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FPSC Classic Product Chat / [LOCKED] The first week of January is almost over- FPSC release date awaits!

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Game Freak10K
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Posted: 8th Jan 2005 21:34
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Id slap the quote down in here, but I cant find it. I thinks its the top one of this thread. Were supposed to be getting a release date in the first week of January and its almost over.

Im having a hard time keeping this money of mine in a safe place (little pun) cause Im ready to pour it into the hands of TGC, so I can get some FPSC. Its kinda like christmas morning....postponed until another day, and then another and another and.....

So TGC whassup? Any news for us?

Comics and Games-Bread and Butter.
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uman
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Posted: 8th Jan 2005 21:57
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Check out the development diaries - if you were hoping to have an announcement for a release date soon (theres that word again) it looks a way off yet.

Best think it will be ready when its ready. I know its rather frusrating but perhaps we can take up golf for a while or something.

You wont see an announcement this week thats for sure. A month of golf then a holiday might help.

Just the way it is in the world of game engines they never seem to get done and when they do well theres always the update announcements to wait for - one day well make some games - hopefully.
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Noah
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Posted: 8th Jan 2005 22:07
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How do you find the developer diaries?
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uman
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Posted: 8th Jan 2005 23:19
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http://developer.thegamecreators.com/

Theres a bug problem and the betas still not tested apparently
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David T
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Posted: 9th Jan 2005 01:38
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Quote: "Theres a bug problem and the betas still not tested apparently "


I can't see a mention of a problem in the diary?

And I'm pretty sure betas have been tested, too.

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Noah
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Posted: 9th Jan 2005 01:42
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Arent you a beta tester, David?
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David T
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Posted: 9th Jan 2005 01:44
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That's my point.

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Noah
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Posted: 9th Jan 2005 02:25
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Oh yeah i didn't think of that !
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tomazmb
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Posted: 9th Jan 2005 03:25
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Hello,

According to diary I think Lee Bamber drink too much beer...that's the main reason for bugs also, I think.

Have a nice day,

Tomaz

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Rob K
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Posted: 9th Jan 2005 03:43
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Quote: "According to diary I think Lee Bamber drink too much beer...that's the main reason for bugs also, I think. "


Meeting Lee at the convention provided some err.. interesting insight. Extract as I remember it from his presentation on FPSC:

Quote: "
Me: Is all the media loaded when you start the game?
Lee: Yes, I used to have it so that the weapons were only loaded when you picked them up.

[Lee mimes walking over a weapon, waiting for 3 or 4 seconds for the model to load and then using it]

Lee: I thought that were OK...

[Stunned Silence]

Lee: But Rick said No...

[Collective sigh of relief]
"



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Cloud of Crows Studios
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Posted: 9th Jan 2005 04:00
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Quote: "Theres a bug problem and the betas still not tested apparently "


There was a bug with shaders so they are out at the moment, but I'm sure they will get sorted back in. (Even David T admits that bump shading isn't working properly with his particular setup & graphics card.

Lee seems to find and cure bugs on a daily basis with new holes openening as old ones are closed. I'm sure it's par for the course in programing.

The beta he was uploading in his last diary hadn't been tested yet, but he makes nightly builds so it just means that one wasn't tested *yet*, but tonight will probably be a new one anyways.
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Noah
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Posted: 9th Jan 2005 07:01
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Rob--I assume what you showed means that the weapons will not take time to load the model before you pick it up?
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David T
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Posted: 9th Jan 2005 18:34
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Quote: "(Even David T admits that bump shading isn't working properly with his particular setup & graphics card."


My graphics isn't DX9 compatible

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Rob K
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Posted: 9th Jan 2005 19:53
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Quote: " Rob--I assume what you showed means that the weapons will not take time to load the model before you pick it up?"


Correct. Lee said that all media is now loaded when you start the game.


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Ali M Oldboy
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Posted: 9th Jan 2005 20:39
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Lee rules!

Don't dis lee!

