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Geek Culture / 1% are here illegally

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Philip
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Posted: 1st Jul 2005 07:49 Edited at: 1st Jul 2005 07:50
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/4637273.stm

According to official UK Government statistics, approximately 570,000 people are in the UK illegally, i.e. these people are continuing to reside in the UK without any legal right to remain in our country, usually after being ordered by lawful authority to depart.

This figure, horrifying though it is, does not include current asylum seekers, which Home Office figures says is at about 700,000.

Putting it another way, as the legal population of the UK is about 60m, about 1 person in every hundred people is here illegally, and altogether about 2 in every hundred people is either here illegally or is trying to say that they should be allowed to stay here for any number of (largely) bogus or (very occasionally) genuine reasons.

I regard this state of affairs as absolutely scandalous. 2 in a hundred? Christ! We might just as well install a revolving door and invite every passing punter who fancies the chance to live in the planet's fourth wealthiest country with a wonderfully generous welfare state system to damn well drop in for a permanent stay.

Its now very evident that we need draconian (i.e. Australian style) immigration policies, a low annual quota, and we need them immediately.

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Jimmy
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Posted: 1st Jul 2005 07:59
In the US it's like half.

Yeah, right about half population.

Mnemonix
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Posted: 1st Jul 2005 07:59
[rant]
I agree with you.

I have witnessed to my horror and sheer anger on multiple occasions in the Manchester area(suspecting other areas are similar) some oppression by the authorities of our rights as Britons because it causes "offence" to communities made up largely of asylum seekers. A good example is we lost the right to fly the England flag on St. Georges day. We were also forbidden to display the image of santa clause or other Christmas decoration in these communities because it offends them.

This is a serious issue and I agree that the Australians have the correct idea about immigration.

[/rant]

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Ian T
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Posted: 1st Jul 2005 08:08
I keep using the UK's current state as an example of why the US shouldn't have lax, unenforced immigration policies. People generally don't get it - 'but everyone's happy in England!'

One in fifty is pretty staggering by any standard. I agree with your conclusion.

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Baggers
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Posted: 1st Jul 2005 08:08
Quote: "A good example is we lost the right to fly the England flag on St. Georges day. We were also forbidden to display the image of santa clause or other Christmas decoration in these communities because it offends them."


[Mental Overload]
WHAT THE ****, that is simply ****ing insane...now im not one for text profanity (unless its against certain idiots) but that is outragous...im from the UK aswell but I had no idea that it was this bad in some areas.
I cant actualy form a sensible argument at this point so im going to go and steam for a while...
[/Mental Overload]

Philip
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Posted: 1st Jul 2005 08:10 Edited at: 1st Jul 2005 08:10
But thats not the worst of it. Oh no, there is another VERY SERIOUS issue which is actually causing me equal concern.

It is this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4637355.stm

I like 'em. The fact that they are in nose dive is a disaster.

I demand a political party that deals with both problems immediately.

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Ian T
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Posted: 1st Jul 2005 08:16


My family had a pet hedgehog once. He was quite happy for several years in his cage, though some kind of cancer got him eventually.

I've always had a soft spot for hedgehogs.

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Philip
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Posted: 1st Jul 2005 08:32
I bet they had a prickly spot for you.

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Dazzag
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Posted: 1st Jul 2005 09:33
Quote: "One in fifty is pretty staggering by any standard. I agree with your conclusion."
One in a hundred methinks (60m population). But yeah, takes the mick a bit. Feel so happy paying my amazing taxes.

Cheers

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Neil19533
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Posted: 1st Jul 2005 09:48
Being the moral conscience of this post, i disagree. When the English become illegal immigrants in other contries like autrallia and america(or reversed them comming here) it's ok, we/they are just sent on are merry way. But when it is middle easterns it suddenly becomes a big story inwhich are liberties are undermined. its just racist and no matter what you think it is as white english speaking people wouldnt raise an eyebrow.

but as a british person we must look at palistine and israil(however there spelt) that was once one contry where the jews decided to immigrate too and now they pracktically own the place and america are on there side. so is this what england will be like? taken over?

Any spelling mistakes are totally In tensional.
Mnemonix
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Posted: 1st Jul 2005 10:04
I am not in anyway being racist at all. If immigrants were willing to come over, and could prove they would be a benefit to us, or at the very least not a burden then I have little problem with that at all, whatever the race, gender, caste or creed.

If I wanted to emigrate to Australia, I would find it rather difficult to be accepted I would imagine.

