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Geek Culture / Sony Ordered to Halt Playstation Sales

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Sol462
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Posted: 29th Mar 2005 09:36
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=581&e=1&u=/nm/20050328/tc_nm/tech_sony_dc
There's the article, what do y'all think spazuhs?
(Please no console fanboy flaming. )

Dot Merix
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Posted: 29th Mar 2005 09:40 Edited at: 29th Mar 2005 09:43
Perhaps if you read the article you'd notice that they are NOT on a halt order..
Quote: "
The stay in the case means Sony will "NOT" actually have to stop importing or selling the PlayStation 2 console in the United States, and will "NOT" have to remove PS2s from store shelves, while the appeal is pending.


Financial analysts said there was little practical impact to the order.


"There's no way that Sony's going to stop selling PS2s any time soon, so I don't see the injunction ever taking effect," said Michael Pachter, an analyst at Wedbush Morgan. "


I really hate it when people make topics that have no, or opposite relevance to the actual information within it. Although i see that you just copied the title from the article, so you're not really to blame, a more appropriate title could've been chosen.



WindowsXP Home(Service pack 2), Athlon XP 2400+(2.1Ghz), 1GIG Ram, Ati Radeon 9800Pro 128MB.
Sol462
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Posted: 29th Mar 2005 09:42
Well I didn't.

Dot Merix
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Posted: 29th Mar 2005 09:45
It would've been amazingly interesting had that actually been the truth however, EBGames etc removing all PS2's and other Sony equipment from the shelves leaving the other parties consoles... Though i imagine the odds of that ever happening are slim to none.



WindowsXP Home(Service pack 2), Athlon XP 2400+(2.1Ghz), 1GIG Ram, Ati Radeon 9800Pro 128MB.
Jimmy
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Posted: 29th Mar 2005 09:56
Sol462
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Posted: 29th Mar 2005 10:06
Then PS2 owners will riot in the streets, and Microsoft will own the console market.

BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 29th Mar 2005 14:38
Immersion is an anal probe and needs to be shot. I don't even have a playstation or psp, how hard is it to figure out how to make a rumbling controller? Why don't they sue Nintendo and Microsoft while they're at it? The article didn't even tell us if Sony is believed to have stolen the patent or something, so we can't even whine about it properly.

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Jeku
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Posted: 29th Mar 2005 14:50
I think Nintendo and MS already paid Immersion to license the technology, although I could be mistaken.


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Dave J
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Posted: 29th Mar 2005 14:59
I'm surprised it took Immersion 5 years to realise Sony 'stole' their technology and decide to sue them. You'd think at least one employee in the company would realise that the Playstation's controllers vibrated and they hadn't been licensed...


"Computers are useless, they can only give you answers."
Osiris
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Posted: 29th Mar 2005 15:04
...You'd think.

Raven
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Posted: 29th Mar 2005 15:13
Playstation2 sales have peaked anyway. Only the legal fees will actually hurt Sony financially. Especially given this only applies in the United States..

Sorry but Immersion are being gold diggers here, plain and simple.
While they do have a case against Sony (and only Sony), the fact is that they have waited 5years in order to push this case.

Also if you look at the actual ruling they didn't bend over backwards to get Sony to stop, only to pay them money.
If this was really about "The principal of unauthorized use of our technology..." as the CEO said, then surely they would've pushed to get the sales injunction in-place until it could be appealed.

This said, I'd suggest ppl stop reading Yahoo! News. It's about as trust-worthy as a tabloid, or TheInquirer.
Jeku
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Posted: 29th Mar 2005 17:17
Why only Sony?

Pretty much every system after the Dreamcast had a rumble feature built-in. Immersion simply waited and saw if Sony's machine was going to be wildly popular (like it turned out to be), then it sued, and AFAIK have every right to.


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BatVink
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Posted: 29th Mar 2005 19:14
It's rather like the guy whose face appears on Nestle jars. He waited 20 years to claim royalties, and ended up taking a cut of every jar of the sold since the photo first appeared - £8.3 million!

