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Geek Culture / Self-moderating? [forum idea]

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Three Score
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Posted: 9th Mar 2005 09:26
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a thing i really reallly think should happen is self moderating so that you could delete your own threads, lock your own threads, and edit any of your own posts in ANY way and ANY post and also being able to change the title and move it to different boards

Q&A
q: what if a mod locks your thread
a: well of course it will be completely untouchable by you
q: what if you lock your own thread
a: same as above


well all i can think of post any disadvantage of this though(besides that you would have to chaneg the forum a bit)

quit hiting the computer; computers can only do what they are told so we must be telling them to do wrong things
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Osiris
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Posted: 9th Mar 2005 09:31
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What if someone posts pron, and then locks it, what then eh...

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Sol462
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Posted: 9th Mar 2005 09:46
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The mods would still have control of it, in this case deleting it. Sounds like a good idea, and it would sure stop those posts saying, "mods please lock this."
But on the other hand I doubt that the idea will make it into reality.

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Jimmy
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Posted: 9th Mar 2005 10:35
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It would be too tempting for me to start a controversial thread then lock it once I get the last word in.


Well we all shine on, like the moon, and the stars, and the sun.
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Sol462
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Posted: 9th Mar 2005 10:44
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Lol. Then Mouse comes along and unlocks it. Or deletes it or whatever.

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Posted: 9th Mar 2005 11:42
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yea good point but still i mean u made it so you hsould be able to control it

quit hiting the computer; computers can only do what they are told so we must be telling them to do wrong things
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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 9th Mar 2005 11:47 Edited at: 9th Mar 2005 11:52
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The only extra powers I think we should have are. Lock your own thread, rename your own thread, and most importantly .... You should be able to edit the source boxes in your post. Alot of key get accidently posted there and it takes forever to get a mod. Meanwhile everyone gets the code when you could have just changed it. I do not think we should be able to delete our own threads though. Someone else might learn from them even if they are useless to us.

[edit]
Quote: "Someone else might learn from them even if they are useless to us."


Even though apparently almost nobody knows how to use the search feature of this forum. Even though it does suck. It only looks for exact strings in the thread title. It should at least break down the strings and search for all. If you search "game collision" it will not find anything when it should pick up game and collision. Bad example I know but you get the idea.

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Lynx
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Posted: 9th Mar 2005 11:48
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I don't think being able to delete it would be very good, or being able to edit someone elses posts.

Just remember.. some people are twits.

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Eric T
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Posted: 9th Mar 2005 11:55
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I have a better idea, to hell with self moderation! Instead we hire 7 mods who have no sense of rational thought. Then we let them run through Banning, locking, deleting and editing till they get tired and go to sleep. Then when they wake up, it'll start again.

Now that'd be awesome.

"We were somewhere around Barstow on the edge of the desert when the drugs began to take hold..."
- From Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas by Hunter S Thompson (1937-2005)
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Sol462
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Posted: 9th Mar 2005 11:59
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[joke]Isn't that how it is now?[/joke]
I mean some mods take part in a controversal thread, then another locks it.
And why is Lost in Thought quoting himself?

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Posted: 9th Mar 2005 12:02
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yea i guess on those 2 but i never said u should be able to edit osmeone elses source also

but yea why hasnt this been done on a lot of forums though such as phpbb along with apollo
i mean can soemone tell me one bad point about it
and im pretty sure it wouldnt be that hard to edit it to where u were the owner of your thread

quit hiting the computer; computers can only do what they are told so we must be telling them to do wrong things
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Posted: 9th Mar 2005 12:02
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The suggestion is for self moderation.
I quite like the idea. It really doesn't give moderators any more work to do, because in all forums where users have this control, Moderators have the control to over-ride it.

If suggestions are being made for the forum.
• Personal Messaging System. I rarely use them, just is something that feels wrong not to have it.
• Post Culling. This one I like, because it means you only end up with the last 7days of posting. Unless the thread is active, or marked against it.

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Posted: 9th Mar 2005 12:09
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i disagree with post culling because an old thread may have a lot in it or osurce code and then it just disappears into a 0byte sector

although the searh system needs to be fixed because the google search system sucks especially since the title(in google anyway) for every friggin thread is the same

quit hiting the computer; computers can only do what they are told so we must be telling them to do wrong things
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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 9th Mar 2005 12:54
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Quote: "And why is Lost in Thought quoting himself?"


Because crazy people do that

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bitJericho
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Posted: 9th Mar 2005 14:36 Edited at: 9th Mar 2005 14:36
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Quote: "I mean some mods take part in a controversal thread, then another locks it."


