Sorry your browser is not supported!

You are using an outdated browser that does not support modern web technologies, in order to use this site please update to a new browser.

Browsers supported include Chrome, FireFox, Safari, Opera, Internet Explorer 10+ or Microsoft Edge.

Geek Culture / A question by a child.. o.O

Author
Message
Louiz ofRohr
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 11th Nov 2004
Location:
Posted: 30th Aug 2005 22:23
Link
Hello guys..

A child (about 6 years old) maked me this simple question:
"What do the blind people dream with?"

"Oh.. they dream with everything they can feel but the vision"

Oh yeah.. make sense..

Well, does someone know any person that was blind (since it's birth)
and started seeing the things?
What the blind people (since their birth) dream with?
Howe are their thinkings?

Well.. sounds like a stupid question, but my dreams have images as focus

Does someone have an opinion about that?

The worst foe lies within the self..
Back to top
Profile PM
Zotoaster
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th Dec 2004
Location: Scotland
Posted: 30th Aug 2005 22:26
Link
well i saw this documentary about people who could taste and see words, and there was this blind guy that could see the words, they were just colors, he didnt actally know how he saw them, but he thought he just imagined them


Back to top
Profile PM Email
Van B
Moderator
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Oct 2002
Location: Sunnyvale
Posted: 30th Aug 2005 22:26
Link
I think the brain must need something to go on, like if your blind from birth then surely your either gonna have incredibly strange dreams, or see nothing at all. Quite a encompasing question from a 6 year old! - wish I knew the answer to that.


Van-B

Put those fiery biscuits away!
Back to top
Profile PM Email
RegenProZ
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th Aug 2005
Location:
Posted: 30th Aug 2005 22:30
Link
A great dream eh?

As FFX Tidus Says, "Someday The Dream Will End"

um..anyway *gets back to coding*

"Why do people depend on each other? In the end you're on your own." - Squall
Back to top
Profile PM Email
DBAlex
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Oct 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 30th Aug 2005 22:33
Link
The blind person might dream from touch?

Just a thought...


AMD 64 3000 + 512mb RAM + 80GB HD + Radeon 9600se 128mb
http://www.dbastudios.cjb.net
Back to top
Profile PM
Lost in Thought
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Feb 2004
Location: U.S.A. : Douglas, Georgia
Posted: 30th Aug 2005 22:37
Link
I do not know what they see in their dreams, but I'm sure it is the same as everyone elses. Most dreams are about emotion, your mind just puts pictures that relate and express the emotions to them. They may not see anything at all when dreaming. Or a spectrum of wierd colors like a bad visualization in Windows Media Player

Back to top
Profile PM Email
Louiz ofRohr
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 11th Nov 2004
Location:
Posted: 30th Aug 2005 22:41 Edited at: 30th Aug 2005 22:43
Link
Quote: "there was this blind guy that could see the words, they were just colors, he didnt actally know how he saw them, but he thought he just imagined them"


Interesting..
I could not even imagine how the guy imagined the words..
Everything we see is light.. So the colors are light..
If he doesn't know even how what is "blue" he couldn't
imagine..
I actually can't imagine a thought by a blind person..

I did think it was just a "black screen" already..
But the blind doesn't know how "black" looks like..
So the brain could not make it consistent..

Me too, Van B..

Other opinions?

The worst foe lies within the self..
Back to top
Profile PM
Louiz ofRohr
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 11th Nov 2004
Location:
Posted: 30th Aug 2005 22:47
Link
Quote: "Or a spectrum of wierd colors like a bad visualization in Windows Media Player "


hmmm.. we don't know how is blue and don't dream with blue things
'till we see something that is blue

The worst foe lies within the self..
Back to top
Profile PM
Lost in Thought
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Feb 2004
Location: U.S.A. : Douglas, Georgia
Posted: 30th Aug 2005 22:53
Link
Everyone's mind has concepts of colors even if they don't know to call them colors or even what color to call them. Us seeing colors is our brains attaching a visualization to certain mixtures of light to help us identify them quickly. Just because they have never seen doesn't mean they have never seen colors in their mind. The imagination of a person is more powerful than we think. I think a blind person's imagination is more powerful in this respect, because they have no limits to bind/influence them as they have never seen anything, so what is around them could be anything.

