Sorry your browser is not supported!

You are using an outdated browser that does not support modern web technologies, in order to use this site please update to a new browser.

Browsers supported include Chrome, FireFox, Safari, Opera, Internet Explorer 10+ or Microsoft Edge.

DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / About DB Pro's development...

Author
Message
Keaz
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Sep 2003
Location: Somewhere in south Texas
Posted: 3rd Jul 2005 07:30
Link
Well I've been looking at the developer diaries and noticed Mike is working on a new physics addition to DBPro. Now the question I have is "Why?" Before you answer the reason I ask is NGC can be bought bundled with DBPro is a physics expansion necessary? They way I see it is this is going to make users like myself have to choose between one or the other. Now I'm not arguing with new free commands, but would a redo of the GUI. (You could start from scratch and remake it similar to the way it is, so you do have the code.) Or better yet finish filling in the documentation, fixing the bugs, and completing half done commands.
These I would think would be the priority for a developer before new physics toys.

Breaking Stuff=Fun!,Bug Testing<>Fun!, Bug Testing=Breaking Stuff, so...
Bug Testing=Fun! Hmmmm....
DOES NOT COMPUTE! SYSTEM MALFUNTION!
Back to top
Profile PM Email
OSX Using Happy Dude
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Aug 2003
Location: At home
Posted: 3rd Jul 2005 07:35
Link
Its currently for the FPSC - I dont think its been decided whether if will be availiable for DBPro yet.

Quote: "completing half done commands"

And what "half done" commands are you talking about ?


Atomz is at http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~nickk
http://spaces.msn.com/members/BouncyBrick/
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Keaz
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Sep 2003
Location: Somewhere in south Texas
Posted: 3rd Jul 2005 07:41
Link
A quote from Mike's diary:
Quote: "The work I'm doing for DB Pro is all very exciting indeed - we are working on integrating a top class physics engine. In just a few simple command calls you can have all kinds of interesting scenarios up and running and get very fast, realistic physics simulations."

http://developer.thegamecreators.com/?m=diary&eid=1698

As far as half done commands well.. the first one that come's to mind is statistic()
From the help:
Quote: "This command will return an internal statistic from the engine. Providing a value of one as the parameter will cause the command to return the current number of polygons used to render the scene."


Best I can tell the number of polygons is the only statistic you can get returned...

Plus the documentation as it has been well noted is rather lacking.

Breaking Stuff=Fun!,Bug Testing<>Fun!, Bug Testing=Breaking Stuff, so...
Bug Testing=Fun! Hmmmm....
DOES NOT COMPUTE! SYSTEM MALFUNTION!
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Keaz
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Sep 2003
Location: Somewhere in south Texas
Posted: 3rd Jul 2005 07:47 Edited at: 3rd Jul 2005 14:57
Link
Also as far as the help goes...

statistic() - Need a list of them (if there are more)
SET BLEND MAPPING ON Object Number, Image Number, Blend Mode - What are the blend modes and they don't seem to work too well.
Advanced Terrain Commands aren't in the help.

Now I understand time has to be split between their current product line and prolly the SDK needs most of it as it is the least developed and from what I've read the most buggy at the moment. But the time spent on DB Pro should be working toward fixing known issues before creating new ones.

Breaking Stuff=Fun!,Bug Testing<>Fun!, Bug Testing=Breaking Stuff, so...
Bug Testing=Fun! Hmmmm....
DOES NOT COMPUTE! SYSTEM MALFUNTION!
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Keaz
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Sep 2003
Location: Somewhere in south Texas
Posted: 3rd Jul 2005 08:18 Edited at: 3rd Jul 2005 08:22
Link
To tell the truth one reason I mention this is because I bought an earlier "Value package" of DBPro. I don't have the expansion pack or some of dll's. I was planning now that I have seen them in action to purchase the "Enhancement Value Pack" to get all the DLLs as I only have one. (BlueGUI, but don't my giving Rob a little extra for another copy) I may decide not to get the value pack depending on the way this develops. Newton's already available and free and one of if not the best physics engine available, so what's the point? Oh wait, there adding cloth, no wait we have that.. Hmm... I don't see any reason to having it. Heck, for that matter they could use Newton for FPSC as long as they notify Newton and credit them in the about/splash etc... Unless I'm missing something here.

