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Geek Culture / Triall versions are dumb! No offence to anyone...

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ReneGade RG
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Posted: 4th Jul 2005 20:27
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Playbasic triall version :You can't save your work, nonsense, take out notepad, copy all the code and save it! Laughable!

Pro Motion triall: You can't save your images, nonsense, take out paint, cntrl+c+printscreen, paste it onto paint and save it!

It's kinda dumb, what are meant to be limitations are nothing!
It's as if I can download Playbasic and not have to buy the reall thing!

Seriously, the TGC staff have to keep all this in mind! And not to give anyone ideas...that's not why I posted this in!

Oh, there's my Playbasic download! Cheers!

It's amazing you're reading this, surprise... you still are.
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 4th Jul 2005 20:56
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Err.. what use is a notepad file full of Play Basic source code if you cannot turn it into an EXE file? Can't run that exe for longer than 5 minutes. Have media loading limitations, etc?

What use is screen grabbing ProMotion if 30 days in the program stops running anyway? and you can only create images of a smaller limited size?

Hey look.. here's some C# code, now you don't need to buy Visual Studio .NET. Or hey look, here's a Print Screen button, now you don't need to buy Photoshop!

Woohoo...

A great many people think they are thinking when they are really rearranging their prejudices.
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empty
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Posted: 4th Jul 2005 21:05
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Quote: "Playbasic triall version :You can't save your work"

Erm... you can save your source codes.


Play Nice! Play Basic! Version 1.073
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ReneGade RG
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Posted: 4th Jul 2005 21:06
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Quote: "Erm... you can save your source codes."


Oh, that's what they meant! Time to learn how they did all those 3d effects in those Playbasic demo and ditch DarkBasic! Even more yay!

It's amazing you're reading this, surprise... you still are.
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empty
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Posted: 4th Jul 2005 21:10
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Oh well...


Play Nice! Play Basic! Version 1.073
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ReneGade RG
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Posted: 4th Jul 2005 21:14 Edited at: 4th Jul 2005 21:15
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well...how did you do it or how did anyone do it?
How did you create all those weird 3d effects in a 2d programming language! Take me through all the basics, quickly, so I can ditch DarkBasic and never go back to proper 3d programming again!

It's amazing you're reading this, surprise... you still are.
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Van B
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Posted: 4th Jul 2005 21:41
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Renegade,

The 3D stuff in PlayBasic is all pure source code written by UWDesign, based on original DB demos. PB is currently pure 2D, even the 3D is hard coded 2D routines. You simply won't find anyone who can show you how it's done.

A great coder would struggle to replicate that, a great coder would probably struggle to even understand all of UW's code!. There's a galaxy width difference between PlayBasic's 3D demos and DBPro, if you can't see that then you really need to get your head down and learn some stuff before violently changing your mind about your choice of language again.


Van-B

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ReneGade RG
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Posted: 4th Jul 2005 21:51
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Quote: "Renegade,

The 3D stuff in PlayBasic is all pure source code written by UWDesign, based on original DB demos. PB is currently pure 2D, even the 3D is hard coded 2D routines. You simply won't find anyone who can show you how it's done.

A great coder would struggle to replicate that, a great coder would probably struggle to even understand all of UW's code!. There's a galaxy width difference between PlayBasic's 3D demos and DBPro, if you can't see that then you really need to get your head down and learn some stuff before violently changing your mind about your choice of language again.


Van-B
"


But then the demo doesn't actually show what is TRUELY possible with Playbasic! It's kinda sad, nobody is gonna turn that w3d demo into a full FPS or weird maze-style game...

It's amazing you're reading this, surprise... you still are.
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Van B
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Posted: 4th Jul 2005 22:02
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No, that demo shows exactly what is possible with PlayBasic.