Back to top
Profile PM Email
JoelJ
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Sep 2003
Location: UTAH
Posted: 30th Aug 2005 23:33
Link
how do deaf people think?
waiving hands? the letters in their head?
I personally think of the sound...at least, I think I do

"people who wear clothing with tech themes for the purpose of gaining a social label are no different than teenagers who wear large sweatpants to look edgy"
-Wikipedia "Nerd"
Back to top
Profile PM Website
soapyfish
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Oct 2003
Location: Yorkshire, England
Posted: 30th Aug 2005 23:41
Link
Never thought about it before but yeh, when I dream there's always an image there, something familiar. When people talk about dreams they talk about what they see happening.

I suppose they'd have an image of something, a car for example, in their head. They may never have seen one but they'd still be able to imagine what it looked like, maybe these are the images they see in their dreams.

*tries to think of witty and original signature*
*fails*
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Teh Go0rfmeister
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 17th Aug 2003
Location:
Posted: 30th Aug 2005 23:43
Link
i remember once a deaf person was asking what music was, and why it meant so much to us, and why peopel dispute over who makes the best, since afterall, it is just a sound...

Back to top
Profile PM Website
Zotoaster
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th Dec 2004
Location: Scotland
Posted: 31st Aug 2005 00:05 Edited at: 31st Aug 2005 00:07
Link
A few weeks ago I saw this movie called 'Mask', (not "The" mask with jim carrey), and this guy went out with this blind girl and she didnt know what colors were, so he gots a cold rock, a warm one and a hot one, and he gives her the cold one and hes like "this is blue", and with the warm one "this is green", then when he gives her the hot one hes like "this one is red, when that cools down it'll become pink!" and shes like "OMFG ROCKY! I UNDERTSAND! WAAA!! L33T OMFGC00L33TD00D!"

[Edit]

I just thought, it doesn't matter if they're blind, that just means they cant see whats infront of them, but they dont need eyes to dream of something, becuase what they see in theyre dream isnt being seen by the eyes


Back to top
Profile PM Email
Jeku
Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Jul 2003
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 31st Aug 2005 01:04
Link
An interesting thing I learned in my OpenGL course was that if you're blind from birth, then, say 20 years later you miraculously get your vision back, that you will have no depth perception. You will never be able to learn that things off in the distance are smaller than in front, so you would constantly see the small mountains directly in front of you. You can't learn it after a certain age. Very mysterious.


My "everyone else has one so why can't I?" blog: http://www.jeku.com/blog/
Back to top
Profile PM Website
RegenProZ
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th Aug 2005
Location:
Posted: 31st Aug 2005 01:15
Link
Quote: "so you would constantly see the small mountains directly in front of you."


So the guy walks thinkin it's close, and falls off!

"Why do people depend on each other? In the end you're on your own." - Squall
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Jeku
Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Jul 2003
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 31st Aug 2005 01:52
Link
Huh?


My "everyone else has one so why can't I?" blog: http://www.jeku.com/blog/
Back to top
Profile PM Website
JoelJ
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Sep 2003
Location: UTAH
Posted: 31st Aug 2005 04:43
Link
Quote: "So the guy walks thinkin it's close, and falls off!"

far away?

"people who wear clothing with tech themes for the purpose of gaining a social label are no different than teenagers who wear large sweatpants to look edgy"
-Wikipedia "Nerd"
Back to top
Profile PM Website
Ace Of Spades
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 6th Mar 2005
Location: Across the ocean
Posted: 31st Aug 2005 04:55
Link
Quote: "becuase what they see in theyre dream isnt being seen by the eyes"


But what WE see in our dreams was at least ONCE seen by our eyes in some form or another. You may argue, "once i saw a monster in my dream I have never seen", but if there was a way to look back through ALL your memories, you would realize that you have seen monsters, you have seen scary stuff, so you immaging the monster, but it is made up of things you HAVE seen before. Well, something I learned in psychology is you cannot think up something you have never had an encounter with in some way or form. So for a blind person who has never seen wheels, cars, chasis', etc... to imaging what a car looks like is impossible. He can imaging the feel of one, the smell and sound of one, but untrue to popular belief he could not form a picture from this. So I think blind people dream emotions with other relating senses as mentioned above.

