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Geek Culture / How many people program games in C++?

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Dom
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Posted: 17th Aug 2005 17:23 Edited at: 17th Aug 2005 17:23
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How many people program games in C++? Because I just bought a book on it and realised how bliidy complicated it is. I dont know what half the stuff or nothing ARGH!!!

Oh I wanted to know how long it took to learn how to do it.

"A book. I hate books. book is stupid." -- Some lame idiot
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Ace Of Spades
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Posted: 17th Aug 2005 17:36
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i made a text-only black-jack game took all of 10 minutes to learn, lol. As for 3D, that stuff is impossible.

"Dark Basic rocks! Although the things you can do are not as dynamic as C++, just think how long it would take to do the same thing! I can get FPS of over 60!"
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Dom
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Posted: 17th Aug 2005 18:25
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Ahh I can do text Only games easily but I was talking 2D and 3D stuff?

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DBAlex
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Posted: 17th Aug 2005 18:42
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Well you can count me in this!

I made pong in allegro!




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Dom
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Posted: 17th Aug 2005 18:51
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How long did it take you to learn?

"A book. I hate books. book is stupid." -- Some lame idiot
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DBAlex
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Posted: 17th Aug 2005 19:04
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Not long... You just need the basics down for Allegro..

Any tutorial on the net can teach you the basics.




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Sol462
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Posted: 17th Aug 2005 19:06 Edited at: 17th Aug 2005 19:07
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I've been learning for about 4 - 4 1/2 years now, and I still haven't figured it out. But I must say that it's coming along ok. I've started learning DirectX, which isn't too too bad once you get used to it. The trick is, learn what the code is doing not just memorizing what to type from a tutorial. Once you figure out what it's doing you can do anything you want.

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Dom
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Posted: 17th Aug 2005 19:20
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Quote: "learn what the code is doing"

Yeah, thats the part I'm having trouble with, guess I had better go back to doing all the text based stuff.

"A book. I hate books. book is stupid." -- Some lame idiot
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Dom
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Posted: 17th Aug 2005 20:28
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OK well I thought I would have a go at something simple in a console application and came up with this:
Buuut it doesnt work. Anyone help me out with this?

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Jeku
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Posted: 17th Aug 2005 22:13
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I do! I do!

Been working with C++ for almost 10 years now, and I can honestly say I'm still learning new things every day.

Right now I'm building an Xbox 360 game with our company, and new challenges are continuously popping up. That's half the fun of programming--- learning! *

* And keeping a continuously endless supply of coffee on hand.


My "everyone else has one so why can't I?" blog: http://www.jeku.com/blog/
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David R
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Posted: 17th Aug 2005 22:18
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@Jeku; So can you tell us anything about the Xbox dev tools? What are they like?


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Dom
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Posted: 17th Aug 2005 22:25
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OK Jeku you say you've ben using C++ for 10 years, so how long would it take you to create a simple Space Invaders game?

"A book. I hate books. book is stupid." -- Some lame idiot
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Jeku
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Posted: 17th Aug 2005 22:50
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Quote: "@Jeku; So can you tell us anything about the Xbox dev tools? What are they like?"


Sorry I can't really talk about that kind of stuff--- don't want to get in crap

Quote: " OK Jeku you say you've ben using C++ for 10 years, so how long would it take you to create a simple Space Invaders game?"


It shouldn't take you very long if you grab handy helpers like Allegro. The things I find you get better at over time, are code efficiencies, and organization. For example most people's DBP code is in a single file, and they're all running on a single thread.

In C++ you have objects, classes, and member functions and variables that reflect their properties. If you expect to work in the industry with C++, you NEED to know how to organize yourself with C++. It's VERY easy to write spaghetti code with C++ and mock up a game. Hell, that's what I did with WordTrix. But you can't really say you understand C++ until you understand the theory and design principles as well. It's like another dimension of programming in my opinion.

Then when you get to multi-threaded applications--- ouch---- better make sure your Advil supply is at a maximum


My "everyone else has one so why can't I?" blog: http://www.jeku.com/blog/
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Dom
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Posted: 17th Aug 2005 22:57
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Well at the moment I am learning the Bascis of the Windows API, not too tricky! =)

"A book. I hate books. book is stupid." -- Some lame idiot
Formerly Saberdude --DFStudios--
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Sol462
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Posted: 18th Aug 2005 06:13 Edited at: 18th Aug 2005 06:17
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It says that one of the headers is antiquated (obsolete). It's probably iostream.

