Sorry your browser is not supported!

You are using an outdated browser that does not support modern web technologies, in order to use this site please update to a new browser.

Browsers supported include Chrome, FireFox, Safari, Opera, Internet Explorer 10+ or Microsoft Edge.

Geek Culture / EA: What's your opinion

Author
Message
Matt Rock
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Mar 2005
Location: Binghamton NY USA
Posted: 21st Mar 2005 20:39
EDIT: I have a tendancy to start arguements. I'm sorry for that, to everyone, especially the mods who actually have to read through my long tangents. For the sake everyone getting sick of hearing me, I'll try to keep this first post short, but I can't promise future one's won't be long.

I know I've caused a lot of headaches by ranting and raving about politics and religion, but please, try to keep this thread on-topic. I don't mean this to be an arguement, but a debate, if there even is a debate to be had... I want to know what other people think about this subject.

***

Not long ago, Maxis was a development studio, independent but loyal to Electronic Arts. Now, there is no Maxis... the entire team was bought by Electronic Arts. EA, it seems, is bent on taking over the industry. They've been buying out development studios, both indie and mainstream. They attempted to purchase Activision, and now they're closing in on Ubisoft. They currently own all liscensing for the NFL, and tried to purchase the MLB before Take2 stepped in and made a deal that excluded EA and EA only. They purchased Studio 33, the Doom Franchise, Criterion, Dice, Westwood, the American McGee franchise, Black Box, Digital Illusions, and ESPN, just to name a few. And a few hours ago, I heard a rumour that EA is planning on purchasing independent titles from would-be developers for mere pennies in the hopes of creating a new department of their corporation that would be the gaming industry's response to "Fox Searchlight." Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't that be us?

I've been making a big deal about EA for a long time, and pretty much all throughout my tenure posting on these forums (not a long time, but I definitely post way too much). No one ever comments on it, probably because I say it in passing and it's never a good time to bring it up. Well, I'm bringing it up here and now:
What do you guys think about this? If EA came to you and offered you a bunch of money, but the tradeoff was that you couldn't have anything to do with your title anymore, just a lump sum and that would be that... what would you do? Would you take the money and run, or does your project mean too much to you? And, in general, what do you think about EA's recent moves toward industry domination?

- Matt Rock

"Hell is an Irish Pub where it's St. Patrick's Day all of the time." ~ Christopher, *The Soprano's*
Van B
Moderator
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Oct 2002
Location: Sunnyvale
Posted: 21st Mar 2005 20:55
EA certainly is bending the videogame market to fit in it's wallet, and this isn't the first thread to have a pop at them (if indeed it turns out that way). Frankly though I don't see a pop at EA as argumentative or political, there can't be that many gamers out there that haven't been peeved at EA's tactics recently.

If I ever came up with a game design that EA would pay to squash then I'd probably take the money - then change the design enough to keep developing it. The sad thing is that DBPro is nigh-on ideal for prototyping pro game ideas, there's no language that allows the same development speed. I suppose there's always the chance that someone will sell their homegrown game design and make some nice money, and a working game prototype is fairly rare in a prospective designers portfolio.

In saying all that though, I do really want Battlefield for XBox and a Burnout4 would be most appreciated as well...


Van-B


It's c**p being the only coder in the village.
Matt Rock
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Mar 2005
Location: Binghamton NY USA
Posted: 21st Mar 2005 21:07
Everyone keeps saying that DBPro is slow, but I've had the opposite experience. For us, the game we're making runs silky smooth, and while there's some texturing issues we've had to overcome, for the most part production has been going pretty well.

Would I sell said game to EA? No way. It's my baby... I've put too much into it to see EA take it and change the parts they dislike. Even if EA took us on for distribution, I don't want to end up like Dice or Westwood or Maxis and end up selling the studio outright. That's why, when we became a company, we decided on a steadfast rule... the company is a partnership and will never corporize. Not because I think corporations are evil or anything, but because EA is eating up these companies by buying shares in them, and if we don't give them that opportunity, they can't do that to us. Call it wishful thinking if you'd like, my predictions of the not-so-distant future, but I think something is only impossible if you let it become that way. There was my words-of-wisdom for the day

- Matt Rock

"Hell is an Irish Pub where it's St. Patrick's Day all of the time." ~ Christopher, *The Soprano's*
Jess T
Retired Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th Sep 2003
Location: Over There... Kablam!
Posted: 21st Mar 2005 21:35
Maxis?
I didn't know Will Wright sold out to EA?
Or maybe I'm talking out of my arse again?


Team EOD :: Programmer/All-Round Nice Guy
Aust. Convention!
David T
Retired Moderator
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Aug 2002
Location: England
Posted: 21st Mar 2005 21:38
Yeah, Maxis is is part of EA.

