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Geek Culture / POLL - Female leads in RPG's - please give opinion

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Sephnroth
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Posted: 31st May 2005 10:14
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Dunno if this belongs in game design or general, but I guess it will get more views in general and im really hoping for alot of responses.

Some of you may of seen the RPG hybrid I have been working on lately. My original intent has been to cast the lead roll to a female character, Bella.

Now I was just flaunting off some early concept art of her to a friend (sorry, too early for these forums ) and the first thing he said was "your casting the lead as a girl?"

I said yup. He says isnt that a little unusual for the genre? I said yes, exactally. I see no reason why zelda cant go save link now and then. From there we started up a big discussion. His primary worry was that the RPG audiance is largely male and the main attraction to the genre is the huge bond you end up devloping with your avatar (the character).

I countered with I could see no problem, the guys should be happy due to the.. um, pleasent sight infront of them and the girls should be happy that their gender got the lead roll rather than the "oh! please save me! *BOSSOM SHAKE*" side role which are generally there just to give the main guy something to do. My friend had no problem with any of that, but worried that
"But the stories tend to be very oriented towards blokes; damsels-in-distress, coming of age, gangs and territory etc.

So what you have in an RPG is a male player adopting a male avatar and playing through a story aimed, broadly, at males. I don't know how well that would work with a girl avatar.
"

I countered again refrancing the simularity between rpgs and books and how immersive books can be and listed various ones i got deeply engrossed in with female leads. Also pointed out the attraction of the bond you devlop with the character, the care about them, their plight and their goals and the desire to see these through to success etc. After a few moments thought he said:

"Hmm. As I think more about it, I think it matters less. It's worked just fine in other genres, after all."

But it did leave me wondering. I had won him over, but will this be the intial reaction of all my other potential players who I wont be there to reason with? This is where you guys come in - your opinion and a simple vote please.

I would like you to say either "I would be happy with a female lead" or "I would prefer a male lead in an rpg" and, if its ok, please state wether you are male or female as I think that its important for me to try and get a grasp on the opinions of both genders here. I had hoped these forums had a poll thing like lots of others so i could give im male/female in the vote options and retain your annominity.. but i cant, so if you DONT want to disclose your sex please state that you dont want to say.

Thanks, this should turn out interesting.

[07:16:59-pm] « Sephnroth » you were dreaming about lee...
[07:17:13-pm] « Mouse » stfu
[07:17:22-pm] « Mouse » he was hanging himself lol
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Benjamin
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Posted: 31st May 2005 10:39
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Didn't FFX-2 feature female lead characters?


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Eric T
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Posted: 31st May 2005 10:40
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Yeah, but wasn't FFX-2 also one of the worst games to come out of square?

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Sephnroth
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Posted: 31st May 2005 10:41
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Yes, very good point. Although ffx-2 was certainly different in ALOT of ways. Female lead (full female cast x_X) jazz music, mission based play, real time battles by default (well, kind of) combo system, everything was funked up and "hip" - and im nto sure quite how popular it was.

Anyhoo, come on guys.. 17 views and one reply? This is important to me ;-;

[07:16:59-pm] « Sephnroth » you were dreaming about lee...
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Eric T
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Posted: 31st May 2005 10:45
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Personally, I don't care what i'm playing as in an RPG. Hell, I have 1 male and one female in guild wars. I also at one point had a female in Morrowind. So theres really no big problem with playing females IMO.

That said, I have noticed that all the females I have played as have had enormous bust sizes (that was a joke, laugh)

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John H
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Posted: 31st May 2005 10:56
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*laughs*

Want to hear something real crazy? The main antagonist of Eternal Destiny is a Woman! *shock* *horror* Who knew women could be EVIL!!! (thats a joke, laugh)


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Benjamin
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Posted: 31st May 2005 11:33
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Quote: "Want to hear something real crazy? The main antagonist of Eternal Destiny is a Woman! *shock* *horror* Who knew women could be EVIL!!! (thats a joke, laugh)"




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GothOtaku
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Posted: 31st May 2005 12:21
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I think casting a woman as the lead role is an excellent idea. If you look at what games women play most women gamers only play RPGs so to get that market would be a great idea.
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BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 31st May 2005 12:39
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Cast the female. The world will be a better place because of it. Shadow Hearts Covenant had a female lead, I think.

