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Geek Culture / [DEBATE]Greenday, Do you believe they are good enough to be ranked in the top ten?

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code spinneker
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Posted: 16th Mar 2005 09:41
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Alright from one of my other posts titled "Most emotionally correct music in a vid game" I nade the mistake of voicing my opinion on Greenday and Got some Flack and some support. To all of you whon were using the old thread as an argument ground for that, Leave it and come argue her so people can vote.
My View-
Greenday is awesome and is definetly worth the money to listen to/see in concert ETC and their songs are definetly good.
Go ahead World now you have your oppurtunity to DISS or ENCOURAGE the Band that names themselves GREENDAY.
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Mattman
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Posted: 16th Mar 2005 09:53
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They were good before they started borrowing makeup from Good Charlotte's singer. I think that's self explanitory.

Have you ever met a girl that you tried to date, But instead of make love she wanted you to wait
Let me tell ya a story of my situation, I was talkin’ to this girl from the u.s. nation
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Matt Rock
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Posted: 16th Mar 2005 09:57
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I have to say, first and foremost, that once upon a time when Greenday released the album "Dookie" I really thought they were good... but never have they been my favourite. Nowadays, a lot of green day fans are claiming that they were the first band to write an album about President Shrub, and let me be the first to inform you that this is NOT true. I'm sure many bands did it before greenday, but the album that REALLY sticks out in my head is by the band whom I consider to be the greatest band in modern music and without question the most innovative pack of musicians around right now, Radiohead. They did an album a few years ago titled "Hail to the Thief," by far a better album and by far more creative. I can't diss Greenday... in terms of modern pop groups bands they're pretty much the only one I can tolerate... but I wouldn't buy their new cd, nor will I be attending their concert when they play here in Binghamton NY soon. But hey, if it helps your arguement, they're the first band to sell out an arena in Binghamton New York since Rusted Root played here in 1999. Binghamton is by no means a small city, so hey, that's kinda cool, isn't it?

-Matt Rock

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Eric T
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Posted: 16th Mar 2005 12:35
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Greenday was good for Dookie, then they just sucked. Top ten, never.

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BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 16th Mar 2005 13:35
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All (well, most) of the modern bands make me gag. That American Idiot album does sound amusing though.

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Van B
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Posted: 16th Mar 2005 16:18
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Do Greenday even deserve this post?
I watched an interview with Billy-Joe a couple of years ago, and he was dissing new bands, saying he does'nt get it and he does'nt want to get it - yet he's wearing that goth makeup that all the cool kids wear now. I always like the tongue in cheek anti-socialism, like knocking phones off their receivers or throwing their gerkin's about in McD's - you always got a laugh in a GD video, now it's black cardigans and misery all round.

They're certainly not top-10 material, I like them, and the new album is ok, but let's not confuse them with people like Metallica.


Van-B


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Jeku
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Posted: 16th Mar 2005 16:33
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... or Beck. Beck has more talent in his left toe than Billy Joe could ever dream of.

I remember when Green Day came out with Dookie, and they were cool for like 5 minutes. Now they're one of those bands that most people I know (and myself included) wish would just go away.


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Posted: 16th Mar 2005 16:39
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Music is like a any artwork. Some people like it, some people don't.

If you want to know if they are worthy of being thier place in the chart, then view the Official UK Chart on bbc.co.uk/radio1.

Do I personally feel many pop-bands derserve to be in the top 10?
Well No, I do not. If you look though, very few FAD bands every make it in the Album Chart as well. So check both. I believe Greenday has/is in both.

This would suggest, for the UK Greenday is worthy of it's place by the majority of people.

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Eric T
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Posted: 16th Mar 2005 16:44
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Quote: "Do Greenday even deserve this post?"


No.

I guess this'll eventually turn into a "whats your top ten then" kinda thing... so i'll beat the crowd:

10. Nevermore (Some heavy metal at its greatest. Jeff Loomis's Guitar playing just kicks some royal ass).

9. John Lennon ("The wrong 2 beatles died first" - Carlin)

8. Rolling Stones (Gotta love them, and they still kick ass even at there old age.)

7. Pearl Jam (Very good band live, and their early albums were great (by early I mean "Ten" which is probably my most listened to and favorite album of my collection.)

6. Miles Davis (Whats a list without some nice jazz? Miles Davis kicked ass on the horn, and I love it.)

5. Black Sabbath (Nuf said)

4. Phish (Not too much recorded, but the atmosphere live was awesome. I'm only sad my memory is vague of that night... obvious reasons why.)

