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Geek Culture / Is this graphcis card any good?

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Dom
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2005 21:49
Is the Abit Radeon 9600XT 256mb a good card for someone on a budget?


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Phaelax
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Posted: 24th Jan 2005 02:40
if you're only going to get a 9600, get the 128mb and save yourself money. The only games that'll need the 256mb probably won't run on that card anyway.

"eureka" - Archimedes
Dom
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Posted: 24th Jan 2005 03:28
Quote: "if you're only going to get a 9600"
Can you recommend another good one then?


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ionstream
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Posted: 24th Jan 2005 05:13
Radeon X800, GeForce 6800....

Dom
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Posted: 24th Jan 2005 05:19
I have a budget of £100


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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 24th Jan 2005 07:16
For £100, the budget cards in your range will be

Radeon 9600XT, 9800SE, 9700Pro
GeForce Ti4800, FX5200 Ultra, FX5700, FX5900XT

(assuming your looking for AGP not PCX)

Generally speaking the FX5700/FX5900XT are good cards that can perform equally to the 9600XT. As such really the choice comes down to Compatibility and Drivers, as well as personal preference.

They are quire good mid-range cards and will provide you with high-end graphics at 800x600 on just about every game currently out.
(provided it's with a 2GHz Equivilent processor & 512MB Ram)

So they're not bad choices for budget systems.
Personally I'd edge towards GeForce as I've never liked the support and compatibility that the Radeons I've purchased have given me, plus I use alot of OpenGL applications/games (like Q3-Based) which favour the GeForce.

But that's more personal preference.

CattleRustler
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Posted: 24th Jan 2005 07:54
im loving my Nvidia EN6800 PCI-Express (pci-E, not pci-x )

just ran doom3 with all video settings at highest and res at 1024x768 - only thing I can say is... UNBELIEVABLE!



sorry

Chenak
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Posted: 24th Jan 2005 09:16
whatever you do dont buy cheap 256mb cards, they suck , tend to be slower than most 128mb cards The good 256mb cards are usually around £250+ last time i checked.. i got a 128mb radeon 9800se and it works great, even though half of the pipeline is locked or something
Preston C
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Posted: 24th Jan 2005 09:30 Edited at: 24th Jan 2005 11:21
Well for that budget, if you have PCI-Express, and you're looking to use new technology (such as Shader Model 3), why not the NVIDIA GeForce 6200? £68 for the Chaintech model if I converted it correctly. Or how about £61 for the Sapphire ATI Radeon x300 card? Both are new technology, have 128MB in em, and I'm sure both would give you some pretty good bang for your buck (euro).

[Edit] Or, even better, how about the Sapphire ATI Radeon x600 Pro for £84?

Just a suggestion. Though, if you're stuck with AGP, then go with what Raven said.

[Edit 2] Personally, I'd get the 6200 over the x300, because in the benchmark tests I've seen, it blows it out of the water in every way. £7 isn't that much more when you consider that. But I'm pretty sure the x600 will beat em both, so if you can get that, then get it.

But then again, if you're stuck with AGP, they're all PCI-Express, so meh, tough for you .

[Edit 3] Ooh: Gigabyte NVIDIA GeForce 6600 at £90. Even better. I like threads like these, I love looking for computer parts

Intel Celeron 1.3 Ghrz | 512 MB Ram | NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 128MB
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CattleRustler
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Posted: 24th Jan 2005 12:35
arent those ati x cards pci-x on the agp bus? they arent the same as pci-express (pci-e). I hate these vido card companies and their schemes to confuse everybody and all their mucked up models with older chipsets but higher memory - there's too many damn video cards out there imho. A prime example from a bit back was gf4 MX vs TI models.

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 24th Jan 2005 12:49
Quote: "arent those ati x cards pci-x on the agp bus? they arent the same as pci-express (pci-e). I hate these vido card companies and their schemes to confuse everybody and all their mucked up models with older chipsets but higher memory - there's too many damn video cards out there imho. A prime example from a bit back was gf4 MX vs TI models."


