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Geek Culture / psp vs ds

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hotron
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Posted: 1st Oct 2005 13:18
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i have read a forum this- http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=60021&b=2 - and have decided to do a similar forum,

ups and downs of psp:
UPS:wireless internet, great graphics, can play games,movies picture music ect. easy buttuns.big screen. trusted name. analog stick!
DOWNS: short battery, interface is sometimes hard. keep on forgetting wich way to put in umd

ups and downs of nintendo ds
UPS:long battery life, touch screen. microphone, cheap(er than psp)can play gba games. fun games(and wider selection)trusted name(too!)
DOWNS: no analog stick, bad(er) graphics. no internet ect ect

here you can argue and use *slaps in face* or *puches real hard* or *kicks in tender part* about wich is best!

hotron entertainment
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Raven
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Posted: 1st Oct 2005 13:46
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Do you have both?
Personally while I see quite a bit of different on adverage of games, this is more down to Nintendo and Sony style.

I've had to tinker development wise with both the past month, and realistically speaking while the PSP has more physical processing power, graphically they're not that different. What's more is the Cache and RAM systems basically are designed so that the extra power can only really be used for decoding movies and WiFi Networking.

Personally at this point I would side heavily with the Nintendo DS. Larger game library, cheaper, runs long enough to get into a game and/or movie.

Quote: "DOWNS: no analog stick, bad(er) graphics. no internet ect ect"


This is wrong btw.
Analog Stick is replaced with Touch Sensitive Screens.
Graphically they both can do about the same.
WiFi Internet is currently not enabled, but it is present. Nintendo are currently working on providing 'Internet WiFi Stations' so that when it goes live you can basically log-in to the internet and play multiplayer games FOR FREE.

Right now you've got to be within a WiFi network for the Sony PSP, and this generally means being at home paying for it. Which if you don't already have a WiFi Home Network; and Broadband Internet will cost you a small fortune to get.

The PSP also doesn't have native WiFi. Meaning you can ONLY connect to a WiFi Network Router/Hub. You can't simply sit in the park with your makes using the WiFi for a local network like you can with the DS. Nintendogs is the first game to really take advantage of this, but the first program came out on release.

That same program allows you to connect to the internet, check e-mails, and message friends. Can't remember the name though.

Quote: "DOWNS: short battery, interface is sometimes hard. keep on forgetting wich way to put in umd"


If you are anything like my brother then putting the UMD in the wrong way is the least of your troubles. If you twist it just right, there is so much give the eject mechanism triggers.. shooting your game spectacularly across the room.

First time my brother was playing with it, I was hit in the side of the head by Smart Bomb. Was not bloody pleased!

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robo cat
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Posted: 1st Oct 2005 13:57
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Quote: "wireless internet"

Is this really a bonus? The DS will have it soon and also the memory storage limits of the PSP means you will have a PC at home to store it. The wireless internet needs to be in range of this PC to work (am i correct?) so you might aswell use the PC!

Quote: "great graphics"

In comparison to what? I've played a few PSP games and haven't found them to be better than the DS, it has to be said that Nintendogs has the best graphics on any handheld game and the graphics of Medievil (apparently good) aren't at all superior to Mario 64 DS.

Quote: "can play games"

You can't consider this a plus when the DS does it, and its a really poor plus as it goes without saying.

Quote: "movies picture music ect"

The DS will have this when Play Yan 2 comes out. About the PSP movies, I think the advertising is a bit misleading. They show clips at very high resolution, but as soon as you compress a movie down enough to fit in the memory card, as my friend did, the quality is appaling. Granted, its better than nothing but for the extra cost of the PSP over the DS, you could get a higher quality portable DVD player and moniter, as my friend uses instead of his PSP now.

Quote: "easy buttuns"

Give one reason how they are better thn the DS!

Quote: "big screen"

Approximately 2 times as big as one DS screen, hmm that seems like the same amount of screen space. Granted it has a higher resolution, but the graphics of the games and the quality of movies doesn't really make the screen resolution worth it.

Quote: "trusted name"

lol, everyone of my friends who have owned a PS2 has had it break and need to be opened up to repair at least once. One friend was forced to get a slimline one when the PS2 finally gave up on him.

Quote: "analog stick"

People's biggest complaint about the DS analogue touch screen control was the lack of feeling the actual tilt (like a real analogue stick). I agree its not great, but neither is the PSP analogue stick. Its not actually a stick, it handles like the touch screen one. Atleast it is fixed in one place, but instead you can feel it grind against the casing, wearing a circular mark around it. Its funny how sony fans mocked the placement of the Gamecube analogue stick and now sony put the PSP's lackluster attempt in a more awkward position. Most people I know with a PSP use the D-Pad instead.

Quote: "no analog stick"

See above.

Quote: "bad(er) graphics"

See above.

Quote: "no internet ect ect"

See above.

Quote: "here you can argue and use *slaps in face* or *puches real hard* or *kicks in tender part* about wich is best!"