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Noah
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Posted: 9th Jan 2005 22:27
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He does seem to drink a lot, apparently though. Look:

Quote: "No time left to play any games, have a beer, watch a movie, just clammer over to a horizontal surface and sleep. AND I am not done yet. The BETA files are still being copied over, and I have yet to test it. I think I will grab a beer - it is thirsty work! Will post this now though so I have one less sleep obstructing task to do when the upload starts."


(That's from the diaries)
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MaddA ChieF
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Posted: 10th Jan 2005 01:55 Edited at: 11th Jan 2005 23:02
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it doesn't matter

MaddA ChieF WILL HAUNT & hunt YOU!
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Noldor
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Posted: 10th Jan 2005 02:30
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The guy does not have a problem with drinking.
i read that same thing about him grabbing a beer. Well who
does not do that.. I LOVE BEER.. He wrote it once big wop
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Chimera
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Posted: 10th Jan 2005 03:16
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Does he have a beer belly then?

Don't eat yellow snow!
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 10th Jan 2005 03:20
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No...

Visit http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~nickk/
I have no signature.
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Game Freak10K
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Posted: 10th Jan 2005 05:37
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Jeeze I might as well go out and buy DBPro and do it myself.... yeah right! Guess ill go back to sleep now.
Y'all wake me up when FPSC is ready ok?
CHEERS AND BEERS TO LEE!

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Philip
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Posted: 10th Jan 2005 21:06
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Quote: "Meeting Lee at the convention provided some err.. interesting insight. Extract as I remember it from his presentation on FPSC:


Quote: "
Me: Is all the media loaded when you start the game?
Lee: Yes, I used to have it so that the weapons were only loaded when you picked them up.

[Lee mimes walking over a weapon, waiting for 3 or 4 seconds for the model to load and then using it]

Lee: I thought that were OK...

[Stunned Silence]

Lee: But Rick said No...

[Collective sigh of relief]
""


The way Lee spoke about Rick Vanner during the Con, I thought maybe Rick was his mother. There was much ado with statements like: "I wanted to do [x] but Rick said no and made me do [y]".

Mind you, reading between the lines, it sounds to me that Rick is damn good in the marketing / user department. My question about whether you could draw squares around things you want to select and Lee saying that Rick had made him put that in was a case in point.

Cheers

Philip

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Rob K
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Posted: 10th Jan 2005 21:55
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My thoughts as well. Having said that, Lee certainly understood the big picture very well, as in who FPSC was for and what level of ability those users had. The problem was with the "little things" (implementation details).


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sollthar
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Posted: 11th Jan 2005 04:46
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Sorry if I sound rude, but honestly I think it's quite lame to announce something and then not only not keep it, but also not react in any way when the stated date is over.

At least a "it'll be later, because *insertreasonhere*, apologies" would have showed some respect imho.
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Coldnews
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Posted: 11th Jan 2005 06:00
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I agree. This is pretty bad. Even if they added a month onto the bloody release date, they should have announced it within the first week of January. Very uncool indeed. But thats the way life goes.

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Chenak
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Posted: 11th Jan 2005 07:08
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Quote: "I agree. This is pretty bad. Even if they added a month onto the bloody release date, they should have announced it within the first week of January. Very uncool indeed. But thats the way life goes."


Hence why they were reluctant to give a release date in the first place till a lotta people whined and demanded it, give them a break
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David T
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Posted: 11th Jan 2005 07:11
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Quote: "Sorry if I sound rude, but honestly I think it's quite lame to announce something and then not only not keep it, but also not react in any way when the stated date is over.

At least a "it'll be later, because *insertreasonhere*, apologies" would have showed some respect imho. "


Perhaps they're too busy trying to fix bugs than respond to comments made by a bunch of people to whom they are under no obligation to inform.

It's impossible to give a release date because it's not finished yet, when it is finished then they can give a date. Until then there's no point in giving anything.

I think you're all getting to carried away, talking about their lack of respect for us

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SkyCubes
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Posted: 11th Jan 2005 07:47
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Quote: "a bunch of people to whom they are under no obligation to inform"


LOL@David T

Ya, that's it...keep alienating the consumer. I'm curious, is there a name for that sort of marketing strategy? LOL!

fdecker <------slaps self in face.