PCI-Express.
Intel call it PCI-E
NVIDIA call it PCX
Almost everyone else has dubbed it PCI-X

You can call it whatever you choose, it's the same technology.
God knows why NVIDIA called it PCX, but I think it has something to do with thier own version.

Also can't tell you why PCI-X appears to be the currently accepted term for it. Perhaps because 'Xs' are cool?

Either way, same blasted thing.

Zone Chicken
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Posted: 24th Jan 2005 13:38 Edited at: 24th Jan 2005 15:11
Ati x cards are pci express as i have one, the main difference in the pcie, pcix, and pci express are in the bandwidth to the motherboard from the card.

From what i have read mind you this might not be correct info because i did read it online. All the cards can support different bandwiths ranging from 4x, 6x, 8x, 10x, 12x, and 16x. The pcie and pcix usually support the lower bandwidths between 4x and 8x, and pci express supports the higher ones 10x to 16x. Again though this is just something i read online and it was awhile back before i decided to buy my new comp also at the time nvidia didn't have a pcix or express on the market, so the cards may have changed by now.

But i do know that the ati x600 xt 128 is 16x as im using one currently.

While i couldnt find the article that i read before i did find this.


Introduction
The venerable PCI Bus has been one of the bastions in PC connectivity for roughly a decade now. The limitations of the PCI bus was first highlighted with the introduction of the ubiquitous AGP port back in the summer of 1997.

The main advantages of AGP are its increased bus speed / bandwidth as well as its point to point architecture. A point to point protocol means that AGP has its own path way to communicate with the processor as well as one to the memory whereas every device on the PCI bus had to share the 133 MB/s worth of bandwidth allocated to it. Both the AGP and PCI Bus are based on a 32 bit bus. AGP being clocked at 66 Mhz versus 33 for PCI had double the bandwidth (266 MB/s) in its first iteration. With the ability to transfer data multiple times per clock cycle, AGP in recent times (currently at a maximum of 8x, has ~2100MB/s of bandwith).

With a bevy of high speed I/O devices today outside of the graphics card including SATA / ATA150 (150 MB/s), Gigabyte Ethernet (125 MB/s), 1394B (100 MB/s) it is easy to see that any one of these devices alone can completely saturate the PCI bus completely. Nearly everything else in the PC has scaled in one way or another in the past decade except for the PCI bus. With the exception of PCI-X (a 64 bit, 66 Mhz, server solution), the PCI bus has stayed relatively stagnant while many of the subsystems have been scaling up (frontside bus speed, memory, AGP). Fortunately, this is about to change with the advent of PCI Express.

PCI Express
PCI Express (not to be confused with PCI-X) is the upcoming replacement for both PCI and AGP. A couple of main points about PCI Express

While the classic PCI Bus is based upon a parallel architecture, PCI Express is serial based, drastically reducing pin count.
It is a point to point protocol much like AGP. Devices do not share bandwidth

CattleRustler
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Posted: 24th Jan 2005 13:43
yes, my card is 16x pci-express.

Dom
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Posted: 25th Jan 2005 03:08
Quote: " Ooh: Gigabyte NVIDIA GeForce 6600 at £90."

WHERE!


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Preston C
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Posted: 25th Jan 2005 04:42
Just converting prices at Newegg from USD to Euros. Not sure if you can find one for that price in the UK.

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 25th Jan 2005 05:14
Quote: "Just converting prices at Newegg from USD to Euros. Not sure if you can find one for that price in the UK."


We use £ here... €90 would be ~£140. This is probably for a 6600 Standard PCX Correct? Because the AGP ones start at +$100. Was discussing why this was with Puffy last nite, while we were deciding what graphics system he should go for.

Preston C
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Posted: 25th Jan 2005 05:53 Edited at: 25th Jan 2005 05:53
Ah...just looked it up, thats the sign for british pounds isn't it, not Euros? Stupid me

I thought everyone over there was converting to Euro's or something. Damn you foreign language teachers.

