Sorry your browser is not supported!

You are using an outdated browser that does not support modern web technologies, in order to use this site please update to a new browser.

Browsers supported include Chrome, FireFox, Safari, Opera, Internet Explorer 10+ or Microsoft Edge.

Geek Culture / Doomed: How ID Lost its Crown

Author
Message
Eric T
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 7th Apr 2003
Location: My location is where I am at this time.
Posted: 12th Jul 2005 07:49
http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=337&Itemid=2

As usual, link stolen from Slashdot. Pretty good artice written by Steve Bowler (Lead Animator for Midway). (May take a few to load, large amounts of traffic cause by slashdot readers )

http://blog.myspace.com/erict An Alternative to Mouse's blog. Now with more lowbrow opinions.** Warning - explicit language**
MikeS
Retired Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd Dec 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 12th Jul 2005 08:43
Quote: "Maybe I’m crazy, but I recall levels in the original Doom where you were downright encouraged to trick the A.I. into fighting itself. Yes, it was a primitive A.I., but I recall being impressed by it. Hell, even the famed Reaperbot for the original Quake is still 10 times more entertaining than fighting drones in Doom 3."


Thought that was a good point, and just wanted to quote that. A good article overall.



A book? I hate book. Book is stupid.
(Formerly Yellow)
Ian T
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 12th Sep 2002
Location: Around
Posted: 12th Jul 2005 09:56
A great article.

And is it just me, or aren't people already forgetting Doom 3? Lots of people still playing and talking about HL2, Far Cry, etc, but Doom, even with the expansion pack, just doesn't have enough to it...

If I looking for blog
CattleRustler
Retired Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Aug 2003
Location: case modding at overclock.net
Posted: 12th Jul 2005 10:06 Edited at: 12th Jul 2005 10:06
i played about 6 levels and uninstalled it, what a waste imho. just goes to prove it doesnt matter how technologically advanced a game or its engine or its visuals are, if its that "same old gag", in the end its pretty woeful.

biggest mistakes:
-too dark
-point was to get player lost, not engage them
-constant old gag of "mosnter behind you" (that old gag, again?) was downright sad.
-way too dark
-darkness, and more darkness, and no ability to weapon+flashlight at same time, aside from via hax - lame

DBP Plugins Latest: MSAccess, SQLServer, MySQL plugins for DBP
Chenak
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 13th Sep 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 12th Jul 2005 10:10
Doom3 was a huge let down... if they just cloned one of the original doom game's and slaped on some awesome graphics it would have been 100 times better. Hopefully there will be a team of modders doing this as we speak
Mnemonix
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd Dec 2002
Location: Skaro
Posted: 12th Jul 2005 10:57
I for one enjoyed doom 3, but this is surely my only opinion.

Having said that, it has no patch on the original, which I still play regularly.

Roll on ES IV...

WE SHALL BECOME ALL POWERFUL! CRUSH THE LESSER RACES! CONQUER THE GALAXY! UNIMAGINABLE POWER! UNLIMITED RICE PUDDING ! ! ! ETC. ! ! ! ETC.! ! !
JoelJ
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Sep 2003
Location: UTAH
Posted: 12th Jul 2005 12:16
i enjoyed it, got rather far actually, before my harddrive crashed, but i dont play games much and i dont want to redo all that.

my friend just beat it and loved it
my cousins loved it
my other friend loves it

my brother hasnt played because of the bad ratings
my brother's friends hate it

i think it's just something differnt and no one likes it, it's no halo...and its not the doom we know, its a freaking NEW game, Doom THREE, not Doom or Doom2, get over it, enjoy it for what it's worth

Jimmy wannabe
Redmotion
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 16th Jan 2003
Location: Mmm mmm.. Marmite
Posted: 12th Jul 2005 20:13
I loved Doom 1 and 2
I loved the original quake.

I didn't bother with quake2 or 3
and doom3 I found spooky and reasonably good look except it was "specular overkill".

And about level 3 or 4 I got bored.

