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Geek Culture / Chip Implants

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NathanF
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Posted: 8th Mar 2005 18:06 Edited at: 8th Mar 2005 18:13
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Remember a while back, I posted a thread on these micro-chip implants, that are used instead of credit cards?
Well now it seems things are advancing a lot.
They are somewhat prophecised in the bible as evil (the 'mark' being the chip, and this 'beast' being the orginisation, or leader.):

Quote: "
It was given to him to give breath to it, to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause as many as wouldn't worship the image of the beast to be killed.
He causes all, the small and the great, the rich and the poor, and the free and the slave, to be given marks on their right hands, or on their foreheads and that no one would be able to buy or to sell, unless he has that mark, the name of the beast or the number of his name.
Here is wisdom. He who has understanding, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man. His number is six hundred sixty-six.
"


Old thread:
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=35914&b=2

I may sound like some religous fanatic (Which Im actually not), but all this seems too real. The media has already began advertising it, on TV already. What really hit me, was that an episode of CSI-Miami (I think it was) actually shows the chip in use. That is what reminded me of it all. It just shows how rapidly things are advancing for this chip.

I read some stuff on this page, and everyone seems so very eager to be 'chipped', it's just amazing:

http://www.citizinemag.com/politics/politics-0411_agonzales_verichip.htm
(starts about half way down)

Quote: ""In the post-9/11 world, we are already racing down the path to total surveillance. The only thing missing to clinch the deal has been the technology. This may fill that gap.""
- What it actually said on the site.

With this kind of acceptance from the public, in the future (near or far), these things may be forced onto people, and used for more than just 'paying for items'. What concerns me though, is the whole bible thing being against it, it just seems like some sort of warning...



Here's some other sites with info on it:
http://www.detailshere.com/verichip.htm
http://www.icomm.ca/survival/id-chip.htm
http://www.4verichip.com/verichip.htm

Just wondered if anyone else was interested...


"Blame yourself, or God." - Delita
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Van B
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Posted: 8th Mar 2005 19:04
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I'm interested in...

* Will this chip turn out to be a carcenagen? - Tons of stuff get through government guidelines, who's to say that this chip is 100% safe?

* What are we gonna do when people learn how to make fake chips?

* Exactly what information is stored on this chip and what is gathered from it.


I don't expect any answers, that's just the reasons why they can shove their chip somewhere that won't need surgery to get it in.

WTF is wrong with figerprint ID or retina scans? - doable technology and we don't have to walk around with bit's of metal and glass under our skin.


Van-B


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NathanF
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Posted: 8th Mar 2005 19:39
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I have read somewhere on the net, that each chip can store about one paragraph of data, but most importantly be detected from some distance. I guess this makes it the prefferable option.

But you're right, you could quite easily set up a database of information on each person, and simply use fingerprint scans to match the correct set of data. But still, these chips being electronic, there would be no delay in searching for your file, as there probably would in scanning a part of the person.

Fake chips? I'm not exactly sure how it is all set up, but the only thing I can think of here, is that if you duplicate a chip, you can do all sorts of things and get away with them.

The chips might store anything from an ID number, to a whole set of information on the person, I really don't know. It seems like you would simply swipe your hand over a scanner of some sort, and it would make a transaction, and probably get your position (the location of the scanner), and send all the data to a centeral database.

This could be the scary thing, they could simply place check points all over the world, and to pass an area you would have to scan it. They then know your position, or have a good guess, know where you've been, and what you've been doing.


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Van B
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Posted: 8th Mar 2005 20:06
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The problem is that all this technology and data is not limited to government bodies, before long Paparazzi will be using it to pinpoint celebrities close by, kidnappers and assasins jobs will be so much easier, and the government will know exactly where we are all the time.


Van-B


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Dave J
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Posted: 8th Mar 2005 20:06 Edited at: 8th Mar 2005 20:10
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So I don't suppose these 'chips' are edible then?


"Computers are useless, they can only give you answers."
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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 8th Mar 2005 20:10
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I said it before and I'll say it again. They will never put one of those in my Thumb. If I'm getting robbed they can have my wallet. I'm not giving them my thumb

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Benjamin
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Posted: 8th Mar 2005 20:28
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What if someone holds a magnet up to near where a chip is implanted?


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Jess T
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Posted: 8th Mar 2005 21:23
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Wow, what a waste of good research and technicians.