My point is if they try to charge for the physics expansion it's a no go. If they give it away free it's still not adding much for the lack of other development. I personally think this is a case of to much effort for to little development.

Breaking Stuff=Fun!,Bug Testing<>Fun!, Bug Testing=Breaking Stuff, so...
Bug Testing=Fun! Hmmmm....
DOES NOT COMPUTE! SYSTEM MALFUNTION!
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Zealous
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 13th Sep 2004
Location: Colorado Springs
Posted: 3rd Jul 2005 12:19
Link
I would have to agree with Keaz. There are a thousand other things I would rather see before a physics addon.

All you need is zeal
Back to top
Profile PM Email
OSX Using Happy Dude
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Aug 2003
Location: At home
Posted: 3rd Jul 2005 15:33 Edited at: 3rd Jul 2005 15:34
Link
Quote: " Its currently for the FPSC - I dont think its been decided whether if will be availiable for DBPro yet."

Should have said they dont know whether it'll be availiable for the SDK , seeing as FPSC is being written in DBPro.

Quote: "As far as half done commands well.. the first one that come's to mind is statistic()"

Strange as there is no bug report for it, eh ?


Atomz is at http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~nickk
http://spaces.msn.com/members/BouncyBrick/
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Zealous
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 13th Sep 2004
Location: Colorado Springs
Posted: 3rd Jul 2005 17:02
Link
I suppose its sort of a two birds with one stone thing eh? I mean they are working on it for FPSC, so why not toss us DBPRO people a bone at the same time.

Guess we cant complain, or can we?

All you need is zeal
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Keaz
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Sep 2003
Location: Somewhere in south Texas
Posted: 3rd Jul 2005 22:42 Edited at: 3rd Jul 2005 22:46
Link
As far as the physics go. My point was and is that it's already available and free, so they should take advantage of what's available rather than reinventing the wheel. As Newton is C++ and there is a free DBPro wrapper.... What's the point again? They could use Newton in FPSC(to easily speed development.) with the proper liscensing notifications on the Newton website and on top of that neither DBPro or the SDK need a physics addon as one is freely available.

Quote: "Strange as there is no bug report for it, eh?"

It's not technically a bug just an unfinished or poorly documented command(although still widely used).
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=54336&b=1
This was my post complaining about the documentation 2 months ago.

All I'm asking for is a more productive use the TGC time.

Breaking Stuff=Fun!,Bug Testing<>Fun!, Bug Testing=Breaking Stuff, so...
Bug Testing=Fun! Hmmmm....
DOES NOT COMPUTE! SYSTEM MALFUNTION!
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Jess T
Retired Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th Sep 2003
Location: Over There... Kablam!
Posted: 3rd Jul 2005 22:57 Edited at: 3rd Jul 2005 22:57
Link
As far as the help files go... They haven't documented the Statistic command because they haven't done anything else with it...

I mean, There's only one other statistic number that does anything
( as I've Noted in my dbHelp files; http://jessticular.dbspot.com/index.php?nav=dbhelp&command=150 )
Which probably isn't documented as it's either flawed, or was never meant for public release!

As for the blend modes for Set Blend Mapping On...
http://jessticular.dbspot.com/index.php?nav=dbhelp&command=149
There's a complete list...

Enjoy.

Jess.

Team EOD :: All-Round Nice Guy
Want Better dbHelp Files?
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
David R
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Sep 2003
Location: 3.14
Posted: 3rd Jul 2005 23:18
Link
Quote: "Strange as there is no bug report for it, eh ?
"


There was a bug report for it, that was locked because 'Documentation or lack of it is not a bug'

[url=www.lightningstudios.co.uk][/url]
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Keaz
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Sep 2003
Location: Somewhere in south Texas
Posted: 3rd Jul 2005 23:47 Edited at: 3rd Jul 2005 23:50
Link
Thanks for the help on the help files Jess,(that came out a bit strange) but that just proves my point. I shouldn't have to search through the forums and then go to another site to find the info on this.