Guess that lowers it. I was going from $116 for the NVIDIA GeForce 6600 PCI-Express x16 card, to European Euros and it comes to 90. Just converted it to British Pounds (current exchange rate from US Dollars to British Pounds is 0.5318), and it comes out to £61.69 (£61.6857). So ha, nowhere near the £140 you were talking about

Intel Celeron 1.3 Ghrz | 512 MB Ram | NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 128MB
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 25th Jan 2005 16:45
No, we're english and as such use £ pounds
After all if the rest of the world was moving to a single currency lets call it 'Credits' do you honestly believe America would give up with Dollars? Kinda the same thing, why should we give up something that is ours to join a Union that constantly is trying to force alot of european rules upon us that are directly against our own internal laws.

Well anyways, I was tired last nite (was up since like 4am ); This said I think it's BS that any company is selling the card that cheap.. there has to be a catch. Especially as the GeForce 6200 just entered the market at $120, why would companies be selling the 6600 cheaper?

Dazzag
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Posted: 26th Jan 2005 01:30 Edited at: 26th Jan 2005 01:32
http://www.dealtime.co.uk/xPC-Product_id:=23418914%20Lang_id1
Thats just from Dabs at £73. To be fair it was a quick dealtime effort and haven't looked elsewhere. But pretty close. And we *always* pay more than the US for IT stuff. Hmmm. Thats a 256mb version too. Assuming thats a 300Mhz version, there is still a 256mb 400Mhz version from micro direct for just under £100. Not bad.

Cheers

Ps. Why isn't my url link working? ie. cut and paste it to work

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Phaelax
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Posted: 26th Jan 2005 01:33
I got a 5900xt, which is suppose to run with the 9800. I'd also go with the geforce, because the radeon 9800 gave me so many compatiblity problems that I had to take it back.

*searches pricewatch*

oooo, a Fire GL V7100 (dont even try to afford that one)

The GeForce 6600 GT 128mb was £100

"eureka" - Archimedes
Dom
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Posted: 26th Jan 2005 01:55 Edited at: 26th Jan 2005 01:56
Please can you tell me where you are getting these prices from

Quote: "The GeForce 6600 GT 128mb was £100"

WHERE!

Oh and do PCI Express cards work in normal PCI slots?
(I feel like an idiot asking that question)


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Dom
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Posted: 26th Jan 2005 02:05
MSI GeForce FX 5900 ZT 128MB DDR VIVO TV-Out/DVI (AGP) - Retail Box
http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/products/index.html?action=c2hvd19wcm9kdWN0X292ZXJ2aWV3&product_uid=83434

OR

Sapphire Radeon 9800se Adv 128mb Ddr, Agp Dvi/tvo Retail
http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/products/index.html?rb=4847264825&action=c2hvd19wcm9kdWN0X292ZXJ2aWV3&product_uid=81744


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Dazzag
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Posted: 26th Jan 2005 06:25
Look on [href]www.dealtime.co.uk[/href] or [href]www.kelkoo.co.uk[/href]

Dealtime can be nicely ordered by price. So just search for 6600 and then order by price. Sorted.

There are other price guides, Unbeatable being really good for some things (couldn't find a particular projector cheaper for example).

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Zone Chicken
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Posted: 26th Jan 2005 06:27 Edited at: 26th Jan 2005 06:28
Quote: "Oh and do PCI Express cards work in normal PCI slots?
"


nope, however i have seen a pci express to agp slot converter
but i do belive they are pointless because there just bottlenecking the pci express card down to 8x anyway's. Only time this would be needed was if you building your own comp and wanted to buy pieces as you could afford them and where upgrading your motherboard in the future but needed a new graphics card before hand.

CattleRustler
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Posted: 26th Jan 2005 08:34
zone chicken, someone stole 1 MB of your ram!!!

Dot Merix
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Posted: 26th Jan 2005 12:30
Quote: "I'd also go with the geforce, because the radeon 9800 gave me so many compatiblity problems that I had to take it back.
"


I had absolutely no problems with mine whatsoever, works like a charm.

