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FPSC Classic Product Chat / Machinima and FPSC

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Coldnews
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Posted: 10th Dec 2004 21:18
I've been thinking, I'm currently attempting to start off in the world of Machinima (if you want more info just go to machinima.com or machinima.org or just google it!) which is the art of making movies with computergames. Now the idea of creating your OWN computergame to do this with is pretty unreal (pardon the pun), especially with the ease of creating levels etc... But theres one thing that I am a little disapointed about with FPSC: the fact that it looks like you cannot make you own cutscenes with it. Now, forgive me if I wrong, but this tool looks like it would be a major player in the Machinima community and the ease of use for us would make creating movies even easier than before, but if there is no cut-scene system or controlled camera, then it would make it harder to do this.
Ok, I know 99% of people on here are not interested in making machinima, but I think that 90% of you would like to have some sort of storyline flow to the game and the (in my opinion) easy insertion of a scripted camera and non-player-controlled level would add a bit of professionalism to a game. Having some cutscenes to help the game along etc...
I've emailed lee to suggest this to him but I was wondering if anyone else has any opinions on it?

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www.ColdNews.co.uk - the worlds first solo band.
Van B
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Posted: 10th Dec 2004 23:00
Perhaps that's something to consider after the EA version, I mean - as far as I know we'll be able to use FPSC levels in DBPro, in some guise at least - perhaps making a cut-scene editor to go along with a loaded FPSC level would be neat. The media for your FPSC game will all be available, it might take a bit of work to get it working how it should, but it's perhaps a better idea to use FPSC as a modelling environment supported by a movie director thing.

Also, things like talking heads would be pretty tricky in FPSC, but DBPro could handle that no problem - you would need extra tools for editing dialogue sequences, but a sister app to go with FPSC for Machinima and cut scenes would be great.


Van-B


It's c**p being the only coder in the village.
Cloud of Crows Studios
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Posted: 11th Dec 2004 02:47
My opinion - it is a critical component of an FPS game to have some form of cutscene / level intro to help establish mood and control story flow. Even if that means nothing more than a splash screen with text. (though that is awfully primitive - as seen in 3DGM)

I would PREFER some kind of in-game cutscenes (the much referred to "Half-Life style"), but I *NEED* some form of communicating information to the player whether it be mission objectives, helpful hints, or story dialog.

I am hoping that the scripting language will allow us to display text messages to the player as well. For example - walk up to a not tacked on the wall and the following line appears at the bottom (top?) of the screen:
"Went down to the armory to grab us some ammo. Meet me at the stairwell. Jenn."

As far as I'm concerned the more interaction we can have with the player the better.

Many users want to focus on the art and story and not have to deal with programming. (I am one of those people)
IanM
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Posted: 11th Dec 2004 08:58
That sounds like a trigger zone and a custom entity to me. That should certainly be possible.

Cutscenes will probably be very difficult (if not impossible) with the FPSC in the early versions - maybe Lee can add this kind of functionality in later.

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zircher
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Posted: 11th Dec 2004 09:23
I hope so since I agree with ColdNews 100% (Does that put me in the 1% category?) I'm hoping that I can clear the HUD and control the player's location and rotation via script in order to fake camera control.
--
TAZ

"Do you think it is wise to provoke him?" "It's what I do." -- Stargate SG-1
Coldnews
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Posted: 11th Dec 2004 16:34
Quote: "I hope so since I agree with ColdNews 100% (Does that put me in the 1% category?) I'm hoping that I can clear the HUD and control the player's location and rotation via script in order to fake camera control.
"

hmmm. So another Machinima creator!
I was thinking of that trick. But it would be a lot of effor to do that. I'm positive that it wont be in the EA release, but I emailed Lee to ask whether we could add it in an update.
I think PogoPogo is right about needing some solid evolving story. I dont want to get too deeply into the programming because I'm not really a programmer. But I would like to get a decent story flow going and be able to script a cutscene, LOADS of FPS games have this. I understand about mouth moving and lip synching with it will be difficult, but still a basic form will be able to be made with a script. Maybe a mod could be created for FPSC to help with cutscene building, I wouldn't want to have to buy DBpro as well just to make some cutscenes, and I dont think anyone else would either. I would happily pay an extra £10 for a cutscene update though.

-------------------------------------
www.ColdNews.co.uk - the worlds first solo band.
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 11th Dec 2004 16:36
If FPSC has a modifiable ability, then it should be easy enough to develop cut-scenes / machinima.

