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Geek Culture / Anyone else having this problem with steam run games?

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Osiris
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Posted: 27th Sep 2005 23:46
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Well, before fridays big update to get ready for DoD: Source, counterstrike: source and Hlaf life 2, ran perfect on the highest settings, but now after the update, they run slow as hell, regardless if thier settings are at thier lowest or highest, the FPS still sits at aound 10-20, where as on friday before the update it sat at a reasonable 60-80 FPS, anyone else having this problem?

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 28th Sep 2005 00:27
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Actually yes, I am. I tested out DoD today and it ran like a dog. It's not consistently slow though, it stutters.. dropping frames all over the place, then for a few seconds it's fine. Then it dies again. I gave up in the end.

Will try CS:S and see if it does the same there. If so, I *won't* be amused.

People don't quit playing because they grow old.
They grow old because they quit playing.
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Eric T
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Posted: 28th Sep 2005 00:33 Edited at: 28th Sep 2005 00:38
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IT seems this is a steam wide issue caused by the idiotic decision to bring the XBOX HL2 enhancments to the PC version of ALL the source engine games. At first it just seemed it cut draw distances (ALOT, especially annoying in CS, when your tyring to awp someone and they just disapear all of a sudden)... but then when DOD came out, it became apparent that most people aren't able to play it, for it has caused HUGE slowdowns along with the cut draw distances.

Good news for me though, I can still play DODS on my 9600xt no problem.

BTW, if your using a nvidia card, try turning off HDR in the video options>Advanced, that may help a bit.

Edit2 - In some cases, DOD may appear to be running slow, even though your net_graph 3 will show a 60 FPS... this is caused by the other people in the server running at 12 FPS, thus creating a giant lag pocket. It also may be caused by a server not able to handle the game server itself, I ran into a few of those last night.

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CattleRustler
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Posted: 28th Sep 2005 00:53
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wonderful.
ruin a slew of great games for idiotic crap.

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 28th Sep 2005 00:54
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Is this NVIDIA specific? I updated ForceWare today but to no avail. Call of Duty 2 and BF2 both work perfectly, so it's definitely a Steam issue.

Heh.. even the Gods at Valve screw-up

People don't quit playing because they grow old.
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Eric T
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Posted: 28th Sep 2005 01:01 Edited at: 28th Sep 2005 01:03
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Not sure if its Nvidia specific, but I would venture to say it could quite possibly be. Most of the people I know are ATI users (considering I built their computers, and I typically build with ATI) and are playing it close to flawlessly, with the exception of the new Draw Distance stuff.

The only time a steam update has really screwed me, was one where they screwed 64bit OS's accidentaly (one of the changes they made that week made it so on win64, steam would take overly to much priority while playing CS or HL2 and would crash the rest of the system). That was fixed in a week after it was confirmed though...

Edit - I am running the 5.5 cats on my system btw, I heard that CS freaks out on the 5.7 and 5.8's, so I just stuck with these. And I don't think the people who I built for have upgraded since I built it for them

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spooky
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Posted: 28th Sep 2005 01:09
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I too updated my HL2 recently and game is very stuttery where before it was smooth as silk. Reading the steam forums it appears to be mainly a Nvidia problem and people saying new nvidia beta drivers may fix problem but some say no. Hopefully valve will fix problem soon.

Boo!
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Eric T
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Posted: 28th Sep 2005 01:14
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Lol, thanks for taking a venture into that madhouse called the steam forums for us

Its the only place on the internet I fear...