For another help gone wrong example(not poorly documented, just plain wrong).
Quote: "
The first DWORD is the FVF Format, which controls which components each vertex of your mesh will contain. The default FVF Format is 338.
"


No outside media just pure DBPro and I get 274.(Which incidentally is also formatted different than 338) I have notes on the 274 format which I may post on the site.

There are better uses of DBPro development time than a DLL that already exists and is available for free.

P.S. If there was only going to be one, statistic(1) then maybe it should have been polys() or something like that and not get up our hopes of future development and never develop it. I still believe it was half-done. For an idea of a more useful function. How about "make memblock from file" or better/correct(see above) documentation on the memblock formats.

Breaking Stuff=Fun!,Bug Testing<>Fun!, Bug Testing=Breaking Stuff, so...
Bug Testing=Fun! Hmmmm....
DOES NOT COMPUTE! SYSTEM MALFUNTION!
Back to top
Profile PM Email
David T
Retired Moderator
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Aug 2002
Location: England
Posted: 4th Jul 2005 00:38
Link
Quote: "P.S. If there was only going to be one, statistic(1) then maybe it should have been polys() or something like that and not get up our hopes of future development and never develop it."


Probably designed like that so they can add extra statistics in future easily. Stop whinging

Quote: "My point was and is that it's already available and free, so they should take advantage of what's available rather than reinventing the wheel. As Newton is C++ and there is a free DBPro wrapper.... What's the point again? They could use Newton in FPSC(to easily speed development.) "


But then TGC wouldn't make any money from that...

"A book. If u know something why cant u make a kool game or prog.
come on now. A book. I hate books. book is stupid. I know that I need codes but I dont know the codes"
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
OSX Using Happy Dude
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Aug 2003
Location: At home
Posted: 4th Jul 2005 00:46
Link
Besides the one they have chosen could be more powerful than Newton


Atomz is at http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~nickk
http://spaces.msn.com/members/BouncyBrick/
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Keaz
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Sep 2003
Location: Somewhere in south Texas
Posted: 4th Jul 2005 00:51 Edited at: 4th Jul 2005 01:02
Link
@Daivd
Quote: "
But then TGC wouldn't make any money from that...
"


They still won't... Newton is so expensive and the liscense so limited. I think I'll buy a physics expansion from TGC, because I can't afford free software. I won't feel like I earned it.

Quote: "
My point is if they try to charge for the physics expansion it's a no go. If they give it away free it's still not adding much for the lack of other development. I personally think this is a case of to much effort for to little development.
"



@Bouncy
Quote: "
Besides the one they have chosen could be more powerful than Newton
"


Quote: "There are better uses of DBPro development time than a DLL that already exists and is available for free."



My point simply put is..
1.Newton Wrapper=Execellent free physics for DBPro.
2.Newton SDK/Wrapper(Depending on C++/DBPro)=Quick development of physics for FPSC (if that was the main purpose)
3.Newton SDK=DBPro SDK Physics (Newton's libraries are already in C++)

1+2+3=New physics not needed=bad use of development time.

Breaking Stuff=Fun!,Bug Testing<>Fun!, Bug Testing=Breaking Stuff, so...
Bug Testing=Fun! Hmmmm....
DOES NOT COMPUTE! SYSTEM MALFUNTION!
Back to top
Profile PM Email
OSX Using Happy Dude
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Aug 2003
Location: At home
Posted: 4th Jul 2005 01:13
Link
Quote: "1.Newton Wrapper=Execellent free physics for DBPro."