I would have though putting money toward more advanced scanning systems ( like Van said ) for the eye's or other unique, natural identifiers like thermal "fingerprinting" ( each person's face has a unique thermal characteristic, apparently ).

I guess that it's just the American's going crazy about all sorts of stuff cos of the hype about terrorism. ( although, by "hype", I mean, the things Media say, and the pressure the government puts on development of stuff like this ).

I'm one of those people who wont give Credit Card details online unless I'm 100% sure ( after research and asking around ) that it's secure. And I don't trust ATM's anymore. I always check the key-pad before using it ( for the over-lays that people put on 'em ), and I put my other hand over the one doing the PIN'ing, so no camera's can catch me.

What makes me want to trust this? Nothing at all.

Personally, I don't see a relationship between what's in the "Bible" and what this is, it's just coincidence ( I'm not a beleiver in predicting things. Period, so don't try to flame me for some religous thing, otherwise I'll lock the thread ).

Yay.


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Benjamin
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Posted: 8th Mar 2005 21:32
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Trust it to be an American thing though eh?


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Peter H
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Posted: 8th Mar 2005 21:51
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Quote: "Fake chips? I'm not exactly sure how it is all set up, but the only thing I can think of here, is that if you duplicate a chip, you can do all sorts of things and get away with them.
"

OR do things and have somebodey else blamed for them ("oh, but sir we have proof that you were the murderer...")


Quote: "I may sound like some religous fanatic (Which Im actually not), but all this seems too real. The media has already began advertising it, on TV already. What really hit me, was that an episode of CSI-Miami (I think it was) actually shows the chip in use. That is what reminded me of it all. It just shows how rapidly things are advancing for this chip.
"

yeah, i'm christian. And there is no way i'm letting them implant this thing in me, unless i'm convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that this is not what the bible is talking about (if it involves the number 666 they'd have to kill me first)

"We make the worst games in the universe."

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Van B
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Posted: 8th Mar 2005 22:41
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Remember there's no way that the government can enforce this, so as long as you refuse to get 'tagged' it'll blow over and they'll come up with something else. Are stores gonna refuse to sell to untagged shoppers? - I doubt it very much.

Listen to Ian Brown's song - No I.D, I love the last verse :



Van-B


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Peter H
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Posted: 8th Mar 2005 23:46 Edited at: 8th Mar 2005 23:46
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Quote: "Are stores gonna refuse to sell to untagged shoppers? - I doubt it very much.
"

they will if it becomes the standard...

think of it this way...it used to be you would go and trade in wheat or something to get stuff...and then money "came out"...and now you can't buy something at a store without money...if eventually they do away with normal currency and just use this then at that point stores would only accept it...

but i don't think we will have to worry about being forced to have one of these for a long time.

"We make the worst games in the universe."

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Van B
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Posted: 9th Mar 2005 00:21
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Not at all, no government on this planet could legally force anyone to have that thing inserted in them - it's a breach of our basic human rights. They could'nt even insert them into violent criminals to keep tabs on them - because they can't do anything like this without consent.


Van-B


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Toby Quan
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Posted: 9th Mar 2005 00:22
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Quote: "Are stores gonna refuse to sell to untagged shoppers? - I doubt it very much"


Under the right influences, anything can happen.

If the goverment offers benefits to stores who sell only to people with the mark, then many of them will gladly do it, even though it doesn't make much common sense.

That happened to our school system here in Minnesota. The state wanted to implement badly-designed education program (called Profiles of Learning) to all schools. They offered extra funding to all schools who incorporated the program into their system. And guess what - the schools wanted more $$$, so they all did it. Money talks.

You never know. Nothing is sacred. Nothing lasts forever. Nothing is guaranteed to you.
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Peter H
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Posted: 9th Mar 2005 00:26
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Quote: "Not at all, no government on this planet could legally force anyone to have that thing inserted in them - it's a breach of our basic human rights"

so is abortion...

"We make the worst games in the universe."

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GothOtaku
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Posted: 9th Mar 2005 00:40
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Quote: "WTF is wrong with figerprint ID or retina scans? - doable technology and we don't have to walk around with bit's of metal and glass under our skin."