3. Stevie Ray Vaughn (Kick ass texas blues at its best. You ain't heard guitar till ya heard Texas Blues)

2. The Grateful Dead (When I saw them the first time, I was to little to understand what the hell was going on... and I don't remember being there, Jerry died later and I never got to see him in a time i would actually remember it. About a year ago, "The Dead" came around to SLC and I went to see them. I was absoluetly amazed Mickey Harts drum playing. He had atleast one of every type of drum on stage, and for 14 minutes he went on a Drum Solo which just blew me away. If you ever get a chance to see The Dead, DO!).

1. Frank Zappa (Most people right now are having the reaction of "Who the hell is Frank Zappa", and if you are, please, I urge you, To find some of his stuff and listen to it. He was so versatile, so talented, so damn funny at times. An advocate for free speech through his life, and his music reflects it.)

But yeah, now I wanna see other peoples lists too, just to see how weird I am.

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Jeku
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Posted: 16th Mar 2005 17:04 Edited at: 16th Mar 2005 17:04
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Required - I wouldn't go by the top-10 charts to see how "good" a band is. Britney Spears and Christina Aguilera sell millions of albums, but one could argue whether they are talented in their own right.

My top bands:

1.) Beck - Changes his style with every album... seen him live 4 times...

2.) Air - Probably the best thing to come out of France since... forever. You've probably never heard of them, but I recommend you pick up a copy of Moon Safari--- it'll blow your mind...

3.) Daft Punk - Discovery, their second album, is one of the most amazing albums in the entire world. That is, if you're into their kind of music.

4.) Bjork - Her newer stuff is a little too "samey" for me, but her earlier albums are just amazing. That girl can sing for like 12 hours straight and never miss a note

5.) Bran Van 3000 - A group of artists from Montreal. If you've never heard of them, then you're missing out!

6.) The Beatles - I have many of their albums on vinyl, and their melodies are timeless.

7.) Pizzicato Five - A Japanese funky-dance-party-jazz band--- I can't place their genre, but they still rock...

8.) Frank Sinatra - The king of the lounge.

9.) Cibo Matto - Another Japanese band... some of their stuff is pretty cool.

10.) Miscellaneous---- I have a fondness for bands in pretty much every genre except country...


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Posted: 16th Mar 2005 17:51
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The question was not if they were good. Just if they are worthy of the Top 10.

As mentioned above. Music is subjective. I have a preference to Industrial, and Classical.

Does it mean I have bad taste in music? Only to the person who does not agree with me. If I like it, that is all that really matters.

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Eric T
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Posted: 16th Mar 2005 18:04
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But Raven, when I think of Top 10, I'm thinking skill. I don't care how much money they make and how many records they sell. Top 10 bands shoul d be, well skillful. And all i see from the bands in the Top 10 list these days are either:

A - The same 2 chords over and over with a half assed guitar solo between the second and 3rd verse

B - A repeative rap beat, over and over, with some stupid lyrics such as "Shake dat ass, and watch yourself, shake dat ass, and show me what ya workin wit".

or of course
C - A band based around a social cliche, selling alot because its the cliche thats in style right now.

Right now it seems to be half gothy depressed kids (Ex: Boulevard of Broken Dreams). Before this, everyone was into the Pop and boy band BS. God damn young teenage girls always have their way. The top 10 selling list isn't whats good, its what teenage girls are buying.

And speaking of Top 10 selling, when the hell are they gonna have a official "Top Ten downloaded" list. I'd bet you'd get better results off of that.

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Posted: 16th Mar 2005 18:31
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Quote: "But Raven, when I think of Top 10, I'm thinking skill."


This is the third time I have been called that. Stop it! I clearly have a handle of my own. Does this community just enjoy giving names to people that do not match thier handles?

I do not see Top 10 having anything to do with skill.
Everyone has different tastes. What you feel is skillful music, I may think is nothing but pot-banging.

Quote: "And speaking of Top 10 selling, when the hell are they gonna have a official "Top Ten downloaded" list. I'd bet you'd get better results off of that."


Radio1 already has that.

I think this whole topic is quite stupid.

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Van B
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Posted: 16th Mar 2005 18:57
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The worst thing about the charts is the catchy tunes - the bands make my skin crawl but a lot of the melodies are great. For instance, take the Girls Aloud voices away from that 'Sound of the underground' song and your left with a weird sorta surf rock track. For me, the annoying thing is how disposable these songs are, even to the people performing them. Popular music has no excuse to be like this, not when you consider the Chemical Brothers and the Prodigy - I don't mind at all when they make it into the charts.