Sorry, I keep forgetting that the developers are doing us a favor for free. Who am I to expect people to say what they mean and mean what they say.

fdecker <------ungrateful whiner.

LOL!

Whatever.
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Coldnews
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Posted: 11th Jan 2005 07:49
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Quote: "Perhaps they're too busy trying to fix bugs than respond to comments made by a bunch of people to whom they are under no obligation to inform.

It's impossible to give a release date because it's not finished yet, when it is finished then they can give a date. Until then there's no point in giving anything.

I think you're all getting to carried away, talking about their lack of respect for us "

They're not under obligation to inform any of us, but seeing that we will be buying their product, they should at least do us a favour and speak to us. It takes 2 minutes to come onto the forum and say "Sorry we're late. But its going REALLY well! and better than expected. Sorry about the release date, we'll update you soon. must dash and finish it. Thanks for your patience!!" and before you ask, YES it would make a lot of people happier.
Quote: "Hence why they were reluctant to give a release date in the first place till a lotta people whined and demanded it, give them a break "

If you're gonna give in to peer pressure you may as well do it properly and announce a release date. Even if you dont stick to it. In fact, sod it, release a buggy app 2 weeks early and let people use it, then release the bug fix later. Loads of companies do it. Why do TCG have to break the mould?
I've lost the effort on this forum. I'm just gonna perform a vow of silence until FPSC comes out.

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Coldnews
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Posted: 11th Jan 2005 07:59
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Quote: "a bunch of people to whom they are under no obligation to inform"

and, the more I think about this comment, the ruder it sounds. If this "bunch of people" weren't here then they wouldnt have anyone to help move their product along. We are the people that are going to be using the EA version and helping them iron out/give valuable consumer feedback on what things need to be improved on/changed. I'm a musician and if I stood up on stage and referred to the paying audience as "a bunch of people" like it didnt matter if they existed or not, theyd walk out. probably taking their money back in the process. Ok, they are not at our whim. They shouldnt do everything we say. But hey, we're investors. We need TGC as much as they need us. Respect needed on both sides.

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SoulMan
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Posted: 11th Jan 2005 08:18
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Have any of you considered that they could have come down with a cold, had to go to the doctor, go to a funeral etc...
They are human too. Not machines. They aren't here to serve all your whimsical needs. You know the people that are complaining the most are the ones that have recently joined, aka joined 2004. Those from 2003 and 2002 seem to have a better attitude about this kind of stuff. Not to finger point, that's an observation that I just made recently. I think most of us need to just chill. Is FPSC so important in your life that you can't live without it?
Yeeesshh.
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LeeBamber
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Posted: 11th Jan 2005 08:43
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"Sorry we're late. But its going REALLY well! and better than expected. Sorry about the release date, we'll update you soon. must dash and finish it. Thanks for your patience!!"

I am taking five minutes to browse the forum and thought I would be cheeky (read previous posts) Was meant to clock off at 6PM today, just finished sorting out the beta files, now being more like MIDNIGHT. A usual day for me I think. Sometimes I do not stick to my deadlines in a good way!

We have a deadline in mind, but I do not think anyone in the team is brave enough to mention it for fear of being roasted, hung, drawn, quartered, roasted again and buried in the garden if we slide. I can say I fixed so many bugs today it hurts, and having a great time testing it too

Now I go back into my dungeon and finish what I starteth. Bye!

"We are the knights who say...eki eki eki fatang loopzoing, zanziga....ni"
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SkyCubes
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Posted: 11th Jan 2005 08:45
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ROTFLMAO!

And there it is...that arrogant, "I'm an old-timer" elitist mentality. As if he rest of us are some sort of peons.

Alrighty then. That's the last straw for me. This will be my final post. There's only so much demeaning, elitist propaganda a person can take.

Have a wonderful friggin day and may the Mods (gods) grant you peace.
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Chenak
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Posted: 11th Jan 2005 09:31 Edited at: 11th Jan 2005 09:32
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Quote: "
And there it is...that arrogant, "I'm an old-timer" elitist mentality. As if he rest of us are some sort of peons.