"Dark Basic rocks! Although the things you can do are not as dynamic as C++, just think how long it would take to do the same thing! I can get FPS of over 60!"
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Blazer
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Oct 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 31st Aug 2005 05:15
Link
describe the color red to someone who's been blind from birth............


























RGB(255,0,0)

I discriminate against discriminating people....
Back to top
Profile PM
Dave J
Retired Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 11th Feb 2003
Location: Secret Military Pub, Down Under
Posted: 31st Aug 2005 09:44
Link
Quote: "An interesting thing I learned in my OpenGL course was that if you're blind from birth, then, say 20 years later you miraculously get your vision back, that you will have no depth perception. You will never be able to learn that things off in the distance are smaller than in front, so you would constantly see the small mountains directly in front of you. You can't learn it after a certain age. Very mysterious."


A similar thing was in a movie where someone regained their eyesight but had no perception of perspective, although I think they eventually learned it... before losing their eyesight again. Obviously it's just a movie and not real, but there you go.


"Computers are useless, they can only give you answers."
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Lost in Thought
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Feb 2004
Location: U.S.A. : Douglas, Georgia
Posted: 31st Aug 2005 09:45
Link
Quote: "So for a blind person who has never seen wheels, cars, chasis', etc... to imaging what a car looks like is impossible."


There is not much in this world that is truely impossible and there are limitless things that we still do not and probably will not ever understand, how can you say this as fact? The only way to know for sure is find someone who was blind from birth and can now see. Ask them what they dreamed.

Quote: "He can imaging the feel of one, the smell and sound of one, but untrue to popular belief he could not form a picture from this."


Again until you have been blind how can you say this as fact. Its like tracing something with your eyes closed ... you can still see the shape in your head as you trace it. I agree they more than likely could not form a picture that resembles the car, but I think they can surely form some picture to keep in their thoughts to help them remember what properties of the car were.

Back to top
Profile PM Email
Teh Go0rfmeister
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 17th Aug 2003
Location:
Posted: 31st Aug 2005 13:10 Edited at: 31st Aug 2005 13:17
Link
Quote: "Quote: "So for a blind person who has never seen wheels, cars, chasis', etc... to imaging what a car looks like is impossible."

There is not much in this world that is truely impossible and there are limitless things that we still do not and probably will not ever understand, how can you say this as fact? The only way to know for sure is find someone who was blind from birth and can now see. Ask them what they dreamed."


it is true, it's impossible to imagine things that you've never had some experience with, let alone dream of them. thats why as you get older, you've had more life experience, so your dreams seem to become more and more abstract, whereas when your an infant you'll mostly dream about the ginger bread man.

edit: so in answer to the question, i think that blind people would see in their dreams just like they see in reallity - which is nothing, the same as we see in our dreams the same way we see in reality. blind people aren't deaf, so they would still have sounds in their dreams, taste, touch and smell wouldn't exist though, in the same in our dreams we can't touch, smell or taste, hence the "pinch test" to see if we are truely dreaming

^--- thats how i'd imagine it'd be from a blind person, but i think the only way would be to ask a blind person, im sure they'd be able to give a straight answer, its not like a "anser to the universe" question is it?

edit: http://van.hep.uiuc.edu/van/qa/section/Everything_Else/Humans_and_Animals/983040715.htm and there we go

Back to top
Profile PM Website
Van B
Moderator
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Oct 2002
Location: Sunnyvale
Posted: 31st Aug 2005 14:03
Link
Ahh, kinda how most of us guessed it would work out .

Thanks for posting the answer.