All of the above.

Simple... yet fun!
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David T
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Posted: 1st Oct 2005 14:21
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Quote: "bad(er) graphics. no internet ect ect"


Badder? >_<

Been said above. DS has internet - Mario Kart DS can be played online.

"A book. If u know something why cant u make a kool game or prog.
come on now. A book. I hate books. book is stupid. I know that I need codes but I dont know the codes"
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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 1st Oct 2005 16:12 Edited at: 1st Oct 2005 16:14
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Keep in mind the DS folds up to protect the screen and touch screen. Sure PSP has a beatiful large LCD screen, but what will happen to that screen after a couple of months? I need sometihng I can quickly chuck in and out of my bag as I travel quite alot everyday. And I DON'T wanna lug around annoying bags and bulcky screen protectors.


The future is here, and I can't afford it.
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TDP Enterprises
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Posted: 1st Oct 2005 17:59
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as every1 has said b4, the ds and the psp are for 2 different audiences, i personally own a ds because i like the innovation that is goin on there

“A lot of people approach risk as if it’s the enemy when it’s really fortune’s accomplice” - Sting“
.......S-S-D-D.......
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re faze
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Posted: 1st Oct 2005 18:24
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there are better hacks for the psp, i figured out how to run homebrew code and store games in flash.

you dont beat the system. the system beats you.
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Osiris
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Posted: 1st Oct 2005 20:33
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Quote: "Is this really a bonus? The DS will have it soon and also the memory storage limits of the PSP means you will have a PC at home to store it. The wireless internet needs to be in range of this PC to work (am i correct?) so you might aswell use the PC!
"


No because if you can read at all, it would say to you that you just need to be near a hotspot, any where close enough to pick up an wireless connection.

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Kangaroo2 BETA2
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Posted: 1st Oct 2005 21:10
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I still think this is the best mix of the two...
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=61418&b=2

But out of the two... um well they are entirely different. Personally on the DS I really hate using the touch screen like an analogue stick for games such as mario and metroid. I can't get used to it, after many, many attempts at trying. Games prupose built for the touch screen however do some really cool things that the psp just can't do.

The PSP has some great games, espcially if you like racing games,a nd the screen is much nicer. BUT its REALLY easy to scratch, and the screen on the GP32 or GP2X are better and the machines half the price. I will NEVER consdier buying a movie on UMD as well as DVD, why not just copy a DVD over to a GBA or GP2X flash card?

The UMD drives on the PSP are their worst downfall in my experience, I've experienced very long loading times, poor battery life, and I would imagine the life cycle of these units isn't very long eitehr, due to the constant moving parts.

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soapyfish
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Posted: 1st Oct 2005 22:50 Edited at: 1st Oct 2005 22:54
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@Kangaroo2 BETA2
Do you have an msn or aim address I can use to contact you as I'd like to ask you a few questions about the gp32/gp2x.

If you don't have either msn or aim is it okay if I e-mail you the questions?

Thanks in advance.

*tries to think of witty and original signature*
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blanky
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2005 00:32
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@Kangaroo2 BETA2

Have you tried the thumbstrap? It's a bit awkward, but some people like it better than the stylus.

Part of the 'Emergency Response Noob Shooting Team' :: Feel free to add me to MSN, but don't expect any big favours.
I AM _NOT_ A MOD, I AM ONLY HUMAN (although I fly in my spare time).
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Deep Thought 42
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2005 03:21
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Quote: "trusted name"

Nintendo isn't a trusted name? Gamecube hasn't died on me once and it doesn't require a cleaning disc. The thing is awesome. PS2 is high maintence.

"There are no stupid questions, just a lot of inquisitive idiots."
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Raven
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2005 06:08
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Quote: "The PSP has some great games, espcially if you like racing games,a nd the screen is much nicer. "


It has like what... 10 games in total. Well maybe not that few but the entire title range isn't even close to a reasonable amount, and it's been over a year.

(maybe only just released here but Japan has has it since Oct 04 and America has had it since January 05)

Last time I checked there was like 3 racing games. None of them are any bloody different to the Playstation 2 versions. The Playstation 2 doesn't have any "fun" racing games anymore, it's all about looking good.

Wipeout is better on the Playstation
Ridgeracer is better on the Playstation
Grand Turismo is a game for guys who get off on car stats, and perfect simulation of handling

Quote: "there are better hacks for the psp, i figured out how to run homebrew code and store games in flash."


You should check the Nintendo scene then. While it is far easier to provide development control on the PSP, the Nintendo DS currently has far far better development support. The communities are those who've been serving the DS. Equippment is readily available. SDKs are exactly that, rather than simply a way to access the system.

I've seen nothing exciting comming from the PSP UDC. On the other hand I've seen quite a few promising games appearing from the DS UDC. Even home developers don't really want to have anything to do with the PSP. Which echo's what the public developers are really saying.

The only companies developing games for it are basically companies Sony is forcing too right now.

