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DarkBASIC Discussion / Dark Basic Vs Pro

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Green Fox
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Posted: 26th Jul 2005 06:16
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I bought DarkBASIC and now I'm thinking pro might have bean a better choice. What are the big diffences? Is there a way to upgrade form DarkBASIC to Pro? What should I do?
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Underworld 1020
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Posted: 26th Jul 2005 09:33 Edited at: 26th Jul 2005 09:33
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Well, DarkBASIC(DBC) and DarkBASIC Pro(DBPro) do have many differences. DBC has less commands and power then DBPro, but I would recomend using DBC first, simply because DBPro has so much stuff that it may get newbies confused and off track. Also one big difference is that DBC is no longer being updated, which means that everything in DBC will stay the way it is, meaning if their are any errors or bugs in the program they will never be fixed. And of course their are a few errors in DBC. Also DBC is not good with 2d game and its not that great for 3d either, but what it is good at is expanding your mind into the world of programming, you'll learn different basic skills that you can apply to any programming language. DBPro on the other hand is a little complex for beginners in my opinion, but that doesn't mean that its not possible, its just more advanced or more Professional. DBPro also has better graphics in the editor in itself, and more buttons and stuff too. Also more options and settings. And it does very well with 2d games as well as 3d games. And one of the most important differences is that DBPro is sill being updated, which means their still making sure everything works, so any errors or bugs will get fixed unlike DBC.

I don't believe their is any way to upgrade from DBC to DBPro because I also wanted to upgrade like right after I bought DBC. I was in the store looking for a programming language to make games in, I knew Basic and I tried C++, but it was too much for me at the time. I bought DBC and then found out about this site and learned about DBPro, I was pretty ticked, but I got over it. Basically if your a beginner, then DBC will be fine for quite a while, and if your expereinced then you should get DBPro.



Check Out My Site Here: http://www.freewebs.com/underworld1020/
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Relativity
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Posted: 26th Jul 2005 09:34
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For a list of differences go to http://darkbasicpro.thegamecreators.com/?f=compare. If you have DarkBASIC you can get a discount when you upgrade to DBPro, but I wouldn't do it right away. If I were you, I would experiment with DBC first and make sure it's right for you and that you would get a real benefit from the added features of DBPro before making any monetary commitment.

"It's against my programming to impersonate a deity!"~C-3P0
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BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 26th Jul 2005 10:56
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I got DBC for my birthday a couple of years ago. Now I dearly wish I had gotten Pro.

It's not just about the lack of commands having to do with mesh deformation, sprites, or shaders, there are some serious problems I have with the language syntax features. The most notable being the lack of any way to make a global variable. I have to use workarounds like in CodeKeeper and DarkEdit, but those don't always work properly and I've resorted to writing my own little C++ app that will convert everything for me perfectly without any bugs.

I once thought limbs were a limitation. Then I saw that you could have a little bit of fun with them. The only problem is the LIMB ANGLE and LIMB DIRECTION commands are buggy, good luck with that one!

There is an upgrade offer fomr DBC to DBPro, you save $15. Though if I were you I'd just get the super cheap download version. You can get all those models and stuff you missed out on in a DarkMatter pack or on turbosquid, and the music that comes with it really isn't that great anyway. So there's no real use for the free media they give you, if you want fill ins you can easily use primitives or make block men in trueSpace3.2 for free.

Even better though: if you know C++ just get DarkSDK. There's a whole bunch of useful organizational features in C++ that you just can't get in BASIC (mostly it's OO, but then again DBC doesn't even have ELSE IF for pete's sake).

Another reason I loathe DBC at the moment: #include. I made a post about replacing this with CodeKeeper's tapes, unfortunately CodeKeeper tapes are buggy as hell. The reason I like TAPE is because in comparison to #include you can declare variables and put other statements up (just like in C++, wowie kaboodles!).

You wouldn't be wasting your money upgrading. I have an older machine (1.3ghz Geofroce 2 MX 64mb 256mb ram) and DBP programs tend to run faster than DBC programs.


I'm going to eat you!
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waffle
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Posted: 26th Jul 2005 12:29
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also,
when considering DBPro vs DBC consider target system specs.

DBC needs only DX7 and 3D card is optional. 1Ghz min is recommended.
Almost all PCs these days meet this spec.

DBPro and DGSDK need DX9.c and a good 3D card (256MB recommended)
and then there are all those shaders ... special card required
for shader support. Read that as "NEW" and not "GENERIC".

If just starting out on a game project, stick with DBC. When you have reached the limits of DBC and are ready for shaders, BSP and MD2+ then upgrade. Until then, save your money. Sure, DBPro works the same way, but you already own DBC, and the syntax is almost the same, so project conversion later should be pretty straight forward.