May not have everything required

Quote: "2.Newton SDK/Wrapper(Depending on C++/DBPro)=Quick development of physics for FPSC (if that was the main purpose)"

Still may not have everything required

Quote: "3.Newton SDK=DBPro SDK Physics (Newton's libraries are already in C++)"

Possibly the only physics system that'll be availiable for the SDK


Atomz is at http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~nickk
http://spaces.msn.com/members/BouncyBrick/
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Keaz
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Sep 2003
Location: Somewhere in south Texas
Posted: 4th Jul 2005 01:18 Edited at: 4th Jul 2005 01:20
Link
Yes, it may not have everything required, but it would have(past tense since the mistake is already made) sped up development as it would have given them the basic framework. As far as the SDK goes.. C++ libraries will work with.... C++ libraries... amazing. I thought the point of the SDK was to release a C++ DarkBasic based 3D engine and libraries.

Breaking Stuff=Fun!,Bug Testing<>Fun!, Bug Testing=Breaking Stuff, so...
Bug Testing=Fun! Hmmmm....
DOES NOT COMPUTE! SYSTEM MALFUNTION!
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Keaz
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Sep 2003
Location: Somewhere in south Texas
Posted: 4th Jul 2005 01:24 Edited at: 4th Jul 2005 01:29
Link
One more note:
For a better use of DBPro development time(No matter how limited.)Try:
This:http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_buglist&bugtype=yes59 Uncorrected Bugs
Versus:http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_buglist&bugtype=next3 Fixed
It's been 3 months... Wow! A bug a month. Only 5 more years till the next release... (Yes that was a bit sarcastic.)

Breaking Stuff=Fun!,Bug Testing<>Fun!, Bug Testing=Breaking Stuff, so...
Bug Testing=Fun! Hmmmm....
DOES NOT COMPUTE! SYSTEM MALFUNTION!
Back to top
Profile PM Email
OSX Using Happy Dude
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Aug 2003
Location: At home
Posted: 4th Jul 2005 01:35
Link
Once FPSC is out of the way, hopefully Lee will get back to DBPro...


Atomz is at http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~nickk
http://spaces.msn.com/members/BouncyBrick/
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Keaz
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Sep 2003
Location: Somewhere in south Texas
Posted: 4th Jul 2005 01:45 Edited at: 4th Jul 2005 01:54
Link
Quote: " Once FPSC is out of the way, hopefully Lee will get back to DBPro..."

Yep, my point for this:
Quote: "Yes, it may not have everything required, but it would have(past tense since the mistake is already made) sped up development as it would have given them the basic framework."


Heck on the Newton Issue. The latest version 1.32 was in the news letter as I recall.

Breaking Stuff=Fun!,Bug Testing<>Fun!, Bug Testing=Breaking Stuff, so...
Bug Testing=Fun! Hmmmm....
DOES NOT COMPUTE! SYSTEM MALFUNTION!
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Mnemonix
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd Dec 2002
Location: Skaro
Posted: 4th Jul 2005 01:47
Link
Quote: "1+2+3=New physics not needed=bad use of development time."


Thats your logic against theres, and since you are obviously not in full possession of the facts, then you should not make such vague assumptions.

WE SHALL BECOME ALL POWERFUL! CRUSH THE LESSER RACES! CONQUER THE GALAXY! UNIMAGINABLE POWER! UNLIMITED RICE PUDDING ! ! ! ETC. ! ! ! ETC.! ! !
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
SCI_CO
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th Apr 2004
Location: USA
Posted: 4th Jul 2005 01:51
Link
When I first got DBPro the confirmed bug count was 250+
add now its 50+.
Its so close.
Back to top
Profile PM
Keaz
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Sep 2003
Location: Somewhere in south Texas
Posted: 4th Jul 2005 02:07
Link
@SCI_CO: What version were you @ when you got it?