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indi
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Posted: 1st Jul 2005 11:25
we stick them in camps in the desert for years until they drink bleachor they staple there mouths shut or stitch them together, or the UN growls at our government for human rights and we get token passports made for a few of them, that is presented on tv as propaganda crap.

the australian government has become a dictatorship, they can detain me for years without release without a valid reason now. fun fun fun.

if i speak out against something the government is doing here regarding so called "terrorism" i can be jailed for 5 years without a court hearing, its total bs if you ask me.

we have a very real inhuman immigration policy thats very cruel.

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qwe
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Posted: 1st Jul 2005 11:27
Quote: "invite every passing punter who fancies the chance to live in the planet's fourth wealthiest country with a wonderfully generous welfare state system to damn well drop in for a permanent stay.

Its now very evident that we need draconian (i.e. Australian style) immigration policies, a low annual quota, and we need them immediately."


it's obviously not hurting your country too bad if your country is as good as you say it is. why worry so much?

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Ian T
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Posted: 1st Jul 2005 11:53
Quote: "its just racist and no matter what you think it is as white english speaking people wouldnt raise an eyebrow."


It has nothing to do with race.

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 1st Jul 2005 18:14 Edited at: 1st Jul 2005 18:16
Its certainly a worry...
...that hedgehogs are indecline. What each councils need to do is do little underground passages for them.

Its also a worry there are people staying longer that they should be - and ID cards will help how ?

Oraculaca
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Posted: 1st Jul 2005 18:26 Edited at: 1st Jul 2005 18:27
Quote: "and ID cards will help how ?"


I was going to say because the immigrants couldnt afford them, but by the sound of it neither will we.


btw my sympathies to the hedgehog population.

adr
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Posted: 1st Jul 2005 18:30 Edited at: 1st Jul 2005 18:33
A coupla points

Mouse
Quote: "I keep using the UK's current state as an example of why the US shouldn't have lax, unenforced immigration policies"

Our argument against immigration is that "they" are abusing our welfare system. The US would push through more stringent immigration processes because of fear of "terrorism" - just a thought

Mnemonix
Quote: "If immigrants were willing to come over, and could prove they would be a benefit to us, or at the very least not a burden"

Why not start your crusade for "useful" people a little closer to home? Instead of purging 1 in 100 immigrants for not pulling their weight, start with the 20 or so in 100 native britons who are worthless bastards, sponging the system for all it's worth with their 8 useless kids claiming £40k a year or so.

I think our priorities are totally out of whack. If you can legitimately deport someone today, you can do it tomorrow. This problem will always exist, but to varying degrees. Basically what I'm saying is "you can sort out the immigration problem later" - lazy? me? Anyway, I think we should focus on the culture of people who seem to think that you don't have to work if you don't want to, because society will take care of you.

Hmm... sounded kinda right-wing there for a bit.

Oh, and with respect to hedgehogs, I had to swerve out of the way of a rabbit last night and woot, it survived! No rabbit street pizza! Am I helping?

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Rob K
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Posted: 1st Jul 2005 18:40
May I quote the last paragraph from the article:

Quote: "
But Danny Sriskandarajah, from the Institute for Public Policy Research, said: "Many of these people have probably entered the UK legally but have stayed on, often making important contributions to our economy." "


Personally, I support complete freedom of entry into and exit from the country. I believe that the current regulations mean that people can only get healthcare or other support from the government if they are British nationals, or if they have been working (and paying taxes) for a certain period of time, this seems reasonably fair to me. Inevitably there are some abuses of the system, but I imagine that the freeriders are only a small minority of those 'illegally' living here. The majority of entrants are economic migrants after all.

Where draconian immigration policies have been introduced in other countries, it has largely been with the aim of protecting domestic workers from competition for jobs and so on. I don't believe that domestic workers (and that would include myself in the case of the UK) should be entitled to such protection.


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Van B
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Posted: 1st Jul 2005 18:47
Quote: "A good example is we lost the right to fly the England flag on St. Georges day. We were also forbidden to display the image of santa clause or other Christmas decoration in these communities because it offends them."


That's shocking, personally I'd make it my business to issue flags on St.Georges (or St.Andrews) for free and dress as Santa throughout the year. If anything the asylum seekers should be flying the flag for us, that's if the want to appear in the least bit grateful for our hospitality. Some people work hard all their lives so they can retire in a better country (often so they can be with their family), some people just need a cival war to break out. I'm not un-sympathetic, but there's UK citizens that suffer more and asylum seekers have more benefits than a lot of us could hope for when we arrive on a countries doorstep.


