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Geek Culture / Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game / Suggestions

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Shadow Robert
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Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 4th Nov 2004 09:17
wow, don't you just love these public opinion poll threads?
Heh

well as Guild Wars World Preview was last weekend, and will be available for some this up-comming weekend. i feel that perhaps MMORPGs are in the air.

as such, i've decided that i would like to know what everyone thinks is the best features in these games.
what keeps you hooked playing them despite the possibility that outside you might have a life. (but for most those are only rumours )

as such i've compiled a small list of popular rpg games, which you can take for inspiration on what you feel has the best in terms of features. this is more about features, and gameplay... not a 'my fav mmorpg is better than yours' thread.

Ultimanline
Everquest
Star Wars Galaxies
Priston Tale
Ragnarok
Guild Wars
Final Fantasy XI
Earth & Beyond

while there are countless more, these are the ones that come to my mind. now the aim here is to describe a features in such a way that someone who hasn't played the game will understand how it works.
don't worry about huge posts, unlike most people here, i don't skim read, so it will all be read.

just would like a feel for what everyone likes in these sorts of games


Cian Rice
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Posted: 4th Nov 2004 09:20
I like, well you know, I don't know what I like really...
I can't say there is anything I like in MMORPGs, I just play them and find some of them fun, odd aint it? I mean there all pretty boring yet I play them, guild wars is the only I find enjoyabel and I like the because of the huge PvP focus and you can have Pets!

There is only one way to package shaolin: Shaolin Soccer...
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 4th Nov 2004 09:24
there must be some features that stand out to you though.
battle systems you prefer, or maybe trading system. or whatever...


Cian Rice
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Posted: 4th Nov 2004 09:47
Guild Wars Battling, it just looked more like a real battle, Lineage II's Sieges look nice but I haven't played it. Haven't tried City of Heroes but the flyign looks cool. All though Runescape is crap I like the unique rune system for casting magic.

There is only one way to package shaolin: Shaolin Soccer...
John H
Retired Moderator
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Posted: 4th Nov 2004 10:03
Quote: "Priston Tale"


I love this game - Im lvl 75 O_O - Yes I p2p for it. 13 bucks a month but I might soon quit for Guild Wars

Current Stats (If you dont play PT this wont make sense)

Fighter Lvl 66 - Name: RPGamer[DBP] (RETIRED)
Fighter Lvl 75 - Name: Miromi (ACTIVE)
FS Jagged Axe +5 lv/1
FS Great Shield *Perf* Devine Gemmed
FS Cleaver +6 lv/1
FS Spiked Armor Murky Gemmed
FS Grand Brace lv/1
FS Great Gaunts 2.1 Abs
FS Holy Boots
FS Raid
FS Rune Rings/Ammys

My guys pretty good, a friend quit and let me play it. I got some better equips, he got the cleaver/spiked/grand brace/great gaunts other things were me.


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Newbie Brogo
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Posted: 4th Nov 2004 10:07
I've only really played Runescape... and Everquest.

Oh, there is Guild Wars, which I must say may actually tear me away from Everquest, since Everquest sucks my money like a cat.. err.. an ant eater I mean, sucks up ants.

I love the more natural look to it, and more believable, Everquest oddly enough seems to be cartoony now compared to Guild Wars..

Though them everquest dwarves are pretty darn cute.

John H
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Posted: 4th Nov 2004 10:09
Oh the features, basically heres PT

Start at lvl 1
Go kill stuff
Level up to lvl 20
Rank up Quest
Kill Stuff, Buy Equips
Level Up to 40
Rank Up Quest
Kill Stuff, Buy Equips
Kill More stuff, Get rich

Big lvls:
20 - Tier 2 Quest
40 - Tier 3 Quest, Dungeon 1 Access
50 - Dungeon 2 Access
55 - Desert 3/4 Access, Mushroom/Beehive Cave Access
60 - Dungeon 3 Access
65 - Dark Sanctuary Access
70 - Sanctuary Access
75 - Sancutary 2 Access
80 - Iron Map Access

75+ Is where you start to get rich, but some start as low as 55. Its a lot harder to get rich from lvl 55 items now, unless they are 100% perfect, the economy for them has gone way down with the release of higher lvl maps and higher lvl items.

