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Geek Culture / OpenGL for Windows Vista

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Great Knight
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Posted: 1st Sep 2005 23:38
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Not sure of how many people heard, But Microsoft is killing OpenGL pretty much. Here is a link to the OpenGL board about it. They want more people to use DX it seems.
http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/cgi_directory/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=12;t=000001

This won't be good for any programmer that uses OpenGL or API that uses OpenGL.

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JoelJ
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2005 00:23
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there was a post on this...and i believe that people read that wrong the wrong way, they're not KILLING anything.

"people who wear clothing with tech themes for the purpose of gaining a social label are no different than teenagers who wear large sweatpants to look edgy"
-Wikipedia "Nerd"
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re faze
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2005 02:52
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thats a real stupid idea.

"I am what I am and that is all I can be -J King"
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Jiffy
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2005 14:49 Edited at: 4th Sep 2005 07:24
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Quote: "But Microsoft is killing OpenGL"

Not OpenGL! Murderers! He was my best friend!
(Is their hitman Mr. Gates himself?)

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Killswitch
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2005 15:10
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God, why don't the OpenGL people just get off their arses and write a new Vista compatible version.

~It's a common mistake to make, the rules of the English langauge do not apply to insanity~
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Raven
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2005 15:18
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Because actually this is a case of mis-heard information.
OpenGL 1.1 in Windows 95-XP is a software based MCD, which means that if your graphics card doesn't have native support for OpenGL; it fall-back to that driver.

Now people are complaining because Microsoft have updated this driver to wrap OpenGL to DirectX, so now rather than being 10% the speed from Software Rasterisation; it's now closer to 50-60% of the speed it should be. They also have upgraded it to OpenGL 1.4 providing more support than ever before.

There are NO RESTRICTIONS on Hardware Drivers from creating thier own OpenGL MCD just like they do now. However Aero will be unable to use it's enhanced functionality when using an OpenGL Window.

So you won't be able to have your OpenGL Windows do 3D transformations, or alpha, etc. Which to be honest isn't exactly a *huge* loss and we also still have 11months until Vista is released. With ATI and NVIDIA all making deals with Microsoft to order to change the support for Aero to allow these enhancements it's likely the released versino will support them; atleast through MCD.

Honestly, the OpenGL community blew the problem completely out of proportion; and if ANYONE actually ever learns to use the search feature, you'll know I've made a topic on this a month back when the news broke and also provided some quotes from ATI and NVIDIA on the subjet.

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blanky
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2005 21:53
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Ok. Did it never occur to anyone that once the OGL->D3D team have finished making an OpenGL 1.4 wrapper, they might upgrade it to OpenGL 2.0?!

And, like a few in this thread have said, there's nothing stopping other people from making OpenGL implementations.

(Dunno about porting the whole system to D3D though - I mean, trying to force a good chunk of the world to upgrade the hardware before they're allowed to use a new version of Windows... Linux could take off yet, for low-end machines...)

[Insert extremely witty comment here] :: Add me to MSN if you like, but don't expect any big favours [unless you like VB6]. ... IDK!!
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Killswitch
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Posted: 4th Sep 2005 00:40
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Or people can just choose not to use Vista with all the fancy graphics - it comes with a less hardware straining version of the XP desktop iirc.

~It's a common mistake to make, the rules of the English langauge do not apply to insanity~
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PiratSS
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Posted: 4th Sep 2005 05:02
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I believe that these are just rumors so people start switching to Linux.


http://www.teamrequest.com
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Rob K
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Posted: 4th Sep 2005 05:52
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I suspect it isn't quite as simple as Raven suggests - otherwise the OpenGL.org community would not be that upset.

However, I have not been able to find Microsoft's official announcement of what will happen with respect to OpenGL support under Vista. Almost all the news sources covering the topic are simply paraphrasing the OpenGL.org announcement, which gives very little detail.


BlueGUI Windows Plugin
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##GERI##
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Posted: 5th Sep 2005 15:19
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EHH.

OpenGL is different from d3d.
D3D is supported by Microsoft, OpenGL is by Silicon Graphics Inc.
Is not need to Microsot support the OGL: the OpenGL drivers is integrated to the video card drivers (Ati, nVidia, XGI, SiS, 3Dlabs), they creating ther own algorithms, using new technologies, so supporting the opengl.

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##GERI##
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Posted: 5th Sep 2005 15:21
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What you want from a alpha test?

The default opengl driver in the WinXP is emulated too, and no problems - the graphics drivers owerwrite it when installing.

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Raven
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Posted: 5th Sep 2005 16:31
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Quote: "I suspect it isn't quite as simple as Raven suggests - otherwise the OpenGL.org community would not be that upset."


Well no it isn't that simple, but then it is.
I mean the main problem was a misunderstanding after Siggraph; where Microsoft were showing off thier new OpenGL 1.4 support and were proud that it was being emulated through DirectX with only 50% the normal OpenGL speed.

The OpenGL saw this and the fact that DirectX is now the lowest level of the Kernel...

API -> Driver -> (GDI+ For OpenGL) -> DirectX Kernel -> Card

So what's happened if they've assumed quite a lot without getting the facts and suddently claimed Microsoft are trying to kill off OpenGL in Windows Vista.

Reality is OpenGL bundled with Windows has always been Emulated via Software, to a huge speed loss. Now it's being Emulated via Hardware.
It also again has always used GDI+ to output via Emulated, the DirectX Kernel has no real use other than outputting without using the main Kernel.

There is also bitching that it's OpenGL 1.4, so again people were under the impression this was the maximum version of OpenGL Windows Vista is going to support.

It's far mroe a case of the standard scare mongering against Microsoft. While the lack of Aero support is slightly annoying for OpenGL developers; as far as the real support goes, it's almost identical to every other Windows since 95. While you'd expect this sort of behaviour from TheInquirer where they very rarely disembowl fact from fiction or bother doing research over making a good story... it's not what you expect from the OpenGL.org site.

It should be noted that OpenGL.org isn't run by SGI, it's not the official site. Despite it's seen as such now. It's still for the most part "fan"-run.

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##GERI##
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Posted: 5th Sep 2005 18:41
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Raven. This is in WinXP too. The opengl is transalating down to D3D with the default drivers. This is only a temporaly thing.
If you install a normal (not not officialy supported gamma versions) videocard driver in the future, the OpenGL will be 100% hardware accelerated, the microsoft opengl>d3d wrapper will be owerwritten by the cards opengl driver.

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