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Work in Progress / Lemmings is NOT dead! New Demo available!

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Avan Madisen
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Posted: 29th Nov 2004 20:45 Edited at: 29th Nov 2004 20:46
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Hi all

It's been ages since I updated lemmings, so long I had to re-aquant myself with how I'd written some of the code!

Anyway, I've uploaded the new version, 0.45, not quite what I was planning for the next update since some things have happened. I realised I'd forgotten a few things, 'hazards', like the traps and the water. I've got the animated water working, it uses physics rather then the old pre-determined animation. I haven't quite sorted the traps yet, but I'm working on them.

I've made some changed to the demo level to make better use of the actions, and reduced the number lemmings back to the original 100, 250 is impressive to see, but isn't really necessary. I've also got multiple entrances and exits working.

The most important update to this version is the addition of some music, now I'm not talking some remade midi version of the lemmings music, oh no. I've only put in one track, but I'll let you all download and hear for yourselves!

http://www.geocities.com/avanmadisen/projects/pages/lemmings.html

This is the webpage where you can download the demo and few screen shots, sorry if anyone has trouble with Geocities, but since dbspot shutdown I had to go back to a pathetic free server.

To install, just extract the .exe file and run it, that will install Lemmings to a folder of your choosing, read the readme.txt file, and enjoy.

I would appreciate it if people could test this on old systems, like pentium 3 and even pentium 2 (or equivalent) systems, to see how they manage. I'd like to try and come up with a minimum spec for this.

Thanks.

Avan

I don't suffer from insanity:

I enjoy every minute of it!
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Snaz
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Posted: 29th Nov 2004 20:56
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im downloading the demo now
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Van B
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Posted: 29th Nov 2004 21:05 Edited at: 29th Nov 2004 21:08
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Having some trouble with that webpage, it might just be my firewall at work - but it's good to know your still working on it - the last demo I tried rocked .

EDIT:
Ahh, it does work, it's just suffering from geocity congestion - will try it out on my home PC tonight.


Van-B


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pizzaman
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Posted: 29th Nov 2004 23:41 Edited at: 29th Nov 2004 23:41
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Thats really good - I was wondering where this had got too - anyways the demo is fantastic. It surpasses the original IMOA.

Also I saved all 100 well not really hard too. There is one thing, thank you putting the fast forward feature in it would have taken ages for all the lemmings to reach the bottom.

Anyways Good Work - hope you manage to make it into a full game
pizzaman

PS - It ran at about 60 FPS, PC Specs as follows

CPU : Pentium 4, 1.5 GHz
RAM : 256MB
GFX : Radeon 7000/Radeon VE
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Maleck
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Posted: 30th Nov 2004 00:51
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I loved Lemmings and it is nice ot see someone reviving it.

I installed it, but I get a bitmap missing errors at 374 or 87.

I am running on Win2000 SP3, DX 9.0c, PIII - 1.2, 512MB.
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Benjamin
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Posted: 30th Nov 2004 02:14
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I've never understood how to play lemmings.

AKA teh great Pet Rat.
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Chris K
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Posted: 30th Nov 2004 02:38
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The bashers don't seem to work.
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Van B
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Posted: 30th Nov 2004 03:34
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LOL!

I got lazy and used up all the climbers instead of bulding a ladder thing with the builders - so lem no.100 was left at the bottom. So I killed him .

The bashers worked fine for me - you were'nt trying to be lame and bash through the right hand side to the exit were you? - the blue stuff is inpenetrable.

Looking forward to the next installment.


Van-B


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Chris K
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Posted: 30th Nov 2004 03:59
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Yes I was trying to be lame.

But I'm not ashamed. Oh no.
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Avan Madisen
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Posted: 30th Nov 2004 04:10
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Maleck - could you check that for me, exactly what line is it returning? If you can tell me I'll have a look into it and try to figure out what's going on.

Everyone, try some different tactics to complete that level, there are many ways.

Just a small request, would some of you deliberately drown some lemmings? I just want you're opinions on the water effect.

