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Newcomers DBPro Corner / Noobie to Dark Basic need help with making 3d games!!

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D18AGON
19
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Joined: 25th Sep 2004
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Posted: 30th Apr 2005 21:10
Hi, I love the idea of making my own games and want to learn this language insideout so I can do anything I imagine, I'm using dbclassic at the moment which I'm sure has everything I need for the games I want to make, and from my experience 3dcanvis models won't work with DBpro and it's the only 3d modeler I have sooo.... I want to make fighting action games like karate kid and medievil knights and stuff and eventually if not at first I want these games to be online multiplayer games coz thats what I'm interested in the most. Please don't tell me to make a fvking pong game as i'd rather be learning what I need to know to make the actual games im going to be making and not wasting my time with these novelty games, sure I might learn something which has absolutely nothing to do with what my aim is, and I will learn what I need to know for the games I WANT to make while I'm making them. I have already looked at the tutorials and they dont help much, can someone show me a path to mastering DBC everything from loading objects to AI and collision etc. I might want to do some more advanced things like make car games and stuff later too so if anyone could show me where the info I will need for this kind of coding is I would be most graciouse. In other words how did the people who actually know how to use this language get to where they are today, pls show me this path that they took and I will take it thnxs.
Digital Dragon
19
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Joined: 17th Dec 2004
Location: ...
Posted: 1st May 2005 00:18
Not flaming or anything but i was JUST like you when i started i wanted to create a really good game, I luckily got someone to help me on msn then it turned out that he wsn't on so much and now we have stopped and to look back i have realised that he did all the code i didn't do anything!

I also hate people that say do pong but what I found whatever you start with learning you do the most like i did simple programmes now I am creating a simple scripting system I find them better than 3d stuff

But say what you would like to make like 3d,2d or programmes then i hopefully can help you some more


Yeah There Might Be A Edit Button, Who Says I Have To Use It?
hyrichter
20
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Joined: 15th Feb 2004
Location: Arizona
Posted: 1st May 2005 00:24
I think you'll find that those who understand the DarkBASIC language the best are those who have been programming for several years in other languages as well. I've found that there isn't that much to "mastering" a language as you say. After about 13 years of programming, what I've found is that the language isn't what makes all the difference -- it's how well you're able to logic through something to get it to work. Sure, a language like DB makes it a lot easier to work with DirectX, but if you don't understand good solid programming principles, and most of all LOGIC, you'll never find a language you really like.

What I'm saying is that just knowing all of a language's commands won't get you very far. You've got to think through ways on how to use them together to get what you want. Plus there are thousands of ways to accomplish the same thing (some better than others of course)

You're going to have to start simple -- I'm not saying to start with pong or something like that (I never did) -- but you want to start on the basics of your game first. For example, in your fighting game, first get some models to move around the screen (it doesn't matter what they look like; you can fix that later.) Then after you get one part down, add in another, like jumping. Then maybe you can work on some karate moves. Just don't try doing everything at once, or you'll get totally lost.

As for collision, unless you have a good amount of knowledge in higher maths (trig/calculus) and know how to make your own DLLs, I'd suggest getting Nuclear Glory. It'll save you way more time than the $15 it costs you to buy it. You could probably earn a couple hundred bucks mowing lawns in the time it would take you to write your own collision system. But that's just my opinion; you may be just as well off using the built in collision commands. Just be warned that they aren't very efficient.

Main thing is that any project you program in any language will give you experience for all languages. Don't be afraid to look at some c++ code for AI as what you're mainly looking for is ideas, and c++ code isn't that hard to understand. Also, don't feel bad if your game doesn't look very good at first -- you've got to start at the beginning. Get the functionality of it working good and then worry about all the aesthetics. So stay encouraged with your project, and when you run into a serious problem that you really can't figure out, post here and I'm sure someone will help you out.

Best of luck.

D18AGON
19
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Joined: 25th Sep 2004
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Posted: 1st May 2005 23:43
Mr naughty, I thought I made it clear that I want to make 3d games, but if u didn't get that don't worry, thnx for the advice guys, I'l try to make sense of the help files, some things just arn't explained though so when I get to a place where I need to ask a question I will post it here somewhere and hopefully I'l get help lol. Lets see how far I can get on my own shall we, I'm betting it's not verry far lol. As for collision, I have had some experience with a freind that helped me, he avoided all the complex maths by attaching boxes to the limbs and when the boxes collided with each other there was a programmed reaction like a change in animation. For eg a man getting hit then the animation of the man getting hit played. I'l use something simple like that.
the chode
19
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Joined: 27th Apr 2005
Location: desert
Posted: 6th May 2005 10:30
so wait that box thing isnt the actual way to do it?? uh oh...