I like the system of Aging/Gemming items. Gemming you can do once on an item, and it does certain stat changes. Aging can be done up to 8 times, but at +6 and up you have a chance of breaking the item. At +4 you have a chance of de-aging, -1 or -2. Aging bring out power in items such as...

Aging an Axe gets +1/+1 Min/Max dmg +10 Accuracy Per Age
So at +8, your axe would have +8/+8 +80

Gemming for instance, can be done once, and if you use the right formula it is risk free. If you gem a certain way you could get

+6/+6 Damage, +70 Accuracy and +40 HP

Lots of people preferre this is they are rich enough. Some people think aging is much more powerful, but its very risky. Most the time people gem for the HP, or for certain things you can get out of gems where age would be too dangerous.

Other then that, its hack, slash, lvl up and get rich


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Soy Cocktail
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Posted: 4th Nov 2004 16:12 Edited at: 4th Nov 2004 16:14
I have only played four MMORPGs which include Horizons, Lineage 2, world of warcraft, and Everquest. The things I like best in MMORPGs is trade skills. Crafting items to use or sell greatly appeals to me. I like to be able to make items and not have to fight for everything. Horizons seems to have the best system out of the four. Trade skills level independantly from fighting monsters. Every time you gather objects for crafting you increase our getherng skill every time you refine it to craft with you gain experience, and every time you actually make an item you gain experience. Another thing I like about the crafting system in horizons is that you can chose what percent of the materials you want to use. For example you can chose to use 2 bronze bars to make a short sword instead of 3, while it lowers your success rate it is often worth it. As your skill increases it takes less esources to craft items, and you gather more materials at a time. Once you have made an item you can sell it to an npc or chose to have a cosigner sell it for you for an upfront fee of 10% of your asking price. When you cosign an item others can buy the item from you when you are offline, and you get the money when you log back in. Fighting classes depend on people with tradeskills for items and people with tradeskills depend on fighting classes for reipies as they are gained from enmies.

With tradeskill systems like everquest or lineage 2 you don't chose to fight or craft and crafting is dependant on your fighting level. With lineage 2 you have to leave your game conneted and have your character sit on the ground to sell items while you dont play. You cant sell items and play at the same time either.

Spending more time sitting around and resting is one major thing that will make me not want to play a MMORPG. I generally don't play games for long so when I do play them I want to play them and not sit around and wait just because they released the game before finishing the content of the game, and dont wnat you to beat it before they can release new content.

Aku Soku Zan
BealziBob
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Posted: 4th Nov 2004 17:36 Edited at: 4th Nov 2004 17:55
I've only ever played 1 MMORPG; Star Wars Galaxies. It consumed 8 months of my life before it finally let me go. The usual things that keep you playing a game are pretty much over and done with in SWG after the first few months. There are no levels, just 35 character classes to master (of which you can only have 4 at once), so no-one can become "uber".

What kept me going back every night for 8 months was undoubtably the social aspect. After joining a Rebel guild city and setting up my droid store I found that other guild members were only too keen to help me make a success of my business by helping me run my mining operations, advertising my wares and protecting me on my travels (I had more crafting skills than combat). In return I would provide guild members with free combat and service droids. I found I rapidly became a valued member of the community, as were all of the regular players. What really made it fun, was getting a strike force of 15-20 guild players together and going off to raid Imperial player bases. Each member had a role to play; front line fighters, snipers, doctors, droid and equipment repairs, infiltration, heavy weapons support and so on. Instead of sitting around waiting to heal, you could call one of the guild doctors to patch you up. Deals could be struck with other cities to allow you to set up automated shops within their borders, letting you get on with other things.

Saying all of that, SWG is quite a limited game in itself, but the community made it more fun than the simple mechanics of the game would appear to allow. If it was single player you would be uninstalling it within a week!

The bonding of players is not something that can be programmed, but what SWG did get right was making it obvious that solo play had few advantages. Community play allowed you to balance out your weaknesses and feel part of a much bigger picture.

In the end, Sony went and ruined the game by allowing anybody to persue Jedi skills. Naturally everyone wanted to become this new "uber" character type, and went off to solo-play through all of the required quests. The communities were disbanded and neglected, and the game became nothing more than a simple level grind, with no encouragement to become one of the 35 lesser classes of character. Now sony have added a space combat/travel expansion to the game, what was left of the initial communities is spread even thinner as they are all out flying through space (In one of the poorest space combat sims ever made). If it wasn't for this community dispersal, I would still be playing now.