Van-B

Put those fiery biscuits away!
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Sephnroth
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Oct 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 31st Aug 2005 19:10
Link
Quote: "in the same in our dreams we can't touch, smell or taste, hence the "pinch test" to see if we are truely dreaming"


nonsense. I have had plenty of dreams with those qualities. a common one is falling or flying and feeling the wind in your face, lots of people experiance such a one. Some people have had dreams so real where they can smell the flowers etc - possiably they had a window open on a summer day whilst sleeping or maybe the brain simulated it during an intense dream. I know i have dreams where i can certainly touch and feel things - in fighting dreams i have felt hit before or able to feel a sword or something im holding, in romantic dreams i have felt skin etc. I often have friends over and have had such dreams whilst im sleeping and they are still up playing games or watching tv and on asking they swear i wasnt moving in my sleep etc - so i doubt i was touching myself unless they were secretly molesting me in my sleep >>;

Take wet dreams for example. The.. "effects" of one of those tend to come from the simulation of touch and feeling, not because you subconciously have put your hands in your pants or are currently doing 15 pelvic thrusts a second into your duvet If that was the case no one with room mates would ever get any sleep

DarkSDK/WinAPI Tutorial
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Killswitch
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd Oct 2002
Location: School damnit!! Let me go!! PLEASE!!!
Posted: 31st Aug 2005 19:51
Link
Only 15pm? Somebody is a mighty bit lacking in some departments

~It's a common mistake to make, the rules of the English langauge do not apply to insanity~
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Sephnroth
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Oct 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 31st Aug 2005 20:02
Link
15ps not pm!

¬.¬

DarkSDK/WinAPI Tutorial
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Ian T
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 12th Sep 2002
Location: Around
Posted: 31st Aug 2005 20:32
Link
Quote: "in the same in our dreams we can't touch, smell or taste, hence the "pinch test" to see if we are truely dreaming"


Untrue, because I absolutely do and I always have. I've occassionaly woken up still 'feeling' traces of the dream with those senses (generally when I fall and hit the ground and wake up still feeling pain). I know it's somewhat rare, but plenty of people in the world are like that. The only true 'test' I know of to see if you are awake or lucid dreaming is to try to read something. I don't know anyone who has ever been able to actaully read text in a dream, has something to do with that portion of the brain being inactive.

If I looking for blog
Back to top
Profile PM
Peter H
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th Feb 2004
Location: Witness Protection Program
Posted: 31st Aug 2005 21:19
Link
Quote: "I don't know anyone who has ever been able to actaully read text in a dream, has something to do with that portion of the brain being inactive.
"

well, i've made up text in a dream, but never read it, basicaly sometimes i would fall asleep while i was reading and in my dreams i would dream that i was still reading...though it was more of a narrative than reading because i never saw any pages...(

(So i would be reading tom swift than i would fall asleep and dream of listening to myself read a weird version of tom swift basicaly... )

but as i said i didn't actually look at a page and read teh words..

"We make the worst games in the universe."

Back to top
Profile PM Email
Ace Of Spades
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 6th Mar 2005
Location: Across the ocean
Posted: 31st Aug 2005 21:55
Link
Quote: "in the same in our dreams we can't touch, smell or taste, hence the "pinch test" to see if we are truely dreaming"

honestly, where did this idea come from? I have done a hypnosis experiment before where I was put to sleep and basically whatever the teacher whispered to me is what I dreamt, and one of the things was to smell a variety of objects to prove that you can affect any working sense while dreaming in a state of hypnosis, so this idea of yours is 100% false, people DO have these senses in their dreams.

"Dark Basic rocks! Although the things you can do are not as dynamic as C++, just think how long it would take to do the same thing! I can get FPS of over 60!"
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Louiz ofRohr
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 11th Nov 2004
Location:
Posted: 1st Sep 2005 00:48
Link
Wow.. a hand full of brilliant posts
thank you guys..