Thanks for the comments.

Avan

PS: Any comments on the music?

I don't suffer from insanity:

I enjoy every minute of it!
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Avan Madisen
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2004 21:51
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Have I done something to offend people? I'm not getting much feedback, at all.

I don't suffer from insanity:

I enjoy every minute of it!
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Raceres
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2004 00:09
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No, you didn't offend anyone (that I know of). I had to register. The music is really good, and you got the lemmings spirit in there. I really like the pass button. The water is neat, but didn't notice anything "special" about drowning lemmings when I did it. But as soon as I finished the level, I got an error message, "runtime error 3005-sound voulume value illegal at line 2382". It ran fine on my computer, a Pentium Two, at 59 FPS.
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Avan Madisen
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2004 06:11
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Right, I know exactly where that sound error is coming from. I'll have to check my code, looks like I didn't write the fade out for the music correctly. Thanks for that.

The water is controlled by physics, so when you drown the lemmings it starts to ripple from the lemmings hitting it. That's all that's special with it, at the moment.

I get the impression from your system Raceres, that the minimum spec for this is going to much lower then the minimum for DBPro. Heck this will probably run playable on a Pentium!

Avan

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Baggers
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2004 06:53
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Nice work, i saw this the first time round and was always amazed how accurate it was. as a bit of research have a look at lemmings 2 Tribes http://home.wanadoo.nl/lemmings-solution/lemmings2/circus.html
the selection in that game was awesome, good memories there !
Besides that Looking damn good, and ill be back to check out what happens next..
Baggers
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Van B
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2004 07:53 Edited at: 3rd Dec 2004 07:57
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Avan, if you can use bitmaps in the level, perhaps you could make a special TGC version - like maybe the pyramid at the top that you have to dig through to get to the propper puzzle part. That'd be great for the newsletter - maybe even see who can beat it in the fastest time.

Gonna go drown some lems now .

EDIT: Ahh, see what you mean, looks cool - a little splash effect would top it off nicely.


Van-B


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Avan Madisen
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Posted: 4th Dec 2004 06:27
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Baggers - I was really only aiming for a remake of the original, I remember playing L2: Tribes on the Mega Drive, but I found most of the new actions just silly and pointless, kind of detracted from what the first one was. Thanks for the link though.

Van B - That's definately an idea, pyramid level, considering the size of map I can do I could make a huge pyramid! Or I could make a TGC theme for a series of levels. The water didn't take long to code, and since I've already got particle controlling I was planning on adding some splash and froth effects. My main concern at the moment is traps and grinders (I call them grinders because they basically are), the animation frames are the most difficult part of it.

Avan

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Maleck
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Posted: 4th Dec 2004 08:01
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I just tried redoanloading and when I ran it, I selected 800x600 and recieved the error "Bitmap does not exist at line 374"

Thanks.
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Avan Madisen
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Posted: 5th Dec 2004 06:56
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Line 374, thanks I'll check that.

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Maleck
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Posted: 5th Dec 2004 08:41
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No problem. i am interested in checking this out, but as no one else has this problem, it could just be something with my machine. I can see if I can get it working on another machine I have and let you know.

Thanks.
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The Wendigo
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Posted: 5th Dec 2004 17:29
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Nice job! I loved Lemmings. I'm so glad you are bringing it back! Me and one of my friends when I was younger had but a few games we loved: Snakes, Gorillas (you know, the one where you throw banannas at each other on top of buildings... QBasic) and Lemmings. It's nastalgic and revolutionized all in one! Keep it up !


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Avan Madisen
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Posted: 6th Dec 2004 05:36
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Maleck - I've checked my code and it seems your having problems with the backdrop creation, all it's doing around that point is creating the bitmaps for the backdrop. Since you're being given the wrong line by the program I can't really do much. You say you're running windows 2000, so I can only assume that's where the problem is. Sorry, not much else I do.