Dude
dlefik 2008
19
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Joined: 28th Apr 2005
Location: Spencerville, OH
Posted: 6th May 2005 14:46 Edited at: 6th May 2005 15:09
You know, I kinda had to put in my own two cents on this, and I know it probably means nothing coming from a newcomer as myself, but even with as retarded as pong may be, you'd be very suprised to see how much you can learn about programming in general. I was kinda in the same boat when I first got DBPro, I wa slike alright, I want to make a killer command and conquer type of game in 3D and all these ideas going around, but once I even tried it without a good basic knowledge of programming, I was like, forget this, too overwhelming. Alot of 2D principles can be applied to 3D I'm sure, and just as a matter of personal opinion, I think if you try to dive in too deep, too fast, you're gonna drown. And it don't do no good just looking through the forums and cutting and pasting bits of peoples codes into you're project, cuz if you do, and you're program comes to a dead stop and you have to troubleshoot it, you're screwed if you don't understand it. Seems too many newcomers are too damn impatient and don't want to even try and do their own problem solving, it's always easier just to ask someone and have it handed to you. Also, trial and erro might help. Learn the commands the best you can from whatever resources you have, then just jump in and start trying to use them in combination with each other to learn what effects each command has and how they work together. I don't think any one person can really tell you how to do it all whther it's 2D or 3D, everyone has their methods to how they program. It's just a matter of what works for you. Up to you though, just speaking from experience. Start small, and go big.
BearCDPOLD
20
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Joined: 16th Oct 2003
Location: AZ,USA
Posted: 6th May 2005 18:39
Quote: "I think if you try to dive in too deep, too fast, you're gonna drown."


I'm a rescued drowner. Tried to make a halfway-decent first person shooter with mod capabilities. Had the engine design worked out too, just didn't have the right grasp on programming yet. I'm wishing now I would have tried smaller projects that were not technological wonders but possibly had deeper meaning to me than another <Insert Popular Game Here> clone. Look for Drew Cameron's Dumbo & Cool in the WIP board. Even something with gameplay as simple as that has a ton of code behind it.

Crazy Donut Productions
Current Project: A Redneck game
John H
Retired Moderator
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Location: Burlington, VT
Posted: 7th May 2005 03:31
When you code Pong, Space Invaders etc, your not just coding the game, your learning the language. Your learning the basic structures of loops, arrays, types (dbp only) cases, memblocks, variables, floats, globals (dbp only..maybe?) functions, if statements, everything needed to code ANY KIND OF GAME.

In learning how to code a simple program, you learn the skeleton of any kind of program.


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dlefik 2008
19
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Location: Spencerville, OH
Posted: 7th May 2005 10:28
Quote: "In learning how to code a simple program, you learn the skeleton of any kind of program.
"
Quote: "When you code Pong, Space Invaders etc, your not just coding the game, your learning the language. "
My point exactly. Well said!
Gil Galvanti
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Joined: 22nd Dec 2004
Location: Texas, United States
Posted: 7th May 2005 14:37
Quote: "Quote: "In learning how to code a simple program, you learn the skeleton of any kind of program.
"
Quote: "When you code Pong, Space Invaders etc, your not just coding the game, your learning the language. ""

And that is why i hate when people get mad at newbs for wanting to make a...hard-to-make game. Even if they dont finish it, they will learn what they did wrong, why they couldnt finish it, lots of the lanuage, and what they can do better next time.

Video games…they can take you places unreachable, impossible, unfeasible. They put you in the book...they put you in the movie...they put you in a world, a world that before could only be imagined.
hyrichter
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Joined: 15th Feb 2004
Location: Arizona
Posted: 8th May 2005 01:50
Yes, but wouldn't a noob feel better if he created a playable pong or space invaders game and learned that way than by a failed project? I learned the hard way by trying to create an FPS as my very first DB game. Looking back, I would've been happier creating a fun playable game.

Truth is I haven't actually ever FINISHED a complete game. I finished one level of my FPS and got sick of it. Prolly one of these days I'll just whip up a fun space-invaders game just to say I have a finished game.

Baggers
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Joined: 31st May 2004
Location: Yonder over dem dere hills
Posted: 8th May 2005 10:48
Gil : I only dissagree when its the type of newbies who start a hard project..so hard infact that they dont learn they just try to use other code snippets and help requests as pieces of a puzzle to try and make their game....and then fail, but havnt learned anything. Thats what has to be avoided.

I mean i started with a hard project i was doing a 3rd person shooter but i started by running on a randomized matrix and having a goblin chase me, thats the way to learn properly if you insist on a hard project. Work up...by the time i had to give up i had water, jumping shooting, first bits of AI, swimming, bubbles, level changing, and a level editor...the code was a mess though !

Evarcha
19
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Joined: 7th Jan 2005
Location: Preston, England
Posted: 10th May 2005 18:32
I thought I would add to this because I am guilty on a few counts of being an over enthusiastic would-be-programmer who's head is full of ideas. My point is this: I have searched the snippets and threads, I have cut and pasted and got things to work in a reasonable way through changing variable values and adding bits of things here's and there, but do I actually understand it?

No.

I didn't realise just what a mess I was making until I sat down last night to make a simple text adventure and I was absolutely out of my depths. Today I am licking my wounds and glad I am still enthusiastic about programming and game making because I spent hours just trying to make what I thought were simple things. I am guilty of rushing and trying to take on too much and actually learning very little. I know I am setting myself up to ridicule by posting this but I would hope that there are a few people out there who can't quite get the whole programming thing and are making the same mistakes I made...my advice will be STOP! I am going to take apart that damned pong game and I WILL understand it!!