And those were the bugs since the 5.8 release. I'm not saying they don't fix the bugs. I'm stating more could be done if priorities were straight. This is an issue a professional developer needs be aware of. I'm not demanding the bugs be fixed right now as most are obscure and don't effect my software. What I am suggesting is better allocation of time. Doing things the hard way is not always the right way. More time on one thing, especially something that seems so unecessary means less time for other things. Personally I say forget the bugs I'd be more interested in better/fixed documentation first, but that is my opinion and others will say the bugs should come first as for documention you can get help elsewhere even though you shouldn't have too.

@Mnemonix:
Quote: "vague assumptions"

I don't see any vague assumptions. The diary entry I mention above came from Mike and it was from 1 and a months ago and he is still on that project. That's alot of development time @ what gain that's not allready available?

Breaking Stuff=Fun!,Bug Testing<>Fun!, Bug Testing=Breaking Stuff, so...
Bug Testing=Fun! Hmmmm....
DOES NOT COMPUTE! SYSTEM MALFUNTION!
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Baggers
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 31st May 2004
Location: Yonder over dem dere hills
Posted: 4th Jul 2005 02:08
Link
Yeah the bug fixing has been incredible, i got dbpro when it first came out and it was terrible for bugs, nowerdays theres relitivly few. I personally tip my hat to TGC for that.
Documentation really isnt an issue now we have the online help files, in time they will be a fantastic boost the community just through people's submissions.
I agree with DavidT on the subject of "unfinished" commands. If its not broke, why are you so intent that it needs fixing ?

Id personally let TGC make their decissions on their own, its got them thins far quite happily and they now have numerous quality products out there. Yes id like to see more concentration on Dbpro for a while but FPSC is a great market booster for programming as people have already been getting a taste of game creating, enjoying it and getting db/p.

Back to top
Profile PM Email
Keaz
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Sep 2003
Location: Somewhere in south Texas
Posted: 4th Jul 2005 02:12 Edited at: 4th Jul 2005 02:15
Link
I'm not saying stop FPSC Development or even worried about the bugs. I'm just asking "Why?". If it's already there do it over when there's not alot of room for improvement. You should redo things that have room for improvement. Like:"The editor, the help, or fix bigger bugs in other products or extend limitations, etc..."

Breaking Stuff=Fun!,Bug Testing<>Fun!, Bug Testing=Breaking Stuff, so...
Bug Testing=Fun! Hmmmm....
DOES NOT COMPUTE! SYSTEM MALFUNTION!
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Mnemonix
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd Dec 2002
Location: Skaro
Posted: 4th Jul 2005 02:16
Link
Quote: "That's alot of development time @ what gain that's not allready available?"



How do you know that for certain that the gain available is truely minute.

One thing that seems to have evaded you is that TGC will release this as a product which will make money, whilst using newton, they may not be legally allowed to make money due to licencing etc.

Whether thats true or not, I dont know, but you cannot criticise them for inefficiently spending their development time, when you obivously do not know fully the reasoning behind what they are doing.

WE SHALL BECOME ALL POWERFUL! CRUSH THE LESSER RACES! CONQUER THE GALAXY! UNIMAGINABLE POWER! UNLIMITED RICE PUDDING ! ! ! ETC. ! ! ! ETC.! ! !
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Lost in Thought
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Feb 2004
Location: U.S.A. : Douglas, Georgia
Posted: 4th Jul 2005 02:23
Link
Plus I want the physics pack

You can never please everyone.

Back to top
Profile PM Email
Keaz
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Sep 2003
Location: Somewhere in south Texas
Posted: 4th Jul 2005 02:58 Edited at: 4th Jul 2005 03:10
Link
@Mnemonix
Quote: "One thing that seems to have evaded you is that TGC will release this as a product which will make money"

Why pay for something that is already free? and
Quote: "They could use Newton in FPSC(to easily speed development.) with the proper liscensing notifications on the Newton website "

A quick check of the newton liscense would reveal that:
Quote: " 3) The LICENSEE agrees to credit the use of the Newton Game Dynamics in any program information, including splash screens, "About" dialogs, program notes or instructions and shrink-wrapped packaging.

4) The LICENSEE may not redistribute the SOFTWARE, except as part of a compiled software program that is not itself a physics library.

