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Geek Culture / nice computer configs?

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bitJericho
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Posted: 24th Feb 2005 05:31 Edited at: 24th Feb 2005 06:09
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Heya, I'm looking into building a computer for somebody, and these are the two configs I've come up with, one's 400usd cheaper than the other, and I'm wondering what you're thoughts are. The lists aren't set in stone, and I've got to get my brother to go through it (he's the hardware expert) to make sure I've got the right components for the job.

http://secure.newegg.com/app/WishR.asp?ID=1342267

http://secure.newegg.com/app/WishR.asp?ID=1341859

The idea is to have a high end pc, with a dvd-rom and a dvd/cdrw burner.

I also need a tv tuner so that movies from vhs can be recorded to dvd (personal use only) so as not to wear out the vhs tapes.

What do you guys think?

I guess one thing to bring up, would it be better, for the cheap one, to go to a pentium 4 celeron, 2.0ghz or so, and a mobo to match, or stick with a pentium 3, 1.0 ghz?


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ionstream
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Posted: 24th Feb 2005 06:18
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The second one is without a doubt much, much better than the first. That one is crap.

Also, as far as TV tuners go...

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=15-123-001&depa=0

That one l00ks teh best.

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bitJericho
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Posted: 24th Feb 2005 06:36 Edited at: 24th Feb 2005 06:37
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i know 400 dollars goes a long way

I'm *trying* to get the first one at about 1000, but it's difficult when every penny you use goes so far, you keep wanting to use that one extra dollar

I'm thinking I should go with a socket t using a celeron, instead of the pentium 3, if only because it'll be upgradeable cheaper..

But the cheaper socket t mobo's aren't what I want x_x

woah nice find on the tuner.. I'm going to use that instead


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mm0zct
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Posted: 24th Feb 2005 07:17
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not looked at the links but usually AMD processors and boards are a lot cheaper than intel
[href]www.ebuyer.com[/href] has some great prices for hardware.

http://www.larinar.tk
AMD athlon 64 3000+, 512mb ddr400, abit kv8, 160gb hdd, gigabit lan, ati radeom 9800se 128mb.
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Osiris
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Posted: 24th Feb 2005 08:12
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[href]www.ibuypower.com[/href]

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ionstream
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Posted: 24th Feb 2005 08:38
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no, newegg and compgeeks. I hate those eShop kind of things, they always have these wierd stores on them, and you can never trust them. You can trust newegg and compgeeks!

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bitJericho
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Posted: 24th Feb 2005 15:54
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I don't want an amd. Don't worry, I'm quite educated on them The amd's simply aren't going to be upgrading their 32 bit processors much longer. I don't want a 64 bit processor, so I'll stick with the 32 bit intel's for now

It seems price is not so much an issue, the *almost* final product will be here:

http://secure.newegg.com/app/WishR.asp?ID=1341859


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Dot Merix
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Posted: 24th Feb 2005 22:15
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NEVER BUY A CELERON!

You know how Intel decides whether the processor is a celeron or a pentium?

Answer: It's a pentium chip that has -some- sort of flaw to it. They just chuck it in and say they designed it that way



WindowsXP Home(Service pack 2), Athlon XP 2400+(2.1Ghz), 1GIG Ram, Ati Radeon 9800Pro 128MB.
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bitJericho
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Posted: 24th Feb 2005 22:53
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you make it sound so evil

Celeron's aren't that bad. And it sure is nice saving 100 bucks. For standard computer use, where the user only surfs the internet and whatnot, I would say put that 100 dollars to better use!

But when you're using a computer that is going to take advantage of the processor, then yes, you'd want a full on pentium 4.


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Emperor Baal
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Posted: 25th Feb 2005 00:33
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Quote: " I don't want an amd. Don't worry, I'm quite educated on them The amd's simply aren't going to be upgrading their 32 bit processors much longer. I don't want a 64 bit processor, so I'll stick with the 32 bit intel's for now"


That's dumb really:

1) They wont be upgrading their 32 bit processors anymore, is that a problem? No, because 64-bit will replace 32 bit very soon, so Intel will drop 32bit as well.

2) So, why dont you want a 64 bit processor? AMD's 64-bit are perfectly backwards compatible with 32 bit software

3) If I understand, you don't want a AMD because they stop updating 32-bit processors, you want to buy faster 32-bit processors later? Get a 64-bit and you don't have to worry about getting "uptodate".

