What is this shape? 3D? 4D? - GameCreators Forum

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Moggie100

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Posted: 5th Jan 2003 23:15

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Look at this, (it should run on DBC and DBP) and tell me how many dimensions this has. (requires no other files)

Rem Project: Megatetahydran
Rem Created: 27/10/02 17:04:35

Rem ***** Main Source File *****

cls
sync on : sync rate 100
backdrop on : color backdrop RGB(0,0,0)

newx=rnd(640)
newy=rnd(480)
newx1=rnd(640)
newy1=rnd(480)
newx2=rnd(640)
newy2=rnd(480)
newx3=rnd(640)
newy3=rnd(480)
newx4=rnd(640)
newx4=rnd(480)

xval=rnd(1)
yval=rnd(1)
xval1=rnd(1)
yval1=rnd(1)
xval2=rnd(1)
yval2=rnd(1)
xval3=rnd(1)
yval3=rnd(1)
xval4=rnd(1)
yval4=rnd(1)

movex=2
movey=2

do
if newx>640
xval=0
endif
if newx480
yval=0
endif
if newy640
xval1=0
endif
if newx1480
yval1=0
endif
if newy1640
xval2=0
endif
if newx2480
yval2=0
endif
if newy2640
xval3=0
endif
if newx3480
yval3=0
endif
if newy3640
xval4=0
endif
if newx4480
yval4=0
endif
if newy4

Life is like a hot bath, the longer you're in it, the more wrinkles you get.

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Easily Confused

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Posted: 5th Jan 2003 23:40

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whoops! try again.

Programming anything is an art, and you can't rush art.
Unless your name is Bob Ross, then you can do it in thirty minutes.

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Brent_Seraphim

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Posted: 6th Jan 2003 00:04

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4d? I don't think so. The 4th dimension is time. So to answer your question its 3d.

"Laugh to scorn the power of man..."

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Darklight

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Posted: 6th Jan 2003 19:35

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Any 3 dimensional representation of a Nth dimensional object such as a hypercube is merely that : A shadow of the original form. Any 2 dimensional representation of a 3 dimensional object is again just a shadow of the original form (see Flatlander Thought Experiment). Technically since this is all on a flat screen, it's no more than 2 dimensions.

When someone actually writes a dll for Darkbasic to project holograms, let me know!! heh

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Moggie100

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Posted: 6th Jan 2003 22:15

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Easily confused - trying again!

Brent_Seraphim - if the 4th dimention is time, then surely any shape exists in 4 dimentions else it doesnt exist at all!

Darklight - Time, therefore anything displayed on a computer screen is in 4 dimentions, since energy is matter, and light=energy=matter so therefore the light from the screen is projecting into the 3rd dimention, and because it exists it occupis the 4th dimention (time) as well, else you wouldnt be able to see it

Anyhoo, here goes again

cls
sync on : sync rate 100
backdrop on : color backdrop RGB(0,0,0)

newx=rnd(640)
newy=rnd(480)
newx1=rnd(640)
newy1=rnd(480)
newx2=rnd(640)
newy2=rnd(480)
newx3=rnd(640)
newy3=rnd(480)
newx4=rnd(640)
newx4=rnd(480)

xval=rnd(1)
yval=rnd(1)
xval1=rnd(1)
yval1=rnd(1)
xval2=rnd(1)
yval2=rnd(1)
xval3=rnd(1)
yval3=rnd(1)
xval4=rnd(1)
yval4=rnd(1)

movex=2
movey=2

do
if newx>640
xval=0
endif
if newx<0
xval=1
endif
if newy>480
yval=0
endif
if newy<0
yval=1
endif
if xval=1 and yval=1
`circle newx,newy,10
newx=newx+movex
newy=newy+movey
endif
if xval=0 and yval=0
`circle newx,newy,10
newx=newx-movex
newy=newy-movey
endif
if xval=1 and yval=0
`circle newx,newy,10
newx=newx+movex
newy=newy-movey
endif
if xval=0 and yval=1
`circle newx,newy,10
newx=newx-movex
newy=newy+movey
endif