5) The LICENSEE agrees to notify www.newtondynamics.com of any products, commercial, shareware or free that incorporate the Newton Game Dynamics technology."


3. Show some recognition for their work.
4. It wouldn't be a physics library
5. Commercial is listed

I already did the research because I plan on using it myself.

@LiT
Quote: "plus I want the physics pack "

http://walaber.com/
Why?


Also @Mnemonix:
Quote: "
You obivously do not know fully the reasoning behind what they are doing."

That's why I made the thread. I was hoping to learn their "reasoning".
If you go to my first post the question was
Quote: ""Why?"."
Please read an entire thread before jumping in the middle of a conversation.

Breaking Stuff=Fun!,Bug Testing<>Fun!, Bug Testing=Breaking Stuff, so...
Bug Testing=Fun! Hmmmm....
DOES NOT COMPUTE! SYSTEM MALFUNTION!
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Mnemonix
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd Dec 2002
Location: Skaro
Posted: 4th Jul 2005 03:11
Link
He is allowed to "want" the physics pack isnt he.

Why do you think TGC have to justify everything they do?

Do Microsoft justify what they do hmm?
Im pretty sure people will pay money for this physics pack when it is released.
If you have further questions about it however, you can drop by the IRC Q&A which should be happening within a few weeks.

WE SHALL BECOME ALL POWERFUL! CRUSH THE LESSER RACES! CONQUER THE GALAXY! UNIMAGINABLE POWER! UNLIMITED RICE PUDDING ! ! ! ETC. ! ! ! ETC.! ! !
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Lost in Thought
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Feb 2004
Location: U.S.A. : Douglas, Georgia
Posted: 4th Jul 2005 03:14
Link
Newton does not work correctly with my terrains and it is way too much trouble IMO. As well as wasting more memory than a pack from TGC as they can use the objects' data without making copies.

Back to top
Profile PM Email
Keaz
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Sep 2003
Location: Somewhere in south Texas
Posted: 4th Jul 2005 03:19 Edited at: 4th Jul 2005 03:19
Link
I didn't say he wasn't again I asked him "Why?" I try to learn before I judge. That is what I was here to do in the first place.

No, they don't "have" to justify it no has to justify anything they do, but I was hoping I might get an answer to learn more or possibly provide input to help them in similar future decisions.

It is true people will pay money for it when it is released, people also pay money for bad buggy games. What's your point there? Richard himself denounced companies that are only it for profit, himself, on a thread last night.

Lastly, I will check out the IRC chat on it if I don't get answers sooner.

Breaking Stuff=Fun!,Bug Testing<>Fun!, Bug Testing=Breaking Stuff, so...
Bug Testing=Fun! Hmmmm....
DOES NOT COMPUTE! SYSTEM MALFUNTION!
Back to top
Profile PM Email
OSX Using Happy Dude
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Aug 2003
Location: At home
Posted: 4th Jul 2005 03:22
Link
Why not e-mail Rich or someone and ask why Newton was not chosen over their current package...


Atomz is at http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~nickk
http://spaces.msn.com/members/BouncyBrick/
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Keaz
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Sep 2003
Location: Somewhere in south Texas
Posted: 4th Jul 2005 03:29 Edited at: 4th Jul 2005 03:29
Link
I thought a forum discussion would be better and also inform more of the community.