Drawing dots is what it's all about - if your 2D language is fast enough to generate and render a 3D landscape with 3D objects, then any 2D coder who knows their onions will see just how fast it can go. It might not mean that everyone will want to make 3D games in it because that's what DBPro is for - it means that nobody is really concearned about how it would handle line drawing etc, because it's doing the toughest job possible for a 2D rendering system. Bare in mind that the 3D demos are converted to PlayBasic, the were already written and were converted as a stress test for PB, like see how much faster it's core 2D handling is than DBClassic.


Van-B

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Hawkeye
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Posted: 4th Jul 2005 22:04
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Quote: "General Talk / Triall versions are dumb! No offence to anyone..."

Ehhh... you're kind dumb too... but no offense


Benjamin says: fecking twat of a program [msn7]
Meh blog
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ReneGade RG
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Posted: 4th Jul 2005 22:12 Edited at: 4th Jul 2005 22:14
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Quote: "Ehhh... you're kind dumb too... but no offense "


God, I'm getting dissed so much I'm beginning to feel I should just give up using these forums!

Quote: "No, that demo shows exactly what is possible with PlayBasic.

Drawing dots is what it's all about - if your 2D language is fast enough to generate and render a 3D landscape with 3D objects, then any 2D coder who knows their onions will see just how fast it can go. It might not mean that everyone will want to make 3D games in it because that's what DBPro is for - it means that nobody is really concearned about how it would handle line drawing etc, because it's doing the toughest job possible for a 2D rendering system. Bare in mind that the 3D demos are converted to PlayBasic, the were already written and were converted as a stress test for PB, like see how much faster it's core 2D handling is than DBClassic."


I understand! Interesting....why DBClassic, why not test it with DBPro? So DBPro can still hold its own on PlayBasic when it comes to 2d?

It's amazing you're reading this, surprise... you still are.
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Benjamin
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Posted: 4th Jul 2005 22:13
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Please do!


"Lets migrate like bricks" - Me
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 4th Jul 2005 22:15
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May I suggest a little thought before posting...


Atomz is at http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~nickk
http://spaces.msn.com/members/BouncyBrick/
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ReneGade RG
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Posted: 4th Jul 2005 22:16
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Quote: "Please do!"


Why the hell does everyone hate me here?

It's amazing you're reading this, surprise... you still are.
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Van B
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Posted: 4th Jul 2005 22:18 Edited at: 4th Jul 2005 22:21
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But your not using these forums Renegade, your spamming them.

If your interested in DBPro then download the trial if you haven't already, and try it out, mess with the tutorials and have fun. It's not a quick process to learn, but to be honest with your current attitude you'd never learn anything here.

You need to decide what you want to do - do you want to code games or click-create games?, do you want 2D or 3D?. Posting every thought that occurs to you is not the best way to get help here, I suggest clicking that 'X' at the top right and trying the stuff for yourself before deciding if it suits you.

Edit:
UW's demo may well have been tested in DBPro as well, but I think it's fair to say already without those tests that PlayBasic is faster and better for 2D than DBPro. I mean, have you seen some of the PlayBasic sprite demos? - PB's scarily fast at times.


Van-B

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Dave J
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Posted: 4th Jul 2005 22:18 Edited at: 4th Jul 2005 22:20
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Quote: "May I suggest a little thought before posting..."


I'd like to suggest a lot of thought...


"Computers are useless, they can only give you answers."
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ReneGade RG
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Posted: 4th Jul 2005 22:22
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Quote: "But your not using these forums Renegade, your spamming them.

If your interested in DBPro then download the trial if you haven't already, and try it out, mess with the tutorials and have fun. It's not a quick process to learn, but to be honest with your current attitude you'd never learn anything here.

You need to decide what you want to do - do you want to code games or click-create games?, do you want 2D or 3D?. Posting every thought that occurs to you is not the best way to get help here, I suggest clicking that 'X' at the top right and trying the stuff for yourself before deciding if it suits you.


Van-B"


I already have, and I have already made many games! I just thought I could ask a question I thought might be interesting!