I played Half Life 2 everyday for a week and completed it without playing another game. ID have fallen. But you can't ignore the impact their games have had on the world.

As we are discussing FPS's - "Prey" looks to be the "next" half life. It has all the hallmarks. It's been in dev for ages and they just transfered it to the doom3 engine. It now looks amazing and is rich with some 'different' concepts.

Why oh why though, after HL and HL2 and Far cry,etc etc does everyone else still have to set their games in generic space ship corridors and scientific research facilities?

PROJECTS:
All unfinished - to be released as retro titles in 5 years time.
Jess T
Retired Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th Sep 2003
Location: Over There... Kablam!
Posted: 12th Jul 2005 21:34
... but whereelse do the crazy monsters come from!?

You can't very well be having monsters just running at you from down the street, can you? It's too obvious, they're too easy to see, and (if it's possible) would make for even more boreing game-play!

I've never, ever been a fan of FPS's...
And, once I saw Doom3 in action, I felt like spitting on it...
It's all Graphical Hype, with no game-play.
It's flash-light this, shoot that, jump at that, run over there, flashlight this, predict that, shoot that one... Boring...

Just my thoughts

Jess.

Team EOD :: All-Round Nice Guy
Want Better dbHelp Files?
Chris K
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 7th Oct 2003
Location: Lake Hylia
Posted: 12th Jul 2005 23:19
Does everyone remember when Raven swore that HL2 would be crap and Doom 3 would be the best game ever?

And that he knew because he'd played them both months before they came out?

And that Doom 3 had been made deliberately worse on PC so that it would be the same as the Xbox version?

I do.

Oh yes.

My Showcase - It's DBpro-tastic
Raven
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 23rd Mar 2005
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 13th Jul 2005 00:41
You remember many things, doesn't make them true.
I firmly stand by what I said to.

I don't believe that Half-Life 2 is worth the hype, and I feel that Doom 3 is a very stunning game.

The problem with both games is really getting them to play on even half-reasonable computers. Doom 3 for example needs a more powerful Graphics Cards, where-as Half-Life 2 requires a more powerful Processor.

In both cases neither game runs on thier so-called Minimum Specifications, not at a speeed I'd consider reasonable anyways.

Hell, Half-Life 2 runs at only just a reasonable speed on a P4 2.5GHz / 512MB / GeForce 5200 (35fps).. if the action gets pretty thick though your looking at that FPS crashing quicker sugar addict.

Doom 3 again on the same machine barely scratches the surface of reasonable FPS (well unless you kick it down into GF3/4 mode then you get a very healthy 60fps).

As far as the Doom single-player goes, I find it absolutely crap hearing 'there was no zone targeting available'. That is total BS!
Doom 3 has a map for each character so that you can define which areas take more damage. What's more you do more damage directly based on the physics of the bullets your firing.

You shoot a Zombie in the chest with a shotgun your looking at 2-3hits, in the heat it's a 1-hit Kill. That isn't true everytime though, because you've got to be pretty close. This is something people forget about weapons like this. A pistol has an effective stopping range of what 250m? In Doom it's the same deal, you've got an effective stopping range of a few hundred meters and when your outside of that range bullets do much much less Damage.

It should take 3-5 Pistol shots to kill a Zombie in the Head. If you go for the chest or gut then your looking at unloading an entire clip and they might even still keep comming.

While yes Doom 3 has scripted triggers to let some creatures out, this wasn't always the case. id Software have *always* used Triggered events, this is just something that isn't going to change. That said you can't claim that Half-Life 2 wasn't full of these very same scripted events.

The same goes for the AI itself. Yes many of the Hell Demons just run at you in Doom 3, but the Zombie Marines will quite often work in groups against you; on occasions I even saw them using parts of the scenary against you. Some threw barrels hoping to shoot them with a pot shot, others kicked moveable objects in order to create cover.