Get 15 new commands, all the date / time commands left out of DBPro for free!
DOWNLOAD PLUGINS HERE: http://www.davidtattersall.me.uk/ and select "DarkBasic"
Jess T
Retired Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th Sep 2003
Location: Over There... Kablam!
Posted: 21st Mar 2005 21:42
Heh.
I feel sorry for Will now.
Here I was thinking he's a great developer, and such a unique mind, but all the while he's a sell-out!

lol, I'm just kidding, I couldn't care less if he sold out to EA or to the kid selling Lemonade for 35c a glass.

!


Team EOD :: Programmer/All-Round Nice Guy
Aust. Convention!
Required
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 25th Feb 2005
Location: Server Down
Posted: 21st Mar 2005 22:16
I do not understand why people are constantly making comments about Electronic Arts. I keep being told, "People are idiots who comment on things they just don't understand.".

As I see a topic like this, then I remember those words. It is because they are perfectly true to these situations.

Now as I have come to understand the situation.
Maxis and Westwood Studios, have for over 5 maybe 10 years been subsiduary companies of Electronic Arts.

They are allowed a state of autonomy as they have, because they have proven themselves building up many locations on thier own with funds provided by Electronic Arts.

There are many companies that are thankful that EA has stepped in to purchase them. The list provided in the original post appears incorrect, but yes EA has been making a huge number of acquisitions as of late.

Robert has told me, that in order to fully understand what EA is doing then I have to look at Eidos' current financial situation.
I did not understand what was ment until I looked.

Then I checked EA's financial situtation.
Finally I checked Vivendi/Sierras'.

I think once you understand the publishers motivation of money, and what things like Piracy, and over-saturation is causing. There is only one solution. Dismisal of those companies who can not compete.

Electronic Arts looks like it is trying to prevent such an action by purchasing to a point where it is strong enough to survive anything.

empty
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: 3 boats down from the candy
Posted: 22nd Mar 2005 00:21
Erm, that method is not brand new nor is it unique to EA or that particular industry. That's how capitalism works and since today's information and transport infrastructures support global merges or sell outs it seems to have become a trend. And the stock market seems to like it so the managers do it. Will it do any good to the company in the long run? Not necessarily. Will it do any good to the customer? No (say goodbye to diversity).
Vivendi is a media company, while EA is a "only" video game company. So what will happen sooner or later? Another big media company will buy EA. It's just a matter of time.


Quote: "Robert has told me,"

LOL, the same (mostly unique) spelling mistakes, the same grammar mistakes, the same style. No, of course you are not Robert. Sure.


Play Nice! Play Basic! Version 1.06
Ian T
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 12th Sep 2002
Location: Around
Posted: 22nd Mar 2005 00:32
The way I see it, EA can't win while Microsoft's in the playing field. If they get too powerful, Microsoft has a few tricks up their sleeve that could pretty much destroy EA's grip on the PC games market.

Nevertheless I would never sell my game in its entirety, because if it wasn't successful, they would scrap my rights to do anything with it without a blink.

It is a perilous occupation for TGC to post anything by way of a promise, as the words get etched in indestructable marble for all time.
-Lee Bamber
Neofish
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 7th Apr 2004
Location: A swimming pool of coke
Posted: 22nd Mar 2005 00:53
EA rule! /sarcasm

Quote: "LOL, the same (mostly unique) spelling mistakes, the same grammar mistakes, the same style. No, of course you are not Robert. Sure."

FFS Leave him alone. It's not like it's a crime to be someone and deny it (in this case), so get over it and grow mature.

:: AphoticVM oGL Plugin : 0.001% Complete (v0.0.0.1) ::
Benjamin
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Nov 2002
Location: France
Posted: 22nd Mar 2005 01:10
Yeah, who CARES if its Raven or not. I sure don't.


"Lets migrate like bricks" - Me
Peter H
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th Feb 2004
Location: Witness Protection Program
Posted: 22nd Mar 2005 01:14 Edited at: 22nd Mar 2005 01:15
Quote: "If EA came to you and offered you a bunch of money, but the tradeoff was that you couldn't have anything to do with your title anymore, just a lump sum and that would be that... what would you do? Would you take the money and run, or does your project mean too much to you? "

no, i would say "Go and create something for yourself you brainless w00bers" (w00ber/woober is a flynnism)

really i'm very un-impressed with EA...all of their games that i've seen have been VERY un creative and some of them low-quality. That on top of their monopilizing (spelling sucks i know) has made me pretty much not like them

If they completely stopped making games i wouldn't be any less happy...in fact i would be happier...none of my favourite games are made by EA.

--Peter

"We make the worst games in the universe."

