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Geek Culture / Old, but a truely revolutionary game.

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Rye
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Posted: 24th Nov 2004 05:28
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Half-Life 2 physics - Not really that amazing

Seriously!

I don’t want people posting their opinions on Half-Life 2 because I couldn’t care less. I just thought I would show people this other game.

This game was released in 1998, and because the best computer out was a 300mhz with a 16 MB 3dfx card, the game didn’t run well at all on an average machine. As a result it got smashed to bits by bad reviews.
On an extra note I think the hardware water it had surpasses that of many recent games.

So what is his game I am talking about...?

TRESPASSER

i have searched high and low for screens of the water , and cant find any. If you go here there are some of the game:

http://diehard.ath.cx/~trescom/

None really show the physics though. You need to play it really.

Many of he puzzles in the game require the physics, such as shooting down a crate of a ledge so you can jump onto it and reach a high place.

There are load of objects just like in half life 2 that have full realistic physics. If you can download the demo from somewhere I suggest you do (just found it at file planet). It’s only small but it gives a great impression of the game and its physics. Only problem is it may not work with new hardware.

In the demo you are on the top of a high platform. If you jump you fall to your death. You have to shoot the supports of a static caravan at the top of a hill. The caravan rolls crashing down the hill to the base of the platform. You can now survive the fall.

There are many ideas in the game that since have never been replicated. Such as the arm and the health.

Although I compared the physics o Half Life 2 I don’t mean they are better or even as good (although quite close to HL2). Trespassers’ physics are truly amazing for its time; they just need smoothing out a bit. (There is a small chance that stacking crates will make the whole thing start rattling and eventually explode) But remember this game was released in 1998, that’s 6 years old, about the time of quake 2.

If anyone knows of another game that is amazing and ahead of its time but never took off, please post info.
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Ian T
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Posted: 24th Nov 2004 05:43
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Well, System Shock pioneered stealth gameplay, though contrary to popular belief it was actually a success sales-wise. Not many people seem to know about it now. Very innovative and fun though .

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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 24th Nov 2004 05:50
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I dont know about ahead of its time (it was quite simple) but one of my most favourite games EVER is called Uplink. Its a hacker game. The reason I post is I dont think it ever took off like it should have as people see the word Hacker and think "geek", "too hard", etc.. That game had me playing for about 12 hours straight! It would have been more but I had to leave for an exam

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Neofish
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Posted: 24th Nov 2004 05:52
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Uplink is great

[center]int N30F15H,a=1; do { N30F15H++; } while (a==1);
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Chris K
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Posted: 24th Nov 2004 06:00 Edited at: 24th Nov 2004 06:00
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Look for a freeware game called J.D Spy.

That is truly revolutionary. It's hard to explain but you really become the character of the game.

For example, someone emails you (in the game) asking you to find out some information and you actually have to go on google and search for this info.

Don't worry, it's not boring, it's really exciting. Good storyline aswell. It starts with an error message with a hidden meaning.

I think Mouse would like it. Dunno why.

EDIT___________-

Here - http://mjacobs_ca.tripod.com/spy.htm
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Rye
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Posted: 24th Nov 2004 06:30 Edited at: 24th Nov 2004 06:31
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i have played system shock and SS 2. both amazing games. Sysem shock 1 was ahead of its time but 2 didnt really have anything that new to offer other than RPG in a FPS.

I dont remeber using stealth in SS1, i tended to just run around blasting everything i could. SS2 had some stealth, but mainly a lot of running away.

One of the main points about SS2 was how scary it was. I think it is equally as scary as doom 3 on some levels.

As for uplink, ive got that somewhere, i found it really addictive for about 2 weeks, but then i just got bored and deleted it.

I will try and gt some screens of Trespasser, i dont think i have room for the install tho.
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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 24th Nov 2004 07:34
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You found doom 3 scary? I thought it was too obvious.. To put it in text RPG terms..

You're in a dark room..
You've just picked up some ammo..
Nothing's happened for a while!
Oh no.
Oh dear me.
A large dark shadow thing has jumped up and..
Oh its dead..

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 24th Nov 2004 08:00
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Oh God, I remember Trespasser - it was terrible. Sure it had quite nice faked physics for the time, but the control method was utterly dire and ruined the entire game. You spent ages waving that damned arm around trying to do anything, but ultimately just knocking everything over before you even had a chance to shoot the dinos. Slated by the mags? Yes. For good reason? Yes!