When again we put this against the Half-Life 2 AI, I don't ever remember ANY of the Combine working as a team. Quite often they'd just run at you, or stay behind thier cover. They didn't even have the same intelligence as the Marines in HL1 where they would run off if they got injured.

In my eyes both games AI was a HUGE let-down compared to what could've been. Yet while Half-Life 2 is praised for it's solution, Doom 3 isn't? ... But they have almost identical AI Systems, so how does that make sense?

The way I see it, people with Doom simply focused on the fact that it was pitch black throughout the game. As far as so many people seem to be conserned,
not being able to see what your doing + slow gameplay = bad game.

While no doubt many will disagree with me instantly on this, the fact kinda is that this is true for most people. They didn't see the point in constantly flicking between the flashlight and gun.
Although yes it is weird how they didn't have then attached to the guns, the fact is that the darker style of the game really ment you walked around defenseless and see what was comming... or try to shoot at the glowing dots rapidly comming towards you (only to find out it was computer console)

Personally I loved both games, as they're both true to the older games they're based on. Doom3 might seem slower paced, but run it on a computer that can happily handle it at 60-70fps and everything moves so damn quick it's terrifying in it's own right.

Half-Life 2 had a nice story, but unlike Doom 3 once you've played it once... it doesn't feel like there's anything left.
And driving for half the sodding game is what I would called P-A-D-D-I-N-G.

Sorry but while some sections were nice to have the vehicles, they were just woefully overused.

In my opinion, I don't see why Doom 3 was given such bad reviews or disliked by so many people.

'I don't like how creatures were unintelligent in Doom 3!' Bullcrap, creatures worked in teams often especially in later sections which made it extremely difficult and actually YES there were some areas where you were frantically fighting off a good 10-25 enemies at once. I remember on area in particular that had several lost souls, an archvile, a few imps, a Cacodemon, and 2 Revenants. When you come across a scene like that your thinking only 1 thing. 'Should I go change my trousers now?'

In my mind while everyone does keep harping on about Half-Life 2. Fact is that most people I know only play Counter-Strike, and never replayed the actual Half-Life 2 game.

I know that I completed it within 12hours on the day I bought it and while I've replayed a few scenes, I don't really feel like replaying the entire game again. I also didn't come away from the game thinking 'wow that section in the Prison with the Combine comming from every-side was a masterpiece.' no in-fact in my mind very little of the game stood out. Sure you can say 'well that's because the whole game was good.' .. I think it's more down to the game as a whole was very meh.

It was good, but not overly so. Where-as in Doom 3 I can remember several moments that truely had me spooked, some awesome cut-scene, bits where there were some really interesting Monster setups. So much of Doom 3 left me thinking about it after the gameplay.

The problem with games being known afterwards is really with the Modifications and online Play.
This is where Doom 3 just sucks. Because all of the Modifications games appear to be extending the Doom 3 universe, which isn't a bad thing as such.. but personally I'd like to see some 'Goldeneye' and 'Time Splitters' type mods being released. This is something that Half-Life 2 seems to be getting right now. This is something that made the original FPS crown go from id in the first place.

Quake 3 was good, as was UT but they were BOTH overshadowed by Half-Life's Mod community. There is no denying that really id's reign as top-dog ended with Quake 2. While new games will be built up to a point where people are expecting Carmack to walk on water... fact is that they have far much more to live up to.

So many people I know actually don't like the HL2 Single Player much, they'll rave at how good the game is; but then you'll find out that they didn't even complete SP and instead play CS all day.

I think this is why HL2 is currently consider the naggers of the FPS communty. Simply because they have Counter-Strike. Until id Software get something similar (ETQW) then it's not likely the crown will ever return to it's rightful place.

Personally I see Doom3 as finally id Software returning to what they do best. Senseless Atmospheric Single Player.

CattleRustler
Retired Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Aug 2003
Location: case modding at overclock.net
Posted: 13th Jul 2005 01:07
Quote: "I know that I completed it within 12hours on the day I bought it "


I have to check but I think that if you both ran and drove through the entire game, at full speed, non-stop, its physically impossible to finish the game in 12 hours. But again not sure.