if newx1>640
xval1=0
endif
if newx1<0
xval1=1
endif
if newy1>480
yval1=0
endif
if newy1<0
yval1=1
endif
if xval1=1 and yval1=1
`circle newx1,newy1,10
newx1=newx1+movex
newy1=newy1+movey
endif
if xval1=0 and yval1=0
`circle newx1,newy1,10
newx1=newx1-movex
newy1=newy1-movey
endif
if xval1=1 and yval1=0
`circle newx1,newy1,10
newx1=newx1+movex
newy1=newy1-movey
endif
if xval1=0 and yval1=1
`circle newx1,newy1,10
newx1=newx1-movex
newy1=newy1+movey
endif

if newx2>640
xval2=0
endif
if newx2<0
xval2=1
endif
if newy2>480
yval2=0
endif
if newy2<0
yval2=1
endif
if xval2=1 and yval2=1
`circle newx2,newy2,10
newx2=newx2+movex
newy2=newy2+movey
endif
if xval2=0 and yval2=0
`circle newx2,newy2,10
newx2=newx2-movex
newy2=newy2-movey
endif
if xval2=1 and yval2=0
`circle newx2,newy2,10
newx2=newx2+movex
newy2=newy2-movey
endif
if xval2=0 and yval2=1
`circle newx2,newy2,10
newx2=newx2-movex
newy2=newy2+movey
endif

if newx3>640
xval3=0
endif
if newx3<0
xval3=1
endif
if newy3>480
yval3=0
endif
if newy3<0
yval3=1
endif
if xval3=1 and yval3=1
`circle newx3,newy3,10
newx3=newx3+movex
newy3=newy3+movey
endif
if xval3=0 and yval3=0
`circle newx3,newy3,10
newx3=newx3-movex
newy3=newy3-movey
endif
if xval3=1 and yval3=0
`circle newx3,newy3,10
newx3=newx3+movex
newy3=newy3-movey
endif
if xval3=0 and yval3=1
`circle newx3,newy3,10
newx3=newx3-movex
newy3=newy3+movey
endif

if newx4>640
xval4=0
endif
if newx4<0
xval4=1
endif
if newy4>480
yval4=0
endif
if newy4<0
yval4=1
endif
if xval4=1 and yval4=1
`circle newx4,newy4,10
newx4=newx4+movex
newy4=newy4+movey
endif
if xval4=0 and yval4=0
`circle newx4,newy4,10
newx4=newx4-movex
newy4=newy4-movey
endif
if xval4=1 and yval4=0
`circle newx4,newy4,10
newx4=newx4+movex
newy4=newy4-movey
endif
if xval4=0 and yval4=1
`circle newx4,newy4,10
newx4=newx4-movex
newy4=newy4+movey
endif

line newx,newy,newx1,newy1
line newx1,newy1,newx2,newy2
line newx,newy,newx2,newy2
line newx,newy,newx3,newy3
line newx1,newy1,newx3,newy3
line newx2,newy2,newx3,newy3
line newx4,newy4,newx,newy
line newx4,newy4,newx1,newy1
line newx4,newy4,newx2,newy2
line newx4,newy4,newx3,newy3

remstart
set cursor 0,0
print newx
print newy
print xval
print yval
remend

set cursor 0,0
print "Press up to increase speed"
Print "Press down to decrease speed"

if upkey()=1
movex=movex+1
movey=movey+1
print movex
wait 500
endif
if downkey()=1
movex=movex-1
movey=movey-1
print movex
wait 500
endif

sync
loop

+ Code Snippet

cls
sync on : sync rate 100
backdrop on : color backdrop RGB(0,0,0)

