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FPSC Classic Product Chat / Official Announcement-Licensing Fee for Commercial Use

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Kou Kou
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Posted: 10th Feb 2005 01:05
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This looked like the best spot to ask this since it's centric on licensing and the hope of perhaps selling a game made with the FPSC... Sorry if it's OT or missplaced.

Regarding selling from the Game Creators website for a royalty split: I'm wondering more about marketing and placement than about splits and viability of marketing and such.

If you landed on a site/catalog that is selling games, but it is located on the same site as an easy-to-use game creation authoring system... That is surrounded by product placement ads for other easy-to-use-point-and-click game creation software titles...

I applaud the concept of FPSC, but business is business. Wouldn't this marketing concept be similar to placing a convenience store inside of a discount warehouse? (Bad example, but I'm a busy guy... LOL)

How can you hope to sell a product that is marketed within an environment that undermines the value of the product? In other words: Won't we really be selling the FPSC instead of the games that are made with it?

Knowledge is money. Shouldn't the market be seperated from the production environment? Just my .02

Dwayne
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uman
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Posted: 10th Feb 2005 01:52
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Kou Kou,

Fair comment I guess, and there is possibly some correct truth there - though by and large I suspect that there wont actually be much competition there if people want to buy a serious game that would have a reasonable price tag as making such a game relatively speaking would be much more difficult than making games intended purely for fun.

Many looking at FPSC would just want to do that and not invest such effort as required to make saleable game which aint easy.

There are too many freely available games around these days. If you want people to buy it it will have to be damn good or you wont sell many. At least if it aint good you wont sell any sequel.

Your point is very valid though I suppose any web site that held games made with FPSC for sale would not necessarily have to be linked to directly from TGC site? FPSC web site though very unlikely could be independant of TGC site, much as it appears now.
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Cloud of Crows Studios
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Posted: 10th Feb 2005 04:36 Edited at: 10th Feb 2005 04:38
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Quote: "If you want people to buy it it will have to be damn good or you wont sell many."


Hmmm I don't think uman's been buying games in America lately, because they can suck enormously, but as long as they require the latest greatest video cards they ship hundreds of thousands of units out

Quote: "I applaud the concept of FPSC, but business is business. Wouldn't this marketing concept be similar to placing a convenience store inside of a discount warehouse? (Bad example, but I'm a busy guy... LOL)"


I agree. What happens if we find a publisher willing to commit to x amount of units (don't laugh there is a huge "bargin bin" and addon market in the United States). Obviously you CAN'T sell through the FPSC or TGC website in this instance...
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SkyCubes
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Posted: 10th Feb 2005 05:24
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I agree with Cloud on the bargin bin comment. I think a guy could throw together 4-5 20-level games with FPSC (with a good storyline) with a good URL and the right marketing/design could sell a quite a few for $9.99USD. There are alot of kids who can nag their parents enough into buying these kinds of games...especially if the site has enough bells and whistles on it.

I mean, look how many of those ridiculous little puzzle games sell every day for 10 bucks. People love to throw money away.

Just my opinion.

"Beware of people who try and belittle your ambitions. Small people do that. The really great people are the ones who make you feel that you too can become great" --Mark Twain
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Logan 5
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Posted: 10th Feb 2005 05:34
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Not that I disagree with Kou Kou's point, but just about every game creator in all the genres (FPS, RPG, scrollers, etc.) sells games on its website that were made using its game creation software. A good game -- made with good custom media -- will still sell. I'll venture to say that, even with FPSC, most people won't be able to create sellable games, so the idea that "why would I buy that when I could just buy FPSC and make it myself" will probably only hurt game sales a little.

Basically dark.
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Kou Kou
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Posted: 10th Feb 2005 23:17
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Those are all good points. Thanks folks.

I guess my post was more of a probe than an observation. To see if there was any consideration of placing the end-user game catalog outside of the FPSC or TGC website domains.

The reason is because I am sensing that many small operators will not be able to market their games any other way. Not because they can't build their own site, but because the licensing may be out of reach.

Perhaps I'm wrong (happens a lot), but the delays with declaring a license fee may also have something to do with how the commercial license fee is going to be assessed.

Is it possible, or is it being considered, that developers selling their games through the royalty split model will pay a lesser or no commercial license fee? As long as ALL sales are via the TGC web catalog?

If this end up as the case then the marketing and catalog placement question becomes very very important...

The reason I bring this all up is because I think that would be an excellent avenue for small fish developers. TGC controls all sales and gets their rev-share off the top.... Reduced or waived license fees, etc.

Sound anything like cool?

Dwayne
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Ali
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Posted: 11th Feb 2005 00:53
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It seems like people here have the amateur idea where they think it's possible to sell 10 rubbish games for $10.

I have to say that it doesn't word like that. A game either sells or it doesn't. Also, if a game goes for $10 is may have less sales than exactly the same game for $30, just because people will assume it's rubbish if it's only worth $10.

And I can say this because I have experience in the shareware industry. It may be different for the retail game industry - because the user doesn't get to see the game before they buy it. But let's face it, no retail publisher actually looks for rubbish games, they look for good games - ones that do sell, at least at first.