Wendigo - I remember all 3 of those, this is, Lemmings is the only one that doesn't get remade more times then anyone would care to could. Snake on mobile phones, and Gorillas isn't much different from Worms. I've seen a few lemmings remakes, but none of then capture what the original was, hense, my version! Thanks for the comments. By the way, whose cat is that in your avatar?

Avan

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walaber
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Posted: 6th Dec 2004 13:38
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I always wanted to make a top-down (possibly 3D) version of lemmings called "morons", where instead of changing the lemmings, you made changes to the environment around them to try and lead them to the "Goal"... I still think it would be a pretty cool game, if I ever get around to it I'll try making a 3D version

p.s. fantastic work!

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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Mind Storm 101
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Posted: 6th Dec 2004 14:33
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*Jots down what walaber said and skirries off to his Evil Underground... PC*

I was thinking something like that too , lol, but yeah, I loved it, very authentic... an I was unaware there was music... probably because my speakers were off... just mabey...

Think what you like, you'll all be mine in the end.
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Xander
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Posted: 7th Dec 2004 02:52
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The screenshots look cool, and very classical. I will try it out and provide feedback soon...

In the meantime...

Xander Moser - Bolt Software - Firewall
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Maleck
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Posted: 9th Dec 2004 13:25
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Thanks for checking into it. I will try running it on my other machine and see if it works. Hopefully as I am really eager to give this a run.
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LeaderOne
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Posted: 13th Dec 2004 20:36
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Haven't run it yet, but i've actually got lemmings for windows, so if you wnat some media i help.

I really suggest a lvel editor, 'cuase i love block and bomb levels.

"Chicken is nice"
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Avan Madisen
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Posted: 14th Dec 2004 00:03
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LeaderOne - I'm planning a level edittor, mainly because I'm not going to sit down and make all the levels myself, take too long. As far as the media is concerned, I have a question, how does the music in Lemmings for Windows compare to the music in my version?

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Van B
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Posted: 14th Dec 2004 00:20
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I have the Windows version too - the music is about the same actually, I think it's just .mid files (or about that quality) in the windows version, and it sounds like .mid on yours as well. I think the .mid style music suits it fine - they always sound nice and retro, perhaps get a .mp3 title tune would be cool though, like a remix of a Lemmings song as a .mp3 for the title, then a collection of .mids for during the game.

One thing... sorry 2 things...

Firstly, 2 player mode - I know it would'nt be a picnic, but I'd love a network Lemmings game. I was playing the original Lemmings on a Megadrive emulator with my little brother yesterday in 2 player mode, and it was damn good fun. There's a lot of data in a lemmings game, I'm hoping you liked the 2-player game as much as I did , there was nothing like killing all of mums precious lems .

Secondly, When walking up a ladder - like the builder dude, the lems should always build from their position so it lets you start building at any point on the existing 'ladder'. When building in your version, the lems just build 1 block then turn around - that's the only inconsistancy I've found - incredible bit of conversion it has to be said.


Van-B


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Avan Madisen
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Posted: 15th Dec 2004 07:20
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Van B - The music is actually a digitally recorded copy of the Amiga Pro Tracker music from the Acorn Achimedes version of Lemmings. Since the tracker is Amiga I'm assuming it's the actual music from the original Amiga version. That's why it sounds like Midi. Believe it or not, that is infact a Wav file, ~500kb since it's 8bit 11khz! I haven't got round to formatting it into mp3 yet.

Firstly, the builder problem, could you post a screen shot to highlight what you mean? I doesn't make much sense to me, what, exactly, are you trying to make the lemmings do?

Secondly, multiplayer lemmings, hmm, I've got the Mega Drive version emulated as well and I never got the hang of it really. I felt it was very limited in a multiplayer idea, co-operative games where the required actions are shared amoung the players could be downright frustrating (even more so then the game is normally) and a competitive mode would more often end in all players just killing everyone elses lemmings. Sorry, but I can't really see much fun in multiplayer Lemmings.

Quote: "incredible bit of conversion it has to be said"

Thanks!