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R2D2s Jilted Lover
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Posted: 28th Sep 2005 03:07
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Man I bought HL2 the other day (which I have just clocked ) and I dodnt think much of this steam business! Whats all this crap that I have to be online to play single player HL2? And often it says that steam is running when its clearly not! Really p*sses me off!
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Kangaroo2 BETA2
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Posted: 28th Sep 2005 03:28
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"Heh.. even the Gods at Valve screw-up"
Steam IS a screw up, full stop. I don't care how good a game is, no company should be big headed and pushy enough to do what they are forcing people to do. I bought a legal copy then downloaded an illegal and "fixed" one just so I could play it properly. EVIL steam. BAD steam. rah

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Osiris
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Posted: 28th Sep 2005 03:34
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Quote: "Is this NVIDIA specific? I updated ForceWare today but to no avail. Call of Duty 2 and BF2 both work perfectly, so it's definitely a Steam issue."


It beter not be, because BF2 however slow anyways runs as fine as ever, someone should probably explain to vlave that the X-Box is NOT a PC, however close they think it is to one, its not, no X-Box has firewall and antivirus running in the backround, or sometimes even trillian, and besides the X-Box is a specialized to play games, but im sure like you when I heard that some enhancements were being added to the HL2 engine I was happy, some cool new things and such, but not any more im not, I just need to say, they better fix this soon, but im just glad its not just me, because tech support made it seem that way.

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Raven
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Posted: 28th Sep 2005 04:02
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Yes, the problem is NVIDIA Specific. The issue is with the DirectX Pipeline, for now the only real solution is to force it back down to DirectX 8.0 / 8.1

mat_dxlevel 80

in the command console will do the trick. the performance on this system (FX5200) went from 14fps to 40fps in the Counter-Strike Benchmark. You will loose HDR and unfortunately IQ too... Many Shaders will not run. I'm talking back and forth with Valve at the moment about the main issue that has caused this.

From what I gather so far the main issue is going to be primarily with the move from DirectX 8.1 (9.0.0) -> 9.0 (9.0.6) Pipeline. For the low end cards like FX5200 you will find most of the speed loss comes from the Shaders now being 2.0 instead of 1.4/1.1

This is particularly noticable with the lighting models (hense why the flashlight kills the framerate dead). This is all because of the NVIDIA Pipeline is the only one that's changed. As I said I'll try to find some more and better solutions.

No way in hell I'm playing at Dx8 level on a 7800!

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Rpg Cyco
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Posted: 28th Sep 2005 04:14 Edited at: 28th Sep 2005 04:15
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Indeed.

This update makes it default back to what it originally did for GeForce FX cards (8.1). It's funny how the top of the line FX card (5950 Ultra) can't even run DirectX 9 decently. Oh well, I didn't pay for it (borrowing it from a nice friend).

Runs as it did before the update for me now. Thankfully.

- Rpg Cyco

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Deadwords
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Posted: 28th Sep 2005 04:15
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Sh*t!!!
i was planning to buy the silver package on steam! now i'm stuck with a bunch of slow games? i was so happy to buy CSS (with my new PC), Half-Life 2, DoDS and all the others, but now it's slow?!

do you think my system will be slow?
Geforce 6800GT, 1 GB RAM, Pentium4 3.4 ghz

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Raven
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Posted: 28th Sep 2005 04:31
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Well I can run everything maxed out on my 6600GT, but the frame-rate dips sharply and stutters until you default to 8.1

Which is crazy as it was using a 9.0 pipeline before hand.
Something I've found is that Call of Duty 2 is the same though.

Unless I Force Dx7, it uses Dx9... which imo looks identical but runs like crap. Very weird, especially as FarCry and Angel of Darkness both run fine.

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UnderLord
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Posted: 28th Sep 2005 05:06
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I gotta force 8.1 but it still has a little bit of slow down but its play able unless i get into a big fire fight then im screwed. But what ya gonna do? i know its only steam because the rest of my games BF ect work just fine =\

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Osiris
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Posted: 28th Sep 2005 05:30
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@Raven

Thanks that litle fix helped, they kept telling me to set it to -dxlevel81 but that didnt work, thanks, the game runs perfect now. When you get an answer out of valve post it here on what thier planning to do about this.