It's amazing you're reading this, surprise... you still are.
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Mnemonix
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Posted: 4th Jul 2005 22:43
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Quote: "I already have, and I have already made many games! I just thought I could ask a question I thought might be interesting!
"


Lets see them then.

WE SHALL BECOME ALL POWERFUL! CRUSH THE LESSER RACES! CONQUER THE GALAXY! UNIMAGINABLE POWER! UNLIMITED RICE PUDDING ! ! ! ETC. ! ! ! ETC.! ! !
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Hawkeye
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Posted: 5th Jul 2005 00:05
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Quote: "I'm beginning to feel I should just give up using these forums!"

Like Van-B said... you're not using the forums, you're spamming them. I must give you a little credit, you aren't entirely treating these fori like a chatroom in the sense that you aren't double posting, but you are starting to get a "post first in the hope that someone else knows so I don't have to go to all the trouble of learning it myself" effect going *inhales deeply* Stop posting about every little thing and start doing some of the work yourself.


Benjamin says: fecking twat of a program [msn7]
Meh blog
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Dark Flame
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Posted: 5th Jul 2005 00:11
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U've made 4 threads in the same day and there all pointless.

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Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 5th Jul 2005 00:20 Edited at: 5th Jul 2005 00:23
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The main flaw in your posts is that none of them really make that much sense, and sound like you're spewing everything that comes into your head at that moment onto the page. Try to constuct proper sentences and sound more like you're addressing someone in a letter than on msn. I have no doubt that your intentions are good and you mean to just use this forum like everyone else, just take a few more words to get your point across. And lay off the exclamation marks!

And about 2D games in DBPro, take a look at DUO by Fog/BinaryZoo. If that isn't "holding its own" against playbasic then I don't know what is. Not that DBPro doesn't have its limitations, seeing as the main focus is on 3D.

More tea Vicar?
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Dazzag
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Posted: 5th Jul 2005 03:42
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Quote: "God, I'm getting dissed so much I'm beginning to feel I should just give up using these forums!"


Quote: "Joined: Fri May 13th 2005"


Short attention span, no? And judging by the wildness that your posts bob back and fore, I would say lay off the caffeine/ hard drugs.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
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Benjamin
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Posted: 5th Jul 2005 04:07
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You missed the fact it says friday the 13th. Doomed I tells ya, doomed!


"Lets migrate like bricks" - Me
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_Nemesis_
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Posted: 5th Jul 2005 04:39
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Quote: "God, I'm getting dissed so much I'm beginning to feel I should just give up using these forums!"


Yep, did it cross your mind to think WHY?


[url="http://www.devhat.net"]www.devhat.net[/url] :: DarkBasic IRC Network.
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Jimmy
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Posted: 5th Jul 2005 05:00
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Renegade, you're a retard. Like, O M Gee, get a haircut.


My blog Coding Competition
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Ian T
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Posted: 5th Jul 2005 05:09
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Oh, so that's where that lost shipment of stupid pills went.

If I looking for blog
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Eddie B
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Posted: 5th Jul 2005 05:20
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In jimmy's mouth

Quote: "Pro Motion triall: You can't save your images, nonsense, take out paint, cntrl+c+printscreen, paste it onto paint and save it!"


That's a bit cheap dont ya think... Just buy it , We all buy things what makes you differant, Trials are for people to test the program and see if they want to purchase it.

http://graphics-monkey.co.uk/index.php?p=projects
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David T
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Posted: 5th Jul 2005 05:24
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Quote: "Playbasic triall version :You can't save your work, nonsense, take out notepad, copy all the code and save it! Laughable!

Pro Motion triall: You can't save your images, nonsense, take out paint, cntrl+c+printscreen, paste it onto paint and save it!

It's kinda dumb, what are meant to be limitations are nothing!
It's as if I can download Playbasic and not have to buy the reall thing!