newx=rnd(640)
newy=rnd(480)
newx1=rnd(640)
newy1=rnd(480)
newx2=rnd(640)
newy2=rnd(480)
newx3=rnd(640)
newy3=rnd(480)
newx4=rnd(640)
newx4=rnd(480)

xval=rnd(1)
yval=rnd(1)
xval1=rnd(1)
yval1=rnd(1)
xval2=rnd(1)
yval2=rnd(1)
xval3=rnd(1)
yval3=rnd(1)
xval4=rnd(1)
yval4=rnd(1)

movex=2
movey=2

do
if newx>640
xval=0
endif
if newx<0
xval=1
endif
if newy>480
yval=0
endif
if newy<0
yval=1
endif
if xval=1 and yval=1
`circle newx,newy,10
newx=newx+movex
newy=newy+movey
endif
if xval=0 and yval=0
`circle newx,newy,10
newx=newx-movex
newy=newy-movey
endif
if xval=1 and yval=0
`circle newx,newy,10
newx=newx+movex
newy=newy-movey
endif
if xval=0 and yval=1
`circle newx,newy,10
newx=newx-movex
newy=newy+movey
endif


if newx1>640
xval1=0
endif
if newx1<0
xval1=1
endif
if newy1>480
yval1=0
endif
if newy1<0
yval1=1
endif
if xval1=1 and yval1=1
`circle newx1,newy1,10
newx1=newx1+movex
newy1=newy1+movey
endif
if xval1=0 and yval1=0
`circle newx1,newy1,10
newx1=newx1-movex
newy1=newy1-movey
endif
if xval1=1 and yval1=0
`circle newx1,newy1,10
newx1=newx1+movex
newy1=newy1-movey
endif
if xval1=0 and yval1=1
`circle newx1,newy1,10
newx1=newx1-movex
newy1=newy1+movey
endif

if newx2>640
xval2=0
endif
if newx2<0
xval2=1
endif
if newy2>480
yval2=0
endif
if newy2<0
yval2=1
endif
if xval2=1 and yval2=1
`circle newx2,newy2,10
newx2=newx2+movex
newy2=newy2+movey
endif
if xval2=0 and yval2=0
`circle newx2,newy2,10
newx2=newx2-movex
newy2=newy2-movey
endif
if xval2=1 and yval2=0
`circle newx2,newy2,10
newx2=newx2+movex
newy2=newy2-movey
endif
if xval2=0 and yval2=1
`circle newx2,newy2,10
newx2=newx2-movex
newy2=newy2+movey
endif

if newx3>640
xval3=0
endif
if newx3<0
xval3=1
endif
if newy3>480
yval3=0
endif
if newy3<0
yval3=1
endif
if xval3=1 and yval3=1
`circle newx3,newy3,10
newx3=newx3+movex
newy3=newy3+movey
endif
if xval3=0 and yval3=0
`circle newx3,newy3,10
newx3=newx3-movex
newy3=newy3-movey
endif
if xval3=1 and yval3=0
`circle newx3,newy3,10
newx3=newx3+movex
newy3=newy3-movey
endif
if xval3=0 and yval3=1
`circle newx3,newy3,10
newx3=newx3-movex
newy3=newy3+movey
endif

if newx4>640
xval4=0
endif
if newx4<0
xval4=1
endif
if newy4>480
yval4=0
endif
if newy4<0
yval4=1
endif
if xval4=1 and yval4=1
`circle newx4,newy4,10
newx4=newx4+movex
newy4=newy4+movey
endif
if xval4=0 and yval4=0
`circle newx4,newy4,10
newx4=newx4-movex
newy4=newy4-movey
endif
if xval4=1 and yval4=0
`circle newx4,newy4,10
newx4=newx4+movex
newy4=newy4-movey
endif
if xval4=0 and yval4=1
`circle newx4,newy4,10
newx4=newx4-movex
newy4=newy4+movey
endif