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Mnemonix
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Posted: 1st Jul 2005 18:48
@adr


Quote: "
Why not start your crusade for "useful" people a little closer to home? Instead of purging 1 in 100 immigrants for not pulling their weight, start with the 20 or so in 100 native britons who are worthless bastards, sponging the system for all it's worth with their 8 useless kids claiming £40k a year or so.
"


Of course I agree with you. This problem to me is larger than the problem with immigration, but immigration is making it worse.

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empty
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Posted: 1st Jul 2005 18:59
Quote: "Personally, I support complete freedom of entry into and exit from the country. I believe that the current regulations mean that people can only get healthcare or other support from the government if they are British nationals, or if they have been working (and paying taxes) for a certain period of time, this seems reasonably fair to me. Inevitably there are some abuses of the system, but I imagine that the freeriders are only a small minority of those 'illegally' living here. The majority of entrants are economic migrants after all.

Where draconian immigration policies have been introduced in other countries, it has largely been with the aim of protecting domestic workers from competition for jobs and so on. I don't believe that domestic workers (and that would include myself in the case of the UK) should be entitled to such protection."

Very well put!


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Rob K
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Posted: 1st Jul 2005 19:17 Edited at: 1st Jul 2005 19:17
Quote: ""A good example is we lost the right to fly the England flag on St. Georges day. We were also forbidden to display the image of santa clause or other Christmas decoration in these communities because it offends them.""


This is a problem with the government, not the communities themselves though (I seriously doubt that they would raise objections to an English flag being flown). Philip may be able to expand on this, but I'm pretty sure that it would be illegal to try and enforce such rules anyway - since it would contravene human rights legislation.

A quick Google search found this somewhat amusing quote regarding Taxi cabs in Manchester a year back - which demonstrates that the problem is the government, not the migrants:

Quote: "The drivers, many of them Asian, have fixed flags to their cabs to back England in Euro 2004. But officials view the flags as adverts and anyone who defies the ban could lose their licence."


Quote: "Azad Hussain of Tiger Taxis said: "We have about 70 Asian and English drivers and quite a few have been flying the flag."

A Rochdale Liberal Democrat councillor, Zulfiqar Ali, supports the drivers. "



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BatVink
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Posted: 1st Jul 2005 19:45
It's a farce and a sham. We live in a society where the government is reactive to social issues, not proactive. Then it becomes a firefighting policy, rather than a solution to an upcoming problem.

Tories and Labour are as bad as each other. I'm sick of hearing "This all started when X was in power".

Tony Benn hit the nail on the head in a documentary last week...

Quote: "We don't live in a democratic society, we live in a managed society"."


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adr
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Posted: 1st Jul 2005 21:09
I want to sound like like Tony Benn. He has the coolest voice. Either him or Jean Reno.

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Neil19533
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Posted: 1st Jul 2005 22:29
About the ID cards, remember about half a year ago there was a guy who had that terrorist plot with ricin and he killed a police officer when they went to arrest him. he was arreseted a few years back but lied about his name, if we had them then he wouldnt be able to lie about his name and would of been deported. and in the future it will be used for medical records aswell and other things so it will make somethings much easier especially for cops who have to find out the names of people when they are lieing or give fake addresses ect.


there will always be illegal immigrants into the contry they provide cheap labour and do things us british wouldnt do. also about the illegal aliens being better of than some british that is because they are told how to get stuff for free. if a british person cant afford food because of bills then i doubt they will know who to ask to get free food or clothing ect.

I do think it was stupid that we whernt able to fly the flag, and i do think to live in britain they should respect are culture and they should embrace it, why should they be allowed inn if they want to live like they are at home?

Any spelling mistakes are totally In tensional.
Perokreco
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Posted: 1st Jul 2005 23:21
IMO you dont need to restrict your imigration policy but just to change so to allow people who are smart and have knowledge to enter like people with college and postgraduate and who can benefit your country and not allow bunch of people to enter and then work crappy jobs for bad salary and deny that place to citizen who needs to feed his family.I think New Zealand has similar policy, we tried to move there and they have a system of points, you need to have 29 of 31 point to get in, and points are awarded for education, age , health and so on.Unforunately we were ready to move and my dad got heart attack so i am still stuck here
Ian T
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2005 00:20
Quote: "IMO you dont need to restrict your imigration policy but just to change so to allow people who are smart and have knowledge to enter like people with college and postgraduate and who can benefit your country and not allow bunch of people to enter and then work crappy jobs for bad salary and deny that place to citizen who needs to feed his family."