Seriously, the TGC staff have to keep all this in mind! And not to give anyone ideas...that's not why I posted this in!

Oh, there's my Playbasic download! Cheers!"


Smack.

"A book. If u know something why cant u make a kool game or prog.
come on now. A book. I hate books. book is stupid. I know that I need codes but I dont know the codes"
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James Morgan
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Posted: 5th Jul 2005 05:28
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Hmm, totally agree with you Renegade - yeah trialls (and trials) are dumb, I mean why buy a product - just program a simliar software package all yourself and then you get it for free!! Man those software devs are stupid.....

(I wonder what these blue pills do....)

Hello!
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Eddie B
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Posted: 5th Jul 2005 05:39
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Quote: "Smack."


I guess he has just been slapped... No?

http://graphics-monkey.co.uk/index.php?p=projects
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CattleRustler
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Posted: 5th Jul 2005 05:43
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hopefully. was thinking about n00b slapping him myself

DBP Plugins Latest: MSAccess, SQLServer - July 2005
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Eddie B
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Posted: 5th Jul 2005 06:08 Edited at: 5th Jul 2005 06:08
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If I was a mod, Would of done that ages ago lol.

http://graphics-monkey.co.uk/index.php?p=projects
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Jeku
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Posted: 5th Jul 2005 06:46
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Renegade - Here's some advice. If you think something's wrong with a product, wouldn't it be better to email the creator's directly rather than trash it in a public forum? How long have you been using the Internet--- 2 months?


--[R.O.B.O.I. and FireTris Coming Soon]--
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Kevin Picone
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Posted: 5th Jul 2005 06:51
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I'm not sure what's more amusing, that so few people have any real 2D programming experience, or that languages like PB / DB etc inevitably help further create this situation.



Van,

Quote: "UW's demo may well have been tested in DBPro as well, but I think it's fair to say already without those tests that PlayBasic is faster and better for 2D than DBPro. "


Yep, there have been classic and pro versions (flat shaded) of the UW3D demo. The classic version was the original, but I've never been able to get it working in pro. Although, I haven't tried for quite some time now. At least a year i'd say.

In terms of performance, pro would certainly handle the geometry a lot better atm. While the majority of the rendering is via built in features in PB now though. Effectively their limited to video memory bandwidth, even so It's fairly safe to say the renders in PB would be quicker than native pro code could replicate, but ya never know !.

Anyway, I'd say that native pro version _would_ be quicker on the whole atm, as the geometry is quite a bottleneck for PB. That won't be the case post PB1.09 though..

Kevin Picone
[url]www.underwaredesign.com[/url]
Play Nice! Play Basic (Release V1.073 Out Now)
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qwe
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Posted: 5th Jul 2005 08:01
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...rene=troll

If you want anything DB related hosted, log in (with ws ftp or something) www.lysergium.net with username public@lysergium.net and password public. you'll be directed to lysergium.net/public
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Keaz
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Posted: 5th Jul 2005 08:15 Edited at: 5th Jul 2005 08:51
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On the subject of this post... I don't really like trials much either. You usually get one of two things, a piece of software so limited you can't try anything worthwile or demo with all the useful features active and no reason to buy the full version.(Actually I like these )

I plan on bypassing the trialware model in my software design altogether. A lot of things I'll just give away free and the rest will require a subcription, not upfront cost for the download just a subscription to use it. That's why I plan on making on-line games with free offline counter parts. Similar to XBOX live with with no software or hardware to buy (except your PC).

P.S. I use free software when available and full version sofware for commercial apps. If I want a trail I will find someone who has it and use their's so I know what I'm getting and then if I like it I buy it.

Breaking Stuff=Fun!,Bug Testing<>Fun!, Bug Testing=Breaking Stuff, so...
Bug Testing=Fun! Hmmmm....
DOES NOT COMPUTE! SYSTEM MALFUNTION!
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CattleRustler
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Posted: 5th Jul 2005 08:46
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normally, trial version software, whatever the limitations, should not be simple menu disabling, this is easily bypassed. Developers should make a second demo project and completely remove the source for the "locked" features. If you code in a modular fashion this shouldnt be a problem, just the same source with a bunch of functions/methods removed.