line newx,newy,newx1,newy1
line newx1,newy1,newx2,newy2
line newx,newy,newx2,newy2
line newx,newy,newx3,newy3
line newx1,newy1,newx3,newy3
line newx2,newy2,newx3,newy3
line newx4,newy4,newx,newy
line newx4,newy4,newx1,newy1
line newx4,newy4,newx2,newy2
line newx4,newy4,newx3,newy3

remstart
set cursor 0,0
print newx
print newy
print xval
print yval
remend

set cursor 0,0
print "Press up to increase speed"
Print "Press down to decrease speed"

if upkey()=1
movex=movex+1
movey=movey+1
print movex
wait 500
endif
if downkey()=1
movex=movex-1
movey=movey-1
print movex
wait 500
endif

sync
loop

I have a feeling this aint gonna work either lol, but what the hey

Life is like a hot bath, the longer you're in it, the more wrinkles you get.

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Moggie100

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Posted: 6th Jan 2003 22:16

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woo! it worked

Life is like a hot bath, the longer you're in it, the more wrinkles you get.

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Brent_Seraphim

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Posted: 8th Jan 2003 01:22

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Dang Moggie

Yes E=mc Squared. Energy is equal to mass times C(speed of Light) squared. We view things in 3 dimensions. From what I've read The 4th dimension is mainly used to decern when an event takes place. But since everything is unforutnaletly
'relative", so is time. And yeah good point, the screen we see displays in only 2d..height and width. However it can accurately simpulate the 3rd, to an extent. Ah heck...4d. Its 3d but I'm experiencing it in time.

"Laugh to scorn the power of man..."

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Kensupen

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Posted: 8th Jan 2003 07:39

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Well, if you wanna get all technical, it's 2d cause it's on a CRT/LCD. If it existed in "real" space, it would be a changing/morphing 3D shape.

-Kensupen

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cybersamurai

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Posted: 8th Jan 2003 07:39

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Yay Discussions on Dimensions of the space time continuem.

1st: a place, (no width or height)
2nd: line (length and width but no height)
3rd: cube (length, width, and height) what that image is
4th: time as brent said (a sequence of events)
5th: 3rd + 4th the dimensions we live in
6th: That of which is not under the constraints of the previous dimensions (complete freedom) *wrote a 2 page poem about that which won an award*

7th: Nothing (which sparks my favorite question "What is nothing?")

just my 2 sense of non sense probally way of the actual topic of this post, but hey, who cares

cybersamurai

Rusty Gears

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cybersamurai

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Posted: 8th Jan 2003 17:05

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Hehe, that shut yall up

Rusty Gears

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hexGEAR

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Posted: 8th Jan 2003 19:43

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all i'm thinking of is what a nice screen saver the pattern would make

your birth was a blessing, sent to live and die on earth as a lesson, we each have a star all you have to do is find it, once you do, everyone who sees it will be blinded - DMX

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Benjamin

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Posted: 8th Jan 2003 21:13

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Ok then, answer this ,1 Dimension is X, 2 Dimension is X+Y, 3D is X+Y+Z. Whats 4D? i dont think u understand. A dimension is not time, but an axis of coords'

xxxpetratxxx
B. R. W

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cybersamurai

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Posted: 8th Jan 2003 23:31

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Time is a dimension, it can be measured and therefore has dimensions

Rusty Gears

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rapscaLLion

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Posted: 8th Jan 2003 23:31

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Well... how the hell can we know what the 4th dimension is? 5th? 6th? 7th? There is no real way to tell.

Anyway, the graphic on the screen is a representation of a morphing 3 Dimensional object. It's verticies move in an uncommon way, creating an optical illusion that defy's logic. But it's still 3D.
So there

Alex Wanuch
aka rapscaLLion
Kousen Dev Progress >> Currently Working On Editors

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rapscaLLion

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Posted: 8th Jan 2003 23:34

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and it looks even more unconvincing when you uncomment the lines involving circles.
It is a cool effect though

Alex Wanuch
aka rapscaLLion
Kousen Dev Progress >> Currently Working On Editors

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The Darthster

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Posted: 9th Jan 2003 00:11

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Try thinking about multidimensional arrays. Dim dimensions(1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8...). They are quite hard to visualise, and code.