Ian T
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 12th Sep 2002
Location: Around
Posted: 22nd Mar 2005 01:41
Quote: " It's not like it's a crime to be someone and deny it"


Actually it breaks the AUP ...

It is a perilous occupation for TGC to post anything by way of a promise, as the words get etched in indestructable marble for all time.
-Lee Bamber
Benjamin
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Nov 2002
Location: France
Posted: 22nd Mar 2005 01:44
Where does it exactly say that in the AUP?


"Lets migrate like bricks" - Me
Neofish
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 7th Apr 2004
Location: A swimming pool of coke
Posted: 22nd Mar 2005 01:46 Edited at: 22nd Mar 2005 01:47
He's not pretending to be Raven while not being him...in fact the opposite. You lot are implicating him as Raven, while he claims that Raven is merely his friend...it is incredabily petty that people, including mods (mouse ) can't live with it, Raven or not. Hell I don't like him but I don't start arguments over it!

EDIT: It says don't inpersonate people, not what Required is doing..

:: AphoticVM oGL Plugin : 0.001% Complete (v0.0.0.1) ::
Benjamin
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Nov 2002
Location: France
Posted: 22nd Mar 2005 01:48 Edited at: 22nd Mar 2005 01:49
You prove a good point. Off with his head!

Quote: "EDIT: It says don't inpersonate people, not what Required is doing.."

Looks like someone *cough*mouse*cough* needs to read the AUP properly


"Lets migrate like bricks" - Me
Neofish
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 7th Apr 2004
Location: A swimming pool of coke
Posted: 22nd Mar 2005 01:49
whos head?

:: AphoticVM oGL Plugin : 0.001% Complete (v0.0.0.1) ::
Benjamin
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Nov 2002
Location: France
Posted: 22nd Mar 2005 01:51
I don't know...whoevers is easiest to cut off.


"Lets migrate like bricks" - Me
Ian T
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 12th Sep 2002
Location: Around
Posted: 22nd Mar 2005 01:52
Oh. Whatever

It is a perilous occupation for TGC to post anything by way of a promise, as the words get etched in indestructable marble for all time.
-Lee Bamber
empty
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: 3 boats down from the candy
Posted: 22nd Mar 2005 02:19
Quote: "FFS Leave him alone. It's not like it's a crime to be someone and deny it (in this case), so get over it and grow mature."

Thanks for your advice. Maybe later.

Quote: "It says don't inpersonate people, not what Required is doing.."

Actually, if Required is Raven, Raven does impersonate someone else (namely Required, which is supposed to be his brother).


Play Nice! Play Basic! Version 1.06
Neofish
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 7th Apr 2004
Location: A swimming pool of coke
Posted: 22nd Mar 2005 02:22
Quote: "if"

Hmm what's that "if"...I thought so. Prove that Required is Raven and you will be right. However, I'm pretty sure there is no real proof...(no spelling similarily is not a sign)

:: AphoticVM oGL Plugin : 0.001% Complete (v0.0.0.1) ::
empty
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: 3 boats down from the candy
Posted: 22nd Mar 2005 02:26
Quote: "Prove that Required is Raven and you will be right."

I have no interest to waste my time to proof it. I'm sure he is Raven, and I find his behaviour quite funny.


Play Nice! Play Basic! Version 1.06
Neofish
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 7th Apr 2004
Location: A swimming pool of coke
Posted: 22nd Mar 2005 02:28
Well that's your opinion and you do have a right to express it, but it's still immature, can't you leave the accusations to private chat (email) or something?

:: AphoticVM oGL Plugin : 0.001% Complete (v0.0.0.1) ::
empty
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: 3 boats down from the candy
Posted: 22nd Mar 2005 02:29
Quote: "but it's still immature,"

That, on the other hand, is your opinion.

Quote: "can't you leave the accusations to private chat (email) or something?"

No.


Play Nice! Play Basic! Version 1.06
Neofish
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 7th Apr 2004
Location: A swimming pool of coke
Posted: 22nd Mar 2005 02:33
Stubborn too -_-

:: AphoticVM oGL Plugin : 0.001% Complete (v0.0.0.1) ::
empty
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: 3 boats down from the candy
Posted: 22nd Mar 2005 02:36
Stubborn because I have a different opinion? Hm, well, that's fine by me.


Play Nice! Play Basic! Version 1.06
Benjamin
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Nov 2002
Location: France
Posted: 22nd Mar 2005 02:37
Jesus, you guys are just too much sometimes.


"Lets migrate like bricks" - Me
Neofish
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 7th Apr 2004
Location: A swimming pool of coke
Posted: 22nd Mar 2005 02:42
No stubborn because you refuse to accept/acknowledge the opinions of others, whether they are right or not.