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Lukas W
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Posted: 28th Sep 2005 10:01
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when im going to play hl2, it sais it is uninstalled (what the?) it IS installed!

so i try to re-install it. but everytime i try steam tells me: "server is too busy, please try again later" it has been like this for weeks

steam suck

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Raven
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Posted: 28th Sep 2005 10:08
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it's alright this end

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Osiris
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Posted: 28th Sep 2005 14:09
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Lucas,

I had that problem too, when steam was updating HL2 and it crashed, you probably need to do what I did, and completely reinstall steam, because it might be reinstalled, but only partially.

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Me!
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Posted: 28th Sep 2005 14:17
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steam sucks ok!, now I have "lost" my password (it refuses to recognise the one I had written in the back of the manual when i registered) I can`t get them to sort it, 5 mails so far and all I got was an auto response thing telling me to do what it tells you to do on the website, DUH!, so now I have the bloody disk and can`t play the game I payed for, mind you, it used to annoy the behind off me when it insisted on NOT running Halflife single player until it had downloaded the multiplayer update off an overloaded server and installed it, made a "quick game" take over 30 minutes to start, I have this realy big stick with Valves name on it



we know where area 51 is, but where are areas 1 to 50?, and what do they do there?.
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CattleRustler
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Posted: 28th Sep 2005 15:22
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does this crap affect Nvidia 6800 series PCI-E cards as well? I am assuming it does since its all under the same driver set. Hopefully its sorted before saturday, my gaming day

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lagmaster
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Posted: 28th Sep 2005 15:42
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i had a few problems when steam updated for me yesterday, wouldnt get past "updating steam" and sort of disappeared when it tried to login with my name.

disappointed dod:s didnt come with my collector's edition of my hl2 wont buy it now tho.

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Lukas W
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Posted: 28th Sep 2005 15:57
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ok Osiris, i will try that.

when installing stuff, i have had some problems:
i get a crc error.. does anyone know what that means? crc read error.

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 28th Sep 2005 16:25
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Quote: "disappointed dod:s didnt come with my collector's edition of my hl2"


Which one did you buy? It came with mine!

Not that I can play it at the moment But they'll fix it soon enough I hope.

People don't quit playing because they grow old.
They grow old because they quit playing.
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R2D2s Jilted Lover
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Posted: 28th Sep 2005 16:49
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Ah so thats what this is all about - yeah I just had an auto-update for HL2 and bang! It appears my processor has hiccups! It's really annoying but at least Im not alone on this one! I dont want to hate steam but it's hard not to really isnt it...
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lagmaster
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Posted: 28th Sep 2005 17:01
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hl2 collector's retail. a read on valve's forum states that we're not entitled to dod:s
something todo with the contract and that dod:s wasnt included in it. only online buyers on hl2 silver/gold are able to get it free.

btw i've noticed no problems so far with hl2. tried a few mods aswell. seem fine

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JoelJ
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Posted: 28th Sep 2005 17:46
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Quote: "Heh.. even the Gods at Valve screw-up "

yeah, it's called "Steam"

I haven't opened steam, nor am I getting DOD, so would that make me immune? or do they force everyone to update regardless?


My BLOG really sucks...
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 28th Sep 2005 17:55
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*shrugs* Steam has always worked flawlessly for me.

Infact it still does.

It's just the update that farked the games, not Steam. It doesn't matter if I'd installed the update from a CD, or downloaded it, or got it via Steam - it would still have farked up. The means by which it got onto my PC isn't the root of the problem. Some piss poor bugs in the update itself is the problem.

People don't quit playing because they grow old.
They grow old because they quit playing.
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##GERI##
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Posted: 28th Sep 2005 17:56
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Yes, i have too problems with steam.
Teh problem is: cant play warez games at public servers LOL

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JoelJ
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Posted: 28th Sep 2005 18:22
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Quote: "Steam has always worked flawlessly for me."

