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Geek Culture / the movie to set pace for all

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jacob w
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Posted: 11th Sep 2005 02:49
which movie do u think set the pace for now-a-day 3d movie (not like shrek or anything im talkin about like with really people just using 3d graphical interface)

i think it was the first star wars, cause noone had seen anything like it before.

http://liquidxsoftware.com
TDP Enterprises
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Posted: 11th Sep 2005 05:47
Toy story was really the first, in 95.......but star wars did set it for realism, even in the 70's and 80's too.(mini models rock!!!!!)

“A lot of people approach risk as if it’s the enemy when it’s really fortune’s accomplice” - Sting“
.......S-S-D-D.......
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Posted: 11th Sep 2005 10:49 Edited at: 11th Sep 2005 10:51
the last starfighter is the earliest film I can think of with pure computer fx in it (most of the space/flight sequences), Tron doesn`t count cos most (all?) of those effects where actualy standard movie effects and not computer generated, it was just the film that was set inside a computer, likewise the first star wars was done using normal special fx, yoda was a puppet, ILM blew up real models of starfighters, the deathstar trench was a huge model in the carpark etc.




the average IQ is 100...but the people that took the test where trying to look smart. most people don`t go over 50.
Area 51?, I`m more intrested in what they have in areas 1 to 50
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 11th Sep 2005 12:30 Edited at: 11th Sep 2005 12:31
The first Star Wars didn't use computer graphics. Tron did use a lot of computer graphics. I think that Titanic set the standard for what is acceptable in a modern film.

Dazzag
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Posted: 11th Sep 2005 13:36 Edited at: 11th Sep 2005 13:37
Got to be Tron. And last starfighter was right up there. Star Wars was just a bunch of blokes in England somewhere blowing up little plastic models. Think they used computers to control the movement of the starships though.

Oh, and the first movie that really really impressed me with computer graphics was probably Lawnmower man. I mean Tron was impressive (remember AutoMan?), but it looked like blokes with blue lines on them. Last starfighter was pretty cool, but graphics didn't really blow you away. Even at the time. Lawnmower man took my breath away.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Dazzag
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Posted: 11th Sep 2005 13:40
Oooh, I forgot about Star Trek 2. Wasn't that the 1st all digital CGI scene or something? The one with the Genesis device? That was totally awesome.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Kangaroo2 BETA2
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Posted: 11th Sep 2005 13:47
I can remember being blown away by Terminator 2, those were easily the most impressive effects I'd ever seen at the time. However unfortunately watching it back nowadays whilst its still a great film, the effects look tacked on and almost cliche in the way they've been copied so many times. The real eye openner for me was when I first watched Jurassic Park in the Cinema, I couldn't believe that computer effects could render something on such a large scale, and blown up on a huge screen and still look believably 'alive'. Still a great movie today.

[edit] On a related note, I have a friend whos 18, not the sharpest tool in the box. He has an obsession with Hilary Duff, and after watching the Lizzie Maguire Movie said in all seriosuness "that issabella really looks like Lizzie I wonder where they found her?" I replied that they are the same actress. "I didn't know she had a twin", no they film it separately and put them together on a computer I explained. "But her hair is a different colour" - at this point I conceeded that he must be right and it is indeed a canny likeness.

TDP Enterprises
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Posted: 11th Sep 2005 14:48
Star Wars i believe was the first to fully utilize the green and blue screens, which i beleieve counts as computer. George lucas's special effects company (THX) became huge and was the first of its kind in film industry. So i still think it was star wars.

“A lot of people approach risk as if it’s the enemy when it’s really fortune’s accomplice” - Sting“
.......S-S-D-D.......
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Posted: 11th Sep 2005 15:41
na! blue screen is a traditional fx trick, blue light can be filtered out and a scene dubbed in, but its works best if you don`t have frizzy hair or angora sweaters in the scene , its a known weakness of cameras, the original star wars was all models and computer controled cameras, I have the DVD special editions with the "making of" sections on them, it`s amazing how much George Lucas had to go through to make those films, they even tried to scrap the original at one point since they thought he was spending too much on a kiddies adventure film, the studios at that time had all been bought out by companies like pepsi and levis, they didn`t know diddley about films, he even got a massive multi million dollar fine and ended quiting the directors guild or something like that just for not doing his title sequence the "proper" way, even now he can`t employ some actors and cameramen or they would be banned from working in films (it`s something like a closed shop union from what I can make out)

Tron had post fx for the characters suits, but I think most of the rest of it was models, there was about 15mins of computer animation iirc, and most of that was the light cycle race and the grid bugs, the rest was standard special fx, last starfighter used a lot more computer graphics.

the Amiga and the video toaster did more than anything to make computer fx affordable and easy to use, I remember when the video toaster came out, it was so awesome the magazines where running pictures from renders for months.



the average IQ is 100...but the people that took the test where trying to look smart. most people don`t go over 50.
Area 51?, I`m more intrested in what they have in areas 1 to 50
Dazzag
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Posted: 11th Sep 2005 17:14
I thought ILM came from Lucas special effects. That and Pixar (wasn't that the original computer called, which eventually became the company?). Thought THX was the movie theatre setup he helped create.