Breaking Stuff=Fun!,Bug Testing<>Fun!, Bug Testing=Breaking Stuff, so...
Bug Testing=Fun! Hmmmm....
DOES NOT COMPUTE! SYSTEM MALFUNTION!
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Mike Johnson
TGC Developer
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 13th Sep 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 4th Jul 2005 04:41
Link
The physics pack will open up many possibilities for making games in DB Pro. Of course as you say there are other options such as Newton but you have to realise that each physics engine offers different features and some are suited to certain tasks more so than others. Everyone is going to have their own preference based on what they are doing. Some people may not be interested in using physics in their games, others may want to use one of the free packages like Newton and other people may want to buy the physics expansion pack we are working on. There is plenty of choice for everyone with all the options available.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Mr Bigger
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 31st Jan 2005
Location: was here!
Posted: 4th Jul 2005 04:47
Link
I agree Keaz.Forum discussions are healthy.I too like bug week and wish it to be more frequent,who doesnt? I also know pizzas arent free. I think when i look at the products TGC has produced and whats missing,an easy to use (in house) physics package would be nice.Why? you ask.It can be packaged with their current line of products.It can be sold seperately.Easier to incorporate into your programs.More features.More speed.More profit.My personal wishful thinking on the subject is that it will lead to better (in house) collision.All this without having to ask permission or give credit.
Not to mention the growing competition.I said not to mention that.
I dont think they need to explain it to me.Thats my 2 cents.
Back to top
Profile PM
Mike Johnson
TGC Developer
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 13th Sep 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 4th Jul 2005 04:51
Link
We have been spending time making improvements and fixing bugs in DB Pro recently and another bug week is on the agenda before too long.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Lost in Thought
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Feb 2004
Location: U.S.A. : Douglas, Georgia
Posted: 4th Jul 2005 05:24
Link
Just pretty please with a cherry on top ... fix the collision system again

Back to top
Profile PM Email
Keaz
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Sep 2003
Location: Somewhere in south Texas
Posted: 4th Jul 2005 06:04
Link
Ok. Here goes. Another reason I asked is I have been using DBPro for a while know and only recently came into contact with physics. I originally tried with DarkBasic, the "Dark Horse of programming", to make a game I wanted to make. This was when it was still free. After I failed I thought I would look for another option when I true got ready to build my project and realized it was going to take a sizeable investment. The during the down time I spent a couple years in the US military and then after I got out I've only recently come back into programming. About 2 years ago I bought DBPro. I also got BlueGUI 1.0 early on as well. After another lapse I'm back.I did a lot of research and decided on some of the more important aspects of my game. I was looking into physics for my game and a few other features and came across Newton. It is a fast accurate physics modeller. I will agree it's not tailored to gaming and we might see improvements that would warrant a separate product. If I am to pay for a product it should have a benefit that free products don't offer(at that time).

My biggest question is what improvements/features make this more worthwhile to a DBPro/Game developer like myself, that I can't get from a freely available product like Newton?

Breaking Stuff=Fun!,Bug Testing<>Fun!, Bug Testing=Breaking Stuff, so...
Bug Testing=Fun! Hmmmm....
DOES NOT COMPUTE! SYSTEM MALFUNTION!
Back to top
Profile PM Email
OSX Using Happy Dude
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Aug 2003
Location: At home
Posted: 4th Jul 2005 06:33
Link
Quote: " Just pretty please with a cherry on top ... fix the collision system again"

Whats wrong with it ?


Atomz is at http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~nickk
http://spaces.msn.com/members/BouncyBrick/
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Mike Johnson
TGC Developer
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 13th Sep 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 4th Jul 2005 06:56
Link
Will say more about the physics pack when it is finished and ready for release.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Lost in Thought
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Feb 2004
Location: U.S.A. : Douglas, Georgia
Posted: 4th Jul 2005 07:24
Link
Quote: "Whats wrong with it ?"


DBP's is completely useless to me in 5.8 public though it was perfect in 5.8 sdk. Run the snippets I posted in the bug report. The collisions don't even register at all in some directions.

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=15146&b=15

Back to top
Profile PM Email
Keaz
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Sep 2003
Location: Somewhere in south Texas
Posted: 4th Jul 2005 07:27
Link
@LiT... You could use NGC or Newton...

Breaking Stuff=Fun!,Bug Testing<>Fun!, Bug Testing=Breaking Stuff, so...
Bug Testing=Fun! Hmmmm....
DOES NOT COMPUTE! SYSTEM MALFUNTION!
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Keaz
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Sep 2003
Location: Somewhere in south Texas
Posted: 4th Jul 2005 07:29 Edited at: 4th Jul 2005 07:29
Link
Well I guess bottom line is I'll have to wait and see, but I don't need to say I won't be an early adopter of the physics pack until I see it's necessity.