:: AphoticVM oGL Plugin : 0.001% Complete (v0.0.0.1) ::
empty
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: 3 boats down from the candy
Posted: 22nd Mar 2005 02:46 Edited at: 22nd Mar 2005 02:46
Where exactly did I do that?
Look, you think it's immature that I find Raven's/Required's behaviour funny. I think it's not. Maybe we should get back on topic.


Play Nice! Play Basic! Version 1.06
Neofish
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 7th Apr 2004
Location: A swimming pool of coke
Posted: 22nd Mar 2005 02:49
No, I think it's immature that you can't leave him alone. You want to get back on topic when you taken threads far off it almost every time Required posts, email him or something, we all know that you don't believe his story but we don't want to be told repeatedly.

:: AphoticVM oGL Plugin : 0.001% Complete (v0.0.0.1) ::
empty
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: 3 boats down from the candy
Posted: 22nd Mar 2005 02:55
Quote: " No, I think it's immature that you can't leave him alone."

Good, but that makes no difference to my previous statement.


Quote: " You want to get back on topic when you taken threads far off it almost every time Required posts"

No, I didn't.



Back on topic:
In case someone wants to know EA's current financial situation and its development
http://investor.ea.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=88189&p=irol-reportsannual


Play Nice! Play Basic! Version 1.06
Jeku
Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Jul 2003
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 22nd Mar 2005 04:26 Edited at: 22nd Mar 2005 04:26
Come on guys, don't hijack the threads!

Quote: "Even if EA took us on for distribution, I don't want to end up like Dice or Westwood or Maxis and end up selling the studio outright."


So you would say no to millions of dollars in cash and stock? I find it pretty hard to believe. Look at it this way. Your budget (if it's anything like mine) is next to nothing. Every once in a while I buy a new tool (Giles for example), when I get paid or get my tax back etc. Game development takes a LOONGG time when you're working at it with honest money.

Imagine getting a cool few million to sell your game outright. You could take that money, invest it, or open up an office somewhere, and work on the games with the great tools and perks only money can afford. You mean to tell me you wouldn't do that? For me it's a small price to pay. I would sell any of my game ideas, ANY of them, if the price was good.

And all this talk about how EA is evil by buying up companies left and right--- well I would be buying up companies left and right if I were Don Mattrick, too :p

Quote: "Microsoft has a few tricks up their sleeve that could pretty much destroy EA's grip on the PC games market."


Hmmmm... I don't know about that. EA is one of the biggest companies in the world when you look at them from a financial point of view. They have $0 debt, which is almost unheard of, and they make several billion NET revenue every quarter. They're not Microsoft, but if MS can't touch Google, then MS can't touch EA :p


--[GameBasic - Coming Soon]-- ^^^ banner generously designed by TheBigBabou
Matt Rock
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Mar 2005
Location: Binghamton NY USA
Posted: 22nd Mar 2005 05:05
Quote: "They are allowed a state of autonomy as they have, because they have proven themselves building up many locations on thier own with funds provided by Electronic Arts."


Maxis was a development studio with only one single office, the infamous Will Wright "Dollhouse," in northern california. Maxis was owned independently and managed by Wright until they decided to trade on the stock exchange for a short period of time. EA bought many of the stocks out from under them, and eventually, Maxis caved. They didn't go willingly and there was a debacle as I recall over Will Wright withholding certain copyrights as his own because he didn't want the Sim franchises to be lost to someone else.

Quote: "The list provided in the original post appears incorrect, but yes EA has been making a huge number of acquisitions as of late.
"


What on that list is incorrect? I left off a few acquisitions because I didn't feel like doing any research... those were the ones from off my head. But after reading that statement I went to hotbot and searched for each one and found articles on each one (Doom, admittedly, might be a rumour, as it was a news article that someone had posted to a forum... I'm not sure if it was true). Other than that, every other item on that list is something currently owned, in one way or another, by Electronic Arts.

Quote: "There are many companies that are thankful that EA has stepped in to purchase them."


Like whom? Ubi is furious over EA's acquisition of 20% of their firm. Westwood almost chose bankruptcy over EA control. Criterion had so many members of the original development teams quit that EA was forced to re-negotiate its contracts with them. And dice? Dice was in an all-out war to keep themselves from caving, a war that lasted for quite some time as you may recall. They wanted EA to distribute, but EA wanted the whole studio! And how about Digital Illusions? That's where the EA slave-labor debacle began, and also, many of their development leaders walked on the spot and left EA in a bit of a jam. Besides the NFL, I can't think of a single company greatful for EA's diety-like control over their studio.

And finally, my favourite negative quote of the day:

Quote: "I do not understand why people are constantly making comments about Electronic Arts. I keep being told, "People are idiots who comment on things they just don't understand."