So let in the well educated, middle-aged middle class and shut those who have not had the benefit of education in their country, the children, and the eldery out? I can't think of anything more inhumane.

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Mnemonix
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2005 00:33
Mouse is right, what we need is a balance between the two. People who come in just to abuse our benefits system should be kicked out. If people will come here and work then fair enough, they should be allowed to stay. We should put our country right as it is, before allowing more problems to develop.

My two cents, im not very good at this kind of thing so meh.

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BatVink
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2005 02:36
There's less work to be had in this country now anyway, all IT and call centre jobs are slowly being "offshored".

This in itself is akin to Slave labour. Western companies, in a bid to increase profits, employ people with lower standards of living for a fraction of the salary. DO NOT BE FOOLED...these companies are already making a profit, they are not doing this to survive, they are employing poorer people for less money in order to increase their own profits.

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Perokreco
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2005 03:44
Quote: "
So let in the well educated, middle-aged middle class and shut those who have not had the benefit of education in their country, the children, and the eldery out? I can't think of anything more inhumane."


No, let in young smart people who are wiling to work hard
the_winch
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2005 03:46 Edited at: 2nd Jul 2005 03:52
Quote: "That's shocking, personally I'd make it my business to issue flags on St.Georges (or St.Andrews) for free and dress as Santa throughout the year."


I'm convinced such stuff is brought about by people who have an intrest in there being tension between the communities.

Quote: "IMO you dont need to restrict your imigration policy but just to change so to allow people who are smart and have knowledge to enter like people with college and postgraduate and who can benefit your country and not allow bunch of people to enter and then work crappy jobs for bad salary"


It's better to have imigrants working crappy low paid jobs in this country and have them spend part of their pay in our economy. Don't let the workers come to the jobs and the jobs will go to the workers.
The whole process weeds out a lot of the bad ones anyway. When you think of what they do to actually get into this country. They leave the country they where born in with little money and travel to a country they have only heard of where everybody speaks a different language. Most of them are determined and resource full otherwise they wouldn't get into the country in the first place.
Plus only letting in the well educated removes the whole humanitarian side of the issue.

Quote: "This in itself is akin to Slave labour. Western companies, in a bid to increase profits, employ people with lower standards of living for a fraction of the salary. DO NOT BE FOOLED...these companies are already making a profit, they are not doing this to survive, they are employing poorer people for less money in order to increase their own profits."


The first few may be doing it to increase profits but after that everyone else has no choice. How can you compete on price when your wage costs are several times higher?
The jobs do not allways have a negative impact on the people who end up with them. If done propably they can have a positive effect on the community and still keep the company competetive on price.
Without the jobs what chance does the third world have? Do you really want to condem them to an eternaty of poverty and miserable short lives?
Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2005 04:20 Edited at: 2nd Jul 2005 04:30
i'm sorry, but saying 1% of us is here illegally... 1% must be such a blown up figure.

so saying i am aquanted with around lots and lots of school friends, friends of friends, relatives, friends of relatives, people i randomly know since they live near me... and you're saying some of them are illegal immigrants? i dont know any illegal immigrants.

its probably some satistic that:
a) the news papers made up to say our government's crap at handling immigration.
b) the government made up to justify the need for ID cards.

edit: and you also need to take into account how it was worked out. It was an extremely rough estimate taken from counting the ammount of people in the UK minus the ammount of students, workers and others claiming benefits...

it was probably as whimsical as when the rigger's decided who was allowed to vote and who wasnt by saing what category they fell into, ie prisoners, people who shared the same names as prisoners, certain ethnic groups etc...

or at least, thats how the story says it was in the US, i wasnt there.
Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2005 04:34
excuse double post, but im looking at this from a 2nd perspective now:

since when should we care about illegal immigrants. for as long as they're here illegally they cant claim benefits like assylum seekers can (not that i have a problem with asylum seekers).

its not as if they've come here for a life of crime either. if someone steals something, whether he's illegally here or not wont matter as to whether he gets caught or not.

we allow chavs to roam around the streets causing trouble, yet if someone pulls up to the shores on a rubber dinghy he's a criminal.

wheres the justice people?
Raven
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2005 08:26
Quote: "I'm convinced such stuff is brought about by people who have an intrest in there being tension between the communities."


A local Landlord sent in a request to stay open as long as he did on St. Patricks day on St. Georges day and was denied.

The reason is that only St. Patricks and Chinese New Years, are seen as valid holidays.