I listen to Pearl Jam and KoRn mostly - Pearl Jam have done so many tracks that we can forgive them for that middle period of awkward albums, like Vitalogy for instance. Ten is my all time fave album, and Rearviewmirror from Versus is my fave song - then I'd put the last 2 PJ albums in front of Binaural, Vitalogy, No Code, all them. I got the live album and DVD from Madisen sq garden, and Lost Dogs - and they're on great form.

I've taken to listening to ChroniX radio on WinAmp quite a bit recently though, it does lean more on the Pantera side of things, which is no bad thing.


Van-B


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Wiggett
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Posted: 16th Mar 2005 19:47
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k-rist guys greenday totally suck, they used to be good much like offspring were, then all of a sudden like soem kind of divine intervention they just started to produce sheepy punk music that got all the teeny boppers into them, now they produce mediocre works and claim they're political and stuff, i swear if there wasnt a band called linkin park these guys would be on the bottom of my list.

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Neofish
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Posted: 16th Mar 2005 20:44
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hear hear

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Matt Rock
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Posted: 16th Mar 2005 20:46
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Jeku, Cibo Matto rocks! I would assume you live in the New York area if you've heard of them... most people outside of this 500 mile radius have no clue who Cibo Matto is! Awesome!

Anyway, I was a musician long before I started making video games, so making a top 10 is too hard. How about I create my dream band instead? Some of these people are dead, but who cares:

Songwriters - Elvis Costello (lyrics)
Jonny Greenwood (ala Radiohead) (music)
Vocalists - David Bowie and Thom Yorke duet
Guitarists - Jimmy Page (from Led Zeppelin)
George Harrison (rhythm guitar naturally)
Bass - Victor Wooten (from Bela Fleck & the Flecktones)
Drums - John Bonham, and Keith Moon when Bonham is too drunk
to play, and me when the two of them are throwing
TV's out of hotel windows

and please keep this in mind:

IF "your opinions" <> "my opinions"
gosub _I_really_dont_care
else
end
endif
_Ireallydontcare:
REMSTART
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. Everytime I make comments about music I end up arguing with someone, lol. btw, I wrote this in semi-code because this topic doesn't seem to have anything to do with DB whatsoever, so I figured I'd make a link, hehe
REMEND

-Matt Rock

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Van B
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Posted: 16th Mar 2005 21:30
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So if Green Day and Linkin Park are bottom of Wiggets list, where does that leave Beyonce Knowles and Enrique Englasias?

No matter how much your irritated by GD, you gotta admit that it's 100 times better than the usual tripe that appears in the charts.


Van-B


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Benjamin
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Posted: 16th Mar 2005 21:35
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Quote: "you gotta admit that it's 100 times better than the usual tripe that appears in the charts."

Agreed.


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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 16th Mar 2005 21:57
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Quote: "i swear if there wasnt a band called linkin park these guys would be on the bottom of my list."


Go home you hater.

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Neofish
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Posted: 16th Mar 2005 22:17
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Quote: "No matter how much your irritated by GD, you gotta admit that it's 100 times better than the usual tripe that appears in the charts."

Hear hear again

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empty
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Posted: 16th Mar 2005 22:49
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I'm currently a bit out of the loop of today's music (I think I should tune in again soon), so I'm not sure what's in the charts. Is the "Boulevard" song the one with the line "I walk alone, I walk alone"? I think it's a nice little song, esp. the chord phrase at the end.
I think you can't blame a band for going more commercial at one point of their career. Everyone wants that fame... and that money... and the record company wants that too. I mean even prog giants like Yes ("Owner of a lonely heart") or the guys that formed the band "Asia" went that way in the 80s. As long as they return one day...



Quote: "This is the third time I have been called that. Stop it! I clearly have a handle of my own. Does this community just enjoy giving names to people that do not match thier handles?"

Hmmm what about TUFKAR (the user formerly known as Raven)?


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Wiggett
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Posted: 16th Mar 2005 22:54
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hey im nto a fan of RnB but if she teaches girlfriends to shake their booty's while sayin Uh-oh repeatedly yeah im gonna put her somewhat above greenday who teach her how to be stereotypical punk wannabees.

Quote: "Go home you hater
"


well sooooory but any band who lyrics consist of stuff like "I'm not gonan grow up to be a lawyer like you dad!" sung in a high pitch wussy boy voice owned by some try-hard wanna be punks aint gonna get my vote, i can take beyonce, i can take green day, i can even take SUM 41!.... well at a pinch, but one thing i cannot take, IS DARREN TRUCKING HINCH!!! uh i mean linkin park.