I just don't like the way it works. The "Stay Offline" Mode sucks, and never works, which is a pain when I take my computer over to my friend's house (who only has Dial-up) we can't play any Steam games on the lan because it wants me to connect before I can stay in offline mode, wtf?


My BLOG really sucks...
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R2D2s Jilted Lover
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Posted: 28th Sep 2005 19:28
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Quote: "mat_dxlevel 80

in the command console will do the trick. the performance on this system (FX5200) went from 14fps to 40fps in the Counter-Strike Benchmark. You will loose HDR and unfortunately IQ too... Many Shaders will not run. I'm talking back and forth with Valve at the moment about the main issue that has caused this."


Nice one Raven this seems to have fixed the problem completly on my end. It was really starting to wind me up but now is fine.
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Freddy 007
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Posted: 28th Sep 2005 20:11
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I haven't noticed any problems at all, neither with DoD, CS Source, or Half-Life. And I've played all of them after the update.

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Raven
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Posted: 28th Sep 2005 23:17
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Don't expect a quite fix on this.
There will no doubt be official word over the weekend on this.

A temporary fix is due sometime before monday, at unfortunately a loss of IQ. The current projection is the next update that will fix the main issue to be released with Lost Coast.

So we're looking at a month. On the plus side they are completely revisiting the nvidia pipeline. Rebuilding it from the ground up, so Lost Coast is going to include the ability to change the Shader version, not just the DirectX.

This is also so they can add Shader 3.0 Support for the X1-Series due out next week.

: sighs : Guess for now just have to put up with it. I'm still confused to why 6-Series and 7-Series are affected. I mean it's still more than playable, but you wouldn't expect them to be affected so much.

On the plus side nvidia are going to be releasing thier own 'patch' in the next point release. 78.05/6 due out soon.

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 29th Sep 2005 10:05
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It shows they didn't do as much testing as they should have done...

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Me!
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Posted: 29th Sep 2005 11:58
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it shows that forcing people to install patches regardless is a dumb idea, if people had the option they could have avoided this by just waiting for the next patch.



we know where area 51 is, but where are areas 1 to 50?, and what do they do there?.
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Dave J
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Posted: 29th Sep 2005 13:25
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Quote: "Steam IS a screw up, full stop. I don't care how good a game is, no company should be big headed and pushy enough to do what they are forcing people to do. I bought a legal copy then downloaded an illegal and "fixed" one just so I could play it properly. EVIL steam. BAD steam. rah "


The ultimate aim of Steam is to provide a way for Valve to distribute their games without having to go through a publisher. Considering a publisher takes 95% of a games profits, the developer ends up with very little left. Of course not everyone purchases through Steam so creating a system that will allow people to buy the game from the store as well as over the internet has obviously created a lot of complications. Good idea, bad execution.


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blanky
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Posted: 29th Sep 2005 19:10
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One of the two issues I have with Valve is that they don't test their patches extensively enough. I mean, sure, you can't be expected to spend the same resources you did on getting it tested for the retail version, but if you have such a wide audience you must do at least something.

The other one is that I'm on dial-up, and their forced patch downloading is .. not nice.

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Raven
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Posted: 30th Sep 2005 02:22
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The patches aren't forced by the way.
They're just on Auto-update by default, you can turn that off. Just Right-Click on the game and go to Properties.

Switch it's content update type.
Valve have always had a habbit of testing internally something for a week the leaving it to the dogs. So they never see the real low-end performance scale.

Unfortunate really.
Again Steam is a truely amazing marketing system, that Valve just haven't supported or developed properly. (Ex-Microsoft Employees though so, well you get the idea)

It's a firm hope of mine to see TGC installing a Content-On-Demand System for thier products. If it's properly developed it would work very nicely. GameSpy already have on the best versions of this in the industry called Direct2Drive.

Always the way though, someone has to trailblaze to others can learn from the mistakes and make something good come of it.

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