be expensive. However, I don't think it's a bad idea. My idea just covers the % portion. Connor not a bad idea, but remember, it's just sales you have to reach. You wouldn't have to pay a monthly support thing to be at a level. Otherwise if you pay for Platinum and you don't get Platinum sales, then you end up paying money for nothing. With my idea, the plan works that if you sell something you get something, if you don't then you don't owe. That's usually how the developers and publishers work the deal, of course I could be wrong, but from what I have read that's how it works.
SoulMan

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Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 25th Oct 2004 17:38
Quote: "From my observations, a game clicked together in a week looks like a game clicked together in a week"


It would still look like a good game, I mean you saw the demo video of what you can put together in an hour or so. Therefore they would be able to make some money out of it when they put hardly any effort into it at all. It would actually be quite crap compared to someone who spent a long time developing a game with FPSC. My point is that without the licence, any old idiot kid could scam people into buying his crappy game, without even having to ask for TeH Cod3Z, or having to fork out £500 for a licence (random estimate).

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Karl Lopez
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Posted: 25th Oct 2004 20:07
Way cool indeed the prices, but i think 39.99UK Pounds

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Game Freak10K
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Posted: 25th Oct 2004 23:41
like I said, its price of the liscense that worries me more than the overall price of the engine. But the whole percentage melody sounds great!

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 26th Oct 2004 01:50 Edited at: 26th Oct 2004 02:23
The Bronze, Silver, Gold (etc) idea is a good one - but I think it could work differently. Remember, with the percentage scheme the plan was to have no upfront payment required (or at least nothing coming even close to the license fee, maybe just a small set-up fee). What could happen is that if you sell over X units, the percentage we take drops. This could continue.. so for a really popular game, we take a much smaller percentage.

Quote: "Say you used fps creator to make a game, but didn't use any content from tgc's you made and imported all your own content would you still need a license to sell or distribute such a game because of using your tool to put it together and script system to run it?"


Yes you'd still need a license. You may not be using our media, but you're still using our code and hard work. Same principal as why people license the Unreal engine, etc.

Quote: "And if someone did such is there a way that you could even tell that the game was made with fps creator and not with dbp?"


We can tell just by looking at the file, but more importantly don't rule out the possibility of a splash-screen / end-splash like T3DGM has.

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SoulMan
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Posted: 26th Oct 2004 10:53
That's what I had in mind with

Quote: "Bronze - Developer keeps 20% TGC Keeps 80%
Silver - Developer keeps 35% TGC Keeps 65%
Gold - Developer keeps 50% TGC Keeps 50%
Platinum - Developer Keeps 65% TGC Keeps 35%"


and with
Quote: "Bronze - Start
Silver - Sell 10,000 Copies
Gold - Sell 50,000 Copies
Platinum - Sell 125,000
However, if you sell 125,000 right off the bat, you don't get the full benifit of Platinum, 10,000 units would count for the bronze level, 10,001 - 50,0000 would count for the silver level, 50,001 - 125,000 would count for the gold level. Anything over the 125,000 counts as Platinum.
Still this is up to TGC how they want to do it and I support whatever choice they make."

And you don't pay for anything, but the small setup fee I think would be fair, just for storage and transfer of the game. It would have to be a downloadable version or you would have to make your own cd's and ship them to TGC to be handled from there. However TGC would have to setup a publishing division to handle the extra burden that this could cause, or set it up with the publishers they currently go through.
I think though to acheive CD status or Physical status of a game you would want the game to at least hit Gold Status to make it worthwhile for everyone.
SoulMan

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Thade
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Posted: 27th Oct 2004 01:46
This thread is one of the most idiotic I ever read.
Silver Gold Platinum - what a rubbish.
The license thing has brought the ruin to many wannabe engine sellers - until they found out that people would buy; but only for a fix price - no percentage, no license, no further money. Conitec for instance started selling after it went licence free, and the list of others is long...
And another aspect: Especially after the experience with Dark Basic Pro (the first 2 years you couldn't work with it and it took 3 years to fix most of the bugs) only a masochist or suicider would spend more than 45 Euros.
Richard Davey
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Posted: 27th Oct 2004 02:19
Give some hard and fast facts and your post might make some sense.