What's wrong with that? Mods are people too So one wants to post, and one doesn't like the flaming.. It's not like they should talk amongst themselves, it's a shoot first and ask questions later system, if they really wanted to unlock the thread, then they can.


Yarr join teh New and Improved LoGD!
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Dave J
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Posted: 9th Mar 2005 15:28
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Quote: "i mean can soemone tell me one bad point about it"


It would create complete and utter chaos, case closed.


"Computers are useless, they can only give you answers."
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Damokles
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Posted: 9th Mar 2005 16:03
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Well it sounds nice to be able to :
- Lock our own threads
- Request a mod to delete our thread (as icon in fron of the title)

By the way, did you try [href=TGC-Future mailing list]http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=49095&b=2[/href] ?

- Mind the gap -
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Posted: 9th Mar 2005 19:07
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Quote: "It would create complete and utter chaos, case closed."


I would like to see a more structured explaination as to how it would create complete and utter chaos.

People would only be able to Delete, or Lock thier own threads from other users. They would only be able to Unlock said thread if they had Locked it.

Moderators and Administrators would still hold the power to veto any actions that were deemed wrong. Unless I am missing some important peice of information that shows how such powers could be abused.

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Van B
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Posted: 9th Mar 2005 19:35
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Features like that would probably just give spammers more toys to play with here - there's too many users that could'nt be trusted to play fair.

I agree that a 'Report to Moderator' button would be nice - we don't check every single thread here, so finding ones that need action is really a case of the originator emailing a mod, a button that highlighted it for us would be cool. Not that we're editors here, we'd only lock a topic on request if it really needed locking - but it would be a very useful tool for stepping on spammers or folk posting porn etc.


Van-B


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Dave J
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Posted: 9th Mar 2005 19:52
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Quote: "I would like to see a more structured explaination as to how it would create complete and utter chaos."


The average user has no restraint, they'll lock and delete their own threads whenever they please. I can definitely see the possibility of many locked threads whenever someone disagrees with the original author (be it a valid point or not), additionally, giving mods the power to re-unlock those threads is hardly a viable solution. The only thing you'd be doing by giving more power to the user is creating more work for us mods.

Van B put it very nicely in the first sentence of his post:

Quote: "Features like that would probably just give spammers more toys to play with here - there's too many users that couldn't be trusted to play fair."



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Posted: 9th Mar 2005 20:24
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Quote: "The only thing you'd be doing by giving more power to the user is creating more work for us mods."


I get the feeling that this is more the excuse behind the reasoning.
If someone decided to abuse thier Self-Lock and Self-Delete buttons, then would they not just be screwing themselves over?

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BatVink
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Posted: 9th Mar 2005 20:31
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Editing thread title - yes. For WIP and Program Announcements it would be easy to highlight updates. Ever tried checking the Blue IDE thread to see if there are updates?

The rest, I'm not so sure.

BatVink
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the_winch
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Posted: 9th Mar 2005 21:05
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Quote: "I would like to see a more structured explaination as to how it would create complete and utter chaos."


It wouldn't obviously.

I still don't see why you need to lock and delete your threads. What good would it bring to the forum?

If you create a thread it is not yours it belongs to the forum and is at the mercy or what the forum population decides to do with it.
Do you really think it's a good idea to allow people to stop discussion or worse delete it completly just because they don't like the responses?

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Van B
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Posted: 9th Mar 2005 21:12
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Quote: "If someone decided to abuse thier Self-Lock and Self-Delete buttons, then would they not just be screwing themselves over?"


No they'd be screwing over anyone who posted in their thread. When you make a topic, your asking for peoples views - and it's common human curtesy to listen to an opinion you just asked for. Imagine we get a flame posted by the thread originator, then they lock it to have the last word - how often do you think we'll get posts about posts that have been locked?

Remember they have these features on LLRGT, but the only one that is used that often is the ability to change the topic title, I rarely see people locking their own threads or deleting their posts.


Van-B


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Posted: 9th Mar 2005 23:01
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Quote: "Remember they have these features on LLRGT, but the only one that is used that often is the ability to change the topic title, I rarely see people locking their own threads or deleting their posts."


Does that not really prove my point?
It is better to have something, yet never need to use it. Than not have it in the first place.

There are a number of times I have seen people post up to 5 posts with out realising it, when they could edit thier first post and delete the rest. As it stands they must ask a moderator to do it.

I can see Thread Locking, being quite useful for Information or Tutorial Threads. Not every thread on the forum is about getting feedback.

It would be annoying having to contact a moderator each time I wanted to update a tutorial thread, or a thread dedicated to say, 3D Programs. The last thing you want in a thread like that is a huge number of people posting up "What is such-and-such like?", followed by the thread becomming a large debate on what application is the best. Given the original thread was just to let people know what was available.