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indi

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Posted: 9th Jan 2003 08:23

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u can think of a bookshelf with 5d arrays also

imagine

what shelf
what book
what page
what row
what colum

I made a snippet to demonstrate this on my site.

I have never fathomed anything above the 4th dimension so if someone has a definition of 5 6 7 8 9 and 10 id love to hear it.

String theory or Pringle theory becomes the only two options that the major scientists seem to attach themselves to one or the other.

anything on the screen is a representation of light to mimic 2d or 3d.

light has mass therefore u could prove it hard to identify the 2nd dimension let alone the 1st.

3rd and 4th are tangable but 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th and beyond makes no sense.

http://www.lunarpixel.com

http://www.lunarpixel.com/dt/

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hexGEAR

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Posted: 9th Jan 2003 12:30

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ok, i'm officially lost

your birth was a blessing, sent to live and die on earth as a lesson, we each have a star all you have to do is find it, once you do, everyone who sees it will be blinded - DMX

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Moggie100

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Posted: 11th Jan 2003 18:27

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LOL! I never knew that this post would get like this!

Anyhoo, if time isnt a dimention, then what would you classify it as? I put it under a dimention due to the fact that you can move around in it in 3 dimentions, as is explained below.

1D - if it is possible (in theory) for you to move left+right only, u're in 1D

2D - if it is possible (in theory) for you to move left+right+forwards+backwards only, u're in 2D

3D - if it is possible (in theory) for you to move left, right, forwards, backwards, up, and down only, then u're in 3D

4D - if it possible to move in any direction in any of the above, but cou can actually do it, and see the effect u're in 4D --> Time

Time can be a dimention because you can see any of the lower dimentions from the upper one, ie:

1D can see only 1D
2D can see 1 & 2D
3D can see 1,2 & 3D
4D can.... (u get the idea)

So for us to do anything in 3D we need to be in 4D, therefore proving that no-one can exist (in this universe) in a dimentions lower than 4D, because if you cont exist in time, then u dont exist at all, even if you were to exist everywhere at once, you would not be traveling through time so therefore would not able to acknowlage the existance of yourself, or any other being because thoughs happen in a logical order 1--->2--->3--->etc. for any thought stream to progress you would need to move through time, unless of course if you thoght of everything at once, but even then, that 1 point in space/time, you would exist in the 4th dimention.

ouch, my fingers hurt

also, since hexgear brought it up, it would make a nice screensaver. Now, how the hell do I do that, lol!

Ps. would you beleive this all came origionally from a bit of code for a bouncing ball that I came up with, LOL!

Life is like a hot bath, the longer you're in it, the more wrinkles you get.

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Moggie100

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Posted: 11th Jan 2003 18:37

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oops, hit post too soon lol

Rapcat - the lines for circles are the remmnants from the old bounding ball code, in face if u remove these lines:

------------------------------------
line newx,newy,newx1,newy1
line newx1,newy1,newx2,newy2
line newx,newy,newx2,newy2
line newx,newy,newx3,newy3
line newx1,newy1,newx3,newy3
line newx2,newy2,newx3,newy3
line newx4,newy4,newx,newy
line newx4,newy4,newx1,newy1
line newx4,newy4,newx2,newy2
line newx4,newy4,newx3,newy3
------------------------------------

and unrem the circles u get a screen of bouncing balls

Life is like a hot bath, the longer you're in it, the more wrinkles you get.