Really alot of it falls under how TGC decide to have everything work.
Both Q3 & HL, used the camera as an entity you can script the use of in thier BSP formats; so say you needed it to show something at a given time, you'd just need to trip a trigger event.
There was also a way to pause / slow current gameplay, which provides a nice slo-motion / bullet-time effect.

If FPSCs Entities will include stuff like that and how if any Entity Scripting will be done, is really not something they've been to forward with so far.


Coldnews
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Posted: 12th Dec 2004 07:28 Edited at: 12th Dec 2004 07:42
hmmm... Interesting.
I'm sure that cutscenes/machinima will be "do-able", but I'm not too sure that it will be easy with it. I hope that it is. We'll just have to see. I may pester Lee one more time

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www.ColdNews.co.uk - the worlds first solo band.
uman
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Posted: 13th Dec 2004 06:12
Quite obviously the makers of FPSC are well aware that any engine that wishes to position itself as more than is prommised by the EA version - for those who would like to aspire to the production of more sophisticated and advanced games than would be otherwise possible, then an option for some kind of cut - scene function (in-game or video) which allows a greater depth of compelling storytelling would be a necessity.

There is no other way to give a game the same depth without it.

Whether or not TGC envisage FPSC developing to offer more advanced functions of that nature and when is another matter. If they dont it would be a great shame as the seem to have an excellent platform from which to advance FPS to become a tool appealing to a wider range of users offering the potential for some serious game production.

However one would not normally expect to see such advanced features maybe in a low cost engine which is the market FPS is currently aimed at. If FPSC sells well I guess they might bring out "FPS Pro" offering more advanced features at a greater cost (or not and get even nore users).

Who knows
Coldnews
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Posted: 13th Dec 2004 08:45 Edited at: 13th Dec 2004 08:51
Lee probably knows! Is there a chance of a comment from Lee? I didnt get an email from him. maybe he's trying to tell me something. I personally think that everything else is in place, this would be the icing on the cake for FPS Creator.
I'm starting to sound desperate now! *deep breath*.
I just read Rich's Dev Diary and he says that
Quote: "FPS Creator is nearing final EA build and I have been busy creating a client/server application to handle the downloading of it, as well as working on the web site."
. Its coming soooon! (ish)

-------------------------------------
www.ColdNews.co.uk - the worlds first solo band.
zircher
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Posted: 13th Dec 2004 10:07
Uman, given the boasting that I heard about everything being controlled by script. I really do expect the FPSC to be used in many different ways. I even suspect some of the methods will come as a pleasent surprise even for the creators.
--
TAZ

"Do you think it is wise to provoke him?" "It's what I do." -- Stargate SG-1
Jordan Siddall
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Posted: 4th Jan 2005 03:50
One of the reasons I'm getting FPSC is to make machinima!

Big fan of Red Vs Blue BTW...
David T
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Posted: 4th Jan 2005 04:47
It's not possible at the moment.

Get 15 new commands, all the date / time commands left out of DBPro for free!
DOWNLOAD PLUGINS HERE: http://www.davidtattersall.me.uk/ and select "DarkBasic"
Anime civil
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Posted: 4th Jan 2005 06:37
This can be achieved easily. You import your level and models into some sort of 3d move makes (I use STUDIO 4D) and you animate is there, save it as a movie file, and input the command code for playing movies when you trigger an action event. Try that, it might help.

Animecivil
Coldnews
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Posted: 4th Jan 2005 06:47
yeah, but not exactly using the game engine and wouldnt work for machinima. In fact it defeats the whole point of machinima... :s
And also DavidT could you at least give us a little explaination to why it would not be possible? a little explaining your point would usually help...

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David T
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Posted: 4th Jan 2005 07:33
It simply is not feasible. There is no sort of pre-done cinematic feature. All you can do is play the game, from fps p.o.v.

Get 15 new commands, all the date / time commands left out of DBPro for free!
DOWNLOAD PLUGINS HERE: http://www.davidtattersall.me.uk/ and select "DarkBasic"
Cloud of Crows Studios
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Posted: 4th Jan 2005 08:44
Quote: "It simply is not feasible. There is no sort of pre-done cinematic feature. All you can do is play the game, from fps p.o.v."


I think what Coldnews and others are talking about is taking control away from the player temporarily and moving the camera around. TGC has said before that there will be limited control of the camera BUT not to the point where you could do third person games.