DBP Plugins Latest: MSAccess, SQLServer, MySQL plugins for DBP
Chris K
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 7th Oct 2003
Location: Lake Hylia
Posted: 13th Jul 2005 02:02 Edited at: 13th Jul 2005 02:04
Exactly what I was thinking. There is no way you could complete it that quickly if you were actually playing it. Especially first time through.

Also,

Quote: "I don't ever remember ANY of the Combine working as a team. "


They do work as a team.

Quote: "on occasions I even saw them using parts of the scenary against you. Some threw barrels hoping to shoot them with a pot shot, others kicked moveable objects in order to create cover."


This is rubbish.

----

I think Raven would know better. This guy is Lead Animator for Midway, but Raven is Raven. He regularly makes sigs for fake games and says they're secret projects then changes them. How is Deliverance coming along?

My Showcase - It's DBpro-tastic
Ian T
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 12th Sep 2002
Location: Around
Posted: 13th Jul 2005 02:11
Quote: "I don't believe that Half-Life 2 is worth the hype, and I feel that Doom 3 is a very stunning game."


And you ate lots of paint as a child. End of story

If I looking for blog
actarus
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 29th Aug 2002
Location: 32 Light Years away
Posted: 13th Jul 2005 02:24
Both games rock,that's my feeling!

BlackBird thinks he owns the sky,
But he can't look me in the eye,
-Andy Bell
David R
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Sep 2003
Location: 3.14
Posted: 13th Jul 2005 03:28
Quote: "And you ate lots of paint as a child."

That would make him flammable too

(paint contains oil, for those who don't know )

[url=www.lightningstudios.co.uk][/url]
Eric T
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 7th Apr 2003
Location: My location is where I am at this time.
Posted: 13th Jul 2005 03:35
Jesus Christ! Raven, that was longer then the original article itself. I'm not joking either. You had around 1319 words, and the article had about 1100.

Thought I'd point that out.

http://blog.myspace.com/erict An Alternative to Mouse's blog. Now with more lowbrow opinions.** Warning - explicit language**
JoelJ
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Sep 2003
Location: UTAH
Posted: 13th Jul 2005 03:38
here's the problem:
people see FPS and they compare them...
you really CANT do that.

Halo and Quake 3 are both completly differnt games, the only things that are similar are FPS.
it's kindof like comparing Pokemon with Final Fantacy Tactics

Jimmy wannabe
OSX Using Happy Dude
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Aug 2003
Location: At home
Posted: 13th Jul 2005 03:43
Quote: "They do work as a team."

Where ?

George "Dubya" Bush says: 'I play AtomZ to keep my brain supple. Here it found be:http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~nickk'
http://spaces.msn.com/members/BouncyBrick/
CattleRustler
Retired Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Aug 2003
Location: case modding at overclock.net
Posted: 13th Jul 2005 05:42
Quote: "How is Deliverance coming along?"


rofl. Deliverpants!

DBP Plugins Latest: MSAccess, SQLServer, MySQL plugins for DBP
Chenak
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 13th Sep 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 13th Jul 2005 05:47
Things i didn't like in doom3:

- Way too dark, can barely see anything through 90% of the game
- Sometimes Bad Bad AI
- Levels were too similar throughout the whole game
- Cramp and small feeling maps all the time
- Couldnt explore mars landscapes, in the future you would think there would be more oxygen suits about...
- Only one or 2 scary and gross moments, then it gets real old
- Where did the pinkies vanish to mid way through the game?
- Missing monsters, wheres the thing that spawns those lost souls? invisible pinky? Those spider things (that spider thing in the game was no subsitute, orignal looks far more creepy)

Things I didn't like in half-life2:
- Poor AI in some cases
- Lack of alien weaponry
- No Zen? where are the weird alien worlds and alien beasties?
- CRAP online update and verification... steam... /shudder
- Those flying lobster things with machine guns... everywhere... what the hell
- No big bosses, apart from the lame lobsters

Meh they were both alright imo, but huge let downs in terms of gameplay and storyline. It's starting to look like these guys are gonna keep on making games focused on candy like advanced graphics and physics rather than gameplay. This is what's gonna screw over companies like ID.
Jeku
Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Jul 2003
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 13th Jul 2005 12:55
Raven - Didn't you say that you couldn't play Half-Life 2 when you first got it because Steam locked you out? Then you had to repurchase it again in the future so you could finally finish it? Sounds like a lot of work for a subpar game. Hell, I wouldn't purchase the most spectacular game ever made twice.