Avan

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I enjoy every minute of it!
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LeaderOne
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Posted: 4th Jan 2005 10:48
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yes, there's like 10 midi files, but i was thinking of bitmaps, i.e. higher quality lemmings (pink skin!) but not all the actions are covered.

"Chicken is nice"
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Dominion Spy
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Posted: 8th Feb 2005 19:58
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Quote: "Van B - The music is actually a digitally recorded copy of the Amiga Pro Tracker music from the Acorn Achimedes version of Lemmings."

I grew up playing the Acorn version of Lemmings. Whenever I hear any other version, it sounds wrong
Could you post the other sound tracks by any chance?

By the way - great demo! Pity I only got 50 home on the first try. I'll have to get back into playing it.

If you read this signature, you will die.
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qwe
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Posted: 26th May 2005 09:32
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Quote: "Just a small request, would some of you deliberately drown some lemmings"


you heartless monster..

they just go "ap!" and dissapear. they should have their arms up and sink like in the original
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Hawkeye
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Posted: 26th May 2005 10:09
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Owtch that was a nasty bump... newbie slap please

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Baggers
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Posted: 27th May 2005 03:39
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Ugh...yeah that was silly..hope for his sake it was an honest mistake

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Avan Madisen
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Posted: 27th May 2005 05:05
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Damn, I was shocked to my own thread bumped.

Quote: "you heartless monster.. "

Well it'd be a bit silly making a lemmings game where they can't actually die, I have to test everything you know!

I don't suffer from insanity - I enjoy every minute of it!
Current Projects: Lemmings Remake
(Untitled) Puzzle Game for the Compo
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Super Nova
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Posted: 13th Sep 2005 20:21
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Cant wait for that level editor, already got lots of level ideas, nice job.

Justin Cannizzaro
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Hawkeye
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Quote: " Owtch that was a nasty bump... newbie slap please "



Arrr! Blog spotted off ter starboard!
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Baggers
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Posted: 14th Sep 2005 03:39
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Jesus...this thread is better at coming back to life than Jesus.
Silly Jesus...spends all that energy coming back to life, only to sod back off to heaven again.

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Kangaroo2 BETA2
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Posted: 14th Sep 2005 16:17
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Wow I love lemmings, not sure how I missed this post for so long, although I remember playing a much older demo, glad you're still making it

I played it and it works really smoothly, I love the subtle improvements you've made to the animations it all feels perfect.

One thing though, upon exiting I got a 'sound volume ilegal' or similar error, although I can't replicate it.

Anyway nice job, get some proper levels in there, and maybe a level edittor and it'd be amazing

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Avan Madisen
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Posted: 15th Sep 2005 01:20 Edited at: 15th Sep 2005 01:22
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The sound error is when the game fades the music out to 0 volume to quit the game, on some rare occasions it tries to set a negative number. The version on Geocities (I'm amazed that site hasn't been deleted by the host) is very old, and that bug has been corrected.

On the subject of 'still making it' you may not have noticed that the last post before Super Nova bumped the thread was waaaaay back in may! Truth is I haven't done much on Lemmings in the last year, and I recently discovered that dispite me pointing out this is a tribute game it is infact slightly illegal, since I didn't get permission from the copyright owner before starting the project. There's also the small fact that I'm using a fair amount of data from the original game, the sprites are modified from the original, I'm not sure exactly how the sound effects were 'nicked' since I downloaded them from a fan-site and the music is a recording of the original Amiga Pro Tracker music.

Plus this is made more difficult by the fact that the current owner of the lemmings copyright is infact not well known. Someone knows, but I haven't met them, all the info points to Sony, since they 'aquired' Psygnosis somewhere during when the WipeOut games were being deveoped on the PS. I've been meaning to look into it and I think I'll do that now.

Quote: "Silly Jesus...spends all that energy coming back to life, only to sod back off to heaven again."

Are you sure that's where he's going again and again?

Don't look at me like that!
You're just jealous because the voices are talking to me!
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Baggers
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Posted: 15th Sep 2005 12:41
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Quote: "Are you sure that's where he's going again and again?"