I may not be a very experienced programmer [in comparison to some of you anyway], but that doesn't mean I don't know the ropes. Bottom line is, I'm constantly reading about EA in every publication you can think of. Game Informer, for instance, is petrified that EA is going to soon be to video games what Microsoft is to Operating systems. SNL aired a skit about Lawrence Probst (EA's head honcho), Bill Gates, and Rupert Murdoch scheming and plotting to take over the world through the media. And have you read anything about Take2 Interactive's licensing agreement with the MLB (Major League Baseball)? In said contract Take2 stated that the MLB can license and contract said license to any development studio not related to, operating for, or otherwise a part of Electronic Arts or any of its subsidiaries. It was a direct blow at EA for all of their recent acquisitions, and EA is firing up now and taking aim at Take2.
Now do you see why the EA situation is something that should be taken more seriously? Yes, it's a classic corporate maneuver, exactly the strategy that the board game "Monopoly" is based upon, but I'm almost certain EA has a much more diabolical plot in mind.

As far as Microsoft cornering them... Can they legally do that? I hope so. If EA makes a push toward market domination, similar to what RKO did in the film industry in the 1930's, we, as the little people of the gaming industry, are going to be the ones who suffer the most. But this post is too long as it is so if you don't know why I guess you're just out of luck hehe

- Matt

"Hell is an Irish Pub where it's St. Patrick's Day all of the time." ~ Christopher, *The Soprano's*
Matt Rock
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Mar 2005
Location: Binghamton NY USA
Posted: 22nd Mar 2005 05:20
PS. - (I was on the phone while Jeku posted so I have to comment on what he said

Quote: "So you would say no to millions of dollars in cash and stock? I find it pretty hard to believe. Look at it this way. Your budget (if it's anything like mine) is next to nothing. Every once in a while I buy a new tool (Giles for example), when I get paid or get my tax back etc. Game development takes a LOONGG time when you're working at it with honest money."


You have to remember though... unlike most DB developers, I have a full team working with me. We share production costs just like we split work load. We're an actual, legally-legit company, a partnership technically, so getting the stuff we need isn't as hard as it is for most. And I'm one of those people who refuses to be told he won't make millions of dollars doing something! I'm positively convinced that our project, when finished and released (tentatively) this summer, will be "the next big thing," and I'm sure that whatever offer EA throws at me won't be as much as I'm predicting we'll make. My mom always said "Matt, if you want something bad enough, you can have it." That's the greatest piece of advice of all time, and no matter what anyone tries to tell me, I've seen nothing but positives arise from my various creative endeavors throughout life. BTW, I say all of this to be absolutely certain I wouldn't need to listen to someone tell me "You can't make a top-quality game with DB Pro." You can, we're doing it now, so are a lot of other people, so you negativity drones: pipe down!

And another thing that's a bit off topic...after working with this team for quite some time, I'll never understand how it's even remotely possible to make a game while in "cahoots" with internet friends... it's hard enough for us to coordinate this project, and we all live in the same city (for the most part anyway)! How do they do it?

- Matt

"Hell is an Irish Pub where it's St. Patrick's Day all of the time." ~ Christopher, *The Soprano's*
Jeku
Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Jul 2003
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 22nd Mar 2005 05:34
Quote: "I'm positively convinced that our project, when finished and released (tentatively) this summer, will be "the next big thing," and I'm sure that whatever offer EA throws at me won't be as much as I'm predicting we'll make."


Then all the power to ya! It's good to hear somebody with a positive attitude on this forum, believe me

That being said, unless I was making the next Doom, I would sell out in a heartbeat. I think almost anybody with a sane mind would, it's just I'm the only one being honest about it. It's hard to say no to millions.

You incorrectly stated that EA owns the Doom and American McGee franchises. Doom is still owned by id, and American McGee is the name of a real man. EA released Alice, but they had nothing to do with his newest game that was released, American McGee's something or other (forgot the name).

And working at EA is NOT SLAVE LABOUR for the last time hehehe. Everybody there has a choice to leave, so it's more or less die-hards who eat sleep and breathe programming who remain. The perks are pretty damn good for EA employees (believe me), and I can see why many people love working for them!


--[GameBasic - Coming Soon]-- ^^^ banner generously designed by TheBigBabou
Matt Rock
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Mar 2005
Location: Binghamton NY USA
Posted: 22nd Mar 2005 05:52
I agree whole-heartedly with the slave labour thing. If you lack passion to make games, then don't make games... seems simple enough to me. I was just commenting on that.

I had to investigate the American McGee situation further. I knew he was a real guy, but I was fairly sure that he was using his name as a development company title. Sure enough, that's the case. What had confused me was that EA offered him an exclusive contract and he declined. I mentioned before that I wasn't sure about the validity of the Doom acquisition, although I was certain that if such a deal did or would take place it wouldn't involve ID's latest release.