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Posted: 9th Mar 2005 23:17
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Personally, I like the idea, I don't see how it will be abused much.

Quote: "No they'd be screwing over anyone who posted in their thread. When you make a topic, your asking for peoples views - and it's common human curtesy to listen to an opinion you just asked for."


Then imagine this, people have posted in a genuine thread, and some wally comes along and starts spamming, isnt it smarter for the creator to lock the thread and make sure at least more than 50% of it is valid material?

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Van B
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Posted: 9th Mar 2005 23:39
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Yes, of course - but that's not the problem. Probably 99.9% of the people here would use it as intended, then that 0.1% will use it to flame forum users. So we'd be in a situation where there's a horrible post about you somewhere that you can't reply to (or anyone for that matter), and it'd sit waiting for a moderator to find it. It's easy to find hot-topics because they're at the top of the page, but a nasty comment in a locked thread sinking down into page 2 is not so easy to notice.


Van-B


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the_winch
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Posted: 9th Mar 2005 23:44
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Quote: "Then imagine this, people have posted in a genuine thread, and some wally comes along and starts spamming, isnt it smarter for the creator to lock the thread and make sure at least more than 50% of it is valid material?"


Wouldn't it be better for the discussion to continue and a mod delete the spam?

Even if a mod isn't arround why does it matter if 50% of it is spam? Better to have a thread half full of spam than an thread missing information because it was locked before some people got the chance to contribute.

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Kentaree
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Posted: 9th Mar 2005 23:45 Edited at: 9th Mar 2005 23:46
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@VanB: That's where the "report to moderator" button comes in

@Winch: True, but its up to the creator of the thread, really. If he feels he has enough comments, he can lock it, otherwise he could report it to a mod.

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Hawkeye
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Posted: 9th Mar 2005 23:46 Edited at: 9th Mar 2005 23:46
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I agree %100 with everything Van-B said (keeps me from having to type it all over in my words )


BECAUSE IT'S TEH TRUE!!!!1!11!!!one!

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Posted: 10th Mar 2005 08:58
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@Van-B i agree

ok how about this as a list of updates
report to mod button instead of going thru an email system
private messaging
moving threads from board to board
renaming your title on your own thread
locking your own thread (but must be verified by a mod)
being able to edit or delete attachments and code boxes


ummm anythjing i missed?

quit hiting the computer; computers can only do what they are told so we must be telling them to do wrong things
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Sol462
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Posted: 10th Mar 2005 09:16 Edited at: 10th Mar 2005 12:05
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NULL

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MikeS
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Posted: 10th Mar 2005 09:47
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Quote: "report to mod button instead of going thru an email system"

Agree

Quote: "private messaging"

Could be useful.

Quote: "moving threads from board to board"

Negative. Just ask a mod to move it.

Quote: "renaming your title on your own thread"

Maybe, but I'd prefer to just keep the title as is.

Quote: "locking your own thread (but must be verified by a mod)"

Negative. Notifying a mod to lock your thread is a bit redundant, rather than just having a mod do it by himself.

Quote: "being able to edit or delete attachments and code boxes"

Code boxes can be edited, don't know about the source boxes. I agree on editing attachments though(Might save apollo some space).

Overall, self-moderation would never work here(or at least not well), in my opionion. It's good to give users control, but not to much. Things would also become a bit messy and complicated, and every thread would be locked after a few days, only to see a clone of that thread two days later.



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Dave J
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Posted: 10th Mar 2005 09:59 Edited at: 10th Mar 2005 10:01
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We never (and I can't stress this enough) delete threads unless it was posted with the deliberate intention of including unacceptable content such as offensive images, etc. In 99% of cases we will lock the thread because it gives us a chance to explain why it was locked and it prevents other users from posting "What happened to thread blah?" when they realise it's missing. The only other reason we delete threads is if someone 'accidentally' posts two (or more) of the exact same thread, but that only ever happens a few times a year.

We encourage users to post the solution to their problem if they have a question and find the answer before someone else can help them, this allows other users who have the same problem to come across the thread and see how to fix their problem without having to repost the same question.

The only reasonable suggestions I can see in this thread are the "Report to Mod" button and the 'edit attachment' thing (which we can actually already do, I didn't realise users couldn't though).


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Posted: 10th Mar 2005 10:19
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ummm and the search thing fixed either that or have the title the title of hte thread instead of "the game creators-forum-view thread" because in google u get a million results and all the same title

quit hiting the computer; computers can only do what they are told so we must be telling them to do wrong things
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Dave J
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Posted: 10th Mar 2005 11:09
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Yeah, I'd have to agree with that one as well, it's also easier to tell which browser window is what thread if you switch between multiple ones.