It is illegal to have any business open after 4pm on a Sunday, unless you can find a legal presidence that you should be exempt from the Christian/Jewish bound law.

If someone reports to the police that a flag is being flown that they feel offended by, even if it is a Georges Cross or Royal Britannia (in England) then the police will request that you take it down.

This is a small sample of issues that while can be twisted to being 'anti-cultural' are quite standard things that have been so for decades. Although I really don't agree with them, they've been in place longer than people have been trying to seek residence here.

Quote: "It's better to have imigrants working crappy low paid jobs in this country and have them spend part of their pay in our economy. Don't let the workers come to the jobs and the jobs will go to the workers."


Actually this is something I am against. Right now while you can claim that our economy is suffering as a result, the fact remains that we don't have the same style of credit system in-place (or budget) that the United States has in order for students to finance thier way through college, university, etc..

With the fact that unless you do have a fair bit of money behind you it does take away the whole insentive to do well if you can never really achieve anything with your life. For Assylm seekers to then come into the country and take the unskilled working jobs that make up the majority of thie countries work-force, all under the presidence of being 'equal oppertunity work' .. well I feel this is wrong.

Another thing I find wrong is that our government will sponser people from other nations to school in our universities on scholarship, yet what you have to achieve within our own nation to be awarded such a thing is beyond ridiculous. As it is not just a case of good grade but being some hyped-up over-achiever. Like your awarded for being a friendless anarak.

From my perspective, this country is economically in trouble no matter how the government wish to spin it. They are constantly showing they have no faith in the internal industries, or even the people of the nation they're suppose to be serving.

Do I blame the Assylm Seekers that we have over 10x the rate going into every other European Country combined? No, I squarely blame the government.

As was mentioned above they take a back-hand approach to everything.
So rather than kicking out someone who is likely to sponge; they wait until they've done wrong then let months of bearacracy take over. They don't scale the number of jobs that our younger society on how many seekers will be allowed access.

To me, it is more important that the low-end jobs are available to those who are going to be the future of this nation. If these people are going to come to the UK to work, then fine... put them to work in areas that they are needed.

We don't need another 100 corner-shops, or tandori resturants. We need Medical Staff, we need Police Officers, we need Public Transport Staff.

If they people are comming to us unskilled wanting to make a life for themselves, then give them a skill; and put them to work in areas that people are needed that generally speaking those in our own shores seem to shy away from. Let them realise that if they're going to shirk at school they'll never earn as much as those who've taken the effort to get into this country rather than taken the right for granted.

Benjamin
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2005 10:34
Well said Raven.


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Ian T
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2005 10:59
Quote: "This in itself is akin to Slave labour. <snip> they are employing poorer people for less money in order to increase their own profits."


I might be missing part of the point here Vink, but isn't this just simple economics? The people willing to work the hardest for the least money get better jobs. And since these people offshore would be far worse off without those jobs... well, it seems fair to me.

Quote: "No, let in young smart people who are wiling to work hard"


That's a different way of phrasing the same thing. You're saying let in people in the right age and skill range and for the others -- too bad, they stand no chance.

I believe any country needs a firm immigration policy, but discrimination is a rather repulsive way to handle it.

Quote: "Without the jobs what chance does the third world have? Do you really want to condem them to an eternaty of poverty and miserable short lives?"


I agree with the basic concept here.

I believe we're in a transitional stage while a world that was fully segregated by physical distance twenty years ago morphs into a world where space hinders very little. Obviously the economic unbalance between countries makes it difficult for some, but eventually the global economy will level itself out from this.

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jlb1987
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Posted: 5th Jul 2005 00:15
Quote: "According to official UK Government statistics, approximately 570,000 people are in the UK illegally, i.e. these people are continuing to reside in the UK without any legal right to remain in our country, usually after being ordered by lawful authority to depart.

This figure, horrifying though it is, does not include current asylum seekers, which Home Office figures says is at about 700,000.

Putting it another way, as the legal population of the UK is about 60m, about 1 person in every hundred people is here illegally, and altogether about 2 in every hundred people is either here illegally or is trying to say that they should be allowed to stay here for any number of (largely) bogus or (very occasionally) genuine reasons.

I regard this state of affairs as absolutely scandalous. 2 in a hundred? Christ! We might just as well install a revolving door and invite every passing punter who fancies the chance to live in the planet's fourth wealthiest country with a wonderfully generous welfare state system to damn well drop in for a permanent stay.

Its now very evident that we need draconian (i.e. Australian style) immigration policies, a low annual quota, and we need them immediately.