Alrighty then. That's the last straw for me. This will be my final post. There's only so much demeaning, elitist propaganda a person can take.

Have a wonderful friggin day and may the Mods (gods) grant you peace. "


great! one less whiner on the forums

Quote: "If you're gonna give in to peer pressure you may as well do it properly and announce a release date. Even if you dont stick to it. In fact, sod it, release a buggy app 2 weeks early and let people use it, then release the bug fix later. Loads of companies do it. Why do TCG have to break the mould?"


imo its better to release a more or less bug free product and wait a bit longer than releasing a hugely bugged product early, either way no one wins because there will be complaints no matter what they do lol
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Red Ocktober
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Posted: 11th Jan 2005 10:05 Edited at: 11th Jan 2005 10:08
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hey FD... hang in there... don't disappear...

if you know me, then you know that i'm being purely objective when i say that i have to disagree with your assessment, and didn't really find Lee's post to be condescending or elitist...

... maybe a lil bit of propaganda, but to be honest, that's to be expected.

at first, i didn't give this project much of a chance at being anything really usefull... even after seeing the vids, i had my doubts... but i am willing to give the dev teams a fair chance to show us something really cool if they have it...

but, regardless of my personal opinions, i really think that a lot of people here are going a bit overboard... constantly badgering the guys for information...

it seems as if they are being forthcoming and forthright with the facts as they become available...

badgering may be a lil too strong a word here... whatever... at the very least, this sort of thing can't be any good for the devs, as well as for FPSC...

software development is something that usually proceeds well aft of the plan lines... missed deadlines are common place... i'm sure you all know this...

c'mon people, lets give these guys a break... at least give em some time to get things to the point where they have a good handle on when this thing may possibly be ready for release...

... i'm sure they'll let us know.


--Mike
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SkyCubes
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Posted: 11th Jan 2005 10:24
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Just for the record, my last post was NOT directed at Lee. I was addressing the earlier post by one of the elitist "sometime before 2002'ers". In fact, I have a great respect for Lee. I read his diaries daily and I know that he is working his ass off to get this completed. He's the only one on the team that is giving regular updates via the diaries.

But, I'm not going to apologize for being bothered by the arrogance of some elitists and mods on this forum, or by the fact that we were all told one thing (again), and yet another thing happened. Whether you sell hot dogs on the street corner or you develop software, it's simply bad business practice.

I do appreciate the work the team is doing on this development, but at the same time I don't feel sorry for them either. I mean, the simply fact is that this is their job...chosen job.

Anyway, it's all a moot point npw since an "official" member of the team has finally posted and let us know that the release of the release date announcment is being delayed.
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SoulMan
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Posted: 11th Jan 2005 10:37
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fdecker,
The problem is you are out there with the rest of the fire and pitch fork crowd ready to roast anything and everything alive. Bad Business practice you say? What's bad business about not releasing a product that's not ready or even to begin mentioning that it's ready when it's not. You would get mad if they came out to say that the product would be ready in two weeks and then find it slip to three weeks, or that you got a product that was half done. First you want the product now no matter what state it is in, but when you get the product you get mad that it is in that state. Don't be a hypocrite. Plus also read entire posts. What I said about people from 2004 being too whiny about the whole deal, that is a FACT. That wasn't something I pulled from thin air.
SoulMan

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MaddA ChieF
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Posted: 11th Jan 2005 10:50
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Lay off of the developers! They'll release it when its ready. (i'm just thinkn to release FPSC for the whiners early, and let them see how many bugs they'll find!...they'll regretit!,lol, justakiddn') Wow. lots of commas and a very long sentance. wierd
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SkyCubes
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Posted: 11th Jan 2005 11:25
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Quote: "Don't be a hypocrite."


Quote: "a person who professes beliefs and opinions that he does not hold
www.cogsci.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/webwn"


You may want to work on that vocabulary, soulman.

Hmm, laugh or cry...tough choice.

Hey, you keep blowing smoke up the devolper's asses. More power to ya and the 'before 2002'ers'.

I'm just a 'newbie', what the hell do I know anyway.