I have DBC and DBPro; they both have there place. I like DBC for older PCs although the screens do flicker a bit under XP.
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BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 26th Jul 2005 13:36
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I think it depends on what you're using Pro for though, some DBP games run crazy fast on my Geforce 2. Though I can't deny that the poor thing was dying trying to run BigBrother's games.


I'm going to eat you!
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Grog Grueslayer
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Posted: 26th Jul 2005 14:00
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Me, I hate limits... just get Pro. Pro has so many new commands you'll have a month or two of fun just playing with the new commands. Pro has everything Classic has and much more.

Here's the page with the differences between Classic and Pro:
http://darkbasicpro.thegamecreators.com/?f=compare

Here's the Darkbasic Pro tour:
http://darkbasicpro.thegamecreators.com/?f=tour

As you can see Pro is superior to Classic. If you like Classic... you'll LOVE Pro. Get Pro asap.
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Drew Cameron
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Posted: 26th Jul 2005 17:59
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I think DBC is perfect if you're new to DB.

Keep working on it, until you need to upgrade to PRO. Getting started in DBC is alot easier than beginning in PRO, so you haven't wasted your money as far as I can tell.


Katie Holmes does not endorse D&C or Drew Cameron.
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master programmer
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Posted: 29th Jul 2005 05:01
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Exactly what Drew Cameron said, its way easier to learn on DarkBASIC Classic. And, Classic isn't all that bad either. Sure, you may not get all of the new features, but Classic is cheaper and you get pretty much the same thing. So, I like Classic. Despite any missing commands.

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Metrion
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Posted: 29th Jul 2005 18:27
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Yup, evrything these guys said and one more thing...

I'm using DBC right now, and i'm trying to make an fps... DBPro was like built to make fps's! It calculates collision stuff sooo much faster using its built in BSP collision! It totally rocks!

But yeah, if u'r a noob, use DBC and work ur way up to dbpro.

If practice makes perfect and nobody is perfect, then why practice?
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BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 30th Jul 2005 09:43
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I don't know how often DarkBasic board frequenters (that can't be a word ) look at WIP, but I wrote something that allows you to use global from DarkEdit and Tape from CodeKeeper--except unlike Codekeeper it tapes every time. It will make a new source file for you to compile, soon to add command line functionality.


I'm going to eat you!
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blanky
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Posted: 30th Jul 2005 20:08
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Meh - Not for me, BearCDP, I'm a CodeKEEPER but I just use #include

Anyway, DBC may be featureless, but it bloody WORKS.

Try getting a full-featured FPS written in DBPro 5.6 working in 5.8 without modifying any code...

Syntax Error - Learn to type, you fool!
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r333
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Posted: 1st Aug 2005 17:04 Edited at: 1st Aug 2005 22:26
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Yeah, for most casual people DBC will be plenty, while for others, DBP will be the best. I had a friend who saved for a year to buy DBP, then realized it was super overkill, and he could have bout DBC for 1/2 the price.

Thanks!(for..whatever it is you did...)
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Xolatron old
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Posted: 1st Aug 2005 17:32
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I only have DBpro, but from what I hear DBC is much better for bugs. Some people on the DBpro forum talk about how they are going to buy DBC just because it has less bugs, even though they already have pro

You can get an upgrade from DBC to pro for less money - and you'll still have both products . DBpro is really quite different (I have used the DBC trial), and having both products could be nicer at times. Also, DBC produces much smaller EXEs. Also remember that many good DBC commands (save bitmap, good sliding collision, static objects) have been removed from DBpro, and most people find they have to buy 3rd party plugins such as Nuclear Glory Collision.

-Xol

Ion Extension Pack: 50 fncs
IonRay IDE
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Nytmayre
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Posted: 1st Aug 2005 18:04
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If you need any more info, check out one of my threads :
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=55662&b=7

If it doesn't work, search for "The Big question" on the thread search at the bottom.

Hope I can help.

An Eternal Struggle between good and evil continues...Each side looking for an advantage...Each side looking for me.

Uh... What's the point of this bit?
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blanky
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Posted: 1st Aug 2005 20:24
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You can't compare the two (really) - Effectively, you could say (so what if it's wrong?) that DBC is DarkBASIC version 1.0 and DBPro is DarkBASIC version 2.0 (like with Apache).

[Insert extremely witty comment here] :: Add me to MSN if you like, but don't expect any big favours [unless you like VB6]. ... IDK!!
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Darkbasic MADPSP
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Posted: 1st Aug 2005 20:30
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Dbpro was my starting choice reasons more capabilitys and much more to add in your games

life's a game and a games a life More games at www.freewebs.com/halorc
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Satchmo
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2005 15:32
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WAIT!
Have all of you forgotten what about DARK BASIC CLASSIC ENHACED!