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SageTech
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Posted: 31st May 2005 14:02
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Quote: " I see no reason why zelda cant go save link now and then."


Actully that was a game, one of those crappy ones made by sony becouse nintindo gave them the rights to the charachters. Zelda went to save Link. (of course the game was a piece of dogpoo)

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Mr Underhill
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Posted: 31st May 2005 14:28
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*Off-topic*
Quote: "Actully that was a game, one of those crappy ones made by sony becouse nintindo gave them the rights to the charachters. Zelda went to save Link. (of course the game was a piece of dogpoo)"

Wha? When was that?

*On-topic*
Go ahead and cast the lead as a girl. I'm sure alot of people don't really care what gender they play as, as long as the story and/or gameplay aren't hampered. If you're really worried about audience, give the option to play as a male or female -best of both worlds

I pity the fool who thinks 1337 is cool!

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Neofish
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Posted: 31st May 2005 20:34
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I actualy play most games with a female character, not due to the appearance, google images has a perfectly fine feature for that i guess it's because i don't like the uber masculine characters and it gives me a chance to play as a different gender...i live my life as a boy why not play as a girl? I think that makes sense...

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Kentaree
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Posted: 31st May 2005 20:41
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While in games where you get the choice of the 2 genders I tend to play as the male (call it chauvinism ), I have no problem whatsoever with a female lead character, and don't think it will/should make or break a game. While there's always going to be narrowminded people who take offense because they feel its wrong, I don't see what the big fuss is.

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Avan Madisen
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Posted: 31st May 2005 20:56
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The original Phantasy star from Sega had a female lead character, Alys, Phantasy star 4 had a female primary character as well, and don't forget Star Wars: KOTOR had Bastilla as a primary character.

Story of Thor on the old Mega Drive had a female antagonist, although you only really meet her right at the end, the game was designed so you'd think it was actually a man until they finally revealed who it was.

I personnally, don't consider the gameplay when you're choosing your characters, only consider the story! Because if the character doesn't work in the context of the story, the story element of the game won't work.

Consider this, the female playable character in Fable was scrapped because there were a lot of gameplay elements (such as having children, which was eventually scrapped as well) complicated the gameplay. If I was developing the game, I would've left the female character in!

I almost always play female characters in RPG's when I have the choice, why? I don't entirely know, I just seem to find playing as a man in a lot of games a bit boring. But then again, in Neverwinter Nights I find the image of a female halfling beating up dragons somewhat fun!

My only complain is the 'Lara Croft' women in games, characters who are designed to appeal to a 'certain any of the male market', I find those characters boring and unimaginative. Plus they're unrealistic, since when has anyone seen a busty woman performing gymnastics without the unbalancing effect of the OTT 'upper body weight'?

What I'm trying to say, Sephnroth, is I love to see female lead characters in games, but I advise you to find ways of making your female characters appealing without using their anatomy!

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Sephnroth
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Posted: 31st May 2005 23:42
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Right, thankyou all for your reponses

I'll continue with the female lead. Obviously the story will revolve around her so I see no reason why it shouldnt fit, but then again it could easilly fit a guy too so meh.

and dont worry, shes no lara XD She's just an adverage girl when it comes to proportions, but cute in her own way (I hope x_X). I'm going to take 4-5 hours out today to finish her concept and hopfully will have it in the wip forum later.

thanks everyone ^^

[07:16:59-pm] « Sephnroth » you were dreaming about lee...
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Teh Go0rfmeister
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i think its important to keep the leading role male, since as your friend said, most gamers are male anmd like to feel with their avatar, however, having a saucy chick makes the game more attractive, like lara croft did for tomb raider. In the RPG which im making the terrain editor for, the secondary lead is female, and theres a strong emotional bond between the 2 characters and the player.
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DARKGuy
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Posted: 1st Jun 2005 01:15
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Quote: "Who knew women could be EVIL!!! (thats a joke, laugh)"

*laughs, watches sister destroy computer, dies*

Anyhow, looking at your first post...hey, why not? I mean, I've seen some games where females are the lead and they're good (some PSX RPGs) so why not? besides... gotta be original, no? breakin' the patterns is one of those ways, right? I mean, look at Half Life, everyone always thought FPS were just shootin' 'n stuff, HL made it narrative, with a story, and you were part in it, talked to people and stuff, instead of just shooting around, it broke a pattern, why can't you?