Have a good one.
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uman
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Posted: 11th Jan 2005 12:17
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Despite any pressure for a release date from forum members....Bad business practice comes from releasing any date at all in the first place if it cannot realistically be achieved. I am not quite sure why this forum was even started so early on unless it was to gain potential users suggestions, though it is unlikely as we have seen that it will have any influence on how the product develops.....thats simply a business decision, probably quite rightly so. The front page FPSC web site I believe still says coming Fall 2004.....that is misleading to visitors. Misleading people is simply bad business practice. If a release date of any kind is indicated at least keeping people informed when a specified time scale cannot be met and either providing another date or alternatively honestly saying we have no idea or even it may be a be a very long time yet before the product will be finished is better business practice and is a courteous gesture at the very least.

Of course the development of FPSC is a business venture which does not rely on the members of this forum for success or failure as it is aimed at a much wider audience, so as someone said there is little obligation or none to this forums members. You have not purchased the product yet and some may never do so. As with most game engines in the market the majority of purchasers will never join this forum.

At least Lee has given his valuable time to write at this forum even though we still are given no indication as to any real progress towards a release date. The use of the relative soon word is no indicator.

As it has already been done a number of times, and going down the road of announcing release dates was chosen initially by TGC, another target date could still be given which at least would help stop the constant frustration which (as you have a pre-release forum as it were)......typically comes from not having one. Now it seems there is no official release date..........so please TGC amend the front page of the FPCS and take off the Fall 2004 statement......its a relatively small amount of work and does the company no good at all....coming soon will do.

For the rest of us....one things for certain FPSC will come into being (or not).......but as the developers are having some difficulty, obviously its not possible seemingly at this stage to say when.

Think I gotta chill now..........but no beer.

Chill everyone, think of all those great games you might be making this time next year and have a beer if you like.
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SoulMan
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Posted: 11th Jan 2005 12:56
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Fdecker,
You're a hypocrite because you believe that if they deliver something to you now that would be a good thing, but will turn on them the instance something goes wrong even though you were the one asking for it in the first place. Such as the date. Thus making it appear to be a good thing which you will not hold as being true if they slip on the date or if the product does not meet your needs right off the bat. Thus you would be a hypocrite.
SoulMan

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David T
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Posted: 11th Jan 2005 15:54
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Argh, okay, so it seems my comment about the fact they don't really owe us anything seems to have been badly phrased.

They said hopefully they'll be able to announce a release date the first week of Jan. However, due to a number of reasons, they can't (mainly bug fixing).

That then however doesn't mean that peple ca ncry "disresectful!" just because as of Monday evening, second week of January, nobody from TGC has said anything yet.

I mean, come on, realease dates slip all the time. Having one slip and not informing us the day they should have isn't a big deal and isn't isn't the end of the world

So can we get backto looking forward to it... rather than quibbling over the reasoning behind not having an accouncement on time

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uman
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Posted: 11th Jan 2005 18:40
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Yes lets not fight either between ourselves or TGC it wont change anything thats for sure, but make friends into enemies.

Whatever the opinions.....

If theres any agression around then lets keep that for the games - Yes.

If you wait long enough then well all be so up tight - personally I am going to take it out on the engine when it comes and give it a right hammering
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IanM
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Posted: 11th Jan 2005 20:38
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Lee, thankyou for your update.

Everyone else, is there really any reason to continue this thread? I'm going to leave things for now, but if this continues in the same confrontational vein I'll lock it.

*** Coming soon - Network Plug-in - Check my site for info ***
For free Plug-ins and source code http://www.matrix1.demon.co.uk
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Dave J
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Posted: 11th Jan 2005 20:44 Edited at: 11th Jan 2005 20:55
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I have noticed the donut effect created by providing information though, you let the public know one thing and they have to know more, they're not satisfied until they've been told the inner-most details about what's going on. Honestly, everyone's lucky to even hear that a release date is on its way, the developer diaries should be more than enough for most people and gives a good insight into what's going on.