Sometimes it pays to wait.

BatVink
Raven
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Posted: 29th Mar 2005 19:20
Jeku, the issue is the technology in use that was patented.

Immersion DO NOT hold the patent to Force Feed Back technology, they hold the patent on 'Dual Shock' technology.

To put this in to perspective, it would be like...
IBM created the x86 Processor, and Intel then create the x86 with MMX. So AMD use MMX from the specifications online at Intel.com, in thier processor in order to make thier technology easily compatible.

Intel could then sue AMD for using MMX in thier processor, and Yahoo! News would claim 'Intel stopping AMD from developing x86 Processors!'

In the overview, yes it would be true Intel would be preventing it. On the other hand however the truth is only the next generation processors would have to remove MMX, they could still sell the processor themselves.

Nintendo's Rumble technology, and Microsoft's Force Feedback technology, might achieve the same end, but through different means.

It would be like comparing SSE to 3DNow! They're designed to do the same damn thing, but they work very differently.

God knows why I'm using processor analgies but it probably makes a lot more sense now.
Van B
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Posted: 29th Mar 2005 19:25
Atari did the same to SEGA - they were in financial trouble and sued SEGA for using their 9-pin joystick port.

At the end of the day, when a company invests money in developing something, that's not a licence for anyone else to use it as well to save money and time. It happens all the time, when a company is going under, anything goes.

Sony can afford it, M$ can afford it, surely it's a good thing that the smaller companies get to punch back now and again?.


Van-B

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Van-B's mom.
Raven
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Posted: 29th Mar 2005 19:42
Perhaps, but the way they've gone about it wasn't right.
After all, they co-developed 'Dual Shock' which the original License covered.

Sony changed the name and MCC for the PS2/PSP to Dual Shock 2, the changes which only actually affect the buttons not the Dual Shock technology. It does breach the License, but really it is an under-handed way to do things by waiting. They could've pushed for an out of court royalty agreement before the PS2 was released.
Vindicate
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Posted: 30th Mar 2005 02:40
Quote: "IBM created the x86 Processor, and Intel then create the x86 with MMX."


So, Intel sues AMD over copying some MMX extensions, while IBM sits by and lets Intel run away with the most popular and profitable mainstream CPU architecture ever. Great analogy.

The IBM x86 is a great CPU though. I hear they recommend it for running Microsoft's Mac OSX



Quote: "God knows why I'm using processor analgies"


Obviously, He enjoys laughing at the expense of your idiocy.
Sol462
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Posted: 30th Mar 2005 04:50
Quote: "This said, I'd suggest ppl stop reading Yahoo! News. It's about as trust-worthy as a tabloid, or TheInquirer."

And I got the link from Gamedev.

GZMGames Admin
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Posted: 30th Mar 2005 09:59
personally i think ps2s are great i would like an Xbox though but even if the stopped selling ps2s, ebay would have em for probablyy more then what they are now that is if PS2s were off store shevles and as a ps2 owner i would riot in the streets

Games made with passion
bitJericho
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Posted: 30th Mar 2005 13:03
Quote: "This said, I'd suggest ppl stop reading Yahoo! News. It's about as trust-worthy as a tabloid, or TheInquirer. "


Are you saying George W. Bush is NOT taking advice from Lincoln's Ghost in the oval office at night?

I saw the picture with my own eyes! There's no way they could fabricate that!


Yarr join teh New and Improved LoGD!
Raven
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Posted: 30th Mar 2005 13:16
Quote: "So, Intel sues AMD over copying some MMX extensions, while IBM sits by and lets Intel run away with the most popular and profitable mainstream CPU architecture ever. Great analogy."


Well considering a web-monkey like yourself enjoys the company of google each night rather than a cosey bed with a nice girl, perhaps you can enlighten everyone to who actually does own the Patent on Force Feed Back technology.