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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 24th Nov 2004 08:08
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OH THATS IT!! I rememeber trying a demo on that.. That was one of the shortest lived installs ever! Good idea tho..

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 24th Nov 2004 08:31
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Heh, i remember staring at her breasts alot... had this cool heart tatoo that was your health bar
But the arm was SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO damn annoying.

I think I remember making it over that big gate area, just to find a sodding T-Rex on the other side. If they'd sorted out the controls properly it could've been a very good game though


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Rye
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Posted: 24th Nov 2004 18:12
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Faked physics? How do you mean. I thought having an object with properties such as mass was good. if you check out the editor you can simply place objects into the game and they automatically have physics. how is this fake.

I know the physics were not perfect but what do you expect. One thing i noticed about the first level is if you hrow things in the water then they sink/float depending on what it is. (rocks sink, wood floats)

@ Raven, hehehe i thought that her breasts were pure genius, it keeps realism. I liked the way you knew how much ammo you had. when you select a gun she says something like "about twenty" or "empty".

Considering loads of game makers are trying to get realism, i'm surprised we dont see more breasts and spoken ammo counts.

If you redefine the keys and ignore most of the arm commands then the controls are fairly easy. You dont need to bother with rotate arm etc. just exend as right click shoot as left. standard fps controls (w s a d), f as throw, r as switch weapon. OK so it takes a while to get used to but that is because it is different. But with all things, pracice makes perfect.
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 24th Nov 2004 19:06
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/makementalnote="Breast Health & Spoken Ammo adds realism!"

the game was good, but awekard. Non of the demo links work though, tried to download it last nite.

Back when I had a P2-266 / 512MB / SiS 6236 was the last time i tried to play it.. and my SiS just, well lets be frank my 5 yo brother can draw faster and better!

so would be nice to see how play on this system


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Rye
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Posted: 24th Nov 2004 22:36
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I managed to find room to install it. 375 mb install. runs brill, but i have to run it in hardware. gonna get the 32mb patch, i remember that it adds graphics options. i will add screens later.
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Luke B
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Posted: 25th Nov 2004 02:59
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don't flame me for this, but i think unreal 1 was excellent. turn the settings up full, using direct3d to render, in 1024 by 768 and it looks amazing for a 1997/1998 game. it had decent physics, damn good lighting and excellent gameplay> the intro to the skaarj if anyone remembers that . definitely my favourite game ever, although halo 1 comes close

TI 126Mhz, 584MB RAM, no HDD, 320x320 screen... wait that's my Palm
>> Athlon XP 2400+, 512MB RAM, 120GB HDD, XP Pro SP2 with DX 9.0c
Want an eight way Opteron *workstation*
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Ian T
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Posted: 25th Nov 2004 06:22
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Quote: "but i think unreal 1 was excellent"


Of course it was! Totally revolutionary in the graphics and AI department, new level of immersion, beat the living crap out of Quake 2.

Quote: "looks amazing for a 1997/1998 game"


Anyone who says it doesn't is high


Now as to Trespasser-- got the demo, BLARGH, bloody pain. The arm is indeed one of the worst implemented ideas I've ever seen. Different keys to rotate the shoulder and wrist? WTF? I really like the idea of the dynamic, universal interaction, but they really overdid it. Shame because this is the earliest example of a HUDless shooter I've ever seen, and the idea really does have a lot of potential.

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Neofish
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Posted: 25th Nov 2004 06:37
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Unreal Tournament 1 is amazing in my view. Ground Control is great. Errrrr....

[center]int N30F15H,a=1; do { N30F15H++; } while (a==1);
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Rye
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Posted: 25th Nov 2004 06:47 Edited at: 25th Nov 2004 06:48
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Mouse, u need to ignore the rotate stuff and concentrate on just picking stuff up, it automatically aims the gun to begin with. but holding left mouse and moving it helps aiming.

The main point i wanted to make about the game was its physics, they are amazing for 1998.

here is a screen of the water, i threw a log into it, just look at those pretty ripples. they refract and everything. and they make that other floating thing move.

It doesnt look as good as it should, because i have to run it in software.

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Dave J
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Posted: 25th Nov 2004 07:30
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The one thing I've got to hand to Trespasser is the fact that it appears to be a Jurassic Park: Lost World licensed game, but it doesn't promote that fact in any way and instead strives for innovation. Instead, it only relies on Lost World for the storyline, and not the gameplay.