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Posted: 17th Mar 2005 00:03
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Quote: "Hmmm what about TUFKAR (the user formerly known as Raven)?"


How about you actually ask me who I am rather than assuming things!
I could quite as easily use the DarkBasic.com FTP, and put the website of that up in my profile.

That does NOT mean that I am any more Richard Davey, than I am Raven. One thing Robert was right about, there are some real jerks here!

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Oraculaca
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Posted: 17th Mar 2005 00:13
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Quote: "One thing Robert was right about, there are some real jerks here!"


Did you both go to the same school then?

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=10920&b=1
one quote of many from Raven , 28/5/03
Quote: "within the next few month it will become common knowlage"


http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=50325&b=2

one quote from 2 on google by Required , 15/3/05 18:24
Quote: "I can have all the technical knowlage in the world."


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Van B
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Posted: 17th Mar 2005 00:19
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That can't be Raven, look at how small his posts are!


Van-B


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Posted: 17th Mar 2005 01:04
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Quote: "Did you both go to the same school then?"


Yes. I do not see why that has anything to do with this consistant number of posts telling me that obviously I do now know who I am!

I do not understand why moderators do not ban jerks like you.

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empty
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Posted: 17th Mar 2005 01:13
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Quote: "How about you actually ask me who I am rather than assuming things!"

Cool, since you suggest it. Who are you?


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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 17th Mar 2005 02:17
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Quote: "I'm not gonan grow up to be a lawyer like you dad!"


Where the hell did you get those lyrecs? =/

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Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 17th Mar 2005 02:20
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green day are the biggest pile of overated wnk ever, along with iron maiden and busted/mcfly. there.

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Benjamin
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Posted: 17th Mar 2005 02:47
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I don't like Iron Maiden either, but theres no way they are crap.


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Ian T
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Posted: 17th Mar 2005 03:02
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There's nothing wrong with success. There is something wrong with succeeding in corporate America and still basing your music off of singing about how evil the rich and powerful are. Greenday certainly does not make the worst music I've ever heard on the radio, but they're certainly the most hypocritical fools I have.

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Newbie Brogo
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Posted: 17th Mar 2005 03:03 Edited at: 17th Mar 2005 03:03
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@Eric T: Amen. I like your list

You forgot Tom Jones though.

Led Zeppelin is good.


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Oraculaca
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Posted: 17th Mar 2005 03:19 Edited at: 17th Mar 2005 03:20
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Meant to say earlier I liked Greenday when Dookie was out, the new album is quite good though. Like Van-B said, the charts are full of manufactured cheesy pop with the odd gem making it in now and then. Id rather it was the likes of Greenday or The Killers or Bloc Party than Girls Aloud and co. Hell id rather be subjected to McFly (and thats saying something) at least they picl up instruments.


@Required/Raven/Robert:
Quote: " Yes. I do not see why that has anything to do with this consistant number of posts telling me that obviously I do now know who I am! "

My point was that you and your alter ego BOTH spell knowledge wrong.

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Jeku
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... and while we're on the topic of crappy bands, let's add some Limp Bizkit and put U2 on the bottom of the pile. U2 is one of those "bands" where every song sounds the same. Booooring.

Quote: "Jeku, Cibo Matto rocks! I would assume you live in the New York area if you've heard of them... most people outside of this 500 mile radius have no clue who Cibo Matto is! Awesome!"


I went through a phase where I was listening to Japanese singers, and after I heard Sugar Water by Cibo Matto I picked up a few of their albums They have some really great stuff...


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Fallout
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Posted: 17th Mar 2005 05:04
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Greenday are just another in a long line of boring new metal/new punk bands that really cannot play their instruments and rely on 95% chord driven music which all sounds exactly the same. If you are a half decent composer and have a few months experience playing the guitar, you could pretty much out-compose 90% of the new metal/punk that is out there today. I firmly believe it. Incredibly simple music. Even more so than garage, and that is saying a hell of a lot.

The only difference with Greenday is, at least their music is catchy. It's tired, unoriginal, very simplistic and thoroughly predictable, but it's catchy and you can enjoy it. Props for that.

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Eric T
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Posted: 17th Mar 2005 06:11
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Offtopic:

You use RavenStudio, you talk like raven, you have the same specs as raven and IIRC the same ISP as raven (IRC whois) so as far as I can tell, you are Raven. You even share the Doom 3 liking.

OnTopic:

I have nothing to say.

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Neofish
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Posted: 17th Mar 2005 06:15
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Why does it matter if he's Raven or not. Leave him alone.