New episodes of family guy sunday!
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blanky
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2005 15:52
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Crap.

[Insert extremely witty comment here] :: Add me to MSN if you like, but don't expect any big favours [unless you like VB6]. ... IDK!!
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Satchmo
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2005 20:24
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meh
sorry but screw pro I dont find that dbce limites me to anything.

New episodes of family guy sunday!
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Nytmayre
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2005 20:38
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Classic advanced is basically Darkbasic 1.5. I think that for the extra money, it's not really worth it.

Or maybe I'm talking about Classic lite? Idon't know. And who cares?
er...

An Eternal Struggle between good and evil continues...Each side looking for an advantage...Each side looking for me.

Uh... What's the point of this bit?
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Darkbasic MADPSP
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2005 20:46
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dbpros the best with all the add ons

life's a game and a games a life More games at www.freewebs.com/halorc
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TDK
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2005 20:52
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Have to agree with the majority of posters so far - start with DBC.

To be perfectly honest, I don't think there's much *visually* you can do in DB Pro that you can't do in Classic.

DB Pro just makes it easier with extra commands and is a fair bit faster - which if your game programming is anything like mine means you can crash your PC much faster!

The enhanced version of Classic gives you a good chunk of the DB Pro goodies - apart from the extra speed that is.

In a nutshell, it is possible to create more or less anything done in DB Pro in Classic, but it involves more work and will be slower.

Classic is also a pretty stable platform and as such, is ideal for newcomers new to 3D programming, knowing that once you have reached it's limits, you have the option to upgrade to DB Pro.

I have Pro, but to be honest, I've not found anything I couldn't do in DBC yet...

TDK_Man
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Metrion
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2005 23:06
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@TDK:

Yeah, but what about commands like "set culling on" and "make fire particles" and all of the UDT's?

If practice makes perfect and nobody is perfect, then why practice?
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TDK
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2005 23:37 Edited at: 2nd Aug 2005 23:39
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There's a Cull flag in both the Set Matrix and Set Object commands in DBC.

Make Fire Particles may not be a command in DBC, but that doesn't mean you can't make fire particles. It just needs a bit of extra work. In fact there's also the advantage of you learning more about the subject in the process...

That's why I said "DB Pro just makes it easier with extra commands" and "it is possible to create more or less anything done in DB Pro in Classic, but it involves more work".

My point is that the extra commands in DB Pro were coded by someone and there's nothing to stop you writing the same code in your own DBC programs.

OK, there might be some things that you can do visually in DBP that you can't do in DBC, (I can't think of any and I don't want to start some competition to find something - lol). But, for a beginner, I can't think of anything major that would necessitate a beginner skipping DBC and jumping straight to DB Pro.

As for UDT's, yes they are a great help, but take them away and what can't you do?

TDK_Man
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Uncle Sam
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2005 02:53
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I think it's good to start with DBC, and buy some other media-maker programs also with the extra money, and then move on to DBPro, unless you're impatient.

--------------
Uncle Sam
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master programmer
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2005 05:19
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well, I just like DBC. I've used it a whole lot, and its been good to me (that sounded weird). If you want to spend the extra money for DB Pro, go ahead. If you're not willing to fork over more to learn and become good at program, why not check out DarkBASIC Classic.

--------------------------------------
Vote for Excelsis on the Puzzle Game Compo

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blanky
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2005 14:58
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Quote: "for DB Pro, go ahead. If you're not willing to fork over more to learn and become good at program, "


How does owning DBPro make you good at programming?

(Btw, your signature image is too big).

[Insert extremely witty comment here] :: Add me to MSN if you like, but don't expect any big favours [unless you like VB6]. ... IDK!!
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Zotoaster
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2005 15:50
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I agree with TDK, there not much diffrence really between dbc and dbpro (visually), its just that dbpro makes it all easier, which shoud mean that dbc is more pro than dbpro is..

besides.. the best programmers that i know program in dbc, i.e. ben gilbanks, kevin picone, TDK (heheh, thats right), and of course.. me^_^

Your signature has been erased by a mod because it's larger than 600x120...
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master programmer
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Posted: 4th Aug 2005 00:11 Edited at: 4th Aug 2005 00:13
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All right Blanky, 2 things:
First, that picture is not a signature, I add it to all of my messages manually.
Second, the signature picture can be 600 x 120, mine is 600 x 120. And if you have DBpro, you can BECOME good at programming, just like if you own a basketball you can BECOME good at basketball. Catch my drift?