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Posted: 10th Mar 2005 11:25
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or tabs in the case of firefox

quit hiting the computer; computers can only do what they are told so we must be telling them to do wrong things
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Posted: 10th Mar 2005 15:09
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Everything I have seen said so far fits why we should not have an Edit feature.

In fact there is more chance of the Personal Messaging System being abused, as you would have to post forward messages to Moderators.

Each time I see a new excuse to why not for Self-Moderatoration, the more I see the Moderators against it because they believe it will give them more work.

If just one of the moderators could admit this directly then progress might be able to be achieved.

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Jimmy
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Posted: 10th Mar 2005 15:15
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Required: What the crap do you know? You've only been here a couple weeks. Maybe stick around a bit and get to know how the forum works, then post your opinion. Noob.


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Dave J
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Posted: 10th Mar 2005 16:09
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Quote: "Each time I see a new excuse to why not for Self-Moderatoration, the more I see the Moderators against it because they believe it will give them more work.

If just one of the moderators could admit this directly then progress might be able to be achieved."


Admit what? That we think it'll create more work for us? That's what we've been saying!


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IanM
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Posted: 10th Mar 2005 20:59
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There are some good ideas, and some not so good here. I'll just pick up a few of the most memorable ones ...


Locking threads:

Once someone else posts into your thread with code or an opinion, they have as much 'ownership' of that thread as the original poster. In addition, just because the OP has finished with the thread, doesn't mean that everyone else has.


Deleting threads:

Even worse!


Private messaging:

Maybe if the 'projects area' thing happens, then it would be worth adding, but until then, I don't see a reason for TGC's server to handle what is effectively just an email system.


Report to mod:

Yes, but rather than an email-based system, something like the 'post approval list' page would be better.


Moving threads:

I don't think that this is a good idea - it gets confusing enough when us mods move them. It could also be abused by spammers moving their posts around and stopping us from deleting/locking them.


Renaming threads:

Don't know ... shouldn't we expect people to name their threads correctly in the first place? Again, it could be abused by spammers playing 'hide the post'.

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Ian T
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Posted: 11th Mar 2005 03:11
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If you want to lock and delete your own threads, make your own forum. End of story.

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Posted: 11th Mar 2005 08:07
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dang well it was worth a shot
and be sure to fix that search thing though

also being able to edit ANY post in a thread and edit and delete attachments and source boxes

quit hiting the computer; computers can only do what they are told so we must be telling them to do wrong things
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Damokles
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Posted: 11th Mar 2005 15:00
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Here are my suggestions :

Report to mod : Apparently it would make the work of the mods easier. (Most seem to agree)

Renaming threads : It should exist, but in this way : We write the new title, then the mods can see both titles and have a button to approve it.

- Mind the gap -
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Lukas W
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Posted: 11th Mar 2005 15:17
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I got a suggestions for improving apollo myself:

Sort Threads by Read/Unread, Date (like it is now), user/author, locked/unlocked.. that would clean up the forum for most users..

and if we sort by read/unread it will start with the blue posts (unread) and will sort them by date.

get the idea? i think this will be very usefull

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Dave J
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Posted: 11th Mar 2005 15:48
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Quote: "also being able to edit ANY post in a thread"


What do you mean edit 'any' post in a thread? If you mean edit any of your own posts, you can already do that. But if you mean edit any of other peoples posts as well, then that's the dumbest idea I've ever heard.


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Jeku
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Posted: 11th Mar 2005 16:58
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I think the renaming of topics is really only necessary for the W.I.P. and Announcements boards. For example if I release Game v.0.5 and put that in the title, then make modifications and update it to 0.6, I want the thread title to reflect it (rather than create a whole new thread).

That is the only case I can see for this feature. Spelling mistakes and other typing mishaps give forums the "community" feel, I think


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Three Score
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Joined: 18th Jun 2004
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Posted: 12th Mar 2005 12:08
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umm i cant edit any post except for my most recent post in a thread

quit hiting the computer; computers can only do what they are told so we must be telling them to do wrong things
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Dave J
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Posted: 12th Mar 2005 12:18
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Well you'd be the only one, I believe.


"Computers are useless, they can only give you answers."
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SageTech
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Joined: 3rd Dec 2004
Location: Orlando, Florida
Posted: 12th Mar 2005 13:16 Edited at: 12th Mar 2005 13:19
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Quote: " have a better idea, to hell with self moderation! Instead we hire 7 mods who have no sense of rational thought. Then we let them run through Banning, locking, deleting and editing till they get tired and go to sleep. Then when they wake up, it'll start again. "


[joke] i fit the catagory!! [/joke]

hmmm, perhaps the joke tag isnt neccesary...

Sage Tech Manager
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