The analogy makes perfect sense.

IBM *does* own the x86 Architecture.
There is no mention of if Intel or AMD are Licensing the x86 technology, where-as there IS an obvious mention that AMD is NOT Licensing the MMX technology.

So please, refresh my memory to what part of the analogy (which technically doesn't have to be perfectly true, you just use a common knowlage instance that people will understand in order to explain a situation they don't) is actually incorrect here.

Just another fine example of why I decided to take a well earnt break from the retard zone.
Vindicate
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Posted: 30th Mar 2005 18:49
Intel owns x86you dipstick.

Oh look, here's the patent.

See those words next to Assignee? The ones that look conspicuously like "Intel Corporation"?


Quote: "IBM *does* own the x86 Architecture"


*Poses for photo op with quote*

CLICK!

Fan-TASTIC.

Well Bobby, If there's anything else I can help you with, let me know.
empty
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Posted: 31st Mar 2005 18:15 Edited at: 31st Mar 2005 18:27
Quite interesting to see how much impact this has on Immersion in the Nasdaq.
http://quotes.nasdaq.com/quote.dll?page=charting&mode=basics&selected=IMMR&symbol=IMMR%60&timeframe=1y&charttype=line

Take a look at the volume chart (end of March).


Play Nice! Play Basic! Version 1.06
Raven
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Posted: 31st Mar 2005 19:35
Quote: "Intel owns x86you dipstick.

Oh look, here's the patent.

See those words next to Assignee? The ones that look conspicuously like "Intel Corporation"?"


You might want to read what you find next time.
Just a quick question, but are you aware of what IA32 is? If so could you answer why it was important for Intel when they released the Pentium Processor?

We'll ignore for a second what the patent you've found (on an unofficial site btw) actually covers, and assume it means the x86 processor design. Even though for the entire x86 range your talking atleast 8 patents just for the CPU design as a whole let alone each of the subsections.

So we're not assuming Intel own the Patent, and it is for the entire x86 range. The funny thing about patents, copyrights, and trademarks that makes all of this so mind boggling is the fact that despite who registers the patent, the legal owner is the company in charge at the time.

For example, if you were hired by Microsoft and you came up with a revolutionary new Operating System. So you rush out and patent it to prevent people from stealing it, while your name would be the legal patent holder.. Microsoft would also register themselves as the proprioter(sp?) of the technology, meaning that while you can take legal action outside of Microsoft; if they choose to use this technology they can without you being able to do anything.

Kinda like a whole chain of command thing.
Like if Lee was to register DarkBasic's object handling as a patent, because he is employed by TGC it would automatically become that legal entities property (unless he specifically goes through a personal patent).. so even though he owns the company, if for any reason he was fired then the patent would still remain at TGC. Legally meaning he can't use what he created no more.

If you want a much better understanding of how this all works, then I'd suggest you do some research on EIDOS, Core Design, Crystal Dynamics, Jeremy Heath-Smith and Tomb Raider.

It's probably the most understandable open situation to a patent I've ever seen.

Quote: "Quite interesting to see how much impact this has on Immersion in the Nasdaq.
http://quotes.nasdaq.com/quote.dll?page=charting&mode=basics&selected=IMMR&symbol=IMMR%60&timeframe=1y&charttype=line

Take a look at the volume chart (end of March)."


You know what is more interesting?
If you check, they've only been trading since 2000

Yet if Yahoo are to be believed, they invented technology that's been around and in use for almost 6years before that.
Never gets old hearing about people inventing things that have been around for years.
empty
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Posted: 31st Mar 2005 20:23
Quote: "You know what is more interesting?
If you check, they've only been trading since 2000

Yet if Yahoo are to be believed, they invented technology that's been around and in use for almost 6years before that.
Never gets old hearing about people inventing things that have been around for years. "

Erm... they're listed in the Nasdaq since December 1999 but that doesn't mean they haven't existed before. In fact they started in 1993.

