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Work in Progress / Normal Map Generator

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MikeS
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Posted: 6th Aug 2005 05:41 Edited at: 6th Aug 2005 05:41
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A few users were interested in generating normal maps, and I'm just about finished with a tool that will make it very simple.

The normal map generation is complete, and it's only a matter of me adding some functionality to the GUI before it's ready to be released.

This tool will also has a host of other great features, like exporting to .dbo and viewing your model with different effects applied(plus exporting code).

Planned release is August 12,2005.

Screenshot:




A book? I hate book. Book is stupid.
(Formerly Yellow)

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Cian Rice
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Posted: 6th Aug 2005 07:08
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I'll definatly use it looking good so far.


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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 6th Aug 2005 12:31
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definately something I'll want, I mean it can work like a .3ds - dbo converter for me (because Cinema 4D isn't exactly .x friendly and the plugin Add suggestion gave me problems ) and well yeah normal maps will look attractive

http://seppukuarts.afraid.org

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MiR
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Posted: 6th Aug 2005 12:32
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Wow. That looks pretty. Though what does the generator do? Does it take a model and create a normalmap for it to make it look better or does it take a model and reduce it`s poligon count whilst using a normal map to make it look the same? I`m guessing at the first judging by the screenshot. Oh I wonder what my tails model would look like after being put though this. Can`t wait for the 12th.


Gimme teh votez!!!!
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MikeS
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Posted: 6th Aug 2005 18:02 Edited at: 6th Aug 2005 18:03
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@Anime Blood

Thanks. I'm sure you'll find good uses for it in Urbia Rising.

@Seppuku Geijutsu

Glad to hear this will be very useful to you. For future releases, I might even write my own and add a few other file formats. It's something I've always wanted to with DBP, and this may be the project to do it with.

@MiR

Quote: "Though what does the generator do?"


All you have to do is load your model and it's texture, and it'll create a normal map for you. The texture is the most important thing in order for the normal map to turn out well. This works similar to nVidia's normal filter. It doesn't actually use the model data like a true normal mapper, but just creates a heightmap out of the original texture, and then a normal map from that heightmap.

Here's what the Col_Z normal map(It's included with DBP, so go ahead and try it).


Polycount reduction is something definitly possible with the new vertex command set. I'll look into it, but I won't guareentee it by the 12th.

Quote: "Oh I wonder what my tails model would look like after being put though this."


If it's already textured, send it(model+texture) my way and I'll give you a preview.



A book? I hate book. Book is stupid.
(Formerly Yellow)

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 6th Aug 2005 18:43 Edited at: 6th Aug 2005 18:46
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looks cool, is it gonna be a free app? I mean I wouldn't of thought something like that would be released for money.

A little off topic, but where can I find other normal mappers that recduce your polycount and make it up in normal maps, I know Zbrush does, but thats a lil expensive for just normal mapping, I mean yours looks pretty awesome, I'm just curious

http://seppukuarts.afraid.org

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MikeS
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Posted: 6th Aug 2005 19:29
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Quote: "looks cool, is it gonna be a free app? I mean I wouldn't of thought something like that would be released for money."


Yeah, this is going to be a free tool. I can't really charge for it since there are other free alternatives around for what the program currently does.

Quote: "A little off topic, but where can I find other normal mappers that recduce your polycount and make it up in normal maps, I know Zbrush does, but thats a lil expensive for just normal mapping, I mean yours looks pretty awesome, I'm just curious "


Search for nVidia's melody. That or the DirectX SDK includes some progressive mesh tools that are very useful. Also, if you don't want to use my tool, you can try nVidia's normal filter+gimp2.0. That combination will do the same thing as my program, and it gives you a little more control over the normal maps that my program doesn't have yet.



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David T
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Posted: 6th Aug 2005 20:27
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Gotta admit, that normal mapped colz looks fantastic. Well done

"A book. If u know something why cant u make a kool game or prog.
come on now. A book. I hate books. book is stupid. I know that I need codes but I dont know the codes"
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Darkbasic MADPSP
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Posted: 6th Aug 2005 23:11
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Wow this is the best!

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 7th Aug 2005 01:30
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I'm sure I'll love ur app anyway, looks pretty smooth and nice from the screenies

http://seppukuarts.afraid.org

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Deadwords
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Posted: 7th Aug 2005 02:37
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Awsome application MikeS, it's awsome. The question is...is it free?

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MikeS
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Posted: 7th Aug 2005 02:53
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Thanks DavidT and DarkBasic MAD.

Quote: "I'm sure I'll love ur app anyway, looks pretty smooth and nice from the screenies "


Thanks Seppuku. The advantage to my app of course, is that you can see everything in realtime+ export the DBP code with other effects.

Thanks Skalex, and of course it's free.



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Joe Cooning
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Posted: 7th Aug 2005 08:32
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So how do you use a normal map? (would look it up, but why bother if someone else knows how)

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 7th Aug 2005 12:31
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So is it free?


joking, the question has been asked twice, so why not a third

http://seppukuarts.afraid.org

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MikeS
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Posted: 7th Aug 2005 17:28
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Quote: "So how do you use a normal map?"


Use it with the 'set bump mapping on' command in combination with the set point lighting command. The program will export all the code and some tips to ensure you get good results.



Quote: "So is it free?"




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Joe Cooning
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Posted: 7th Aug 2005 17:58
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That's sweet looking. How do you make a normal map (if you know any good reasouces to look up )

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MikeS
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Posted: 7th Aug 2005 18:08
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Google "bump map" and "normal map" alogrithms and search this forum a bit for help. GameDev and Flipcode have 100s of articles scattered in their forums and article sections as well.



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Deadwords
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Posted: 7th Aug 2005 18:15
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It's great. Sorry Seppuku Geijutsu, i not never seen you asked that...lol

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 7th Aug 2005 22:05
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its alright I'm used to not being noticed on these forums

http://seppukuarts.afraid.org

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Deadwords
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Posted: 8th Aug 2005 00:52
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lol i see what you means. i'm not really noticed too.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 8th Aug 2005 01:00
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I mean as when I make a post asking something or making a point, some else makes it, I thing the easiest way to get noticed is being infamous, worked for Hitler didn't it?

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TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 8th Aug 2005 13:38
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Wooh! Yeah!
Looks great can't wait to use it!

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MikeS
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Posted: 8th Aug 2005 21:16
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Thanks guys.




Progress is still going smoothly. I'll be sure to post another screenshot later tonight.



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David T
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Posted: 13th Aug 2005 00:09
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Is it still tonight?

"A book. If u know something why cant u make a kool game or prog.
come on now. A book. I hate books. book is stupid. I know that I need codes but I dont know the codes"
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Zotoaster
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Posted: 13th Aug 2005 00:15
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somehow i doubt it, but i wanted it for tonight.... waaaaah

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The admiral
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Posted: 13th Aug 2005 00:36
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Loks great ill definatly be using normal maps in my project if this all works out. I heard that you could use a very high poly model and make a normal map off it then apply the it to lower poly model thus having the same detail but less polys. Is this true will your programme do this??

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Deadwords
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Posted: 13th Aug 2005 04:45
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nooooooooooo MikeS, you lost the notion of time.. doh! we will never get normal map generator....doh!

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MikeS
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Posted: 13th Aug 2005 06:35
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I've still got 26 minutes!

Zipping and fixing a few things right now.



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MikeS
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Posted: 13th Aug 2005 07:09 Edited at: 3rd Jun 2006 06:31
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Uploading right now. I would've made deadline with 1 minute to spare, but it was taking forever to upload on apollo.

Anyway...Instructions to use are included. Basically just name your project, load your object, load your texture, and you'll be good to go.

[Link Removed Newer Version in progress]

Was fairly busy with a few things this week, so I didn't get very far with the GUI, but it's there nonetheless. Be sure to post pictures of your models so I know if I need to tweak anything or not.



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jwurmz
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Posted: 13th Aug 2005 07:25 Edited at: 13th Aug 2005 07:26
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I get an error after loading the texture:

ATI 9200, and I tried it in 32bit and 16bit. Any ideas?

"Creativity is knowing how to hide your sources" - Einstein

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MikeS
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Posted: 13th Aug 2005 07:29 Edited at: 13th Aug 2005 07:34
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The resolution for the program is 1280 by 960 by 32. I'd think your video card would be able to suppot this.

I'll search around the DBP forums to see if I can come up with anything.



[edit]

From what I've found, best thing to do will be to make sure your drivers are updated.

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=56575&b=1
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=36035&b=1
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=21483&b=1

If you're still having problems, I'll look into adding some lower resolution options tomorrow. For now, I'm off to bed.



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jwurmz
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Posted: 13th Aug 2005 07:36 Edited at: 13th Aug 2005 07:38
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my max res is 1024x768

can't you just whip up a smaller version?

[EDIT] Oops, nevermind [EDIT]

Thanks

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Deadwords
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Posted: 13th Aug 2005 16:36
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I've got the same error message than jwurmz

What happened? My card supports 32bits by sure: Nvidia Geforce 6800GT

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Sephnroth
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Posted: 13th Aug 2005 17:19
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Works well here, well done Only two gripes: some sort of bug was failing to load the texture image if the image wasnt in the same directory as the exe (kinda makes a browse for files dialog a bit usless XD) and 2nd I really think ANY utility out there should have an option to run in windowed mode. I tend to have alot of utils open at once, flick between them as i work and be messenging people on msn etc as I go - games can be fullscreen but utilities should -at least- have an option to turn windowed mode on ^^

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David T
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Posted: 13th Aug 2005 17:47
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I'd imagine the error people are getting could be related to the maximum res their monitor supports?

-

Works very well here Mike. I couldn't get a clear view on Colz as I couldn't move hte camera vertically up, but from what I saw from the normal mapped model it definately looked different. On my card though it looks a little dark so I couldn't see the true extent, but there was defiantely a positive difference.

"A book. If u know something why cant u make a kool game or prog.
come on now. A book. I hate books. book is stupid. I know that I need codes but I dont know the codes"
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Sephnroth
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Posted: 13th Aug 2005 17:51
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shift to move the camera up
control to move the camera down
mouse moved to edge of the screens to move it left, right, forwards and backwards
left and right arrow to, grr, rotate the model (make it rotate the camera, not the models! XD)
up and down arrow to rotate the models on a different axis

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Louiz ofRohr
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Posted: 13th Aug 2005 19:24
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Cool.. Really really nice, Mike..
Runs very well and the result
is pretty realistic.. Good job

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David T
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Posted: 13th Aug 2005 19:49 Edited at: 13th Aug 2005 19:52
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Quote: "shift to move the camera up"


Ah - oops - must have missed that in the readme

ps - Mike, just had a problem.

I don't know if you have DM2 but if you do, I tried to open the Security actor and I got "could not load image at line 45".

This may be because

- The model is not in the root normal map generator folder
- The model has two texture files

Would love to get this working

"A book. If u know something why cant u make a kool game or prog.
come on now. A book. I hate books. book is stupid. I know that I need codes but I dont know the codes"
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MikeS
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Posted: 13th Aug 2005 21:24
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@jwurmz
Quote: "can't you just whip up a smaller version?"


I will be planning on adding an option to change resolutions, based on the feedback I'm getting so far.

@Skalex

Skalex, see the above threads and see if those help any.

@Sephnroth

Quote: "some sort of bug was failing to load the texture image if the image wasnt in the same directory as the exe (kinda makes a browse for files dialog a bit usless XD) "

Thanks for spotting this. I'll look into it tonight.

Quote: "I really think ANY utility out there should have an option to run in windowed mode. "

Agreed. For now full screen was used for performance reasons, but adding a windowed mode is definitly a good idea.


Thanks Louiz ofRohr


@David T

Quote: "I don't know if you have DM2 but if you do, I tried to open the Security actor and I got "could not load image at line 45"."

I don't have DM2, but I had the same problem loading a DM1 model. Image 45 shouldn't be the one causing the problem, as that's just part of the interface. weird. Loading multiple textures isn't built in yet, so that's definitly something more for me to consider.

Thanks for all the feedback guys.

I'm setting the date for the next beta to be the August 15th (2005).

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Deadwords
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So, it's my monitor...Noooooooooooo
MikeS, i emailed you.

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MiR
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Oh. The 12th has passed already. I never did finish that tails so I`ll just try it with whatever is lying around. Looks great though could you add a fps counter so I can test the performance diference between the normal mapped version and the non mapped version?


Gimme teh votez!!!!
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MikeS
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Posted: 15th Aug 2005 03:54 Edited at: 15th Aug 2005 23:26
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Quote: "could you add a fps counter "


Sure thing. Kind of embarassed I forgot it actually.



In the next version I'd like to have only 1 model, and then finish off more of the GUI so you can start adding/taking away effects. It's also possible that the next beta release will export source code and instructions for properly setting up your models in game.



[EDIT]

Didn't realize it was already the 15th! I'll have to move the release date back to the 17th due to lack of time as school approaches.

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mm0zct
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Posted: 15th Aug 2005 23:35 Edited at: 15th Aug 2005 23:36
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the texture loading problem could be because when you load the texture it changes the current directory, then when it tries to load themenu it's looking in the wrong place. there's a command to get the address of the application you could use to reset the current directory.

edit: forgot to say it looks great so far though, but could do with a zoom out

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cdborrego
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what about a 800x600x16 or 1024x768x16 mode? That would be great !

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MikeS
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Posted: 18th Aug 2005 00:31 Edited at: 3rd Jun 2006 06:32
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New download availiable.
[Link Removed Newer Version in the works]

Features Added:
- FPS counter
- Switch between windowed/full screen
- Source export added(not fully functional)
- 1024x768x32 resolution now supported

Bugs:

- Texture must be in same directory as model.

Future Features:

- More tweaking and control of object properties(scaling, ghosting, shadows, etc.)
- Object export(.dbo/.x/maybe more)
- GUI (No more console text!)

Experimental tech:(Features that may not necessarily work there way into this tool, but are being toyed with.)

- Vertex manipulation
- Realtime texture editing/polishing.



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Deadwords
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Posted: 18th Aug 2005 03:07
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Looks awsome, no more resolution bugs, but i've got another problem

see attachment

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Dot Merix
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Posted: 18th Aug 2005 03:39
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I get the same problem as Skalex



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MikeS
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@Skalex & Merix
Weird, I can't seem to duplicate the problem.
Are you making sure you're selecting a texture in the same directory as the model?

@mm0zct
Thanks for the compliment. Perhaps mouseclick 2 can be a zoom out.

Could you find out how to change the directory for me please, or where any examples are. I've been messing with set dir, get dir$, etc., but I just can't get the directories to reset. It's possible that I could do one of two things though.

a.) Either have the user paste in the path to the program, and have an installer(or just a script file).

or

b.) I was able to get the address of the program with appname$, so I could probably just do some string manipulation to get the proper address. This might be unreliable though.

Or maybe I could combine both, and have the user still define a filepath(or have it done with an installer), and if that fails, go with option b.

Just a matter of me freeing up some time right now though.



@Nusof
More resolutions will be supported. The way it's designed, I could really support any resolution. Once I get a more organized GUI, I can start adding more resolutions.

Thanks for all the feedback everyone. I'm hoping to make the next release on August 23(2005).



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JoelJ
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AWESOME! i was just going to search the boards/post for help making normals! this is going to be nice...

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Alkaline
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I agree joel, i havnt gotten any good models to use normal mapping but when i do ill make sure to use this...great work mikes. i salute you

cheers

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