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Geek Culture / Unsecured Network Access

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Scraggle
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2005 03:01 Edited at: 22nd Aug 2005 03:09
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I have just started a 6 week intensive MCSE course and although there is net access in the classroom I had been informed that there was not net access in the apartments that were appointed for us on arrival.

However, never one to let other peoples word be the truth without proof, I set my laptop to search for netconnections within range. I found this one ... and it is unprotected!

If you are reading this then it works.

However, my one and only concern is can the owner (and therefore billpayer) track who is using his connection or can I continue to use it until the fool realises that it is set up as unprotected?

Thanks

Scraggle

*Smugly waiting until told to be less smug because I have broken the law.*

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Eric T
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2005 03:44 Edited at: 22nd Aug 2005 03:45
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Some of us for fun go around in cars with our laptops and wireless cards (+ antennas) searching for unprotected wireless networks just to screw with the owner. We call this activity "War Driving". I've never had any action taken against me for it, nor has anyone ever caught me (even though sometimes i'll park right infront of their house ). Since the signal is available in your apartment, you could just claim their signal is trespassing on your property, and since it is in your property, their signal is your signal.

Oh the fun one can have with a mini satelite antenna or a pringles can...

http://blog.myspace.com/erict An Alternative to Mouse's blog. Now with more lowbrow opinions.** Warning - explicit language**
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Frozen Flame
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2005 04:06
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war driving hehe..
i really want to do that but i dont have a damn laptop.
Just wait tho.

Scraggle, its unprotected.. meaning: its like a door thats unlocked. if you find it why not walk in side and check things out? You cant do any harm.. its just FREE internet connection. Its like winning the lotery. how fun.

It is not ur fault either. If people dont want you to walk in the door, they should lock it. you know?


I feel just terrible about it
That's sarcasm, let it burn
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hyrichter
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2005 07:25
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If they really don't want people on their network, they'll secure it. As long as you don't cause any harm to their network, I don't think they'll ever know about it. There are ways to find out if people are on your network, but if you aren't smart enough to protect it, would you be smart enough to know if someone's using your internet connection?


Do not click the red button
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Me!
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2005 11:44
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oh? right! so if someone leaves their door unlocked I can walk right into their house, and if they left some food in an unlocked fridge I can cook it on their unlocked stove and sit down and eat it while watching their unlocked telly and thats ok, right?, likewise, if I run two wires over to next doors phone line I can use their connection to save me on phone bills, maybe even use their broadband connection, after all, they don`t physicaly check the line every day, so thats ok, right?

WRONG!!

it`s called stealing, thats someone elses connection and someone elses network, they paid for it, not you, you are stealing bandwidth and privacy, it`s immoral and dishonest, you should be ashamed to post something like that on a public forum

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BatVink
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2005 13:10
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Search Google for "Wireless Hotspots UK" and you'll find dozens of sites where you can do this.

What I would do is this...Go to WhatismyIP.com, and get the IP address. See which ISP hosts that address, and if they don't charge bandwidth usage, then you are stealing nothing.

Additionally, if you can locate the owner, I would offer to bung him a few quid, or offer to secure his network for him in exchange for the use of his airwaves whilst you are there.

Good luck with the course. Part of your £8K windfall, I imagine?

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JoelJ
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2005 18:56
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Quote: "
However, never one to let other peoples word be the truth without proof, I set my laptop to search for netconnections within range. I found this one ... and it is unprotected!"

my brother found an unprotected one when he moved into his appartment...then he decided to start a big download over night...and he was...well, yeah...
but all the owner can do (from my understanding) is log your MAC address...but what good is that without being able to find out WHERE the computer is.
But it IS illegal for you to tap into his network tho. HE is paying for YOUR internet without knowing it...and i'm sure if it were the other way around you would be asking us how you could track HIM down and punt him out

"people who wear clothing with tech themes for the purpose of gaining a social label are no different than teenagers who wear large sweatpants to look edgy"
-Wikipedia "Nerd"
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Jeku
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2005 23:36
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I remember a man from Quebec was caught war-driving for naughty illegal sites. Apparently if your network is accessible from outside, and somebody uses it to download illegal data, the owner will still be charged because the authorities see it as coming from your network.