My "everyone else has one so why can't I?" blog: http://www.jeku.com/blog/
Raven
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 23rd Mar 2005
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 13th Jul 2005 16:40
Quote: " Didn't you say that you couldn't play Half-Life 2 when you first got it because Steam locked you out? Then you had to repurchase it again in the future so you could finally finish it? Sounds like a lot of work for a subpar game. Hell, I wouldn't purchase the most spectacular game ever made twice."


true, but I've never said I disliked the game.
It's more my personal view on both games as a fan of both.

It just hacks me off having to listen to the crap from Half-Life 2 fanboys spout off about "how great thier game is compared to Doom 3". What like Doom 3 EVER got any reasonable media coverage.

Everytime something new about Doom 3 was unveiled or new footage instantly you'd see a brand new HD-Video of the same damn create in Half-Life 2 that would break apart now with super high-resolution textures. Ooooh.

Doom 3 quite frankly is the product less of Game vs Game, and more a product of the press. Valve have been and will continue to be gods in the eyes of the press, because they're Ex-Microsoft and they know how the hell to spin everything.

Half-Life was late by 12-months, Half-Life 2 was late by 12months... Valve were never complained at once about these game being late, but were given a 'well obviously they're taking thier time to make it just right'

yet id were what, 6months late with Doom 3 because of Microsoft wanting it on the X-Box first. So let's all bitch about how id always miss thier release dates when this was the first game that has taken them longer to and more involved to develop than any of thier other previous titles to date.

More to the point id delivered exactly what they promised. I'm still waiting on thier realistic team-work AI to appear in Half-Life 2!! And some real story rather than just a storyline tag for each section and some flimsy go between excuses.

But no doubt i'll be bitch at again because i'm not agreeing with the almighty HL2 Fanboy masses!

You know there is a Paragraph at the end in smaller print of that entire article. Read it!

Eric T
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 7th Apr 2003
Location: My location is where I am at this time.
Posted: 13th Jul 2005 17:47 Edited at: 13th Jul 2005 18:01
Quote: "Half-Life was late by 12-months, Half-Life 2 was late by 12months... Valve were never complained at once about these game being late, but were given a 'well obviously they're taking thier time to make it just right'"


Which world were you living in at this time? I know I bitched, I know most of the hl2fallout community bitched. I know planethalflife bitched.

As for HL1 being late, I don't remember it even having a 1997 release date. Which is also kind of funky as Quake was May 31, 1996/ And if HL was based off of the Quake 1 Engine (highly modified too) that would mean, it'd of probably had 1 and 3/4's a year (maybe 2 years depending on when they got access to the Quake Engine) to of been finished in November 1997, which would of been, by the 1 year late statement, its release date. I'm not sure about you, but I sure as hell couldn't make HL in a year and 3/4's. Not even 2 years.

So, if they had a 1997 release date originally in place, then they were obviously on large amounts of LSD. And I'm talking damned large amounts.

But who's counting anyway?

edit: Oldest existing HL1 article I could find. Looks like they only missed their release date by a few weeks. http://pc.ign.com/articles/065/065027p1.html

Quote: "yet id were what, 6months late with Doom 3 because of Microsoft wanting it on the X-Box first. So let's all bitch about how id always miss thier release dates when this was the first game that has taken them longer to and more involved to develop than any of thier other previous titles to date."