With scripting maybe it would be possible to do something like this:

1) suspend player input (mouse & keyboard stop working)
2) teleport player into a room - say a lab with 2 "technician" characters
3) fire a script that says move technician 1 from where he is standing next to technician 2 in front of a computer console
4) print (or play a wave file or something) that says "look at this the power levels have been spiking all morning... what are they doing down there in the lab?"
5) quick fade to black
6) teleport the player to a power room
7) fire off a script showing a power plant overloading and exploding
8) alien invasion begins, etc. etc. etc.
9) teleport the player to the start area and return control to him

very "half-lifish" cinematics.

Does the current scripting system not support something like this?

Thx!
Anime civil
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Posted: 4th Jan 2005 11:22
And I am talkign about TAKING AWAY THE CONTROL FROM THE WHOLE GAME, hehe. When the movie is played (MPEG MOVIE), the game is paused, and the movie has nothing to do with the game. You make th emovie with another program, liek cinema 4D for example , and hten export it as a .mpeg, and make FPSC play the movie when you trigger an action event.

Animecivil
David T
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Posted: 5th Jan 2005 06:50
Quote: "I think what Coldnews and others are talking about is taking control away from the player temporarily and moving the camera around. "


Nope. Not possible. 3d is only rendered in first person view.

Get 15 new commands, all the date / time commands left out of DBPro for free!
DOWNLOAD PLUGINS HERE: http://www.davidtattersall.me.uk/ and select "DarkBasic"
zircher
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Posted: 5th Jan 2005 12:20
I think you're all too quick to say no. If you can control the player's position and rotation via script, you effectively control the 'camera'. You can then minimize or change the HUD and remove any weapons to unclutter the screen.
--
TAZ

"Do you think it is wise to provoke him?" "It's what I do." -- Stargate SG-1
David T
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Posted: 5th Jan 2005 14:57
Quote: "If you can control the player's position and rotation via script"


You cannot to that extent. I've seen the script - I'll check out tonight but I'm sure you cannot have that level control.

Get 15 new commands, all the date / time commands left out of DBPro for free!
DOWNLOAD PLUGINS HERE: http://www.davidtattersall.me.uk/ and select "DarkBasic"
Nosce
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Posted: 5th Jan 2005 19:56
Quote: "You cannot to that extent. I've seen the script - I'll check out tonight but I'm sure you cannot have that level control."


You seem very eager to piss on our parade.

Disabling hud, removing weapons and player location really should'nt be that difficult should it? If there is talk from the developers themselves about things as complicated as real-time physics engines and multiplayer, then surely making things transparent and making the player float around a bit should have been sorted out?

I'm not slating TGS, the product looks great, but surely if your'e on to multiplayer and such you've figured out the (in my opinion) basics first?

temet nosce
David T
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Posted: 5th Jan 2005 21:14
Quote: "You seem very eager to piss on our parade."


I'm not. I'm simply saying that I think it is not possible. I wouldn't want you to have false expectations about what you will be able to achieve.

I will look tonight at the commands, but I'm 99% sure you won't be able to.

Get 15 new commands, all the date / time commands left out of DBPro for free!
DOWNLOAD PLUGINS HERE: http://www.davidtattersall.me.uk/ and select "DarkBasic"
Coldnews
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Posted: 6th Jan 2005 07:40
Dammit. Even something as basic as Quake had a free camera where it showed you snippets of the level. Somthing as simple (as everyone has said) as being able to take control away from the player (which I presume happens when you die in the game, unless theres a moveable corpse mode - very unnerving...!) and being able to change where the player is looking etc...
Nosce is right, Something as simple as this should be easily included in the game. If you can create a player start point in the game (which we know is possible) and have a control block on the player (also possible when dead and I also presume the gun is taken from view) and remove HUD (which is probably possible seeing as we are able to change the HUD in the game). It should be possible. All that needs to be done is to be able to script the player "start position" while scripting controls the characters. A free-moving camera is not too much to ask for really. Sorry if I'm sorta repeating what everyone is saying but I just wanted to summarise things on screen.
Does Lee have anything to say about this?

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www.ColdNews.co.uk - the worlds first solo band.
David T
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Posted: 6th Jan 2005 15:52
A free-moving camera is not too much to ask for really


We haven't seen the source, it may be

Looking at the FPI commands, there are commands to move the camera - but as the player. So you can move the player left, right, forwards or backwards by x units (but I think the result is instantaneous).

Rich has said there isn't a cutscene editor at present as it's an incredibly hard thing to do. That's most likely what you'll need to make machinima with fpsc.

Remember, it's primarily aimed at the game side of things, so free roaming cameras will be low down in priority

Get 15 new commands, all the date / time commands left out of DBPro for free!
DOWNLOAD PLUGINS HERE: http://www.davidtattersall.me.uk/ and select "DarkBasic"

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