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ionstream
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Posted: 25th Feb 2005 02:44
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Quote: "So, why dont you want a 64 bit processor? AMD's 64-bit are perfectly backwards compatible with 32 bit software"


Yes, but 32 bit apps are slower. When more programs start using 64 bit instructions, then it would be reasonable to buy an AMD 64.

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bitJericho
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Posted: 25th Feb 2005 02:50
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Quote: "They wont be upgrading their 32 bit processors anymore, is that a problem? No, because 64-bit will replace 32 bit very soon, so Intel will drop 32bit as well."


Nah, I'll wait till the next major upgrade to go for the 64 bit..

As it is intel will be upgrading their 32 bits for some time yet.

Plus a concern of mine is what happens if the fan fries out, the amd's start on fire from what I've read

Plus windows xp 64 bit edition hasn't even been released by ms yet. PLUS the fact that there's hardly any software supporting the 64 processor, so the processor reverts back to 32 bit emulation anyway!

I think my money's better spent on a 32 bit processor for now..

Maybe in a year or two I'll go 64 bit.


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the_winch
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Posted: 25th Feb 2005 03:13
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Quote: "As it is intel will be upgrading their 32 bits for some time yet."


What difference does it make? Trying to future proof a pc is a waste of time and money. Get what is the best value for money now. In a years time it will be obsolete whatever you do.

Quote: "Plus a concern of mine is what happens if the fan fries out, the amd's start on fire from what I've read"


Perhaps you should do some more research.

Quote: "this is not a quote"
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bitJericho
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Posted: 25th Feb 2005 03:40
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Quote: "What difference does it make? Trying to future proof a pc is a waste of time and money. Get what is the best value for money now. In a years time it will be obsolete whatever you do."


Well, when you're betting on one processor over the other and how you're upgrade path will follow in two years...

Will amd or intel have the cheaper upgrades in two years time for the motherboard you bought two years ago?

That can mean the difference between a minor 50 dollar upgrade or a major 200 dollar upgrade.


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Emperor Baal
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Posted: 25th Feb 2005 04:22 Edited at: 25th Feb 2005 04:23
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Quote: "Yes, but 32 bit apps are slower. When more programs start using 64 bit instructions, then it would be reasonable to buy an AMD 64."


wrong
The AMD 64 is designed to emulate without cutting performance

Quote: "Plus a concern of mine is what happens if the fan fries out, the amd's start on fire from what I've read"


wrong
They dont catch fire:
1) they just die and do nothing anymore
-or-
2) the motherboard detects the high temperature (asus mobo's for example) and cuts the power

Quote: "Well, when you're betting on one processor over the other and how you're upgrade path will follow in two years...

Will amd or intel have the cheaper upgrades in two years time for the motherboard you bought two years ago?

That can mean the difference between a minor 50 dollar upgrade or a major 200 dollar upgrade."


maybe
But what will happen if your favorite game's sequel comes out, and it requires a 64-bit cpu?

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bitJericho
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Posted: 25th Feb 2005 04:24
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Quote: "But what will happen if your favorite game's sequel comes out, and it requires a 64-bit cpu?"


It won't be used for games.


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Emperor Baal
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Posted: 25th Feb 2005 06:40
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replace game with software

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Phaelax
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Posted: 25th Feb 2005 09:52 Edited at: 25th Feb 2005 09:54
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First link didn't show anything.

$400 for a scanner? way too much.
why an external harddrive?
Don't really need 2 burners.

Intel is about to release a new version of the Prescott chip. Supposedly, it'll run cooler than the current prescotts. So maybe you might want to make that a consideration.

p.s. I believe AMD just released their dual core cpu. The 64-bit chip if I remember correctly.

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ionstream
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Posted: 25th Feb 2005 10:23
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Baal, you are wrong.

http://firingsquad.com/hardware/athlon_fx_preview/page12.asp

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Eric T
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Posted: 25th Feb 2005 16:17
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I use a AMD 64bit 3200+, I have it on all day (usually 2 or 3 days at a time), I use it for processer intensive things (rendering and gaming) overnight, and have not once had a trouble with overheating or "catching fire".