Quote: "Just a quick question, but are you aware of what IA32 is?"

Oh, yes. According to you it's the Intel Alpha. But I think we've been through this already. http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=30085&b=2


Play Nice! Play Basic! Version 1.06
Raven
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Posted: 1st Apr 2005 04:22
Quote: "Erm... they're listed in the Nasdaq since December 1999 but that doesn't mean they haven't existed before. In fact they started in 1993."


Nasdaq claims a different date, and the Company check on them also says a much more recent date for incorporation.

Quote: "Oh, yes. According to you it's the Intel Alpha. But I think we've been through this already"


Oh yes. Funnily enough no matter it's name it still doesn't make me wrong on the issue above, but just ment that you have an excuse to pull up an old topic for your own sport. It's nice to see your still firmly showing that single digit mentality.
ionstream
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Posted: 1st Apr 2005 05:11
Edited by Van B: Stop flaming raven, or raven v2, or whatever the crap his name is. Edit timestamp removed for buligerent purposes.


Any and all patents should be scanned for stupidity. I think I'll patent the numeric system and sue everything that ever had math in it.

Easiest $400,000,000,000 i've ever made.

UnderLord
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Posted: 1st Apr 2005 06:07
Ion is there a link to your site....

i think its pretty stupied of immersion or whatever the hell the companys name is to sue sony for a little thing liek that im sure sony paid for the technology....and just when you though the only case with "vibration technology" would be against adult toy companys they go after sony =P

When we talk to god, we're praying. When god talks to us, we're schizophrenic.
Schizophrenic beats eating alone.
Vindicate
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Posted: 1st Apr 2005 06:17
Patent law is definitely in need of serious revision. I think in certain cases, it should limit claims on intellectual property based on the period of time that has lapsed prior to a challenge, especially when the patent holder is not the original or acquired it through foreclosure.


Quote: "We'll ignore for a second what the patent you've found...actually covers"


Ok. While we're at it, let's just ignore reality altogether.
Drew Cameron
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Posted: 1st Apr 2005 06:59 Edited at: 1st Apr 2005 07:03
Good for the little guy - Sony stole lots of my money in repairs for their faulty crap. I've replaced my PS2, twice. Considering that I hardly use it, that is unacceptable and they will not be getting my custom anymore.

I've also had a CD player and a camcorder from Sony that have broken. Down with Sony.

Coming April 1st - a treat in the WIP board
empty
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Posted: 1st Apr 2005 07:13
Quote: "Nasdaq claims a different date, and the Company check on them also says a much more recent date for incorporation."

And I dare to ask, can you prove that statement?
Everywhere I look it says "Founded in 1993". Or is another case of the entire world against Raven?

Quote: "Oh yes. Funnily enough no matter it's name it still doesn't make me wrong on the issue above, but just ment that you have an excuse to pull up an old topic for your own sport."

And the point is what? The IA-32 is called that way because with the Pentium Intel wanted to get rid of the 80x86 name.


Quote: "It's nice to see your still firmly showing that single digit mentality."

Yes, for your pleasure only. And it's interesting to see that you haven't learnt a single thing during your "well deserved break".


Play Nice! Play Basic! Version 1.06
Drew Cameron
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Posted: 1st Apr 2005 07:28
Ha ha ha

Coming April 1st - a treat in the WIP board
Oraculaca
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Posted: 1st Apr 2005 07:37
Immersions web site:
Quote: "Founded in 1993, Immersion Corporation is a recognized leader in developing, licensing, and marketing digital touch technology"

http://immr.client.shareholder.com/ReleaseDetail.cfm?ReleaseID=129751

A Company Timeline:
http://www.immersion.com/corporate/background/

Drew Cameron
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Posted: 1st Apr 2005 07:39 Edited at: 1st Apr 2005 07:39
[EDIT]

Coming April 1st - a treat in the WIP board

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