So, above all an MMORPG benefits from the encourgement to play cooprativley. Without cooprative benefits, you get bored very quickly.

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 4th Nov 2004 22:14
checked out Horizons, remember that from a few months back.
think a strong community tie is a very good idea; just a question of how exactly could something worth while be implimented without slowing down a server system?


Skeletor
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Posted: 4th Nov 2004 22:53 Edited at: 4th Nov 2004 22:54
EVERQUEST 2 NOVEMBER 8TH WOOOOHOOOOOO

I dont feel like saying what I like about mmo's cause it wont matter, but I will say next monday after im done with my first class im heading to Best Buy getting EQ2 skipping my second class heading home and playing it all day long.


http://www.angelfire.com/games5/db_games/
Wiggett
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Posted: 4th Nov 2004 23:00
Quote: "Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game / Suggestions"


suggestion: Ban them, then have a game burning, just like a book burning. Damn these multiplayer games that try and make out they are super cool do anything you want, btu then turn out to be a form of (a word i can't write here, starts with master.). Bunch of huge nerds that think they are top stuff cause they spent hours working on a character, which involves clicking the mouse and letting the game do it for you, sure they may be novel at the start, but it all gets repetitive. We need to develop VR technology and make that mmorpg, like in that movie where this programmer guy makes this medieval fantasy vr game and he can't use his kung fu to beat the last guy, then the corporation fires him and somewhere alogn the line they develop a vr that can kill you, and basically they capture prisoners (including the guy that is fired) and make them the targets for sport hunting, and some rich people gather to test out the new game, and one of them is the rich oil tycoon. can't remember the name, but in the end the game programmer beats the game with these two other guys and one by one they knock out the bad guys (the rich guys) and in the end he faces off withteh tyranical boss that fired him in teh same medieval game, and his virtual girlfriend (the one he cheated on his ugly real girlfriend with) helps him gain the courage and strength to win it over. I can't remember the name, but i think it was called "that movie where this programmer guy makes this medieval fantasy vr game and he can't use his kung fu to beat the last guy, then the corporation fires him and somewhere alogn the line they develop a vr that can kill you, and basically they capture prisoners (including the guy that is fired) and make them the targets for sport hunting, and some rich people gather to test out the new game, and one of them is the rich oil tycoon. can't remember the name, but in the end the game programmer beats the game with these two other guys and one by one they knock out the bad guys (the rich guys) and in the end he faces off withteh tyranical boss that fired him in teh same medieval game, and his virtual girlfriend (the one he cheated on his ugly real girlfriend with) helps him gain the courage and strength to win it over."

Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 5th Nov 2004 03:42
raven, since im probably not going to have a chance to make this mmorpg i been planning for yrs now (dont confuse with the mini thing im doing now), would you be interested in (once u get a team and put me in there somewhere) hearing out my idea and trying it out?

Ian T
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Posted: 5th Nov 2004 03:44
Oh my god, Froogle's selling out


Here we go again!
TRANSGRESS AND I SHALT BAN YE! (Just kidding...)
BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 5th Nov 2004 07:57
Multiplayer RPGs are cool because they typically involve that Baldur's Gate-ish combat system (point...click....practically real time), and you feel like you're actually this dude walking around kicking butt just chilling, maybe working toward a goal.

I really don't think it's worth a monthly fee though, the only games I've ever considered paying monthly for aren't even out yet (World of Warcraft and EQ2).
They just don't have a lasting appeal, you can just go in and chill with some other dudes and kill stuff. I'll go on Counterstrike to do that.
What about the quests? I'll fire up the snes and play teh old school RPGs if I want cool quests.

A game that needs more attention is Neverwinter Nights. Heavily multiplayer since the campaign isn't that big. Modding is the big thing so you can always just go to the community site and get a new adventure to play through, you can even have some friends join you, which is one of the appeals of MMOs.

Another game of this type that requires no monthly fee is Dungeon Siege, single player is cool but it's more fun to go through on COOP or lan. I played 8 hours of the multiplayer campaign of DS and it was the coolest RPG-related gaming experience I ever had.

Guild Wars seems to be taking this idea a step further, no monthly fee--but still MMO, maybe just not as big as say EQ/Ultima Online.