P.S.: Yay for originality
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Flindiana Jones
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Posted: 1st Jun 2005 01:18
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I see no problem with female lead...

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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 1st Jun 2005 01:46
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There's 3 main female characters in Diablo II.

Not to mention games like Dungeon Siege and Neverwinter nights, and WoW let you customize your lead character and lotsa people make female characters.

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Damokles
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Well it could also be a parody. Just imagine these elements in the roleplay (all stereotypes) :
- Your rival has bought the same dress as you (HORROR !)
- Your friends say bad things about you to other people.
- The store didn't have that specific dress you wanted since a long time.
- Every 28 days you have difficulties to control your character.
- ....

- Mind the gap -
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Drew Cameron
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Posted: 1st Jun 2005 03:00
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Go for a female character!
The main character in my game is female. (Dumbo)

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Jimmy
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Posted: 1st Jun 2005 03:01
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I like it when female's lead.

But that is because I am a weak man.




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David R
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Posted: 1st Jun 2005 03:04
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Quote: "The main character in my game is female. (Dumbo)"


Yes, but it could be said you are trying to stereotype women as being stupid (hence 'dumbo'). Work you way out of that one! The world's law will crush you! Squirm!

(j/king)

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Drew Cameron
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Posted: 1st Jun 2005 03:08 Edited at: 1st Jun 2005 03:08
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Actually, it's Dumbow - I'm changing the name next week because I don't want to get in trouble with Disney.

So she is no longer dumb. Also, Cool is actually the stupid one.

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DARKGuy
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Posted: 1st Jun 2005 03:10
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Quote: "
I like it when female's lead.
But that is because I am a weak man.
"


LOL!

Females rock anyways Tomb Raider had a female and she's like wow, FFX-2 had too, Diablo II too, Skies of Arcadia too, sorta, and other games... OMG, Ridge Racer!
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Ace Of Spades
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Posted: 1st Jun 2005 03:19
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Quote: "Tomb Raider had a female and she's like wow"


You DO realise its just a 3D model and not an actual person?


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Neofish
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Posted: 1st Jun 2005 03:22
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SHE'S NOT??!!??!!!!!!one


Damned caps limits....

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Jimmy
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Posted: 1st Jun 2005 03:24
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Leys, he's talking about the movie, of course.


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Benjamin
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Posted: 1st Jun 2005 03:24
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Quote: "You DO realise its just a 3D model and not an actual person?"

Thats what I find incredibly sad about people.


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Ace Of Spades
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Posted: 1st Jun 2005 03:59
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Quote: " Leys, he's talking about the movie, of course."


Well considering the topic is about rpg's, i doubt it. But if that IS the case, I would have to agree.


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Jimmy
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Posted: 1st Jun 2005 04:01
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Ha

But what's the difference really? Have you ever met Anjelina Jolie in person? She's just as fake in that movie as that 3D model. I prefer the model, well actually I prefer DARKGuy, but elaborating would be


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Ace Of Spades
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Posted: 1st Jun 2005 04:12
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Quote: "She's just as fake in that movie as that 3D model."


Human vs. 3D rendering...

yea, i see your point, exactly the same.


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Neofish
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I don't think Leys has caught onto the point...I'll make it more clear:

Human vs Silicone

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Jimmy
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Posted: 1st Jun 2005 04:21 Edited at: 1st Jun 2005 04:22
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silicone, makeup, lighting, special effects, editing

oh and bad acting.


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Neofish
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Bad acting makes porn better...

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Ian T
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I don't imagine it would make a whit of difference to me. As different as the sexes are, it honestly freaks me out how weird some people get about playing female characters in games.

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Eric T
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As long as the story is engrosing, there should be no problem with what gender the main is. Besides... jugs... (Just like Nixon was not a crook, I am not a sexist)

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Ian T
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I need a therapist to help me figure out why every female RPG character I play turns into a lesbian

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Eric T
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Its because you keep them at the fishery for 3 hours a day mouse.

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Ian T
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Cheap shot, that

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Benjamin
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And its slooowly slipping off topic.