I am also guilty of being pig headed enough to think I could jump in and swim before even learning the actual techniques needed to swim.

So heed a warning from someone who's made that mistake for the last time and is actually going to learn something today.

Thanks
Evarcha
RUCCUS
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Location: Canada
Posted: 14th May 2005 06:12
You say you don't want to here the popular "Make a pong game" or Pac Man or something along those lines, and then you say you want to learn what you'll need to make the action packed commercial quality games. I think you're confused.

If you were to make pong, you would gain the knowledge of how to move objects in a 3D area, how to make objects react on collision, how to use the keyboard to control things, how to use variables for scores, and how to use dynamic angles for moving objects correctly according to the angle.

So...what action packed games are you thinking of that dont involve moving objects with the keyboard, collision detection (sliding collision...), variables for scores (amount of kills, wins, losses, head shots, etc.) and angles (physics in movement of vehicles, sliding collision again and moving the camera about.

Thus, make pong.

Zotoaster
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Location: Scotland
Posted: 14th May 2005 23:47
i could make u a tutorial for a pong game if you want

Your signature has been erased by a mod because it's larger than 600x120...
Don Malone
21
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Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Posted: 16th May 2005 02:39
Programming is a lot like baseball. You can go out and play and enjoy yourself. But when you learn the basics and fundamentals; everything gets a little easier and you may even be able to play better.

There is a great Pong tutorial (A 2D game represented with 3D objects) on the Newcomers board, and I highly reccomend you at least read through it.
The concepts are well presented and are tweakable to help in learning the basics.

When you learn the basics, you can work out most issues or problems you may face; or at least have the basic understanding to get the advice and help you need. DarkBasic is a very powerful tool if you know what you are doing. The proof is in the Program Announcment forum.

I promise you. The basics will serve you well.

Wasting CPU Cycles since the 286 was a hot machine.
John Avon
19
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Joined: 12th Apr 2005
Location: Avon Indiana USA
Posted: 16th May 2005 23:00
I’m just like you, but came to realize DBP will take bit of time to learn. In my 1st month I spent up to 26 hours straight trying to learn. I’m happy I changed my mind in 4 or 5 week. I’ve finally began to study 3D objects after skipping sound and video for the time being.
I’m glad I read your post . I’m going to study the pong game recommended to you. After that I may try a simple FPS maze ambush game If I feel like it’s time to try. 16 years ago I used GW basic and DB beats the devil out of it, and is most likely worth the time it will take to learn.
I’m old and slow. I think if you can write something in a year or so that you like then you’ve done ok. What the hell I’ve seen speed courses advertised on this site that take 21 months. Be patient. JG. Bye the way I’ll have do a lot of reviewing as I did not try to apply the code I’ve studied to a game. I only broke it down for porpoises of understanding. LUCK.

JohnGillespie
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 18th May 2005 08:44
My advice as most people have been picking at is, start with something simple, something you can do, and use that as a foundation of a program, build around it, add new commands to it to make it more flashy, then just keep adding more until you can't think of anything else, then you should be a better programmer, then just start again with something harder, then after a while you'll get good, then you'll be making games.

My foundatition was a walking cube on a matrix, I've extended the idea more and more, now its the engine for my game ronin (of course due to windows crappyness I've had to remember source code to redo it, but its still basicly the same as it was originally)
That walking cube has also made a scene on a matrix as an island with water that you cannot walk off of, a battle system (obviously no walking) and a cube walking and talking in a village.
Of course picking something as complex as a game to learn from has taken a long time, so I wouldn't do that, maybe a text editor? or pong as suggested (you could make it, and build on it by improving it)

And welcome to the 3D game making world, just be patient and you'll get what you want quickly in game making

http://seppukuarts.dbspot.com
Ronin is back on production yey!!
Computer Nerd
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Location: What do you care?
Posted: 22nd May 2005 08:33
I'm a noob, and I know not to start big like making the next halo or
something. I want to start small, and make small crappy games to learn
DarkBasic. Sure I have my big ideas, I come up with a game idea almost
every day. I just want to learn to make pong and stuff to learn Darkbasic. Always start small, before Unreal Epic made zzt, before
doom 3 id software made commander keen, and before all those awesome
games Apogee made Adventure Game Pak or something. I need help too,
I'd like help with understanding and making things in DarkBasic.
The tutorials I read nearly made my brain explode with confusion
and what thes?

Soon to get Dark Basic
D18AGON
19
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Posted: 13th Sep 2005 11:10
Ok, that's all good advice guys thanks. I've found someone to do the coding for my game for me now and I have my hands full with getting the animating to work in DBC now. Not that I no longer want to learn how to code for myself, It's just that I want to get my first game made anyway possible, I still have done most of the work on the modeling and animating and game design though which is at least half of the game. I'l have a look at the code when it's finished and see how much I can understand or even apply to other projects. Maybe I will make a pong game or something, but it will have to be the best dam pong game ever for me to feel like its worth it, if you know what I mean? lol.

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