Comparing a tool like FPSC to a programming language like A5 is hardly a valid comparison. If you want to compare like with like then do so.

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SeaScape
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Posted: 27th Oct 2004 08:11 Edited at: 27th Oct 2004 08:13
I have a suggestion... Why doesn't TGC charge $100 US or so for FPS Creator outright? Do not go over $250 though, because that is not a great idea if you are trying to get many people to adopt the program.

With the $100 (or whatever fee), you have the legal right to sell your games without any hassles whatsoever. No royalities to anyone except to the people that actually create the game. Sounds fair and I think TGC would sell more in volume than having such a high fee for the commercial license.

For something that is this capable of creating a 3D game, I would gladly pay up to $250 for an unrestricted license of FPS Creator. Sure it won't be as cheap as $50, but as I mentioned above, you would have complete control of the sales of your game.

BTW, @ TGC, FPS Creator looks AWESOME!
Zone Chicken
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Posted: 27th Oct 2004 08:45
I feel the same i would rather pay out one set price for the program, and license fee and would pay around $300 as long as it does what has been stated thus far, and future updates, maybe not specific addon packs but basic updates where free.
SeaScape
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Posted: 27th Oct 2004 09:08 Edited at: 27th Oct 2004 09:13
@ Zone Chicken

As long as FPS Creator would include the program CD, manual, commercial license, and basic updates for $250 or less, I would buy it in an instant. In my opinion, It is better to sell 1000 copies @ a lower price than 100 copies @ a higher price. I have no problem paying for any specific add-on packs for FPS Creator either.

This program looks absolutely awesome, and to capitalise on that the price must be very attractive to a developer. TGC will shoot themselves in the feet if this is priced way too high.
SpazDC
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Posted: 27th Oct 2004 09:20
I think it might come out at $60 if there isn't a license and $40 if there is. Plus if it is made by the same people as the 3D game maker it might be the same price all round!

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SpazDC
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Posted: 27th Oct 2004 09:23
I have to agree with JNR with this one!
I would just buy the add-ons too.

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JerBil
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Posted: 27th Oct 2004 09:36
@ JNR
@ Zone Chicken

Don't help 'em!

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Zone Chicken
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Posted: 27th Oct 2004 10:02
@ JNR

Yeah i understand what you say about the high price it could kill there sales true.

But if it does what there claming it can do even if you where to make a mediocre fps game with 8 levels and sold it for let's say a very very cheap price of 5 bucks, and sold only 50 copies you could make $250. Easily paying for the program itself. Im not saying i'd rather see a higher price tag $250 would be great for the program and license.

I was just trying to say i wouldn't like to see it be pay $250 for it now get a limited time of basic update's, have to buy 5 new addons then a year down the road 2.0 comes out and they want $100 upgrade fee from 1.0 to 2.0 and a new license fee for the new tools added in. Advanced physics packs and other addon's i can see paying for as long as there advancing the program way beyond what it originally is. The idea of them taking percentage for your game is great if someone needs (hosting,advertisement,billing)and all that, but not every one will.
SeaScape
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Posted: 27th Oct 2004 10:18 Edited at: 27th Oct 2004 10:20
@ Zone Chicken

Agreed... I think the unlimited updates for the commercial license is definitely a must. For non-commercial users, the price could be a lot cheaper to appease the people that don't want to release commercial products. They could have different serial numbers for non-commercial and commercial licenses.

Note that I wasn't trying to say ALL users should pay the $250 - only commercial developers.

@ TGC

Do Shareware games fall under the free license or do they fall under the commercial license? I think that needs to be cleared up...
Mattman
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Posted: 27th Oct 2004 10:25
I like the percentage idea, as long as the above mentioned TGC selling it....

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SeaScape
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Posted: 27th Oct 2004 10:40
@ Mattman

I don't and I may not buy it if there is a percentage anything in it. Sorry...

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