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alex 1337
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Posted: 18th Aug 2005 06:20
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I know some C++. Enough to make a text adventure game at least. I have also made a 2d asteroid game (not very good and used lots of tutorials) and am learning to work with open gl and making 3d games.

You should learn C or C#, thats good for game creation.
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TKF15H
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Posted: 18th Aug 2005 06:21 Edited at: 18th Aug 2005 06:23
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heh, don't know how come nobody noticed this yet...
Quote: "light == ".";"

Should be:
Quote: "light = ".";"

In C/C++ you use == for a comparison only. Unless the string class overloads them differently, I never use it.
And there's nothing wrong with the headers :S

[edit]
Oh, and unless you're making very simple games, don't go plain C. C++ will keep your code more organized, readable, and modular if you do it properly.

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Ace Of Spades
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Posted: 18th Aug 2005 06:29
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Quote: "In C/C++ you use == for a comparison only. Unless the string class overloads them differently, I never use it.
And there's nothing wrong with the headers :S"


Coming from a fish?

"Dark Basic rocks! Although the things you can do are not as dynamic as C++, just think how long it would take to do the same thing! I can get FPS of over 60!"
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Dom
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Posted: 18th Aug 2005 13:26
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Well in this book I've got its for C not C++ which is a bit annoying but I've gotta start somewhere. I am slowly learning how to create Window Apllications too

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IanG
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Posted: 18th Aug 2005 14:31
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windows apps can be a pain - go with the console windows

@Jeku: how did you learn to program games?


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DBAlex
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Posted: 18th Aug 2005 14:47
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Well if its any help to anyone, I didnt learn C++ from a book, I found tutorials on the Internet to learn C++, and first just started learning to make console apps, The usual stuff like calculators, TicTacToe, Text Adventures etc...

But then I found out about Allegro and started learning that.

heres some links that might be helpful.

C++ Tutorial: http://www.cplusplus.com/doc/tutorial/

Allegro Game Programming Library: http://alleg.sourceforge.net/

Also a nice 3D library for C++ is Irrlicht:
http://irrlicht.sourceforge.net/

Also if your using Dev C++ then the dev packs database might help, these stop the mither of installing all these librarys, they can be installed in a click of the mouse:

http://www.devpaks.org/

Also ill give you the url for Dev C++, Even though you could just google it...

http://www.bloodshed.net/devcpp.html

Also in a couple of weeks im gonna put a tutorial together for making a game in Dev C++ with Allegro.

Hope these help !

W00T Mammoth post alert...


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Dom
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Posted: 18th Aug 2005 16:48 Edited at: 18th Aug 2005 16:48
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Lol, I use Dev C++ although I would like to get MS Visual C++ Studio thing.

Quote: "Windows apps can be a pain"

Well yes true but once you get used to it its not that hard at all.

And yes Jeku I wouldn't mind knowing how you learnt to make games and I was wondering if you might be able to give us a small account of an average day in your workplace

I would like to take programming up as a profession, I am only 14 so I still have a long time to learn it!

EDIT: Oh DBAlex thanks for those links, I'll check them out

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Peter H
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Posted: 18th Aug 2005 16:52 Edited at: 18th Aug 2005 16:52
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I do...but not in 3D

"We make the worst games in the universe."

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Dom
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Posted: 18th Aug 2005 17:01
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Nice, DBAlex as your writing the tutorial you couldn't out in a part about setting up Allegro for use could you? Only I'm having a bit of trouble doing that myself. Thanks.

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Jeku
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Posted: 18th Aug 2005 17:19 Edited at: 18th Aug 2005 17:20
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Quote: "@Jeku: how did you learn to program games?"


Had to on my own, from internet tutorials and game programming books. The closest course my University offered that was in relation to game programming was an OpenGL class. I also never studied linear algebra in school, which is something I regret every day at work.

If I can give you one hint, it's this: take a linear algebra course in University! All game employers will refer to it during your interview, and you will use the foundations every single day if you're working on a 3D game especially. I can't stress this enough. Most computer science programs require this anyways. And that's another thing: get a real University computer science or related degree! Most companies won't even look at you unless you have one.