Quote: "in the same in our dreams we can't touch, smell or taste, hence the "pinch test" to see if we are truely dreaming"

And I don't agree with that, too

A simple example:
Didn't you ever dream with someone calling your name, but on reality
it was someone trying to wake you up?
hmmm.. and it is possible to see the face of the person.. the mouth saying your name.. the expression
is just like the real life (if the person is calling in aloud or loud voice it changes the dream)..


And it is normal that the child dream with the bathroom

It still doesn't generate images in the dreams of blinds from birth.. but..
yep.. external things can change the dream.. feelings, temperature..
etc etc etc..

The worst foe lies within the self..
Back to top
Profile PM
Tinkergirl
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 1st Jul 2003
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 1st Sep 2005 02:49
Link
I think of it more like - dreams are mixed up experiences that our brains create to help us organise our day.

The experiences it uses to do so, are different for all of us. Some happen to feature images, some happen to feature sounds etc.

Think of dreams as less 'moving pictures' as 'crazy mixed up experiences. Whatever experiences you have 'in the bank' can be used.
Back to top
Profile PM
UnderLord
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd Aug 2003
Location:
Posted: 1st Sep 2005 05:10
Link
Don't you think that if your born blind that you would see your dreams the way you see your life everyday? in darkness?

They can smell feel and hear things but to them it must be frightening what if they had a nightmare they wouldnt know what to do all they'd hear feel or smell is weird things that they would not know surrounded in darkness try and invision this.

being blind having a nightmare all you would know is the smell the feel of things you'd trip over in your nightmare the screams or sounds in your nightmare. Would you not be afriad?

I know i'v had some wacky dreams more or less when im sick. Im just trying to imagine myself as a blind person having a nightmare. I couldnt see anything but only smell feel and hear things unfamiliar sounds in your head scary thought really.

Yes in nightmares you can smell things your brain will duplicate weird smells and make it all seem real but only because when you have a nightmare for a limited time you think it is real and then you wake up and realize it wasnt.

I'v had some dreams where i thought it was all real then i'd wake up and realize i just got ****in owned by my brain =\

When we talk to god, we're praying. When god talks to us, we're schizophrenic.
Back to top
Profile PM
Ace Of Spades
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 6th Mar 2005
Location: Across the ocean
Posted: 1st Sep 2005 05:13
Link
Quote: "I'v had some dreams where i thought it was all real then i'd wake up and realize i just got ****in owned by my brain"


Purely awesome. Mind if I put that quote in my sig?

"Dark Basic rocks! Although the things you can do are not as dynamic as C++, just think how long it would take to do the same thing! I can get FPS of over 60!"
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Louiz ofRohr
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 11th Nov 2004
Location:
Posted: 1st Sep 2005 06:01 Edited at: 1st Sep 2005 06:04
Link
Quote: "I think of it more like - dreams are mixed up experiences that our brains create to help us organise our day.

The experiences it uses to do so, are different for all of us. Some happen to feature images, some happen to feature sounds etc.

Think of dreams as less 'moving pictures' as 'crazy mixed up experiences. Whatever experiences you have 'in the bank' can be used. "

Each word is perfect here.. great thinking..

now mix this with:

Quote: "They can smell feel and hear things but to them it must be frightening what if they had a nightmare they wouldnt know what to do all they'd hear feel or smell is weird things that they would not know surrounded in darkness try and invision this."

(btw.. would be scary.. I tried to imagine me: blind plus deaf )

It makes sense hmmm.. it is the truth..

The brain's capability of creating things is really amazing, but
it depends of some experiences..
Just like when you use *code snippets* to understand the rhythm and start creating your own sequences..

So this point in my mind I can't change:
we don't know how is *blue and don't dream with blue things
'till we see something that is blue..

so:
Quote: "in darkness?"

what is the concep of darkness for a blind person?
It didn't ever see something, so if darkness is the *opposite
of light (vision) for us, then what should be the opposite of
light for a blind from birth?

We can close the eyes and *SEE the darkness..

The worst foe lies within the self..
Back to top
Profile PM
Back to top

Login to post a reply

Server time is: 2024-11-15 19:18:46
Your offset time is: 2024-11-15 19:18:46