Let this be a lesson to all: secure your damn networks! It takes all of 5 minutes to do so.


My "everyone else has one so why can't I?" blog: http://www.jeku.com/blog/
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2005 00:37
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Its amazing the number of companies who dont - same goes for Windows updates too.

Come to the third DarkBasic Pro Sci Fi Con - Be there and be square
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re faze
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2005 04:48
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i wonder if you disable dchp then in theory they will not notice you right? and i agree, if they do not charge for bandwith then you are not stealing, or if so a negligible amount.

"I am what I am and that is all I can be -J King"
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John Y
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2005 10:46
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You guys may want to check this out.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4721723.stm


Http://www.DigitalOmega.Net
Http://synergyide.thegamecreators.com
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lagmaster
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2005 20:42 Edited at: 23rd Aug 2005 20:45
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last year i was using my next door's wireless connection for 2-3 weeks, during the time my ntl connection went down (and his didnt!). what shocked me even more is that he had the router login as the default ones.

there are some stupid people out there, if your stupid enough to leave your wireless connection unsecure, it's their own fault for people using it.

lagmaster - irc.devhat.net <--
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BatVink
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2005 23:30
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Another coincidence...I was reconfiguring my router tonight and in the 2 minutes it was down it found 2 more networks to connect to.

Last time I scanned for networks I was the only one.

At least I have a reserve network if mine goes down

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re faze
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Posted: 24th Aug 2005 22:47
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I just secured my network, i didnt realize people would be so grimey as to just do illegal activity on someone else's network

"I am what I am and that is all I can be -J King"
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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 25th Aug 2005 01:20
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never realised people would be so silly to leave their network open! I tell you what, what not leave a spare CAT5 ethernet cable out front.. That'd be much more polite that making people have to SCAN for you network!! hehe

I heard a story about an american bloke who scanned his local area and found about 5-6 open networks - allwith broadband. He then went out and bought a few WIFI cards and got each one to connect to a network.. He claimed he ended up with something like 4-5Mbit internet! Now I'm not sure if thats true or not (due to networking and IP conflicts) but its a bloody good idea!

My Website:
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indi
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Posted: 25th Aug 2005 02:45
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i use netstumbler or kismac

If no-one gives your an answer to a question you have asked, consider:- Is your question clear.- Did you ask nicely.- Are you showing any effort to solve the problem yourself &#63743;
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re faze
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Posted: 25th Aug 2005 09:04
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i use wep encryption now the password is .... c'mon you dont think im stupid do you?

"I am what I am and that is all I can be -J King"
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Scraggle
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Posted: 25th Aug 2005 16:02
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Quote: "c'mon you dont think im stupid do you?
"
after this quote ...
Quote: "I just secured my network, i didnt realize people would be so grimey as to just do illegal activity on someone else's network
"
... Yes!



Quote: "Good luck with the course. Part of your £8K windfall, I imagine?"

Thanks ... and no. The RAF are paying for the lot ... all £4000 of it bless 'em

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BatVink
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Posted: 25th Aug 2005 17:43
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It's your "rehabilitation into society" grant then?

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Scraggle
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Posted: 26th Aug 2005 11:30
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That's the one

They like to give it a different name but it means the same thing.

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MiR
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Posted: 26th Aug 2005 13:49
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Any one mined telling me how I go about sequring me network? Though I don`t have a wireless network so I wouldn`t have to bother, right? And it is stealing. Imagine if they`re steaming a video and your access to the their network slows it down and it starts to stutter. The single most anoying thing in the internet! How can you do that to the poor saps?