Radeon 9800pro 128mb



WindowsXP Home(Service pack 2), Athlon XP 2400+(2.1Ghz), 1GIG Ram, Ati Radeon 9800Pro 128MB.
Phaelax
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Posted: 26th Jan 2005 14:26
chaintech geforce 6600 256mb pci express.
http://www.buyxg.com/store/item.asp?id=1351

$148
£79
(based on http://www.xe.com/)

"eureka" - Archimedes
Dom
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Posted: 27th Jan 2005 01:19
Well I f i can find a mobo that takes PCI Express cards then I'll be getting an X600--


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Dazzag
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Posted: 27th Jan 2005 02:51
What do you mean? You can see loads if you do a dealtime effort. I saw one for about £46 that had PCI-Express and it looked ok (AMD64 effort). Although I didn't actually realise that motherboards can come with both PCI-Express *and* AGP. So can you like have 2 video cards? I mean I have a monitor with 4 inputs, including DVI and VGA, which can be swapped back and fore with a button. Pretty nice (esp. picture in picture). So, if you can have 2 video cards (one PCI-Express, and one AGP), then can you flip between the two, in a multi-desktop kinda way (perhaps even for 2 monitors), have the same system running on one card or the other (ATI in one, NVidia in the other, for max compat), or *even* in some SLI type mode that NVidia like to get upto (seriously doubt that one). I assume it's just the simple matter of either you use AGP or PCI-Express. ie. backwards compat for a while until everyone has just PCI-Express.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
CattleRustler
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Posted: 27th Jan 2005 03:10 Edited at: 27th Jan 2005 03:10
Asus P5GD2 - Deluxe


Dom
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Posted: 27th Jan 2005 04:18
Deluxe = ££££££


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Dom
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Posted: 27th Jan 2005 04:47
I have decided to go for a Club 3D Radeon 9800SE for £83


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Phaelax
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Posted: 27th Jan 2005 12:44
pci express and agp? ooo, anyone else thinking daisy chain?

"eureka" - Archimedes
Dazzag
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Posted: 27th Jan 2005 16:13
Yep, thats why I mention SLI. Although I would bet a lot of money that it won't do that. Will be one or the other. And I'm too lazy/ busy to google it...

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
blanky
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Posted: 27th Jan 2005 22:12
I use a Radeon 9600 Pro w/256MB RAM, and I can run UT2003 @ 1024x768 32 bit with 4xFSAA with *NO* visible slowdown, and completelty smooth.. then again, I am using a P4 3.2GHz..

I can run 3DS Max, OpenOffice, several copies of Mozilla, the crappy AOL dialler, 3 copies of CodeKEEPER, a Windowed DBC program and burn a CD at the same time (1GB RAM :p), which has very little to do with the graphics card but it's still ultra-kool.

So big deal. I may have to turn Doom 3 down to 800x60032bit, or turn my FSAA off. As I said before, big deal.

Get a Radeon 9600 if you've got a ~1-~2 yr old PC - they're cheap, but they pack plenty of horsepower

Avatar - white cat in a snowstorm. Look closely.
Dom
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Posted: 28th Jan 2005 00:41
Well this is for my scratch built PC. Im getting all the parts a couple days after my B'Day (In Feb )


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AlexI
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Posted: 28th Jan 2005 16:35
how much does it all cost!

for more computer parts

[href]http//www.maplin.co.uk[/href]
Dom
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Posted: 29th Jan 2005 05:15
In total £436.65.
Specs are:
Processor-XP2800+
Mobo-Gigabyte GA-7NVT600P-RZ
RAM-Corasir 256mb DDR400 x2
HD-Western Digital 80GB
DVD RW/W-Samsung 16x Dual Layer
Case+Mouse+Keyboard+Speakers Bundel-Deluxeworld 4 in 1 pack
PSU-Ebuyer 500w Dual Fans
Graphics-Sapphire radeon 9800se 128mb
OS-Windows XP Home

Plus some extra wires and fans


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