"Computers are useless - They can only give you answers."
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Ian T
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Posted: 25th Nov 2004 07:32
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Actually it's based on Crigton(sp)'s final novel in that series .

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Eric T
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Posted: 25th Nov 2004 07:35
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Michael Crichton (I only know from reading Timeline and Rising Sun).

Yeah, I used to have Trespasser, could never really get into the game, was just to annoying.

Bleh, I've just given up on trying to think up signatures.
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Major Payn
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Posted: 25th Nov 2004 11:00
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I remember I saw this game in a walmart one time when I was like 9 and I was like "OMG dinasaurs, so kool" but I never got it, mainly because I didn't have a computer

Guns arnt the problem, people are the problem, shoot all the people and guns arnt a problem anymore.
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Wiggett
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Posted: 25th Nov 2004 16:20
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Quote: ""awekard""


awkward.

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 25th Nov 2004 22:47
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Quote: "awekard"


Now that's a cool typo Sounds like a new ATI card name or something. Featuring: AWEcard!

(Actually, Creative would probably sue them)

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Van B
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Posted: 25th Nov 2004 22:54
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Sounds a little like that old game Robinsons Requeim, well it's not that old, it's about the same time frame as Legends of Valour, like the first 3D adventures.

Robinsons was technically astounding, but a fairly dull game - I think it was made by the same guys as the awesome and beautiful Ishar series. It even let you heal yourself, you had injuries and hunger and real world problems - AND dinosaurs .


Van-B


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Benjamin
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Posted: 25th Nov 2004 23:47
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Quote: "Of course it was! Totally revolutionary in the graphics and AI department"

Well uh, for an fps game maybe . A sega saturn RPG game that came out around that time called Panzer Dragoon Saga had stunning visuals for its time, they were(I think) a lot better than most of the other games out around that time, but unfortunatly it never reached many people because it was the time the sega saturn was almost dead.

I'll try and find some screenshots..

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Benjamin
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Posted: 25th Nov 2004 23:56
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Unfortunatly I couldn't find the best ones, but these are fairly good.

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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 25th Nov 2004 23:57
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The second one says "Attach with homing laser".. I was unaware a laser could be homing! Once you have set a laser beam on its way, unless you can project a VERY large gravitational force faster than the speed of light to effect its direction.. If you miss you miss! Lol..

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Benjamin
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Posted: 26th Nov 2004 00:06
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lol. That game was a truely amazing game in the way FF7 was.

AKA teh great Pet Rat.
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Luke B
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Posted: 26th Nov 2004 01:18
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@Benjamin

Compare those screens to this...

TI 126Mhz, 584MB RAM, no HDD, 320x320 screen... wait that's my Palm
>> Athlon XP 2400+, 512MB RAM, 120GB HDD, XP Pro SP2 with DX 9.0c
Want an eight way Opteron *workstation*

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Luke B
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Posted: 26th Nov 2004 01:19
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Oh, and if you think that woz done in a lightmap editor like giles, no its realtime, I turned the lights off in this screen...

TI 126Mhz, 584MB RAM, no HDD, 320x320 screen... wait that's my Palm
>> Athlon XP 2400+, 512MB RAM, 120GB HDD, XP Pro SP2 with DX 9.0c
Want an eight way Opteron *workstation*

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Luke B
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Posted: 26th Nov 2004 01:40
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Nice water...again Unreal 1.

Just been playing the bit with the first skaarj - more scary than doom 3

and another thing - i noticed that if i shot the blue plasma gun while there was red light it made a purple shadow - wow

TI 126Mhz, 584MB RAM, no HDD, 320x320 screen... wait that's my Palm
>> Athlon XP 2400+, 512MB RAM, 120GB HDD, XP Pro SP2 with DX 9.0c
Want an eight way Opteron *workstation*

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 26th Nov 2004 01:46
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Quote: "The second one says "Attach with homing laser"."


It says 'Attack', it's just a funky font.

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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 26th Nov 2004 01:57 Edited at: 26th Nov 2004 01:57
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"Attack with Homing Laser"

[center]

And thus I rest my case Hehe

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 26th Nov 2004 02:30
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And I rest mine (read my post again! the typo wasn't in the screen shot - I thought that you thought it said 'attach', coz that is what you wrote - ack.. head, hurting.. back to playing NFS2.

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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 26th Nov 2004 02:58
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Ahh.. LOL My bad!! Hahaha..