And thank you! I keep reading posts by people who are so down about DB Pro and it's functionality, and who constantly remark how it's impossible to make a high end game with TGC stuff. I'm convinced that the people who think this way simply lack the drive to try. In light of that, know what I'm gonna do when (that's right underachievers, when, not if, but when) my game is mega-successful? I'm going to expand my current studio to sign contracts with people like Jeku and Van, who don't quit when the going gets tough and don't think things are impossible. Then we'll all make tons of money because we're the ones who truly know the potential of this software and, more importantly, the potential of ourselves.

- Matt Rock

PS. - I am in no way, shape, form, or meaning of the word bound to any contract with any of the aformentioned individuals to promote and/ or distribute titles developed by them hehe (Actually, in all seriousness, that might not be a bad idea maybe I should think that through, hehe )

"Hell is an Irish Pub where it's St. Patrick's Day all of the time." ~ Christopher, *The Soprano's*
BearCDPOLD
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 16th Oct 2003
Location: AZ,USA
Posted: 22nd Mar 2005 07:02
Hmmm an EA thread.
Here the usual:



EA Needs To Die



for you.

Crazy Donut Productions
Current Project: A Redneck game
Matt Rock
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Mar 2005
Location: Binghamton NY USA
Posted: 22nd Mar 2005 07:04
Interesting Note, and I'm sure some of you have gotten stuff like this before: I just received an e-mail from an individual whose name I'll spare for the sake of their embarassment. This person sent me an e-mail detailing their "hot new game" and asked if my company would publish it. They then explained how work isn't started yet, but would be if I could help them monetarily. To this and any other such inquiries:

No. What I said in my last post was more metaphorical than anything, and hypothetical at best. If someday we do decide to publish indie games, we'll contact the people we'd like to make an offer to, not the other way around. There's laws about that sort of thing But I'm not really thinking that far into the future... I'm focusing on the tasks at hand, because if these tasks aren't completed, the studio will crumble and I'll have upset a whole lot of people. So, I'm sorry, no, we won't help you with your game. But by all means, keep working at it and one day in the not-so-distant future? Who knows.

[I know this post was irrelevant to the subject at hand but after reading that e-mail I figured writing this post might help stave off similar e-mails. Sorry ]

"Hell is an Irish Pub where it's St. Patrick's Day all of the time." ~ Christopher, *The Soprano's*
billy the kid
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 7th Dec 2004
Location:
Posted: 22nd Mar 2005 11:33 Edited at: 22nd Mar 2005 11:36
The situation with EA and slave labor IS slave labor. Now they do get paid so it isnt slave labor per se, but it is quite ridiculous what they are doing. What they are doing is similar to what companies were doing back in the early 1900s, working them to death with little pay.

Now yes they do make quite a bit of money, but not compared to how much they work. The lawsuit is about overtime pay. All of the people working on the games that could not be classified as an engineer (non-programmers) are suing for overtime pay. I guess they have been forced to work up to 80 hours per week while only getting 40 hours of pay. I dont think any of them are too afraid of 80 hours per week of work, nor would I personally. But not getting compensated is ridiculous. And I dont care how good the benefits are.

And the reason they can legally do this is they are using a law that says that in times of crisis doctors, engineers, and other vital personnel do not have to be paid overtime. And Id say it is a good law unless it is abused like EA is doing. And really no one in the gaming industry should fall in that category, but there must be some loopholes in the law language somewhere. Anyway that is what really makes me sick.

As for working 80 hours per week, once in awhile is okay. If it is crunch time because of a deadline that is fine. But to do it week after week is ridiculous. People need rest. They need that weekend to relax and recover from working all week. And actually a person who works 40-60 hours per week and gets the weekend off will produce more work and higher quality work than someone who works 80 hours per week. Working 80 hours per week every week with no rest minus sleeping begins to really wear on a person. I dont care who you are.

So yes it is ridiculous what EA is doing to its employees. I dont think the people apart of the class action lawsuit are afraid of doing work or lack passion for making games. I think they are just sick and tired of working their butt off for little compensation. It just isnt ethical. Plus its bad business really. They get sued and all their titles continue to be crap.

Oh and it wouldnt be so bad if EA let you work 16 hours per day Mon-Fri and let you have the weekend off, but they make you work EVERY day. And that is where the getting worked to death comes in. Although 16 hours would be quite excessive. I really think you should only expect someone to work a maximum of 60 hours per week under normal circumstances.

And Matt if you ever do get your own company going, please do not do what EA is doing. Make sure to give your employees the weekend off unless there is a critical deadline. You will have much happier employees who will produce much better work which will make you happier because it will make you richer.