David T's comment was completely fair, they don't owe you anything, if you truley wish to buy the product then not knowing the release date for a week or two longer isn't going to make a difference. Look at any other organisation in the world, you'd be very lucky to hear this much about a new product. I don't hear anyone bitching to Microsoft because they don't know what's happening with Longhorn, and I sure as hell don't see anyone going "Hey, Half-Life 2's release day slipped back a year, there's no way I'm going to buy that now". Shit happens, deal with it, but anymore complaining (especially towards other members) and this will be locked.

*Rant over*


"Computers are useless, they can only give you answers."
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Red Ocktober
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Posted: 11th Jan 2005 22:36 Edited at: 11th Jan 2005 22:46
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Quote: "Sh#t happens, deal with it, but anymore complaining (especially towards other members) and this will be locked."



are you serious... first off, that is one of the main purposes for a forum... to complain about problems, perceived or otherwise...

second... you are constantly telling these guys not to use profanity on the boards, and you yourself violate the rules of the ettiquette with your use of same...

hey... do ya think that maybe you were the case in point when FD mentioned something about elitist mods... do ya think that your post is adding the fuel for his fires...

funny, i can't seem to quote you directly, as the editor has been modded after your post above that contains the offending vulgarity was entered... definitely a double standard... or at the very least, a do as i say, not as i do policy.


my post above [on page 1] was not to stifle free speech and/or complaints... me thinks that that is the right of the members here...

... but, we have to use some common sense about how we complain, how often we complain, and the tone in which our complaints are made.

i can understand the disappointment in not hearing any news about the release date... but for god sake, the world isnt gonna come to an end if this thing is delayed a month or two...

... just everyone chill out a bit, mods included.

or dont, doesnt really matter to me...

this board will become what you make it... funny you should mention Half Life... the main character there lives in a place similar to what this place can become if both the members as well as the mods dont start acting with a lil more community spirit.

for you to suggest that the company doesn't have a responsibility to its membership is ludicrous... but, on the same time, the membership has a similar responsibility to the company, as well as, and even more so, to the community here...

so... mods, go ahead and play god, locking everything that you dont like... banning people at will... and members, go ahead and start flaming each other, just because they don't see the world exactly as you do... chastise and bellittle the mods and the dev team...

... for surely that will make em release FPSC much sooner.


--Mike
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Noldor
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Posted: 11th Jan 2005 22:50
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ohh GOD shut up with the whining.. We should close this thread before someone says something that he/she will regret..
They will release the software. Its not a lie does your whole
feature ride on this release date or what..
(directet mainly at fdecker) Yeeshh.
And by the way everyone stop roasting the development crew.
What if they get enough of you and close down production.
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uman
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Posted: 11th Jan 2005 22:54
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Nice one Red. Everyones chilling trying to find something constructive to post about FPSC. Difficult when we are dealing with something that we know little about that does not exist I know - Anyone got an interesting line of thought regarding FPSC for a change?

I'll try and think of something constructive thats not been asked.

chilling
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Red Ocktober
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Posted: 11th Jan 2005 22:58 Edited at: 11th Jan 2005 23:08
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here's a thought... work on your modeling abit... or on your texturing or animating skills...

why not do some work on some of the content that you plan to include in your first FPSC creation...

there's lots to do to keep busy... hone your skills a bit on those fronts...

or

take a short mini vacation in the islands... sip on some rum on a sunny beach, get in the water, catch some rays...

or, go on a ski weekend... sip some hot toddies with a young hottie in front of the glow of the fireplace at the lodge...

do something... anything...

but don't wake up every morning and rush to the forum with such high expectations, only to be dissapointed...

putting together a large scale project like FPSC is quite a formidable task... everything is not going to go as planned... there will be delays, undoubtedly... expect that to happen..

be patient... support each other... support the people who are working to get it out to you...


and be happy...

--Mike
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MaddA ChieF
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Posted: 11th Jan 2005 23:15
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Moderadtors,

I counted and there are around 10 complaints. Personally, I think it would be nice to get rid of every post below Lee's post. This complaining thing has been crazy... I say there is no use of those posts.

thank you guys

MaddA ChieF WILL HAUNT & hunt YOU!
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