Exactly what I was thinking.
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Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 9th Mar 2005 00:46
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omg talk about the worse bible misquote ever...

this stuff is the whole reaosn i reckon police cameras should be banned. it may film someone being murdered but it doesnt stop the fact that that persons been murdered, and you think thats really the reason cameras are everywhere?

you realise that one day the government will be able to do whatever they want with us since we cant rebell as they'll know our every move

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Neofish
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Posted: 9th Mar 2005 02:40
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If someone actually tried to force a chip on me (the government etc) then I would actually go into hidding and avoid it I'm ok with the gov keeping info in dbs but knowing where I am in real time would be stupid...

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Jimmy
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Posted: 9th Mar 2005 05:38
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I can't wait.

*holds thumb out*


Well we all shine on, like the moon, and the stars, and the sun.
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Dave J
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Posted: 9th Mar 2005 07:00
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Quote: "WTF is wrong with figerprint ID or retina scans?"


It's a known fact that continual use of retina scanners will destroy your eyesight very quickly and I hear it's only a matter of time before you lose the feeling in your fingers causing you to develop genital herpes. Not sure about that last one though.


"Computers are useless, they can only give you answers."
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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 9th Mar 2005 09:15
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Whats wrong with just keeping a credit card (type thingy) on a chain around your neck

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Osiris
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Posted: 9th Mar 2005 09:16
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Like in Irobot...

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Jeku
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Posted: 9th Mar 2005 12:09
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I don't recall that from I, Robot.


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bitJericho
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Posted: 9th Mar 2005 13:10
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Quote: "I said it before and I'll say it again. They will never put one of those in my Thumb. If I'm getting robbed they can have my wallet. I'm not giving them my thumb "


LOL that's what my mother said.

Quote: "With this kind of acceptance from the public, in the future (near or far), these things may be forced onto people, and used for more than just 'paying for items'. What concerns me though, is the whole bible thing being against it, it just seems like some sort of warning..."


I'm certainly not religous, but the bible is full of great advice. It doesn't take a prophecy for someone to realize something's wrong.

I think the bible was created to help people realize what's right and what's wrong.

I'll never get this implant, and I'll make sure as hell my family doesn't get these devices, and that my kids never allow themselves such a device when they grow up.

It's a bad idea, period.


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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 9th Mar 2005 13:20
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@Jerico2day ... Smart woman

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NathanF
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Posted: 9th Mar 2005 13:46
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Quote: "Remember there's no way that the government can enforce this"

That's true, but what if the vast majority of people accept it, after being brainwashed by the media, and various other sources?
If for a long period of time they do use it, it will become the standard form of money in the future. Im talking, in say, 100-200 years. The government and media can gradually introduce it as being a good thing, and before long, everyone will want one.
Just think 500 years back, a lot of things have changed since then. If you were to show them the kind of technology we have now, the way people do things, they would think it was unacceptable...Just as you think this 'chipping' business is.


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Van B
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Posted: 9th Mar 2005 16:34
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100 years ago a scientist predicted that by the year 2000, the whole of England would be under 12 feet of horse manure.

If the car had never been discovered, and horses went on to become our chief source of transport, we still would'nt have a situation like that.

By 1 foot deep, the government would have taxed pooping in the street and made it illegal to dump without a licence, registration, and insurance in case someone steps in it.


Imagine dropping a sweety wrapper at 3 in the morning on the way home from the pub, a video camera picks you up and scans your chip - and you wake in the morning with a hangover and a £50 fine. It's already illegal to drop litter, which is fair enough, but at £50 a pop - can you imagine what they'll do once they can identify people on camera's doing naughty things?

Not that I drop litter, or manure, just saying we can't trust the government to use this technology and not find some way to make us pay for it.


Van-B


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the_winch
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Posted: 9th Mar 2005 21:21
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Quote: "Remember there's no way that the government can enforce this"


They would only have to enforce it with the part of the population that didn't want it. A lot of people have no problem with stuff that doesn't inconvience them.

It's the same with id cards, most of the people that want them will never be in a situation where they are required. If they thought there would be police checking at the supermarket instead of on the street at closing time their opinion would be different.

Quote: "this is not a quote"
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Mr Underhill
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Posted: 10th Mar 2005 02:52 Edited at: 10th Mar 2005 02:52
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Quote: "Just think 500 years back, a lot of things have changed since then. If you were to show them the kind of technology we have now, the way people do things, they would think it was unacceptable...Just as you think this 'chipping' business is."


Or they'd envy you and come begging for the new technology that, in the end, may or may not be good for them.
Mark Twain strikes again.

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