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Megaton Cat
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You know what's better and more attractive then females in 3D video games and anime?

The real life ones. This may come as a shock to some of you.

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Fallout
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I think the gender is really important and should be based on your game. A few investigations:

Lara makes a good female character in tomb raider because it's about acrobatics and exploring. A male lead would've been ok too, but it would've had to have been some sorta little ninja. Some stocky bloke wouldn't have worked.

The barbarian in Severence HAD to be male. He had massive strength and spent a lot of time hacking off limbs with double handed swords. The theme here is violence and aggression.

I think in something like May Payne, you could have a female or male. It's a combination between the stylised movement and gun play which isn't really too synonymous with any sex, although probably leans more towards the male. Thinks like the matrix etc. have given women more of an action / martial arts / gun fighting presence.

I think it comes down to what you're character is doing. If you want the player to feel tough and like a powerful hand to hand warrior, I don't think you can go with the female character. Personally, it wouldn't work for me. If there's lots of exploring and interaction (charisma required!) female leads could be really good.

At the end of the day, I think a role with a majority of masculine requirements (violence, aggression, strength) needs a male lead. Something with a lot of diplomacy, talking, exploring, (maybe pole dancing) definitely benefits from a female lead, as they automatically have a sense of having an edge on all those things. If it's half way inbetween with not too many of the masculine influences, I think you can go either way.

If you go female, make her sexy though. Stop all these 14 year old physique rubbish! Give her big tits and a filthy voice!

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Benjamin
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Posted: 1st Jun 2005 06:17
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Quote: "Give her big tits and a filthy voice!"

You mean like Mouse?


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Zone Chicken
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Posted: 1st Jun 2005 08:03
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Quote: "I would like you to say either "I would be happy with a female lead" or "I would prefer a male lead in an rpg""


I wouldn't prefer either as long as the game was good.
There are several games that had female leads that where missed.

Metroid / Samus
Bloodrayne 1 and 2 / Rayne
Buffy the vampire slayer 1 and 2 / Buffy,willow, and faith
Resident Evil 0 to Outbreak / Jill/Rebecca/Claire/Cindy/Yoko Probablly more just can't remember them
Rogue Ops / Nikki
Clock Tower 3 / Alyssa

thats just a couple of the games i have that feature female characters in leads, so nope i guess female leads don't bother me.

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Drew Cameron
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Posted: 1st Jun 2005 21:49 Edited at: 1st Jun 2005 21:51
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Quote: "Thing is that female characters take more to develope"


Yeah, I couldn't agree more with all of that. All people want females to do is look pretty and do evocative stuff, which is a shame.

Quote: "sterotypes are nothing but to keep them down"


True as well.

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Drew Cameron
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Posted: 1st Jun 2005 21:51 Edited at: 1st Jun 2005 21:51
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Quote: "Thing is that female characters take more to develope"


Yeah, I couldn't agree more with all of that. All people want females to do is look pretty and do evocative stuff, which is a shame.

Quote: "sterotypes are nothing but to keep them down"


True as well.

About the only female character who wasn't a bimbo or a typical "a sexy, gun toting woman" kind of crap was Meryl in Metal Gear Solid - I was upset when she died. Although she was there as a sex interest for Snake, there was a lot of character, unlike Lara Croft, who stars in sh*t games.

Can't think of any others, sorry...

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Avan Madisen
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2005 07:46
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Quote: "All people want females to do is look pretty and do evocative stuff, which is a shame."

How about a game where the lead was the female version of Duke Nukem but with the action and shooting style of Max Payne, a love for fully automatic firearms and the physique of Callista Flokhart in her 20's?

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Drew Cameron
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I don't understand, sorry.

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BearCDPOLD
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Quote: "How about a game where the lead was the female version of Duke Nukem but with the action and shooting style of Max Payne, a love for fully automatic firearms and the physique of Callista Flokhart in her 20's?"


Hopefully in Perfect Dark Zero? I dunno....

Y'know a game with a good female character was Beyond Good and Evil. I also agree about Meryl, quality writing in that game. What I've played so far of Jade Empire has done a good job with Dawn Star (at least when I picked Furious Ming there was a woman named Dawn Star, I don't know what happens if you pick a female character).

Crazy Donut Productions
Current Project: A Redneck game
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