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Geek Culture / Radeon 9600XT Issue

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Dave J
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Posted: 14th Nov 2004 14:48
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Ok, I'm assuming this problem is actually because of my graphics card. Some games will run fine (Max Payne 2, NHL 2005, Painkiller, etc), however, other games will cause my computer to suddenly reset (SW Battlefront, Jedi Academy, Far Cry), for instance, I may be playing the Theed level in Battlefront and then a few minutes in, my computer will quickly turn black and the startup sequence will appear, however, I've noticed the first Naboo level does not cause this to happen. Since the same thing happens with Far Cry, I've come to the assumption that it must be high quality graphics that's causing the problem, however, setting everything on low makes absolutely no difference and then I noticed Jedi Academy is causing problems as well.

Jedi Academy used to work on my old Radeon 7000, and I've got the exact same system, however, ever since my upgrade to a 9600XT, the computer will reset everytime I load that acid rain level, even though the very first level will work (note: I haven't tried any others). Some quick searches on the net show quite a few people are having problems with the 9600XT, and some suggested solutions were to lower the AGP speed and disable fastwrite. So I progressively lowered the AGP speed from 4x until I discovered 1x works... at least for a little while, I can play through Academy for a while but when I reload it does that reset thing again, also note that if I reload straight away it doesn't reset, it's only after I've played through it for a while. I haven't tried any other games on 1x because I'm certain it'll still happen.

I'm 99% sure it's not a heating issue, because it will occur even if I've just turned my computer on. Any ideas?


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Ian T
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Posted: 14th Nov 2004 15:09
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The only thing that could possibly do that, I think, is your motherboard or PSU. Chances are your PSU simply isn't powerful enough to handle your video card at full steam or after a certain amount of runtime with a lot of speed, and it shorts out. Try to calculate the power cost of your mobo, and all cards and drives to check it out.

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Dave J
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Posted: 14th Nov 2004 15:28 Edited at: 14th Nov 2004 15:31
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Yeah, the thought crossed my mind but I dismissed it because I've always used the same power supply, but I guess the new card could still use more power even on the same game so you're probably right. I still hope it's something much simpler because PSU's don't come cheap.


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Ian T
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Posted: 14th Nov 2004 15:47
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The power drain from a 9600XT would be much higher than that from a 7000-- they're several epochs apart and it gets more expensive every time. If it's anything like its nVidia competitors I think it'd need a 350w at the very least, more if you've got other powerful hardware. But I don't know a lot about it-- you could probably find the presise information on the box.

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DeepBlue
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Posted: 14th Nov 2004 16:35 Edited at: 14th Nov 2004 16:55
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I've had this several times on PC's & servers where it has turned out to be driver related. Depending on what is happening the driver seems to try & write data to either the reset interupt or the soft reset bios address.

Had a case where a server rebooted everytime someone printed Outlook messages, but worked fine for everything else. Replaced with a different driver & everything was fine.

If it does not turn out to be your PSU I would check all of your drivers, even co-existance of drivers is sometimes a major problem. I've even had problems with graphics drivers & it has turned out to be the sound driver actually causing the problem (don't forget all those nice BIOS & chipset updates as well).

[Edit]
Done some more reading on your specific problem that I'm sure you've done all of the following:

Download latest Catalyst drivers (4.9)
Install DirectX 9c
Disable vpu-recover
Disable fast-write agp
Change agp 8x to agp 4x

The above seems to have cured 80% of everyone who seemed to have had a similar problem, other option seems to be to use the Omega drivers http://www.omegadrivers.net/

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DeepBlue

The coder formerly known as Twynklet.
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Posted: 14th Nov 2004 18:58 Edited at: 14th Nov 2004 19:02
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just as an aside, when I had problems with graphics cards getting fried due to the manufacturers not putting enough cooling in, I had the same problem with sudden resets or XP reporting "serious error..driver unloaded while in use" (or something like that), I found it was down to the card overheating (Farcry did it a lot...must have been the extra load of the shaders), I now have a heatsink the size of a brick on my third video card, try running the machine with the side off the case, if it stops crashing then nip down PC world with a tenner and get a GPU (video card) cooler, they do a big "eats the pci slot below" thing with a fan on the end and a speed switch for a tenner, recomended for 9800 video cards, I recommend it, had no issues since I installed it.

Mentor.

PS: don`t try this if you are not savvy with PC internals, you need to warm the card to remove the old heatsink and clean off the old goo before you install the new one, and you need to be able to follow instructions properly (ie...read the box...it may not be that obvious)

PC1: P4 3ghz, 1gig mem, 3x160gig hd`s, Radeon 9800pro w cooler (3rd gfx card), 6 way speakers.
PC2: AMD 2ghz, 512mb ram, FX5200 ultra, 16 bit SB.
Mini ATX cases suck.
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Dave J
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Posted: 14th Nov 2004 19:52
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Quote: "Done some more reading on your specific problem that I'm sure you've done all of the following:"


Yeah, those were the things I found as well so I've tried them all, cleaning out all traces of my old drivers and then doing a fresh install of the new ones was the first thing I did but it made no difference at all. Thanks anyway, though.

It's really starting to think it is indeed the PSU though, I had a closer look at the PSU itself to try and find the power rating but couldn't find a manufacturer or any other details at all, it looks like some cheap one I bought years ago with the only thing marked on it being a "240V AC" stuck on the back, which is obviously the input voltage. I think I'm going to have to go out and buy a new PSU and hopefully pray that it solves the problem.

Thanks for all the help, guys.


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Dave J
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Posted: 9th Dec 2004 20:42
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Ok, after some vast and varied testing, I still haven't found the problem. However, hopefully I have a little more information that might give someone an idea of what is wrong.