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Metrion
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Posted: 4th Aug 2005 21:19
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@master programmer:

Eh, not so sure about that. I learnt almost no new things after learning DarkBasic. Of course I know other languages like Java and VB.NET, but still... if you want to learn programming, it's best you start off with VB.NET, move on to C++ (which i don't know ), move on to Java, and then to DarkBASIC. I'm not saying that DarkBASIC is hard or anything; what i'm saying is that you can't become GOOD at programmming by learning a language like this where the primitives of the language aren't that powerful like Java or C++.

If practice makes perfect and nobody is perfect, then why practice?
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BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 5th Aug 2005 06:36
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What you should do if you've already got DBC is learn some console app programming in C++ and then get the DarkSDK. Don't even bother with Pro.

That being said, how can there be no difference visually? What about the lock object on bug? What about shaders? They aren't complex, heck you can even just use a basic bump map from gameSpace Light and it will show up in Pro, but DBC is too old. My models from DarkMatter and any I throw together in gameSpace look smoother and don't lag as bad in DBP in comparison to DBC, and this is just the DBP demo we're talking about.


I'm going to eat you!
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master programmer
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Posted: 5th Aug 2005 06:55
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Is the lock object on bug that the light shows op on the lock object on? If so, I don't like that aspect either.

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TDK
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Posted: 5th Aug 2005 15:00
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BearCDP:

I don't think anyone has said that there is "no difference visually" between DBC and Pro. Personally, I said there wasn't "much" visually different - and there isn't.

More importantly, I was talking from the perspective of being used by someone completely new to programming. You don't need pixel shaders and bump mapping facilities to write Pong.

OK, anyone with programming or 3D skills already would definitely be advised to go for the more advanced features of DB Pro. Everyone else would be better off starting with DBC until their programming skills have developed.

TDK_Man
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Metrion
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Posted: 5th Aug 2005 16:29
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Hey all, I gotta question... which is easier and in the long end better to learn... C++ (Dark SDK) or DBPro?

If practice makes perfect and nobody is perfect, then why practice?
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BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 6th Aug 2005 08:45
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@master programmer-There's that one, and then one where it flips faces inside out of objects near the camera, not really fun but easy enough to work around.

@TDK-I see your point, and the guy who started this already had Classic, so no rush to get Pro.

Metrion, DB is a nice way to get introduced to programming concepts and is easy, but eventually you'll want to have a whack at C++ for use with not only DarkSDK but a multitude of other wonderful things.


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Me!
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Posted: 9th Aug 2005 15:12
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Quote: "Try getting a full-featured FPS written in DBPro 5.6 working in 5.8 without modifying any code...
"


ROFL try getting a 200 line app or demo working in 5.8 without alterations, almost all my old code will not run in 5.8

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Metrion
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Posted: 13th Aug 2005 21:29
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@BearCDP:

Hey, what is console app programming? I'm probably gonna start learning C++ later (like in 10 minutes ).

If practice makes perfect and nobody is perfect, then why practice?
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Dot Merix
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Quote: "From Waffle: DBPro and DGSDK need DX9.c and a good 3D card (256MB recommended)
"


You DO NOT need a 256mb video card to run darkbasic applications. In fact, you dont really need a 256mb video card for anything yet.



WindowsXP Home(Service pack 2), Athlon XP 2400+(2.1Ghz), 1GIG Ram, Ati Radeon 9800Pro 128MB.
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BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 14th Aug 2005 09:11 Edited at: 14th Aug 2005 09:14
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@Metrion

Console applications run in command prompts or DOS windows. When you start learning C++ on Windows you'll be writing console applications. Anything past that basic level typically requires knowledge of an API such as Win32 or DirectX.

Here's everyone's favorite C++ console program.

#include <iostream>

int main()
{
cout << "Hello World!";
return (0);
}

If you haven't worked in the command prompt before do this:

1. Create a new text file and call it whateveryawant.bat
2. Edit the file in notepad so that it reads:
echo Hello World!
pause
3. Save the file and exit notepad.
4. The file should have a goofy looking icon, run it like you would an exe. It should say something like:

C:\yattayatta\ echo Hello World!
Hello World!
C:\yattayatta\ pause
Press any key to continue

That is exactly what the output from the C++ program above will look like, minus the lines with the directory name and command, because batch files allow you to enter several DOS commands in a row, so it looks like somebody just typed a bunch of commands.

Please pardon me if I've insulted your intelligence or anything.


I'm going to eat you!
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Grog Grueslayer
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Posted: 14th Aug 2005 11:45
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c:\> copy con huh.bat
echo off
cls
echo What the heck??
(push F6 then enter)

c:\> huh
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Metrion
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Posted: 14th Aug 2005 16:57
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@BearCDP:

Thanks BearCDP. It really helps. And u certainly didn't insult my intelligence. I really needed a quick tutorial. I'm using Visual C++.NET 2003... would that work for console applications?

If practice makes perfect and nobody is perfect, then why practice?
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