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UberTuba

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Posted: 11th Jan 2003 18:58

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Time isn't a dimension, merely an illusion. If time were truly a dimension, it could not be bent, alla time dilation. and it would be possible to travel back in it. Also there are officially 13 dimensions, but that is, in my opinion, a load of s@*$!!!

Life is a terminal disease.
You never survive it.

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Brent_Seraphim

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Posted: 11th Jan 2003 19:43

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LOL, yes Moggie. This is great isn't it? I'm sorry for starting this maddness. We've seen some good discussion on Dimensions.

. Just great. Moggie could you repost your code? Thank God we exist in space-time

. And darkfluff, your last post holds true,somewhat. Time as explained in today's theories and Einstein is rather fickle isn't it? Darn thing has to be relative..why couldn't it have been politically correct and been the same for everybody regardless if their under the influence of extreme gravity or close to C. However time is defined as a dimension. However a dimension is probably not the best label for it, since it does not really 'flow' or 'move' or exist in a spatial direction.

BTW 13? Holy &$%# Could you list those bad boys for us?

"Laugh to scorn the power of man..."

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Brent_Seraphim

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Posted: 11th Jan 2003 19:46

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Wait I didn't start this...I said time first but you....Moggie....you said 4d....

:

icks up Phaser and takes aim::

"Laugh to scorn the power of man..."

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Revolution

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Posted: 11th Jan 2003 19:46

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Time is a dimension, is is just u can only go fawards through it. Think of it like a one way street, you can only go fawards unless u brake the law. this is the same for time but the law of the universe is a lot harder to brake.

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k0shi

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Posted: 11th Jan 2003 20:24

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there is a new program out now, i was going to make and patent. i forgot what its called, but if you have ever seen 1 of those 3d books or watch a 3d movie with those glasses that make everything 3d you know what im talking about , they now have it so that comp game can become 3d also its so cool almost life like.

What you give is what you get.
.....:::<>-<K0shi>-<>:::.....

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k0shi

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Posted: 11th Jan 2003 20:35

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its a $100 but i think its worth it

What you give is what you get.
.....:::<>-<K0shi>-<>:::.....

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Bogboy2000

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Posted: 11th Jan 2003 20:41

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4D is not time

1D a location, e.g. on the x axis
2D a flat object, e.g. a sprite on a screen
3D an object with width, height, and depth e.g. a cube
4D (hard to explain)...

objects in 4D have similar objects touching each of their sides.

so you have a cube in the middle with six other cubes touching each side (fairly simple).

it gets complicated when each of the six secondary objects are touching each others sides as well.

just imagin that each letter is a cube because you can't draw cubes on a forum and it would be in practice impossible to draw them correctly, but not in theory

A B C D E F G

each face of A is touching each face of B,C,D,E,F,G,H and I
each face of B is touching each face of A,C,D,E,F,G,H and I
each face of C is touching each face of A,B,D,E,F,G,H and I

and so on

this makes for an object which is rathar difficult to draw

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Bogboy2000

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Posted: 11th Jan 2003 20:42

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sorry thats

each face of A is touching each face of B,C,D,E,F,and G
each face of B is touching each face of A,C,D,E,F,and G
each face of C is touching each face of A,B,D,E,F,and G

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Brent_Seraphim

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Posted: 11th Jan 2003 21:42

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Um...BogBoy...have you every seen a "4d Modelling package" or something? Do have the slightest idea about what we were discussing?

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Bogboy2000

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Posted: 12th Jan 2003 12:23

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nope i've never seen a 4D modeling pakage because 4D objects are too complicated to draw, a 4D object could not exist in time and space but 4D is an object and not time

yup i know what your discussing!

what 4D is spawned from Moggie100s code snippet

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Brent_Seraphim

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Posted: 12th Jan 2003 17:08

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Riigggghhhhtttt... ... ... ....

Anyway Moggie could you post that code again?

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Moggie100

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Posted: 12th Jan 2003 17:44

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Brent_Seraphim - sure here it is

The origional: