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Geek Culture / It may be illegal... but this is costing me a ton!

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David R
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Location: 3.14
Posted: 13th Aug 2005 14:47
I have a Philips Fax machine. It works fine and all that; but theres one thing that is bl**dy annoying

The ink

It comes on a reel, and the ink itself is desgned to last 7,500 prints. However, this fax machine has a special chip in it, that deliberately refuses to work with ink reels tht have been used for over 500 prints.

So effectively; I have a fax machine ink catridge tht can manage several thoasand prints, ut only lasts 500. And each time it 'runs out' (when the chip sops it from printing) I have to spend another £17 on a n ink reel.

Its probably illegal to do this, but is there a solution for this? A way to disable the chip, and stop Philips cheating me out of my money?


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OSX Using Happy Dude
21
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Posted: 13th Aug 2005 14:50
Sue 'em...

Or get a better fax machine and then sue them.

Or sue them and then get a different fax machine.

I'm sure third-party inks get around it...

AtomZ - its got an A. Its got a Z. Now its just needs U
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Hawkeye
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Location: SC, USA
Posted: 13th Aug 2005 14:51
Zotoaster
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Location: Scotland
Posted: 13th Aug 2005 15:02
just jerk the chip out with a hammer

"Well if she dies it'll teach her not to do it again..." - Me
David R
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Posted: 13th Aug 2005 15:35
The whole fax machine stops working if you remove the chip

(apparently)


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Neofish
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Location: A swimming pool of coke
Posted: 13th Aug 2005 15:51
Sell it n get a new one

Raven
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Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 13th Aug 2005 16:13
my Lexmark Z12 Printer is the same, only replace the colour with a random Cyan Yellow Blue.

Quite annoying, cause I get something like 100 pages from it then the remaining is a single colour. Though I rarely use it anymore. Bought a Colour Laserjet instead.

More pages per toner, quite, not as noisey, not as wet, and the colours are far sharper. Don't know how the hell those TV Adverts for these printers they're knocking off thse photo-realistic images on thier printer, but I've never seen photo-realistic prints from a standard deskjet printer.

Me!
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Posted: 13th Aug 2005 17:45
buy two ribbons and swap them back and forth (you might need three actualy), just run one, when it runs out then load the next and save the old one, and so on, it isn`t illegal to bypass the chip at all, but what Philips are doing ought to be, or maybe you could get one of those tools like those that reset inkjet cartridges, or maybe just buy a cheap inkjet fax machine instead.

you can buy the tool to reset the chips in the inkjet cartridges from the same place you buy ink refills, and the three cartridge trick works on Epson/HP printers (they only remember the previous cartridge code or previous plus one IIRC), it might work on your Philips.

Xolatron old
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Posted: 13th Aug 2005 18:31
Does removing the cartridge and replacing it with an older one (or even that same one) work?

-Xol

David R
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Location: 3.14
Posted: 13th Aug 2005 18:59
No, since I'm pretty sure part of the film on the ink has sme kind of chip in it too - taking it out and replacing still just gives the 'OUT OF INK' wording on the display (even though there is clearly still ink left on the cartridges film)


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Me!
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Posted: 13th Aug 2005 21:05
thats why you need several, it goes by id number, so the same number gives that message, but after 2 or three swaps it forgets the numbers of the cartridges it had in it, so you are ok to go again, try it, save your old cartridges in order and try swapping the oldest back in after a few swaps, for a guess it will have forgotten the id number of that cartridge and allow it to be used again.

RiiDii
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Posted: 13th Aug 2005 22:22 Edited at: 13th Aug 2005 22:23
Same but different topic. Those print company bass tards actually try so hard to make money of off ink (as mentioned above too) that they actually sell printers at a loss (Lexmark strategy for sure). So, I go in to buy new ink (color and black cartrages), and I see a new printer for $10.00 more than what I would pay for the ink, and it's a better printer than the one I have - and it comes with ink. So, what do I do? I give the company $10 more dollars and bring home new printers. Re-inking? I guess I just suck at it, cause it never lasts more than a few (20-30) pages.

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Xolatron old
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Posted: 13th Aug 2005 22:28
My printer is refilled with one of those ink-refill kits. Saves a ton of money, but the quality drops significantly.

-Xol

Benjamin
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Location: France
Posted: 13th Aug 2005 22:30
I know what you're saying. With our printer, if one of the colours runs out, you can't print at all. Even though black is completely seperate. Bass tards

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TDK
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Location: UK
Posted: 14th Aug 2005 08:01
What's more, some of the companies are getting wise to what RiiDii said he does.

More and more printers that I supply are being supplied with 'sampler' ink cartidges. These are only about a quarter full and I have to warn my customers that they may have to buy new ink within a week if they do more than just a few prints.

It's well known that they practically give printers away and make their money on the sale of ink cartridges.

TDK_Man
Grog Grueslayer
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Posted: 14th Aug 2005 10:36
That's what HP does... even on the biggest ink cartridges.
Osiris
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Location: Robbinsdale, MN
Posted: 14th Aug 2005 10:40
There has to be a program somewhere out there to bypass the chip, did you try google?

indi
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Location: Earth, Brisbane, Australia
Posted: 14th Aug 2005 13:57 Edited at: 14th Aug 2005 13:58
here is some info on smart chip cartridges

cant even refill them now as well.!



http://pcbuyersguide.com/hardware/printers/smart_chips.html



S P E C I A L R E P O R T


So-called "Smart Chip" ink cartridges
are designed to prevent refilling
(but we tell you how to do it anyway.)

by Graeme Bennett (Posted May 19, 2002; updated Jan. 14, 2004)

Introduction
A growing number of inkjet printers on the market incorporate a so-called "smart chip" in their ink cartridges. Unfortunately, the primary function of this impressive-sounding technology is to make it difficult or impossible to refill that cartridge. As some consumers prefer to save money by using ink refills (or simply just want to keep their options open, should the primary manufacturer stop producing the cartridges!), a growing number of people are interested in exploring ways to defeat this system. This article will explore the options available.

A little History
According to John Mills of WeInk.com, the DeskJet 2000c was the first small desktop printer to use smart chip technology. However, he says, ColorSpan and Encad were using smart chip cartridges and tanks on their wide format printers for a few years before the DeskJet 2000c hit the market. Now, PC Buyer's Guide has learned that, moving forward, all Epson printer models will be "smart chipped" as well.

Indeed, of the Epson printers available at retail at this writing, only the older C40U model does not include this disabling technology. These crippled cartridges have been in all of its printers since the release of the 870 and 1270. Specifically, this list includes (but is not necessarily limited to):

Color Stylus 870, 875 DC (similar to the 870 but with a built-in flash card reader), 777, 790, 870, 875, 890;
Black Only 1270, 1275, 1280, 1290 and 2000P. Models newer than those listed here are all "chipped," as well.

The Technology
It is difficult, but not impossible, to defeat this refill-protection technology. Around Sept. 2001, companies began advertising "reprogramming" services and, in some cases, "new" replacement Epson chipped cartridges; we have subsequently seen public discussion of how the refilling can be done at www.netwares.com and elsewhere, as well as interesting efforts to work around the problem.

Image Control, of Toronto ON (416-694-7509) is a remanufacturer of toner cartridges and inkjet cartridges. It charges $6 to reset Epson chipped cartridges. (Read more...)

Complicating the issue is the fact that manufacturers may use different smart chips in each cartridge. A similar scenario affects would-be refillers of toner cartridges for laser printers based on the Xerox N32 Engine. There are at least 10 different smart chips on the market for the various brand permutations of this cartridge. And consider that the market incentive to reverse-engineer a solution for ink cartridges that sell for $20 - $35 is much lower than for a laser printer, where the consumables cost $200 - $300. Notably, it has been about four years since the DeskJet 2000c hit the market and there are, to my knowledge, still no third party chips or effective workarounds. It is also notable that HP has not produced other products with this system since -- we can only hope that the market failure of "anti-refill" systems will lead Epson and other manufacturers to give up on this consumer-unfriendly effort.

A further twist in the story occurred in Dec. 2002, when the European Parliament banned the use of chips in ink cartridges designed to restrict consumers' abilities to use cheaper brands of ink or recycled cartridges. Applelinks has details.

Refill-friendly Alternatives
There are a large number of printers on the market that can easily be refilled. A few particularly notable models: The Epson 750 features a CIS continuous bottle fill system (PC Buyer's Guide has had enough bad experiences with Epsons, however, that they're officially off our recommended products lists); the Canon 8200 has easy-to-refill individual tanks, and in recent tests, Canon i-series printers (including the C$99 i320) boast some of the lowest consumables costs of any of the major brands.

Virtually all Lexmark and HP printers have the print head incorporated into the print cartridge, helping to reduce the troublesome potential for ink clogs permanently fouling up the printer. Beware, however, of HP's "sucker deal" printers that require expensive #15 cartridges. See our article elsewhere in this section for details.

How to Defeat "Expiring" Cartridges
Note: The following technique only works on NEW, never installed, HP 10 cartridges. Standard disclaimers apply.

Rich Weaver writes, "I have Windows NT and an HP 2000 printer. I also have an HP 2500 which I tested with expired cartridges and XP Home (Microsoft printer driver).

There are now chip replacements available. One requires quantity 10 to be ordered @$6.95 each and the reset station is $375. (each color is a separate 10 quantity order, i.e. 40 X $6.95 + $375 minimum order to fix this problem. http://www.smartchipsolutions.com/product.asp?3=91

Unsatisfied with this solution, Rich came up with his own technique and posted the following on http://inkgirl.com/bbs/entries/42.html (Editor's note: see http://inkgirl.com/bbs/entries/43.html for additional details and clarifications.)

HP 10 (and probably 11) expiration date fix
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It doesn't seem possible to fix an expired cartridge without physically replacing the chip but you can avoid having the expiration date burned into a new factory virgin cartridge thus making it immune to expiration. There are places that sell the chips but they seem to all (both, Brazil and the Netherlands) be out of the US and the total cost with shipping is more than the price of a new cartridge. I figured the following method out from things I read and experimentation. I make no guarantee and until all my old cartridges expire, I will not know for sure if I am totally correct but that won't be until the end of 2005 (I don't think you want to wait until then). It is working for me so far. Use at your own risk. You must start with a virgin cartridge (chip), factory fresh without having ever been used to print.

Normally, the first time you print is when the date is burned in. Do not install the cartridge until you do the following. There is an *.ini file (hpSomethingOrOther.ini) stored in the system directory (WINNT in NT and 2000) that has a name probably associated with the driver version. Search for hp*.ini and edit the ones with the latest dates. If you configure the printer driver first, see below, the file date should read today. There are two files, one will list the one you need to change, change the other one, I think it is the smaller one. In it there is a parameter something like pencheck. It is set to 0100. I think this is a boolean because I tried other values without effect. Set it to 0000 in the file and save the file and REBOOT. You can check the value in the driver configuration dialog box (found through the Help for the HP tool box, open the last entry, I think, and click on configure). If the grayed out box for ink check or cartridge check or something like that is unchecked, you are in business. Cancel this dialog. Do NOT click on default or the expiration check will be reinstated and when you print with your new cartridge you will get an expiration date burned into it. I wouldn't trust making any changes to this dialog box without rechecking that the parameter stays unchecked. After making sure this value is unchecked, install your new virgin cartridge(s) and the expiration date(s) will read "UNKNOWN".

Over time, once you have replaced all your cartridges that have expiration dates burned into them (as they expire and they will) with ones that now read UNKNOWN, and as long as you do not reinstall a driver or configure the printer driver (if you do, fix the INI file again before printing), you should not have any cartridge expire, ever again. NOTE, if you load a new driver, make sure to reset the value in the INI file before you print anything or you will burn expiration dates into the chips and you will have to buy new factory virgin cartridges all over again. Microsoft drivers for XP don't seem to check the expiration dates or send a date to the printer so you can use expired cartridges with XP (XP Home, anyway) If you install an HP driver in XP, I hope the above method still applies. I have not tried this in 95, 98, or ME but it should probably work.

Rich Weaver can be reached at weaverjunkmail@direcway.com

Related Technologies
Lexmark, which uses smart chips in some of its laser printer toner cartridges, in Jan. 2003 took a small company called Static Control Components to court, claiming that SCC had violated the DMCA by circumventing its technological copy protection device. SCC agreed to voluntarily stop selling its replacement cartridges using the contested chips.

In March 2003, Dell released a new line of printers, manufactured by Lexmark. The news is not that they're priced aggressively -- that's to be expected from Dell. No, the newsworthy aspect of this announcement is the fact that the units contain a chip that disables the cartridge if it is refilled and replaced. Reportedly, the cartridges are different sizes than cartridges from other printer vendors, including Lexmark -- and replacement cartridges are currently available only from Dell. This, say analysts, should limit the amount of knockoff cartridges available -- at least until someone figures out how to reverse engineer Dell’s cartridges, as has already happened with Lexmark, Epson, and just about any other type of "smart-chipped" cartridge ever developed. Our Printer News page for Mar. 2003 has additional details. ::

- Graeme Bennett, Editor

For further reading:
Epson-Inkjet discussion forum and digest concerning all Epson inkjet printers
How to refill "chipped" Epson cartridges: http://www.netwares.com/epsonchp/chip.htm
Refill instructions for popular inkjet models
www.printerfillingstation.com/Instructions/777.htm
InkSupply.com: illustrated chip reset instructions for owners of Epson 680, 777, 870, 875, 1270, 1280, 1290 or 2000P printers.
Applelinks: Europe Says No to Chips in Ink Cartridges [Dec. 20, 2002]

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Foxy
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Posted: 14th Aug 2005 14:16
I'm a fan of buying my cartridges off of ebay, you buy the compatible ones from someone in Singapore or China and they usually work just as well. I get non-genuine Canon cartridges for my printer for $5 a pop, and they print out photo quality prints. This isn't illegal, as far as I know.

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Me!
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Posted: 14th Aug 2005 16:12 Edited at: 14th Aug 2005 16:19
it isn`t, there is no law says you HAVE to use Cannon cartridges in a Cannon printer or face a ten year sentence, but Cannon et al would like you to think there is, hell even when it comes to safety critical parts for cars like brakes or airbag cartridges etc you can fit pattern parts, and a printer cartridge will not endanger your life (well...unless it gives out bad prints and you have a stroppy customer ) , they are just being dumbasses, personaly I think they should just try thinking about the customer for a change and start making refillable printers, rather than just thinking about profits all the time, just think of all the waste caused by all those cartridges people throw away.

Xolatron old
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Posted: 14th Aug 2005 22:50
Quote: "Color Stylus 870, 875 DC (similar to the 870 but with a built-in flash card reader), 777, 790, 870, 875, 890; "


I'm happy with my 'dumb' printer: Epson Color Stylus 640. It missed the 'improved education' phase

-Xol

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