DBP Plugins Latest: MSAccess, SQLServer - July 2005
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Ian T
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Posted: 5th Jul 2005 10:19
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Quote: "
In a Trial you SHOULD NOT be allowed to save, this can be bypassed but some things can be limited

In a Trial you should NOT have the full extention of the software, this does not mean limit it to death, it means that you should have less memory allocated for the program.

In a Trial there should be NO time limit, this is pointless and can be easyly bypasses (and there should be no run limit)

And most important, block the cut copy and paste commands.
"


What? Less memory allocated for the program? That's a pointless excersize.

The only important thing a trial version needs to do is limit the software in a single way that will ideally entice a user who likes the software to buy the full version.

It doesn't matter if you can copy the code out if you can't flipping compile it

If I looking for blog
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JoelJ
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Posted: 5th Jul 2005 10:36
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wouldnt this be illegal talking about how to take full use of trial software without paying for it?

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qwe
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Posted: 5th Jul 2005 10:50 Edited at: 5th Jul 2005 10:51
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its not illegal but it's against this forum's rules. however i dont see why theyd lock it when its not actually discussing hwo to bypass, the main intent of the discussion is about trial versions themselves. the discussion can serve both someone making a trial, nad someone trying to bypass a trial

If you want anything DB related hosted, log in (with ws ftp or something) www.lysergium.net with username public@lysergium.net and password public. you'll be directed to lysergium.net/public
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Dave J
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Posted: 5th Jul 2005 12:19
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The ways to bypass trials that have already been pointed out in this thread are so blatantly obvious that it's not worth censoring.


"Computers are useless, they can only give you answers."
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Three Score
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Posted: 5th Jul 2005 15:33
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Quote: "This is the latest version of Emu8086 - 8086 microprocessor emulator. The demo version is fully functional. "

hmmm and i havnt got any nag screens and been using it for over 50 days so maybe the programmer made a bit of error and this just confuses me more
Quote: "# Source code of the emulator is available on request. "

now that is trivial
or maybe they mean just the emulator as in no ide or compiler/linker

n00bs will be shot on spot...
i need some more ammo there are just too many of them better call in the moderators to help
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Benjamin
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Posted: 6th Jul 2005 00:11
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Trial versions are not dumb.. infact, they talk quite well!

The first time I ran an example in the DBC demo I was instantly convinced it was what I wanted


"Lets migrate like bricks" - Me
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Dazzag
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Posted: 6th Jul 2005 03:44 Edited at: 6th Jul 2005 03:46
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Didn't see page 2 (or it was written by the time I typed this). So this is in response to the "isn't it illegal to talk about this" bit....

Why? It's a bit like buying a car, and finding a fiver in the glovebox, or perhaps finding your computer can be upgraded to the next "level" with a simple wire (like AMD when they essentially sold the same CPU, but one physically restricted so they could sell two versions). ie. If they left it in that condition, then whats the problem? Even if there is some amazingly strict law about doing things with demos that the publisher didn't really want you to do (although using a screen grab procedure is hardly using their program), then I *really really really* don't think there is a law about discussing it. Hell, I could talk about no end of illegal stuff without breaking a law. Otherwise you would never get any fiction (detective books being an obvious one there). And I obviously mean obvious holes like grabbing art demo screens etc. *Not* hacking the program to avoid the serial number to access the full version for instance.

I always personally thought the no-save option in demo art packages was a laugh. I mean even if you didn't know about print screen (assuming 100% size) and pasting into another application (with a bit of easy cropping perhaps) then a lot of free paint apps offer screen grabbing. Although I did have a paint package once that basically always had a watermark of their company name over the picture. That was a good security procedure.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
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