Must watch the behind the scenes effort again.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
TDP Enterprises
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Posted: 11th Sep 2005 17:15
yeah, i thought thx was the name, it might be something else.

“A lot of people approach risk as if it’s the enemy when it’s really fortune’s accomplice” - Sting“
.......S-S-D-D.......
Dazzag
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Posted: 11th Sep 2005 17:17
Pretty positive THX is just the theatre setup. ie. surround systems etc.

I believe they originally had a computer to work stuff out, and they called it Pixar. Some people left and setup Pixar, while the rest carried on as Industrial light and magic (ILM). Which, I think, became a seperate company to Lucas after a while.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
TDP Enterprises
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Posted: 11th Sep 2005 17:18
alright

“A lot of people approach risk as if it’s the enemy when it’s really fortune’s accomplice” - Sting“
.......S-S-D-D.......
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Posted: 11th Sep 2005 17:26 Edited at: 11th Sep 2005 17:28
THX is the surround sound/audio system they developed and sell the use of to other studios.

ILM is industrial light and magic, but they started out with models, they didn`t do computer models originaly, just computer tracking of models made from balsa and plastic they blew up with squibs, George Lucas is big on digital FX though and pushed for more and more CG over the years, he said he felt limited by what he had in the begining, thats partly why he added extra bits to scenes in eps 4,5 and 6, partly to make them fit better with 1,2 and 3 and partly because he had wanted to do these bits the first time around but couldn`t afford it, ILM and THX are parts of Lucasarts (theres actualy 5 companies IIRC but I cant remember them all).



the average IQ is 100...but the people that took the test where trying to look smart. most people don`t go over 50.
Area 51?, I`m more intrested in what they have in areas 1 to 50
David R
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Posted: 11th Sep 2005 18:23
Quote: " Toy story was really the first, in 95"


Have you never seen Luxo. Jr? That was by Pixar in 1984. It wasn't exactly a film (just a short film) but it as bloody good for its time.

Its somewhere in the pixar site (and if you saw Toy Story at the cinema, it was shown just before the main movie started).

You'll also recognise a certain type of rubber ball from that film too....

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Posted: 11th Sep 2005 18:29
no i havent heard of that

“A lot of people approach risk as if it’s the enemy when it’s really fortune’s accomplice” - Sting“
.......S-S-D-D.......
David R
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Posted: 11th Sep 2005 18:36
I think you should recognise it now;

http://www.pixar.com/shorts/ljr/index.html

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TDP Enterprises
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Posted: 11th Sep 2005 18:48
ohhh, that was made in 84? Holy crap, i thought that was made around the same time as the ovie was.

“A lot of people approach risk as if it’s the enemy when it’s really fortune’s accomplice” - Sting“
.......S-S-D-D.......
Kangaroo2 BETA2
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Posted: 11th Sep 2005 20:04
Luxo was 1986 not 84... but still, an excellent animation even by todays standards So much life in the lil blighters

TDP Enterprises
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Posted: 11th Sep 2005 20:08
yeah, even for 86, thats excellent, they didnt have all of these nifty little programs to help them make it either...

“A lot of people approach risk as if it’s the enemy when it’s really fortune’s accomplice” - Sting“
.......S-S-D-D.......
jacob w
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Posted: 11th Sep 2005 21:58
lucas films had to make the programs them selve

http://liquidxsoftware.com
Flindiana Jones
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Posted: 11th Sep 2005 23:51
Quote: ""But her hair is a different colour" - at this point I conceeded that he must be right and it is indeed a canny likeness.
"


tee hee!

BenDstraw
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Posted: 12th Sep 2005 02:28
does anyone remember Beast Wars. How old is that. that show had 3d graphics.

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BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 12th Sep 2005 03:17
I think the standard for realistic cgi in movies was set by Jurassic Park. Sure you had Pixar doing their early movies, and Tron and the Last Starfighter, but Pixar did cartoons (so give them the standard for cartoons thing) and Tron and Last Starfighter looked horrible.