They were more then 6 months late IIRC. Games aren't delivered on the time that is stated the first time around anymore. Just look at STALKER. How late is that now?

Edit - Did a little checking, seems 6months is about right, give or take a month.

But on a side note, I have rarely heard anyone bitch about ID missing their release date for Doom 3.

Quote: "More to the point id delivered exactly what they promised."


Thought I was promised a good game... with some half decent gameplay. Instead what I got was, Sprint Sprint, Shoot at imp, oh no! Imp behind me now!, turn, shoot, enter next room, rinse and repeat. If I wanted a game that I'd be doing the same thing level after level, I'd play tetris. And $55 (round $60 after tax)for it? The more I think about it, the more i realize I sure got ripped off.

Not saying Half-Life 2 had the best gameplay either, Though it did interest me alot more then Doom 3. Atleast I had some variety here and there. Shoot Shoot, crowbar, shoot shoot, throw a barrel so the tounge guys would eat it and not me, hop in a vehicle, shoot around for a while, hop out, open a floodgate. I could go on forever. That and when I purchased it for $60 (No tax as i did the silver package through steam) I also got CS: Source, The entire back catalog of steam, HL1 Source, and when it comes out DoD Source.

I got a hell of alot more bang for my buck from valve then I did from ID. And then the expansion? It was good the first time through. I played it like hell. But it was only about 9 hours, and eventually started feeling the same as its unexpanded buddy... with the exception of the grabber.

http://blog.myspace.com/erict An Alternative to Mouse's blog. Now with more lowbrow opinions.** Warning - explicit language**
BearCDPOLD
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 16th Oct 2003
Location: AZ,USA
Posted: 13th Jul 2005 17:51
My computer would die trying to run Doom 3, and just about pukes running the HL2 demo at minimum settings. So I went and rented Doom 3 for Xbox. I heard they cut a lot out, probably annoying exploratory sequences, probably made the game a lot more fun. I'm too young to have played the originals, and so I don't have any past work of ID's to go on except a Quake 3 demo. Doom 3 was good old fashioned fun, it didn't have any dynamic gameplay whatevers but it entertained me because I got to shoot zombies, and later slice them up with a chainsaw.

The HalfLife 2 demo was also a lot of fun, I'd beaten HalfLife, and it was pretty much the same type of gameplay, just new toys and physics to play with, so it was fun. It wasn't artistic or experimental--it's not supposed to be.

Both of those games were supposed to be continuations of the originals with really really sexy engines. I would personally like to see a game totally opposite of Doom 3 made using Doom 3's engine. Maybe an RPG or an adventure title.

Was I too long? I'm bored and typing rather quickly.

Crazy Donut Productions
Current Project: A Redneck game
Raven
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 23rd Mar 2005
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 13th Jul 2005 20:42
Quake was released 1994 (November I think)
Quake II was released December 1997 (in the UK)

There was a demo out for Quake II in Sepetember though, was quite big news.

Half-Life originally was built from the Quake Engine, they licensed the Quake II engine as well which is no doubt the reason for the DLL design but the main code was heavily modified Quake.

It is possible to license and use engines in-development. For example Quake 4 and Return to Castle Wolfenstein/Medal of Honour Allied Assault both were developed while id were working on the parent engine.

Also you probably won't have it but I'm sure one of the more anal 'Ravenists' will love to try and prove me wrong on this, but Page 19 PC Gamer UK Issue 51 : Half-Life slipped to March 31 (1998)

What you might also find more interesting on that list is
Prey (3D Realms) February 1999, and Daikatana (Eidos) April (1998).

Yeah.. and I thought Daikatana and Duke Nukem Forever were a little late HAHA. ^_^

I'll try to find the mag that has the original 1997 release in it.
To be honest with Half-Life you can see a very physical difference in quality between what they were going to release and what they did release. While most of the world wasn't really clued up on release dates of games at that point generally only knowing that month that they were out, it wasn't a huge issue. Yet I do feel the extra work on lighting and redoing all of the models definately gave the game it's own style in the end. Worth the wait.