Is NFSU2 any good? The ads on TV make it look uncannily the same as NFSU1..

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Benjamin
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Posted: 26th Nov 2004 03:02
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@CodeKid: Compared to the screenshots I'm talking about, those unreal ones are crap . Now if I only I could find them..

And uh..the water in Panzer Dragoon is a lot more realistic than that

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 26th Nov 2004 03:06
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Quote: "Is NFSU2 any good? The ads on TV make it look uncannily the same as NFSU1.."


Only got the demo from PC Gamer, but yeah it's very similar - I always did spend more time painting my car than racing it, but it was good fun none-the-less.

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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 26th Nov 2004 03:21
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Ahh u use it on the PC.. An even better review for me is now available Hehe..

Quote: "good fun none-the-less"


but better? Worth the £30-£40 they want for it (and every modern game now)?

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Dave J
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Posted: 26th Nov 2004 07:42
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Quote: "Oh, and if you think that woz done in a lightmap editor like giles, no its realtime, I turned the lights off in this screen..."


You can use 2 different lightmaps, then just alternate between them for 'Light On' and 'Light Off'. You don't need real-time lighting, for that.


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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 26th Nov 2004 13:40
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Need For Speed 2 looks almost identical to Need For Speed 1, however the Shaders are better optimised, plus there are new gameplay modes. It has a little GTA or Test Drive 3 about it now.
It's alot of fun!

Honestly they could've made it an addon pack for the PC version, but it is pretty cool.

As for Coolkids screenshots.. you know there appears to be a bug in the script. I don't know how many other Explorer users can view them, but I get a download dialog. In FireFox it shows though, I hope that this isn't the admin pandering to the browser he likes; because it did USED to work in Explorer.


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Nicholas Thompson
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The problem could very well lie in that Microsoft kinda ignored a LOT of the rules of the internet laid out by the people that made the standard (W3??). A LOT (and I mean a LOT) of CSS is missing.. That means you have to replace a lot of functions with Javascript which some people turn off for security reasons.

I much prefer Firefox, but thats just my opinion. I dont understand why people dont like it and still use IE. The only time I use IE is to use the Windows Update site as I think they have specifically designed it to work with IE only (again another GREAT achievement by M$).

Anyways.. Do you think NFSU2 is worth BUYING if I have NFSU1? I played 1 for about a week and got bored of it. Am I likely to waste £30+ on a new game?

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Benjamin
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Posted: 26th Nov 2004 17:33
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Quote: "I hope that this isn't the admin pandering to the browser he likes; because it did USED to work in Explorer."

Sorry mate, I think I heard Rich say he designed it for firefox

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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 26th Nov 2004 17:51
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Bearing in mind it also tells you to get firefox at the bottom right of every page Hehe..

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Dave J
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Posted: 26th Nov 2004 19:52
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Do not turn this into another IE vs FireFox debate.


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Benjamin
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Posted: 26th Nov 2004 21:52
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lol sorry Exeat, I was actually gonna say that too.

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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 26th Nov 2004 22:57
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Oh why? They're so much fun! Hehe..

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Eric T
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Posted: 27th Nov 2004 07:53
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Picked up NFSU2 today for the PC.... not a bad game, not good either. Just one of those games you can play on a lazy weekend.

Still not impressed with "EA Trax" though, but they did improve it a bit.

Bleh, I've just given up on trying to think up signatures.
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 27th Nov 2004 08:14
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NFSU2 really us more of an online game.. while the offline stuff is cool, it isn't until you start playing online, more competitive style with your tricked out cars. That's when it gets interesting.

Personally I think they should change it so you have to start from the bottom online and then earn the car you take onto the tracks against others.
Also would be cool if you could get given Nicknames by other drivers, just like real-life .. that way you have your username then your tag name. Also means your not just some looser making up his/her own name.

They need things to be far more account based in it.
But it is quite fun to kick back and play... just no like an OMFG game though heh.


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Eric T
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Posted: 27th Nov 2004 08:21
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Online was being a pain at first, wouldn't log onto my EA account, etc.

Then I played offline for a few, then for some reason it logged in when i tried after that. :/

Till i get much better cars though, the online is useless.

Bleh, I've just given up on trying to think up signatures.
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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 27th Nov 2004 09:32
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So........ Its NFSU1 with online capability? Physics the same? To me from ads, GFX looks the same...

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