To recap, when I play various games (SW Battlefront, JK Jedi Academy, Far Cry), my computer will suddenly reset and load the boot sequence again. This seems to be a problem with my Radeon 9600XT, but not directly, maybe it's not compatible with something else in my system? Anyway, I swapped my card with an nVidia GeForce4 TI 4800 SE and the games ran fine, no reset. Incidentally, I put my Radeon into the similar machine I took the GeForce out of, and the games also ran fine again. So it appears that my graphics card is the cause of the problem, but it's not a fault in the card itself because it still works in other systems.

Now comes the odd part, I accidentally ruined the IDE cable connecting my two hard drives to the motherboard and so replaced it. Now, when I play Battlefront, instead of it resetting as soon as the level has loaded, I can actually get a fair bit of play (5-10 minutes) in before it resets. Would anyone have any idea why the IDE cable would have any affect on this? It makes no sense to me at all.

In any case, the problem still exists but it's not as severe. Also, I tried swapping my PSU with a 480W supply (which I tested in the other system which worked with my Radeon) and it makes no difference.

This is very baffling.


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bitJericho
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Posted: 10th Dec 2004 04:10
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try cleaning your computer


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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 10th Dec 2004 04:23
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Sounds like Classic PSU issues, I have this too currently with my FX5200 since upgrading the processor from a Duron to an AthlonXP.
The power consumption in the background means, I have any USB devices attached in heavy shader games the GPU takes too much power for my 250w PSU to handle.

Of course it's a case of a £10 and making my way down to RL Supplies, but the question is more time I have to do it.

You'll probably find that some of your old cables are causing the power to ground somewhere along the line... For a 9600XT you'll need atleast a 320w PSU, to play demanding games.
Make sure that all the leads from your PSU are not frayed, and that all of the other leads (particularly C80 (S)ATA Cables) are good).

The problem with systems now is the components are not built to last as people are expected to update every few months, so generally unless you purchase hi-quality hardware.. you'll end up with problems.


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dark coder
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Posted: 10th Dec 2004 04:55
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:o, some telecenetic stuff going on here, my card atm is a radeon 7000 series and i won the 9600xt in then compo, i hope i dont have similar problems


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Benjamin
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Posted: 10th Dec 2004 06:33
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A had a similar problem, but it went since I reinstalled windows.

Just my -2 cents..

CURRENT PROJECT: Chaos Hizzle Demo
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Dave J
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Posted: 10th Dec 2004 06:35 Edited at: 10th Dec 2004 06:37
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Well, I'm pretty sure it's not the PSU as I switched my dodgy one with a 480W PSU from my other system and it still reset the computer as soon as I entered the level, it wasn't until I replaced the IDE cable that I was able to actually get in around 5 minutes of play before it reset.

Thanks anyway though.

Yeah, I was thinking about giving my computer a fresh Windows install, but it really isn't a preference because I hate backing up and I know that as soon as I've formatted my computer I'll remember something that I forgot to backup.


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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 10th Dec 2004 08:28
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As you mentioned about the IDE Cable, I suggest you check all of the internal connections.
If the GeForce and older Radeon ran the game fine but the 9600XT doesn't this means it's down to internals, or drivers.

As the IDE Cable gave you extra time, this would suggest there is something wrong internally... possibly with the mobo.
Just switch parts you can to eliminate possibilities is what i'd suggest.


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Eric T
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Posted: 10th Dec 2004 08:35
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This same thing happened to me... i've been using AGP4x since, and not had a problem. My PSU is beyond what i need for everything... i think its a problem with the:

A) 9600XT itself
B) the damn AMD64 takes alot of power (would have to be over 300watts)
C) The official drivers (i'll try the omega's later... when i feel like dealing with it)

Happened with any games that had shaders... never happened with none shader games (HL1 played fine... but Doom3 would die in the first 5 minutes).

You know who I pray to? Joe Pesci. He looks like a guy who can get things done. Joe Pesci doesn't **** around. In fact, Joe Pesci came through on a couple of things that god was having trouble with.
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Dave J
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Posted: 10th Dec 2004 09:00
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Hmmm, yeah, I thought I must have had a faulty card but I was surprised to find that it worked fine in my other machine, so it must be conflicting with something else in this specific PC.

Oddly, Doom 3 ran fine for me (albeit, fairly slowly) and it never crashed once. I've also tried a wide ranged of drivers, from Catalyst 3.5 all the way through to 4.11 and so far none of them make a difference. Likewise, changing the AGP speed to 1x only delayed the 'reset' for a little while.

I'm almost thinking about switching all my hardware components with the ones in the computer that does work but it's usually a very long and tiring process. Failing that, I'd simply switch this card for the GeForce4, but I'd really like to keep a card that can handle VS 2.0 and PS 2.0, rather than switching it for a card with just VS 1.1 and PS 1.3.


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Benjamin
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Posted: 10th Dec 2004 09:26
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I'm guessing it could be DirectX or the drivers. I have experienced the exact same problems, the pc resetting after starting up a game. Sometimes it used to happen instantly, other times it would do it after about 5 mins.

Of course, I don't have the same GFX card as you so I'm not sure what that rules out..

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Wiggett
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Posted: 12th Dec 2004 18:57
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dang, i got a 9600xt too, just put it on after formatting, hope ja doesnt crash on my machine cause thats the only gam ei got that looks pretty. other than sun crusher of course

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Dave J
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Posted: 12th Dec 2004 20:07
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Well I know people who have 9600XT's that run without a problem. I'm guessing it's some other hardware, possibly the RAM, I'm not sure. Failing that, I might just try reformatting my PC.


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