Cheer if you like bears! Cheer if you like jam sandwiches!
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Haven't read the whole of this thread, but I agree- it is frightening. Also, quite disgusting. I genuinly do feel sorry for people who are forced to flee their country because of poverty and/or a power mad dictator, but still... it annoys me that they are just flooding to the UK. It's impossible to be patriotic now, becuase there is nothing to be patriotic about. For example, the Zimbabweians who fled their home country becuase of mewgabe... I think that, while they should not be sent back to Zimbabwe because they would without a doubt be in danger, they should be sent somewhere that isn't the UK where they would be allowed to stay LEGALLY. The LAW is there for a reason- unfortuently it is being ignored by liberals, the illegal immigrants, and hell, even the government saying "oh, lets just let a FEW more people stay here". It disgusts me and I know this is going to annoy a few people at the least, I think that we should shut down our borders completly and guard them with force, and chuck out all illegal immigrants in the UK right now. There is already a housing and unemployment problem- this could be solved by getting rid of anyone who is not meant to be here.

I realise this is going to irritate a few people, but please, if you're just going to have a go at me without any valid points, e-mail me rather than vent your anger on here. Better still, vent that anger out somewhere else. I am not a racist- just someone who thinks the law should be aherred by, and who dislikes damn liberals who think it is a free country. It's most certainly not.

"We dads have a saying- You can't fix it 'til you've broken it." Brian Johnson.
Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 5th Jul 2005 04:46
Quote: "it annoys me that they are just flooding to the UK"


typical arrogant, ignorant (i call it agnorant) brit. the "omg, we get it all worse than everyone else in the world even though we're the best omgzor!" phrase comes to mind, usually said by someone who has no idea of the world past the english channel.

they aren't just flooding the UK. to be honest, the UK is probably the last place assylum seekers try to run to. If you look at immigration statistics, you'll find that refugees actually try to get to the nearest safe country possible, normally next door countries, or even the ones invading if its the easiest to flee to. if refused access there, they'll pass through to the next nearest country.

Hence why western europe, especially the UK and ireland are the last places refugees flee to. its too far to travel. when you've just lost your home, the last thing you want to do is go to the other side of the world to find a new one, especially if once the wars over and you do plan on returning (which im sure 99% of refugees do), and dont want to have to make the journey back again.

bottom line:

refugees like short journeys. Uk is normally too far.
Nemo
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Location: Bangor, Northern Ireland
Posted: 7th Jul 2005 00:12
Hi chaps,
I have nothing to say on asylum but the issue of flags is interesting.
In my country there are a small group of sectarian weirdoes who delight in waving flags at each other and its perfectly legal. One side of the community even goes so far as to march through the other sides areas banging drums AND waving flags in addition to painting absolutely everything red white and blue in their own areas. It all kicks off around this time of year so you can catch the bbcni news for the next couple of weeks if you want to see the results of this behaviour.
There is a place called the west link where there is a huge tricolour (southern Irish flag) that covers practically the whole side of a tower block and that's been there for as long as I can remember.

I come from a very bigoted protestant family who bang on constantly about how great it is that everyone gets their union jacks out at this time of year and you really wouldn’t believe the nonsense they talk about patriotism.
I consider myself to be very patriotic to Northern Ireland but I have never felt the need to wave a flag around. I rabidly support the football team (and any other person or people from here that compete internationally), I sing the praises of our country at every opportunity, I oppose a united Ireland simply because my beloved Northern Ireland would no longer exist. I even pretend that Liam Neeson is a brilliant actor just because he is from here.
This is what patriotism is, not an allegiance with a particular government, religious community or ethnic group but simply a desire to see all of my countrymen do well and represent us with pride.

The best part is that the flag flyers of my country who say they do it out of patriotism are often the same lot who burn people out of their homes because they are the wrong colour. They are confused between patriotism and white supremacy.

A flag means nothing, flying a flag in this country is not a sign of patriotism, its the sign of a mindless idiot.

I don’t know if much of this even translates across the water to mainland Britain never mind the rest of the world but that’s how I feel about it.

In the future we will not spank the monkey, the monkey will spank us.
Arkheii
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Location: QC, Philippines
Posted: 7th Jul 2005 22:37
Quote: "We were also forbidden to display the image of santa clause or other Christmas decoration in these communities because it offends them."


Haha. South Park
Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 8th Jul 2005 01:59
wouldn't you be pretty sick of the union jack if you'd just come from a country which was once slaved by the british empire?

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