Your game will have to be amazingly good in order to sell. FPS Creator should be able to give you nice graphics and such, which is half of what's needed. The other half is a game that's amazingly fun. I've tested about 15 first-person-shooters this week just to see what they did good and what they did bad. I have to say that Doom 3 & Halo have amazing graphics, are reasonably original and have loads of special features... but, Half-Life is more fun to play even though it's simpler and has less special features or storyline. Basically you don't want the player getting bored or confused, which Doom 3 and Halo did, and Half-Life didn't.
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Logan 5
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Posted: 11th Feb 2005 01:03
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Quote: "Your game will have to be amazingly good in order to sell."


I have to disagree with this statement, at least to an extent. Though I have to admit that I've never sold or even worked on anything as complex as HL2 or Doom 3, it seems like it's always the games I consider crappy that go over well, and the games I put the most energy into -- that I think are phenomenal -- that go nowhere and make me no money.

It's amazing sometimes what sells and what doesn't.

Basically dark.
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Ali
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Posted: 11th Feb 2005 01:36
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Quote: "I have to disagree with this statement, at least to an extent. Though I have to admit that I've never sold or even worked on anything as complex as HL2 or Doom 3, it seems like it's always the games I consider crappy that go over well, and the games I put the most energy into -- that I think are phenomenal -- that go nowhere and make me no money.

It's amazing sometimes what sells and what doesn't."

That's because the gloss and marketing sells the game. In the retail game business all you need to sell a game is hype and loads of marketing. While in the shareware business, which would be more realistic for us, you need a damn good game because the player sees what it's like before forking out the cash.

I could give you a massive list of all the qualities a game needs to sell, without any one of them it won't. I'm talking about shareware here again, all a retail game needs to sell is a good screenshot on the back of the box along with all the gloss/marketing.
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Logan 5
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Posted: 11th Feb 2005 02:22
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You're probably right when it comes to selling to the general market, but if developers think a little out of the box, there is plenty of money to be made.

I sell educational games to the technical training community, and I know what they don't need to do:

1) Educate
2) Be technical
3) Train

Here is what they do need to do:

1) Be fun.

Unfortunately, I'm not always the best judge of what's fun. I've built some games I thought were a blast that no one played for more than a few games. Other games that I thought were embarassingly bad had people playing for hours.

Basically dark.
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Ali
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Posted: 11th Feb 2005 02:46
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Quote: "I sell educational games to the technical training community, and I know what they don't need to do:

1) Educate
2) Be technical
3) Train

Here is what they do need to do:

1) Be fun.

Unfortunately, I'm not always the best judge of what's fun. I've built some games I thought were a blast that no one played for more than a few games. Other games that I thought were embarassingly bad had people playing for hours."


You're exactly right there! Fun, fun, fun all the way. Now for first-person-shooters killing things and having loads of blood spraying around it much fun, and that's the easy part of making it for FPS Creator. The hard part is making the game replayable and not boring, confusing or tedious.

Storyline makes a big difference between levels. But in the actual level you just want kill kill kill and no waiting around, getting lost or wondering what to do next. This is what happens when a game gets too complicated. The fun part is what sells the game (good graphics are fun), and having a realistic, complicated game is not good if it compromises the fun factor. Life is realistic and complicated, and if life were so much fun we wouldn't be playing games!
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uman
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Posted: 11th Feb 2005 02:58
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Cloud of Crows Studios, my friend,

"Hmmm I don't think uman's been buying games in America lately, because they can suck enormously, but as long as they require the latest greatest video cards they ship hundreds of thousands of units out."

You are right I have not been buying games in America......Which are those games then that you say suck that have been selling hundreds of thoudsands of units called and where do I see them? Looks like I need to study there. Obviously there are a lot of people then that dont seem to agree with you that those games suck as they are paying out hard cash - yes. No accounting for taste eh!

On the other hand - if you are correct - then it sounds like I'm on to a winner then - millionaire in no time if I can work out how to make a game that sucks.

Wont aim too high then
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Logan 5
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Posted: 11th Feb 2005 04:01
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Sorry, uman, to make a game that bad you have to license a DC superhero.

Basically dark.
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Eric T
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Posted: 11th Feb 2005 06:39
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Quote: ""Jesus, calm down.""


Oh, so now we have to call Davey boy "jesus"

j/k

As for a Commercial License... I dunno if thats something to be needed to be worried about right now. First get the program sold, bug free, all that stuff, then start thinking about the licensing...

(I only skimmed through the thread BTW... not enough time to read all the comments, got some KOTOR2 to be playing )

If you love someone, set them free; If they come home, set them on fire.
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Aoneweb
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Posted: 11th Feb 2005 08:04
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You could find a publisher and get them to buy the license as part of a publishing deal.
If you wish to publish it yourself and no price is available, then email TGC and tell them, but please wait for the V1 release, Then this question can be asked again.

Toshiba Sattelite, 2GHz,Nvidia GeForce4 420go, Windows XP Home. www.aoneweb.com
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