Gimme teh votez!!!!
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re faze
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Posted: 26th Aug 2005 19:20
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question, i have a belkin setup, which should i use the windows connection or the belkin one, cause i like the windoze better but the belkin seems to be recommended

"I am what I am and that is all I can be -J King"
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JoelJ
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Posted: 27th Aug 2005 00:30
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Quote: "c'mon you dont think im stupid do you?"

yes:
Quote: "i use wep encryption"

you know how long it would take someone to break into your router if they wanted to? all they need is a laptop with linux installed...hey they even have linux distros specifically FOR wardriving

"people who wear clothing with tech themes for the purpose of gaining a social label are no different than teenagers who wear large sweatpants to look edgy"
-Wikipedia "Nerd"
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re faze
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Posted: 31st Aug 2005 10:50
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so what type do you recommend?

"I am what I am and that is all I can be -J King"
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Killswitch
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Posted: 31st Aug 2005 12:16
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Sure WEP won't keep out a dedicated team of russian hackers from getting onto my wireless nextwork - but it will stop clueless families from spounging off it next door.

~It's a common mistake to make, the rules of the English langauge do not apply to insanity~
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Jeku
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Posted: 31st Aug 2005 20:08
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Quote: "you know how long it would take someone to break into your router if they wanted to? all they need is a laptop with linux installed...hey they even have linux distros specifically FOR wardriving"


I challenge anyone to break into a wep encrypted wireless connection. The linux distros for wardriving are meant for unencrypted connections, which is like 99% of them.

It's like anything else, if you have a good password using numbers, letters, punctuation, etc. then your WEP key will be hella impossible to guess.


My "everyone else has one so why can't I?" blog: http://www.jeku.com/blog/
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JoelJ
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Posted: 31st Aug 2005 20:58
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Quote: "It's like anything else, if you have a good password using numbers, letters, punctuation, etc. then your WEP key will be hella impossible to guess."

you can get programs that actually decrypt the signal, it's just a matter of minutes to about an hour before you are in...
the FBI has proved that they can crack any WEP encryption in under 5minutes.

I haven't ever looked into it at all, but there are some other encryption methods, WAP i believe is one (cant remember, my router supports 2 or 3, but i'm too lazy to care)

But i'm not saying that it is USELESS to have a WEP, because it IS a sign to your neighbors that you don't want them in (like my brother's neighbor put a key on after he noticed my brother using it, so he's not going to go any further) and typical Joe wardriver is just going to go patrolling around until he does find an open spot.

"people who wear clothing with tech themes for the purpose of gaining a social label are no different than teenagers who wear large sweatpants to look edgy"
-Wikipedia "Nerd"
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Deep Thought 42
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Posted: 31st Aug 2005 21:51
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Along with encryption, people should only allow certain MAC addresses in their network. Worked for us so far. People just don't think of security whenever they get wireless.

"Winners never quit and quitters never win. But those who never win and never quit are idiots."
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JoelJ
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Posted: 31st Aug 2005 23:39
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Quote: "people should only allow certain MAC addresses in their network."

that's what my uncle does, only allows his computer's mac addresses... i think it's a little too far tho, at least, for my network, because my friend's are connecting all the time when they bring their computers over, and the cards are different sometimes, and quite honestly, i dont like to be bothered to open certain things when i want to play a game with my friends, that's why i have a little thing that opens all ports on my router when i'm hosting online games, which isnt often, but still, it's a lot easier and cleaner than having a bunch of crap all over the place for every game

"people who wear clothing with tech themes for the purpose of gaining a social label are no different than teenagers who wear large sweatpants to look edgy"
-Wikipedia "Nerd"
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the_winch
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Posted: 1st Sep 2005 05:14
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Mac address blocking is pretty much useless. It's easy to change your cards mac address and usually not much harder to find one of the permitted mac addresses.
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UnderLord
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Posted: 1st Sep 2005 05:30
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Hehe unprotected they can see you but they'd have to go into the router settings to see you under the computers currently connected. IF they have it unprotected i dought they know where to see who is using it.

When we talk to god, we're praying. When god talks to us, we're schizophrenic.
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