With Half-Life 2 though we didn't really see that. From what I saw, nothing really changed between 2003 and 2004. Source Code leak apparently. But it would've been impossible to recode the entire engine again within 12months given the scale of it. The story just doesn't fly. Meh. I just saw an old advert for Malice.

Now THAT was an innovative FPS game! You ever play Malice? Bloody Awesome Mod for Quake.

Jeku
Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Jul 2003
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 14th Jul 2005 05:32
Quote: "But it would've been impossible to recode the entire engine again within 12months given the scale of it. The story just doesn't fly. Meh. "


Who said the entire engine was recoded? It's not like the engine was physically removed from their computers in that they didn't still have their own copies.

And the only code that would have to be redone would be network code, to patch the security holes that would have been revealed upon the leak.

And are you speculating that the code wasn't leaked? Because if you are, then you need to read up on the arrests that occured because of it.

My "everyone else has one so why can't I?" blog: http://www.jeku.com/blog/
Izzy545
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 18th Feb 2004
Location:
Posted: 14th Jul 2005 06:44
Quote: "Who said the entire engine was recoded? It's not like the engine was physically removed from their computers in that they didn't still have their own copies.

And the only code that would have to be redone would be network code, to patch the security holes that would have been revealed upon the leak.

And are you speculating that the code wasn't leaked? Because if you are, then you need to read up on the arrests that occured because of it."


The code wasn't leaked, it was a story Valve made up to back up the extra time they were taking for their game.

The people arrested were framed.

They are now doomed to live their lives out in the hellhole that is valves personal prison.


Ian T
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 12th Sep 2002
Location: Around
Posted: 14th Jul 2005 07:10
Quote: "The people arrested were framed."


Doubt it.

If I looking for blog
Coding Fodder
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 25th Sep 2003
Location: Somewhere in my cerebralcortex
Posted: 14th Jul 2005 07:13
If you want an explaination of what John Carmack is really concentrating on go to http://www.armadilloaerospace.com/n.x/Armadillo/Home

I personaly like the switch

Something really catchy that makes people stop and think about the meaning of life and say to themselves "My but thats clever"
Ian T
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 12th Sep 2002
Location: Around
Posted: 14th Jul 2005 07:28
Quote: "Our fearless leader, John Carmack, will lead us to space and, well, outer space. Please feel free to make yourselves at home and check out our journey."


He's still got some attitude eh


Nice to see his higher math skills going to use for the good of mankind. Now that's a game industry hero, huh ?

If I looking for blog
Coding Fodder
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 25th Sep 2003
Location: Somewhere in my cerebralcortex
Posted: 14th Jul 2005 07:34
Quote: "He's still got some attitude eh"


I just hope he gets some altitude...

Something really catchy that makes people stop and think about the meaning of life and say to themselves "My but thats clever"
aks74u
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd Jun 2004
Location: arizona
Posted: 14th Jul 2005 14:45
it's amazing how into games people get...

Over And Out.
Arkheii
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 15th Jun 2003
Location: QC, Philippines
Posted: 15th Jul 2005 02:26
I never got to play any of them. I played DeusEx IW instead ^_^

On Carmack...
http://www.armadilloaerospace.com/n.x/johnc/Recent%20Updates/Archive

He's bored too.
Raven
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 23rd Mar 2005
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 15th Jul 2005 03:20
Quote: "And are you speculating that the code wasn't leaked? Because if you are, then you need to read up on the arrests that occured because of it."


Arrests yes, but after the arrests... bam all news of the event just disappeared. There were no follow up stories about the trial, or anything like that.

Also you need to change more than just the Network Code for securities, about a year or so ago I'd probably be there wondering why the heck it took them so bloody long to repair what is technically a very small area of thier code. Yet the issues of what could be done with the leaked SDK are far more proliphic.