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Posted: 17th Mar 2005 06:23
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Quote: "and put U2 on the bottom of the pile. U2 is one of those "bands" where every song sounds the same. Booooring."

I'm not a U2 fan at all, but I can't say that "Beautiful Day" sounds like "Mysterious Ways" (Achtung Baby is about the only U2 album I really like). I'd say that statement is valid for certain phases of the band. I mean "Beautiful Day" and "Vertigo" for example are quite similar in structure and style.


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Jeku
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Posted: 17th Mar 2005 06:32
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Maybe analytically their songs are different, but I remember hearing the radio DJs saying they are going to play a brand new song from U2, and they were just raving and hollering and basically kissing ass :p Finally they played the song and to me, just an average listener, it didn't stand out from the last time I heard one of their new songs.

I think I'll call it Nickelback Syndrome'


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empty
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Posted: 17th Mar 2005 06:35 Edited at: 17th Mar 2005 06:36
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Quote: "and they were just raving and hollering and basically kissing ass"

Well, they're regarded as one of the biggest rock bands these days. I'm not sure how they managed that either.

Edit:
(Although I have to admit, Bono Vox is an extra ordinary good singer)


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Wiggett
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Posted: 17th Mar 2005 06:43
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Quote: "Where the hell did you get those lyrecs? =/"


thats pretty much the jist of all of their songs, whiney teens singing about how they don't wanna grow up to be like their parents.

uh, was required referring to me with the jerks thing? cause if so, how'd he know my name? unless he is raven from back in the day i was uberwiggett robx

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Dazzag
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Posted: 17th Mar 2005 06:50
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Ach. Take back that U2 slating! Then again, seems to be something in over-30s DNA that make us like U2... Just because we also legally could drink alcohol during their best moments has nothing to do with it. Apparently....

Oh, and I have no opinion to Greenday. Whatever. Radiohead on the other hand... awesome. Although you need anti-depressants to listen. And what is it with new bands (eg Keane) sounding *exactly* like Radiohead did like half a decade or more ago. Sheesh.

And goth bands? Sisters of mercy. Full stop.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
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empty
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Posted: 17th Mar 2005 06:54 Edited at: 17th Mar 2005 06:54
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"Hey now, hey now now, sing this corrosion to me"
I remember a festival in the early nineties where SoM were headliners. I've never seen more stage fog in my life (and actually saw nothing but stage fog).


Play Nice! Play Basic! Version 1.06
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Jeku
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Posted: 17th Mar 2005 07:05
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Agreed, Radiohead is great. But even their stuff is starting to sound all the same to me. Perhaps I'm having hearing loss?? :p

But I absolutely love Radiohead's two albums The Bends and OK Computer...


--[GameBasic - Coming Soon]-- ^^^ banner generously designed by TheBigBabou
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Oraculaca
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Posted: 17th Mar 2005 07:10 Edited at: 17th Mar 2005 07:11
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Most people say the bends but I loved Pablo Honey, still listen to it loads
not so keen on the newer stuff though

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Mattman
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Posted: 17th Mar 2005 07:47
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Music is my life. Yeah it's way above computers, it's actually above breathing and tasty beverages. So here is my list of my top 10 favorite bands

1. The Stills

2. The Sound

3. Devo

4. Joy Division

5. Bis

6. The Cure

7. New order

8. Pixies / Frank Black

9. The Beatles

10. XTC

Runners up (no particular order)
Sugarplastic, Guster, Weezer, Gang of Four, Cathrine Wheel, Boo Radleys, Buzzcocks, Led Zepplin, The Darkness, the list goes on and on....

Have you ever met a girl that you tried to date, But instead of make love she wanted you to wait
Let me tell ya a story of my situation, I was talkin’ to this girl from the u.s. nation
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kenmo
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Posted: 17th Mar 2005 08:05 Edited at: 27th Jun 2012 06:18
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...
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empty
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Posted: 17th Mar 2005 08:18
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Quote: "8. Pixies / Frank Black"

You don't find these in such lists often.
Pixies are/were simply brilliant. Frank Black solo, well the first album was great, "Teenager of the year" was still pretty cool, "Cult of Ray" ok-ish and the rest, well...


Play Nice! Play Basic! Version 1.06
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Mattman
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Posted: 17th Mar 2005 09:30
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cool empty, did you see them recently? My dad saw them multible times in their hey-day, I wanna go see them, I've heard a second tour is on the way with (rumored) Weezer

Have you ever met a girl that you tried to date, But instead of make love she wanted you to wait
Let me tell ya a story of my situation, I was talkin’ to this girl from the u.s. nation
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