Are you suggesting he may still be hiding out in some pub in Jerusalem?

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Kangaroo2 BETA2
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Posted: 15th Sep 2005 13:18
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hmm thats a shame, as I love lemmings. Maybe you could just recolour the sprites and make new sounds, making it a clone... I did something similar a while ago with little people, I reied to add different skills, but it got too complicated, a little like Lemmings 2 did....

As for the copyright of them, well its still alive as an IP nowadays, in fact just last week I paid orange to download it on my mobile phone Also Lemmings Revolution was released not too long ago

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Avan Madisen
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Posted: 16th Sep 2005 00:24 Edited at: 16th Sep 2005 00:25
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Well all the info I've found points towards 3 different companies possibly owning Lemmings. Top of the list is Sony, since they 'aquired' Psygnosis and did a huge amount with WipeOut, however the last commercial Lemmings game was Lemmings Revolution, published by Take 2 Software, who are the second possibility. The last possiblity is (surprisingly) Rock Star Games, apparently when Psygnosis was aquired by Sony quite a few of the personnel joined Rock Star and were part of the team responsible for GTA3 and onwards, so there is a slight possiblity the Lemmings copyright went with them.

Sony is however the most likely since I've heard a Lemmings game is being released on PSP sometime soon, I'll try to contact Sony about this but I'm not getting my hopes up that they'll even reply let alone give me permission.

One possiblity to get around the copyright law is to use different sprites, sounds and music to make own Lemmings style game (or rip-off gam to be more accurate) and then make my own mod to turn the game into Lemmings.

Don't look at me like that!
You're just jealous because the voices are talking to me!
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Kangaroo2 BETA2
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Posted: 16th Sep 2005 16:58
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"The last possiblity is (surprisingly) Rock Star Games, apparently when Psygnosis was aquired by Sony quite a few of the personnel joined Rock Star and were part of the team responsible for GTA3 and onwards, so there is a slight possiblity the Lemmings copyright went with them."

Even further back from that, the very first GTA game was designed by a company called 'DMA design' - who also designed Lemmings for the PC & Amiga in the first place. Don't forget that Sony do not own Rockstar, rockstar are independant. Sony often just pays for exclsuives / earlier releases. As for Psygnosis, the name was sold, but not all its IPs went with it. I'm sure Sony would not have allowed mobile phone versions of their IPs to be released if they planned PSP versions, but its likely that most major PSP games aren't Sony IPs just ones they publish, and pay for the exclusivity - which is intirely different in the long run.

"One possiblity to get around the copyright law is to use different sprites, sounds and music to make own Lemmings style game (or rip-off gam to be more accurate) and then make my own mod to turn the game into Lemmings."

YEs, thats what I would do No problems there

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Avan Madisen
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Posted: 17th Sep 2005 00:46
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I didn't suggest Sony owned Rockstar, I can see how you thought I did, but since quite a few Rockstar games (GTA3,VC, SA & Manhunt) have been done on XBox, if Sony owned RockStar those version would never have happened.

Yeah, the mod idea seems like a way to go.

Don't look at me like that!
You're just jealous because the voices are talking to me!
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Avan Madisen
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Posted: 5th Oct 2005 00:16
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I think it best that I mention this, it's very unlikely I'll be continuing work on Lemmings. There are two reasons:

1) Legal issues, I would like to be able to sell games I make, and this game, although it would be popular, I cannot see that I'd ever be able to sell it.

2) I haven't played around with DBPro in quite a few weeks, I've started a course at a local college to learn C++ and I'm slowly playing around with it. My interest in DBPro is slowly dwindling and I can't see myslf using it for game development much, if at all, now.

Thanks for the interest and feedback from everyone. Sorry to those who were looking forward to this, I also hate it when things get cancelled, but I hope you can respect my reasons.

PS: For those who are interested, my first C++ game will probably be a text-based RPG. Unlike some people, I'm starting simple!

Don't look at me like that!
You're just jealous because the voices are talking to me!
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