It's technology Valve had worked on for 4-5years at the time. For it to be suddenly spread for everyone to see. It just seems unbelievable to me that everything conserning the issue disappeared entirely after the 'FBI Arrests'. Sorry but usually Americans love a BIG Trial where you see people getting what they deserve... yet nothing? In-fact throughout the entire time the investigations were going on, Valve never once put themselves out-there getting angry or anything. In-fact you saw some of them in inverviewed about it (like the Doug Lombardi one from ECTS) and he just kinda dismisses the whole thing trying to talk about the game again.

If that was me some [censored] little punk had broken in and stolen all my source, I'd want blood! There is no way I'm spending 5 years of sweat and soul creating what could be the single most groundshaking game in the past 5 years... only for some little whelp to be "h4h4! p4wn3|> j00!"

Another thing that gets me is the hacker was supposidely american.
No offense but no one English can hack reasonably enough to by-pass the security. I also don't believe the whole story of getting through via Outlook Panes using a Keylogger.

I mean a) that is possibly the most amature way to achieve this and FFS Norton, BlackIce, etc. all protect against that.. Hell Outlook had, had an update that year to fix that very sodding issue! So we get to point b) where even if he had been able to get key-logs there is no way he could've remotely qued a download transfer from within Windows without not only by-passing the local password, but the network password (this is NOT something Windows send unencrypted, you've got to get back 2048-bit SSL3 ... yeah good-[censored]-luck trying that without Deep Blue!)

Sorry, but while the story holds up nicely for the press who know everything about hacking from movies as do the public. The reality of the situation is there were just so many issues with what they said. What's more is if you did happen to come across any of the 3 packages that appeared on the Internet, you would've noticed that in all 3 packages while you could build them had key components missing. (Basically all that was physically released was an unclean version of what you get in the SDK)

I firmly believe that not only was the source code never in danger but it was all an elaborate hoax design to over-hype and cause gamers to feel sorry for Valve. Despite thier game being over a year late, and almost $20 more expensive than other retail games. On release.

They were going up against Halo 2, Doom 3, Painkeeper, etc. I mean these aren't small fry games. Valve constantly kept the media's attention going whenever it would just die down about the game with yet more samey screenshots and videos that quite frankly at some point someone should put them altogether because they basically make up the entire sodding game. Well Valve would 'have breaking news of what is happening with their source code theft'.

So yeah, forgive me if I'm just a teency bit skeptical about the whole thing.

Jeku
Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Jul 2003
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 15th Jul 2005 15:56
Ahahaha take off your tinfoil hat, Raven

That is the most ridiculous story I've heard in a long time. Thanks for the great read!

My "everyone else has one so why can't I?" blog: http://www.jeku.com/blog/
Merranvo
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th May 2005
Location: That ^ is a Orange
Posted: 18th Jul 2005 02:50
Quote: "No offense but no one English can hack reasonably enough to by-pass the security."


Give Me a Few Books... I learn very fast.

Quote: "I also don't believe the whole story of getting through via Outlook Panes using a Keylogger."


Some Firewalls have a weakness. They allow full transmition (or rather, more ports) inside the network. This is a weakness in terms of security, but when you are contantly using certain ports, lazy people leave them open instead of closing them. I guess I should have said that the companys have a weakness.

Also, on the topic of firewalls. They typically only block the ports (For the most part) that can result in the COMPUTER being hacked. This means that, *for example*, the internet port could be used to send the data. Possibly as a text pacet to a PHP fourm.

Futhermore, no self respected hacker makes the idiot's mistake of implimenting a key logger without a self send feature. If this guy REALLY made it to send the data only if he gives a command he is worse then, well, I.

The only issue about the KeyLogger is the fact that you still need a mule (For those of you who don't know, a mule would be a guy who works at home as well as at work and moves data back and forth between work and home. This is another way to get data). To get the program in the system. And you haven't said anything about that. Of course a intern could have been bribed to do it...

Blasting, Shooting, and Maiming. Aspects of Modern Gamming.

Login to post a reply

Server time is: 2024-11-15 13:47:50
Your offset time is: 2024-11-15 13:47:50