It's too bad TrueFantasy Live Online was cancelled (the Xbox MMO) I have no prob shelling out $50/annually, I do have a problem digging up $10 every month ($120 VS $50 annually.

I'll buy Guild Wars + the expansions to support their ideals because that's what we need. Either free MMOs or MMOs with cheap annual fees.

Crazy Donut Productions, Current Project: Project Starbuks
Sony stole our name!
Cian Rice
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Posted: 5th Nov 2004 08:22
I agree with the fee stuff, BCDP, what suprised me was Wow having a fee, it's like they'v[Blizzard] have scrapped battlenet! Is it just cuz the people behind it left to from Arenanet?

There is only one way to package shaolin: Shaolin Soccer...
BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 5th Nov 2004 08:24
Quote: " ArenaNet, a wholly-owned subsidiary of NCsoft Corporation, was founded by key members of the creative teams that developed the hit games Warcraft, StarCraft, and Diablo, as well as the Battle.net gaming network. ArenaNet will create a state-of-the-art, interactive game network and will design and publish premier multiplayer online games for a wide range of game players."


Just checked their site and found this.

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Sony stole our name!
Cian Rice
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Posted: 5th Nov 2004 08:27
And so? Do you think it's the reason for WoW having a fee? Because the guys behind Battle.net left?

There is only one way to package shaolin: Shaolin Soccer...
BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 5th Nov 2004 08:44
Probably, all the execs at Blizzard want more money. Notice how the only significant game they've released since their classics was Warcraft III?

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Sony stole our name!
Cian Rice
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Posted: 5th Nov 2004 09:03
You're right about that, and they have been delaying Starcraft Ghost...

There is only one way to package shaolin: Shaolin Soccer...
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 5th Nov 2004 10:24
Actually it is more likely that it is because of the Battle.net overhaul.

The guys who started Guild Wars left just after Blizzard changed hands from Sierra to Vivendi. Effectively they were never involved in World of Warcraft, and I never had any doubt that VU were not going to be charging a monthly fee for WoW. Sorry but how much things cost and such ends up publisher end, developers simply provide the titles and patches.

Starcraft Ghost hasn't been delayed yet, as you can't delay a game which has had *no official* release date. This said, look at VU over the past year... every single big game they've been involved with has been the subject of numerous delays, and more interestingly leaked versions.

Most of the Guild Wars team however, are from Blizzard North and Bizzard South; as I said from when VU took over. (this was good new for some as alot of very good jobs opened up )

On the note of the Fees though:
Well really there is alot to consider here.

Game Servers don't grow on trees, they must be provided somehow.
• allowing gamers to setup thier own servers. this is a mistake, for the simple reason; people are dishonest. Look at how many people steal or hack MMORPGs just to play them for nothing, or be better than everyone else.
now i would normally say imagine what that would be like if some fool controlled a server for it, but really just look at the free ultima : online servers.

• next alternative is really... what sort of payment for servers do you want?
Monthly Fee, $10/mo * 12 = $120/yr
Upgrade Fee, $30/6mo * 2 = $60/yr (less but still quite alot)

it's more a case of which is going to hit your bank book less in the short term.
there is no such thing as a 'free' mmorpg, simply becauser servers generally are percistant; which means not only is it the cost of purchasing the servers, the line rentals, but also the electricity to run them.

even with the prices, mmorpgs tend to make only a slim profit margin. and you have to balance between gaining more customers, and making enough to not have to close the game down.

MMO like UT2004 or Battlefield:1942 doesn't suffer this problem because you don't need a server with an awesomely fast connection capable of handling thousands of people at once, and you can also turn it on/off as needed.

If electricity was free, and decent connections cost hundreds/yr rather than thousands; perhaps it would be possible to provide cheap online solutions.


Mytho
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Posted: 5th Nov 2004 12:25 Edited at: 5th Nov 2004 12:53
look at runescape, you'll see a huge profit margin there, with only a 5$ a month charge on its users.

it all depends on how you manage things.


edit * does anyone know how halo 2 is managing their multiplayer?

Its the product that counts, not the method.
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 5th Nov 2004 12:58
Problem with that is Runescape is a very different type of MMORPG, infact technically it isn't even an RPG.

Runescape is definately up there with 'special cases', and actually when you look at it; just like Cybertown and NeoAngel, it is more of an Online Community w/RPG Elements.