As for your original post, thats business as usual. Unfortunately us gamers are the ones who get the shaft. EA is basically removing all creativity from the industry which is a shame. I shouldnt say all, there is still some creativity but much less.
Matt Rock
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Mar 2005
Location: Binghamton NY USA
Posted: 22nd Mar 2005 11:45
Billy, you make some excellent arguements in support of the EA employees... bravo. I didn't realize how bad it was... when I heard it was EA I dismissed finding out much more because, well it's EA and things like this can be expected. Well, things of what I thought this all meant, anyway.

As far as my own company is concerned, it already is going, hehe. We just don't have a product yet. And to remark on your request that we refrain from pushing our developers too much... too late. I already bought whips and chains and band-aids to sooth their bloody fingers to keep productivity up. We can't have our keyboards all bloody, either! No, seriously, we already decided that no matter how successful our company gets, we want to try and keep it relatively small, and even my ultra-optimistic outlook never predicts my company rising to the likes of EA. But yes, I promise, and you can quote me on this later if need be, we will not use such tactics for our teams

- Matt

"Hell is an Irish Pub where it's St. Patrick's Day all of the time." ~ Christopher, *The Soprano's*
billy the kid
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 7th Dec 2004
Location:
Posted: 22nd Mar 2005 11:54 Edited at: 22nd Mar 2005 11:56
Good!

Oh FYI, I guess what EA is doing is actually more common than you would think in the gaming industry. However EA is definitely the worst.
Mnemonix
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd Dec 2002
Location: Skaro
Posted: 22nd Mar 2005 13:31
Its a bleeding company. Concern yourselves with something IMPORTANT guys.

Ok the happenings in the computing industry are important to me, but I dont have to have big debates about it, or preach my opinions to anybody else.

Do any of you guys know anything about current local affairs, to a depth of which you (allegedly) have knowledge of EA?

The 3d chat is coming...
Rights For Traffic Cones!
Jeku
Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Jul 2003
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 22nd Mar 2005 14:13 Edited at: 22nd Mar 2005 14:14
Quote: "All of the people working on the games that could not be classified as an engineer (non-programmers) are suing for overtime pay."


Dude, calm down. The lawsuits are all coming from programmers! The ones who get paid by the hour (like QA) DO get paid overtime! In fact, when I was working there for 13 hours a day, 7 days a week, I made a crapload of cash.

As for the programmers and artists--- honestly nobody is forcing them to work at EA. They know beforehand that this industry is crazy, and EVERY games company has harsh crunch times. That's the story of the biz, and if they don't like it they can leave. I know that's harsh but for every one of them, there's 1000 fresh university graduates who would love to take their place.


--[GameBasic - Coming Soon]-- ^^^ banner generously designed by TheBigBabou
Van B
Moderator
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Oct 2002
Location: Sunnyvale
Posted: 22nd Mar 2005 17:08
EA is an industry, it's not the place for original games or ideas - it's a succesful money making machine because we buy the stuff they publish - they have the Fifa and Tiger Woods licences, they could probably survive on the proceeds of those 2 product lines alone.

I think though, that the biggest crime EA are subjecting us to is the obliteration of a lot of the more quirky and original titles that could have been possible if not for their buyout plan. I dread to think when we won't see games like 'Beyond Good and Evil' and we'll all be stuck with sequels of games we were never that fond of in the first place.


Van-B


It's c**p being the only coder in the village.
Required
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 25th Feb 2005
Location: Server Down
Posted: 22nd Mar 2005 19:06
{Raven]

Quote: "They know beforehand that this industry is crazy, and EVERY games company has harsh crunch times."


EA has a little more literal terming for the word Crunch-Time though.
It is something I'd expect from the UK Publisher like, I dunno Eidos.

From an American company though... i dunno it just didn't expect it to be AS bad as it was. You right though, it isn't like your forced to, and you make one HELL of alot of cash.

Working a 6day 48hr week (which was pretty light for EA), it was nice to be bringing home close to £1,300 come Sunday. That isn't including project bonus' which are REAL nice!

EA will never have complete market control, because thier games don't appeal world-wide. Square-Enix make a true killing in the asian markets... Microsoft have other avenues of financial gain that they can dip into if needed.

What EA bring to the table is simple and straight forward. Thier own stability. While working there might feel like a sweatshop at times, becuase suits don't really understand there is a concept such as rest. The fact is that technically speaking, sitting on your arse 90% of the day looking at a screen is only mentally exhausting. The places I've worked only one had active people there.. They'd go out and play football or something at lunch, it was crazy.

People like truck engineers though, they work for about 1/2 the pay developer guys do.. same crappy hours, only they have to spend all day pulling apart and putting back together heavy machinary.

Do they bitch about how hard thier day was? Damn right they do, DOWN THE PUB. Where non-retarded kids aren't allowed, so you can sit, have a bevvy and know that you don't have to put up with some whinging guy who has never worked a hard day in his damn life is going to complain about working conditions in a job that would look like heaven compaired to thier current job.