Breaking Stuff=Fun!,Bug Testing<>Fun!, Bug Testing=Breaking Stuff, so...
Bug Testing=Fun! Hmmmm....
DOES NOT COMPUTE! SYSTEM MALFUNTION!
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Jess T
Retired Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th Sep 2003
Location: Over There... Kablam!
Posted: 4th Jul 2005 21:43
Link
Quote: "I will agree [Newton]'s not tailored to gaming"


Eh?
Newton is made for physics in games... What else would it be used for?

Team EOD :: All-Round Nice Guy
Want Better dbHelp Files?
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Scilynt
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 13th Nov 2002
Location: .-#-.
Posted: 4th Jul 2005 21:47 Edited at: 5th Jul 2005 05:28
Link
Just thought I'd share some information on the statistic command that I found.

There are when I last checked 9 possible values, most of which I have no idea what they indicate, here is what I have:

1) Polygon Count (Onscreen)
2) Shadow / Reflection Shading Available (All the PCs I have can support it, so I'm not entirely sure)
3) !?
4) !?
5) Object Count (Onscreen)
6) !?
7) !?
8) !?
9) !?

[EDIT]Reverting back to my original numbering. You pass in the value I've listed, but DBP internally using (arg0 - 1)
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Keaz
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Sep 2003
Location: Somewhere in south Texas
Posted: 5th Jul 2005 02:53
Link
Quote: "Newton is made for physics in games... What else would it be used for?"

Real life physics simulations. I should correct that though. It's not tailored to game development in DBPro. I had to be adapted for it.

Breaking Stuff=Fun!,Bug Testing<>Fun!, Bug Testing=Breaking Stuff, so...
Bug Testing=Fun! Hmmmm....
DOES NOT COMPUTE! SYSTEM MALFUNTION!
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Keaz
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Sep 2003
Location: Somewhere in south Texas
Posted: 5th Jul 2005 02:56
Link
Pssst... Mike, official word on the unofficial statistic commands would be nice.

Breaking Stuff=Fun!,Bug Testing<>Fun!, Bug Testing=Breaking Stuff, so...
Bug Testing=Fun! Hmmmm....
DOES NOT COMPUTE! SYSTEM MALFUNTION!
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Mike Johnson
TGC Developer
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 13th Sep 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 5th Jul 2005 06:12
Link
The statistic command works as follows -

1 = number of polygons drawn
2 = stencil buffer available
3 = current universe area box
4 = number of universe area boxes
5 = number of draw primitive calls
6 = polygon count of current universe area box
7 = draw primitive call count from current universe area box
8 = number of polygons tested for collision in universe area box
9 = volumes tested for collision in universe

Some of these won't be useful right now as the universe commands are not currently available.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Lost in Thought
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Feb 2004
Location: U.S.A. : Douglas, Georgia
Posted: 5th Jul 2005 06:21
Link
I do use NGC, but NGC doesn't like collisions with doors/elevators moving down (when hitting the object from overhead and the ellipsoid isn't moving), as well as some rotational collisions. I was using DBP for these simple collision checks, but now I can't.

Back to top
Profile PM Email
Keaz
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Sep 2003
Location: Somewhere in south Texas
Posted: 5th Jul 2005 06:33 Edited at: 5th Jul 2005 06:35
Link
Thx Mike,
I'm going to add the info to DBhelp

[Edit] LiT beat me to it, but thx anyway it will be good for future reference.

Breaking Stuff=Fun!,Bug Testing<>Fun!, Bug Testing=Breaking Stuff, so...
Bug Testing=Fun! Hmmmm....
DOES NOT COMPUTE! SYSTEM MALFUNTION!
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Back to top

Login to post a reply

Server time is: 2025-05-31 00:22:16
Your offset time is: 2025-05-31 00:22:16