It works better then my P4 2.8ghz I have in the studio, and unlike that one, the AMD one dosen't overheat. It benchmarks better then the P4 2.8 and using the same Vid card (9600xt), my AMD can run HL2 in high quality mode.

The only regret I have is that I didn't go for the 3400+ while I had the extra money at that time, instead I spent the extra money on games and not a better vid card or processer.

Speaking of AMD, my K6-2 laptop is now running XP

"We were somewhere around Barstow on the edge of the desert when the drugs began to take hold..."
- From Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas by Hunter S Thompson (1937-2005)
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bitJericho
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Posted: 25th Feb 2005 23:52
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Quote: "$400 for a scanner? way too much."


We're looking into *close to production* quality. Also need a *very* good negative scanner. It may seem like a lot for a scanner, but it's what's needed.

Quote: "why an external harddrive?"


That's still in consideration, at first this computer wasn't going to be hooked into a network or go online, now it is. So we may look into getting a cheaper (and less disk space) drive here in town if one at all.

Quote: "Don't really need 2 burners."

The cd-rw/dvd-rom drive is about 5 dollars more expensive than the cd/dvd-rom drive.

For 5 extra bucks to be able to use that for burning, why not? Now if the first one fails the second one can still be used to burn cd-r/rw.


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Emperor Baal
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Posted: 26th Feb 2005 01:52
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ionstream

Read more carefully next time:

There is a small overheard associated with running 32-bit code on a 64-bit operating system, according to Damon Muzny of AMD. However, the performance deltas we see here are more likely due to a combination of the immature OS, un-optimized drivers (a 64-bit OS requires 64-bit drivers, and NVIDIA’s Detonator family hasn’t yet been optimized for performance), and the small overhead AMD mentioned. These scores will certainly improve over the next few months, but at least we’ve seen today’s 32-bit applications running stably on tomorrow’s 64-bit platform.

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mm0zct
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Posted: 26th Feb 2005 07:06 Edited at: 27th Feb 2005 09:16
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intel might keep using 32 bit but THEY CHANGE THEIR PIN LAYOUT REGULARLY just thought i needed to bring that to your attention. they are about to or have already released a new pin layout and are not upgrading processors for the older pin types.
also new celeron Ds fit in old celeron sockets but don't work.

as for the athlon 64 issue if you use a normal 32bit os then it just runs like a fast 32 bit procesor i think, if you use a 64 bit os eg the 64bit beta of windows xp you need special 64 bit drivers. if you use a 64 bit os the 32bit apps are emulated like 16 bit one in 32 it os's but i find no performance hit, seems to work even better for me. (i have dual boot xp32 and xp64).


edit: and wtf do you mean 64bit won't be used for games, do you think someone said that when they brought out new 32bit processos years ago when there were 16 bit games?

http://www.larinar.tk
AMD athlon 64 3000+, 512mb ddr400, abit kv8, 160gb hdd, gigabit lan, ati radeom 9800se 128mb.
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Phaelax
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Posted: 26th Feb 2005 10:11
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well, you know what you need more than I do. So it all sounds good.

I run dual athlon mobo at home, and the only heat problems I get are with the bedroom itself, not the computer.

Some game companies are already considering putting 64-bit support in their next releases. I dont recall off hand which ones exactly, but I've seen random articles about it on gamedev.

"eureka" - Archimedes
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bitJericho
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Posted: 26th Feb 2005 12:03
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Quote: "intel might keep using 32 bit but THEY CHANGE THEIR PIN LAYOUT REGULARLY"


That's why I'm going for the lga775 socket mobo.. brand new layout

Quote: "edit: and wtf do you mean 64bit won't be used for games, do you think someone said that when they brought out new 32bit processos years ago when there were 16 bit games?"


No crazy, the *computer* that's being built isn't going to be used for games.


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mm0zct
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Posted: 27th Feb 2005 09:12 Edited at: 27th Feb 2005 09:15
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oh sorry i missunderstood about the games but the same goes for other software anyway.
and about the pins, sorry i hadn't checked the pins config in the links but it's still a valid point that they may change in a year or so.

edit:
reread the link and yeah it looks like a nice rig anyway, not a bad price by the current currency conversion rate either.

http://www.larinar.tk
AMD athlon 64 3000+, 512mb ddr400, abit kv8, 160gb hdd, gigabit lan, ati radeom 9800se 128mb.
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