There are OTHER publisher than EA, they will never become the ONLY publisher... so in other words. Pipedown you peons.

Face facts, you can bloat over how much you'd turn down EA over 'moral' issues. At the end of the day, you have more chances of being killed by a flaming radioactive toilet seat than you do of EA actually actively offering to buy you out.

Perhaps more, because once your an Ltd all they need to do is purchase majority shares. As most Ltd companys only give 2 shares out to start with because you can't afford £50,000/$100,000 worth of shares, EA could come in buy out your company without much say from you in the matter and do as they please with your franchise.

Always better to make a deal with the devil on your terms than loose you soul on his.

Van B
Moderator
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Oct 2002
Location: Sunnyvale
Posted: 22nd Mar 2005 19:34
Medical fact:
It is more tiring doing mental work like programming than to dig roads. Your brain makes you tired, not how much road you've dug that day.

I went from being a factory drone to a technical clerk, and the difference is both noticable and unexpected - I actually think manual labour leaves you more alert at the end of the day because your body rests quicker than your brain, so if your brain has more to deal with then you need more sleep.

Can I just state that Required is responsible for anything 'Raven' types, so maybe Raven can be a little less flamebait-material with 'someone elses' account.


Van-B


It's c**p being the only coder in the village.
empty
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: 3 boats down from the candy
Posted: 22nd Mar 2005 19:49
Quote: "Perhaps more, because once your an Ltd all they need to do is purchase majority shares. As most Ltd companys only give 2 shares out to start with because you can't afford £50,000/$100,000 worth of shares, EA could come in buy out your company without much say from you in the matter and do as they please with your franchise."

Aha, from where would they buy these two shares?
And why do you need £50,000 to give out more shares?


Play Nice! Play Basic! Version 1.06
Mnemonix
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd Dec 2002
Location: Skaro
Posted: 22nd Mar 2005 23:25
Er, EA would only need to become the majority shareholder.

Most people seem to think that if you start a company, you ARE the company when really your just the majority shareholder. The company is a seperate entity. Ea can buy shares in it.

I think thats right anyway

The 3d chat is coming...
Rights For Traffic Cones!
billy the kid
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 7th Dec 2004
Location:
Posted: 23rd Mar 2005 00:01 Edited at: 23rd Mar 2005 00:05
Jeku - When the class action suit was first filed, no programmers were apart of it. That is because they can be classified as software engineers. Now since then it could have changed, I havent read anything about it recently.

And although I wont argue you made a "crapload of cash", consider this:

In the United States, the average starting salary for a software engineer is around $55,000 per year not including other benefits. And that is for 40 hours per week of work. Now according to you, you worked 91 hours per week. Now lets assume you were a programmer (dont know what your job was). Are you telling me they paid you $160,187 per year? I find that highly unlikely. And in case that seems really high, you have to remember overtime pay is time and a half normally. I could have also made a stupid mistake. But even so I think you get the point.

Also where did you work for EA? Was it in Vancouver? The lawsuit started in California which is where they have that law EA is abusing. So yes people in Vancouver probably get paid overtime.

Oh and someone mentioned it being nice to bring home extra money on the weekend. Although I wouldnt disagree with that statement. I would say I personally would rather do about 1000 other things than work on the weekend. You know people with families, nagging wifes, actual lives outside of work are not so happy to make a few extra bucks. If you are single and have no life, ok. Not ok otherwise.
robo cat
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 23rd Feb 2004
Location: In a cat litter tray, near you...
Posted: 23rd Mar 2005 00:24
I despise EA! Normally you could use the argument "they're not forcing you to by their games so how can you despise them?", but this is not the case. Not only does EA produce an endless stream of below par games based on popular films, but they ruin the chances of other developers making quality orginal games. Look at any film license made by EA, its probably awful. If the license was in the hands of a quality developer such as Capcom then the license would not be wasted on some awful game that fans still feel they have to buy. Capcom is able to deliver quality and original games and have some of my favorite games ever, so why can't they give games based on films the treatment they deserve? The answer... EA!!!! EA also buys exclusive rights to things, such as player / club names and then incinerates them in the flaming turd that is Fifa. I don't buy Fifa but still it affects me. Great games, such as Pro Evolution Soccer were forced to have names such as Old Firm Green and Von Mistleroum all because of the selfish money making behaviour of EA. It makes money, but its slowly destroying the games industry. As innovative developers are sucked into it, this blob of destruction will devour all innovation remaining in the industry!

Simple... yet fun!

Login to post a reply

Server time is: 2024-11-14 13:02:34
Your offset time is: 2024-11-14 13:02:34