Quote: "I was wondering if you might be able to give us a small account of an average day in your workplace"


Well, I get up at around 630am every morning and drive 1.5 hours to work in the big city, to an unmarked building on the east end of town Every week the chief architect, or lead programmer, draws up tasks for everyone to accomplish by the end of Friday. If you don't finish the task, you stay until it's done on Friday night. Basically I can work at my own pace, as long as I can accomplish my tasks. I can come in whenever and leave whenever. Because we have a milestone deadline this month, I come into work at around 830am and leave anywhere from 6pm - 830pm.

Mind you I am also a part owner of the company. If you're an employee of, say EA, they will most likely give you times to come in for meetings, etc.

I completed my work on the physics part of the game about a week ago, and now I'm heading up the AI department. This is much more my avenue.

For tools we're using Visual Studio .NET 2005, C++, Gamebryo for the game engine, and Meqon for the physics engine.

Sorry for the long post, I'll shut up now


My "everyone else has one so why can't I?" blog: http://www.jeku.com/blog/
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walaber
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Posted: 18th Aug 2005 17:31
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oooh -- meqon looks really cool from the demos.

while we're on the subject of C++, I am a big fan of OGRE, an extremely powerful open-source (free) 3D engine for C++, with a community that rivals this one.

the game I made with it has been featured on lots of game sites, and even written about in a magazine.

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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PowerSoft
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Posted: 18th Aug 2005 20:32
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"linear algebra" ?

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Dom
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Posted: 18th Aug 2005 21:28
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walaber I tried to download Stunt Playground but I cant cos I have no account on filefront. And I also downlaoded OGRE but have no idea how it works. And Jeku thanks for the insight

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Sephnroth
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Posted: 18th Aug 2005 22:06
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I have been programming for about.. um, 13 years. I'm only 21 >>;
My uncle started me when I was 8 by sitting me down infront of his BBC micro computer and getting me to type out programs from the bbc mags he had. My first game was bricky nicky. Sigh, I was destined to be a nerd from that point on I guess!

Anyway, there was a brief break of a few years then I picked it up again on the pc using the various hobbiest languages around. I think I first brushed with c/c++ when i was 16 or so. I think the main thing about C is it *looks* more complicated than it is. I find that since I have a very good grasp of programming principles etc its really not hard to pick up any other language after a glance at its command set. Just the other day I wrote a nice success rate calculator in javascript for a mmorpg i play (ragnarok online) and that was my first attempt in js. I tend to do that alot, just grab a language thats suitable for a job and start off programming in it. with c/c++ though they tend to have stupid naming conventions that are designed to bewilder and confuse you.
If you have messed with winapi you know what i mean, a typical function:

SOMETYPE_IN_CAPS ASECONDTYPEWTF yxyZesomename((obscure variable type that may as well be int) shrtHndVarName);

when it could of just been

WAPI_RETURN_TYPE ExitProgram(int flag);

>>

But I find once you learn the naming conventions the rest just falls into place because you're back to basic programming again. Assign your variables and retrive them, call functions to perform tasks, hi im programming. Not too hard at all.

You can make the life easier by using things like allegro and darkSDK - for sound i totally recommend an lgpl api called Audiere. Theres tons of stuff out there that will make your life easy.

also, the one site i have spent the most time at pretty much no matter what language im programming in is:

http://www.gamedev.net

your bible. Enjoy XD

DarkSDK/WinAPI Tutorial
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Jeku
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Posted: 18th Aug 2005 22:21
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Quote: " "linear algebra" ?"


Just type it into Google and look it up. Here's one that I found that helped me through some tough points:

http://chortle.ccsu.ctstateu.edu/VectorLessons/vectorIndex.html


My "everyone else has one so why can't I?" blog: http://www.jeku.com/blog/
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Red general
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Posted: 18th Aug 2005 22:57
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I write basic 3D opengl C++ games in my spare time, and have been working on my own engine (this explains why I have been mising from the forum for well over a year now).

I use opengl as I find it far easier than directx (although I do use some directx stuff now and again)

A good place to start is http://nehe.gamedev.net/

My computer melts regulary - perhaps it likes being fondue
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