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Posted: 12th Sep 2005 03:21
did you know(omg i know, another useless fact that rotts ur brain!!!!)that the incredibly graphicaly-simlpe show south park, uses an advanced version of the program used to make jurassic park?

“A lot of people approach risk as if it’s the enemy when it’s really fortune’s accomplice” - Sting“
.......S-S-D-D.......
Jeku
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Posted: 12th Sep 2005 08:59
I thought South Park was originally made in Flash or Director. Could be wrong though. They look like cardboard cutouts.

Raven
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Posted: 12th Sep 2005 09:28
-> LucasFilm
-> THX (THeatre eXperience)
-> Idustrial Light & Magic
-> Dreamworks
-> LucasArts

Those are the companies he owns iirc

Luxo Jnr was finished and shown for the first time in 1989, was created in Alias/2 with the help of Renderman. The Shader System that modern hardware Shaders are based upon.

Quote: "Tron and Last Starfighter looked horrible."


When they were released they were incredible, imo.
Tron was the first to use CGI (1982)
Luxo Jnr was the first pure CGI (1989)
Reboot was the first television series to use pure CGI (1991 i think)

Can't remember the first TV series to use CGI though, probably was Star Trek : The Next Generation.

BatVink
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Posted: 12th Sep 2005 16:37 Edited at: 12th Sep 2005 16:42
TDP Enterprises
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Posted: 13th Sep 2005 00:09
south park was originaly done with cardboard, then they got a raise and moved to software

“A lot of people approach risk as if it’s the enemy when it’s really fortune’s accomplice” - Sting“
.......S-S-D-D.......
BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 13th Sep 2005 01:18
The thing with Tron and Last Starfighter though is that you could tell it was CGI. I say Tron when I was young, not in 1982 of course but when I was about 5, then when I was 7 or 8 old folks figured I was old enough to watch Jurassic Park. When I first saw Tron I knew it was added with computers, and it looked cool, but goofy. I could not tell that Jurassic Park used any cgi when I saw it, thought they used a bunch of giant robots. Even movies that come out now don't always match up to its quality.


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TDP Enterprises
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Posted: 13th Sep 2005 01:25
no, it seems graphics dont improve by leaps and bounds like they used to.....

“A lot of people approach risk as if it’s the enemy when it’s really fortune’s accomplice” - Sting“
.......S-S-D-D.......
Chris K
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Posted: 14th Sep 2005 00:39 Edited at: 14th Sep 2005 00:39
Ah, as usual Raven's post skimps on the actual facts.

Just to clear up...

Quote: "Luxo Jnr was finished and shown for the first time in 1989"

Pixar.com - 1986, Luxo Jr. has it's premiere at Siggraph

Quote: "Luxo Jnr was the first pure CGI (1989)"


?

First CGI animation was done WAY before this. Lasseter's first film was done in 1984, but CGI animation had already been around for years. The trouble was, the animations were made by the people who made the software and generally sucked. Mainly just glass balls with The Worst Ever Refraction (TM) bouncing round landscapes.

indi
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Posted: 15th Sep 2005 09:00
Quote: "Tron had post fx for the characters suits, but I think most of the rest of it was models, there was about 15mins of computer animation iirc, and most of that was the light cycle race and the grid bugs, the rest was standard special fx, last starfighter used a lot more computer graphics."


tron was well over 50 layers of acetone and photographic material in very large sizes layered on top of each other, composited in korea for cheap, but this process created problems with wet bubbles in between the cells. they apadted those irregular problems to be apart of the scene by adding a small sound to them as if its data bits flying by.

as for the CGI in tron it had to be created with a similar language akin to povray 0.01
it took months to render the scenes and the models were basically boolean 3d operations to create the shapes. the scenes were just black painted movie studio warehouses and a few blocks made of wood which could be moved around to simulate ledges or background obstacles.

Ive watched the creation of tron many times.

ILM and thomas knoll is how photoshop got its full fledged wings before adobe systems bought it out. ILM (George.L) and the university of UTAH have a lot to say for todays photoshop incarnation. as well as post production techniques.

the latest state of the art packages to work with is shake and maya in combination for advanced compositing as featured in the matrix and moulon rouge, lord of the rings etc..

'massive' the program was used to create the army scenes in LOTR but composited using shake.

most of the disney work created 70 years ago is still more alluring then some renders.

however stuff like reboot was amazing in its timeframe.

If no-one gives your an answer to a question you have asked, consider:- Is your question clear.- Did you ask nicely.- Are you showing any effort to solve the problem yourself 

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