• Then world is not persistant • That is the major point of an MMO game. While MMO is just for an online networked game that has a huge number of players, generally speaking during play the world is the exact same for everyone. This includes FPS/RTS games.
Runescape is Java-based and only seems to update other player positions, everything else is done Client-Side.

• While i'm open to say that Runescape could pass as an RPG, really in true concious i can't. • It is hard to explain why i feel this, but really don't see Runescape as an RPG but more of a Community.

infact this is how the game is setup and can run on a cheaper webhost rather than a hundred odd servers. becuase it is effectively a java front-end forum & chatroom. using a database per area, while you could say 'yeah that's an rpg though' ... i would say it has more in comming with Legend of the Green Dragon, than Everquest


BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 5th Nov 2004 13:34
So where's Guild Wars going to get its server money while they're developing more expansions to sell to people?

And I see how to have a truly persistent MMORPG world you need beefy servers, but the pricing is still pretty ridiculous. It has gotten better, I see more commonly subscription fees around $12-$15, but I remember seeing the earlier MMOs were $30/mo.
If they want to expand on this new multiplayer revolution we need more things like Battle.net, Guildwars, Dungeon Siege, and Neverwinter Nights because many of the casual audience gamers are 9 years olds who play consoles and one or two big-hitter pc titles like the Sims or Roller Coaster Tycoon. I remember being 9 years old and I would have been crazy to think I could get $30 a month to play this big cool game. Not saying it's not profitable, but they're missing out on a big audience.

Crazy Donut Productions, Current Project: Project Starbuks
Sony stole our name!
Great Knight
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Posted: 5th Nov 2004 15:16 Edited at: 5th Nov 2004 15:21
Can someone suggest a good MMORPG. FF Online is really starting to get me mad.

At the end I do not know. Every online RPG i played has stupid gameplay rules. Comeon I hate it when I can not create a charater I want, because the company that made the game can not do any thing right when they made the game. And most players are not fun to play with(besides ultima) because they complain too much about not playing there way and the way they think you should play.

Phantasy Star Online-was fun for awhile. Liked the actual missions instead of sit in one spot and level up for 5 hours.

Ultimonline- had a account from 1997. the game just got bored at a end no freidns really played. Stoped on 2004 about. LOVED the house system and how you can have custom houses now.

Everquest-Got lost int the dark then died then quit. I Did not like this game much. Can not even pick where to start.

Star Wars Galaxies-Never played.
Priston Tale-Never Played;
Ragnarok-Never played.

Guild Wars-Since its free to play this game online. I am going to get it.
Final Fantasy XI-Worse Communitie ever. Every one complains how you make your charaters and use them and work with them.Great Charater Models and nice weapon models.

Earth & Beyond-Never played.

Asherons Call-That game was fun. I by accident fell off a tower buy jumping happy. I died lol. You can JUMP!!!!. Great Fantasy world.

Are you a leader or follower.
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 5th Nov 2004 22:21
yeah, your right... the community really is what makes a game.

Earth&Beyond is being shut down, the MMO has run it's course and now it's over. But it used to be an awesome game and there is a chance that early next year you might see an Annex server running it; there is already one planned for Ultimaddessy

PSO was awesome, but then i've only played the GC versions. The new one is a cool card game which extends 1&2

Can't say I ever liked Everquest either, and Everquest2 is almost identical aparently cept for the fact it has Shader graphics (doesn't make the game awesome, alot of doom & tomb raider fans can vouch for this!)

SWG is/was awesome, unfortunately i moved to the UK before they let any old person have jedi powers and not got around to getting it here.

Priston Tale is good, but after a while becomes too linear and samey to be fun. Plus the older graphics with nothing particularly special don't exactly help matters. It was good while it is free though.

Ragnarok is fun, probably as developed as Ultima : Online and a very similar community. The graphics although retro in style are very stylistic for the game itself, reminds me alot of Grandia which is never a bad thing Plus the starting movie is damn high quality japanime

FFXI, i played that stateside and it was awesome; but after hearing so many god damn US players bitching all the time, i moved to the prodominantly japanese sections where all they tend to talk about are girls... or if there is a girl try and hit on her, which amuses me ^_^

Asherons Call - never played.

really UO was the best for just SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO long it wasn't funny. infact if it wasn't for work, i'd never of stopped playing that.


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