Quote: "Gamecube hasn't died on me once and it doesn't require a cleaning disc"


True, the GameCube discs can take far more punishment. However if it becomes too scratched it will cause the machine to crash.

"Your GameCube has encountered and error.
Please turn it off at the mains and retry."

or something like that. I get it A LOT with the early Resident Evil games, it only happens when your accessing a part of the disc it can't read. The problem can be compounded if you've been playing for more than a few hours and the Cube gets a little too hot.

While the discs do have a much longer life and can be read through all sorts of things; you still need to protect them cause it's not flawless.

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Jeku
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2005 07:25
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Raven, do you know how hard it is to develop for the DS? I've been fooling around with GBA development the past few weeks, and it's a little tricky, but logical. There's a perfect emulator for the GBA which makes it easy if you don't want to wear out your GBA with development.

Do you know of any way to test out DS apps? I've heard that you can rig up your wireless PC to send the DS software over the wireless connection, but you still need to have a blank cartridge for that. This doesn't make sense to me as the DS has the capability to download games from other DS', sans empty cartridges.

Ah well.

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Raven
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2005 07:55
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Provided your used to the GB/GBA it's actually refreshingly simple.
I've not done anything with the 3D yet, just be messing with using the texture mapping and such. You'll find some things easier to do in ASM, not for speed but because you have more control.

Best GBA Emulator I used was No$GMB, it was an excellent emulator as you could sit there with the ASM, and Hex open watching it run through your code. While it's easier coding in C to understand quickly what's going on, with the GBA again I'd often find while I was being taught ARM coding to use ASM more.

There is a GB/GBA/DS dev community which is quite large, that I found after looking at that Doom DS game. Remember showing you it, they had a reasonbly large selection of tools. All of my stuff for it is on my laptop at work, so I'll get back to you on it all on Tuesday.

The way they connect at work is through the WiFi, as its easier than having leads everywhere. You can still manually flash the carts though, the chinese shop LikSing something ya know the one who always has all of the cool hardware. They sell most of the hardware you need for developing on anything.

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Jeku
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2005 08:39
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Cool, thanks for the info. Did you show me a DS Doom game? I will dig in my archives for it

The best GBA emulator I've found is VisualBoy Advance. It's cool because you can output debug text to its console.

I'm thinking about porting WordTrix over to GBA for experience. It's crazy how every resource (images, sounds, music, etc.) have to be converted to large arrays and read in as pure data. I've never worked on a device that was so close to the metal as the GBA. It's fascinating, really. But there's tons of cool stuff built into the hardware, such as tilemap scrolling, and various special effects (mosaic, etc.).

We should do a GBA game together--- you supply the graphics

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Raven
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2005 09:24 Edited at: 2nd Oct 2005 09:53
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That would be pretty cool.

[edit]

http://www.dual-soft.com remembered the name of the site heh

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Raven
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2005 10:06
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http://neimod.com/dstek/ - DS Technical Information
http://double.co.nz/nintendo_ds/ - DS Development Tutorials
http://www.devkitpro.org/ - Homebrew SDK

and I've uploaded an Emulator for testing

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Osiris
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2005 10:07
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Right well I just got myself a PSP, and all I can say is that it rocks! There is only one thing I didnt like, it was that they only gave me a crappy 35MB memory card :-( they should give you a bigger one to start with...

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The admiral
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2005 11:08
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Personally I think in the past nintendo games have been too childish and from a pure power level psp is better plus a big sony name to back it up. From what I saw the psp graphics were better and yes I have seen games played on both.

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Darkbasic MADPSP
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2005 13:20
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I'm getting a psp what should i be aware of?

Gtas back and bigger and better than before
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Kangaroo2 BETA2
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2005 15:09
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soapyfish - yeah sure, email me if you wish, I'll answer if my spam fiilter doesn't eat it

By racing games for the DS I was specifically refering to Ridge Racer, Wipeout & Burnout - all of which are great, and Gran Turismo & a new GTA are coming out soonish. As I said in the other thread though, personally I'd rather play these games on a home console anyway - but these are the best portable racing games I've played since Grand Prix on the supervision

The thumbstrap is the only way that mario or metroid become remotely playable I would never consider using the stylus or a finger for those. Unfortunatley thou for those style games I still believe an analogue stick would be infintiely more suited. But the touch screen is great for other types of games, I love the pacman game were you have to draw pacmen to eat ghosts, and warioware touched and project rub are great fun

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Kangaroo2 BETA2
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2005 15:14
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Darkbasic MAD " I'm getting a psp what should i be aware of? "

1. Only buy it in a shop and test it before you pay for it. MANY units have dead pixels and sony will not replace them unless they have more than 15 I believe.

2. the left button out of the four is prone to breaking, because the actual button is not placed directly below it, due to space restrictions by the screen. it works fine, but be VERy gentle with it, no hammering away in beat em ups and you should be fine

3. Don't buy a POP station from me on ebay

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Darkbasic MADPSP
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2005 15:17
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ok i'll be getting one off of game.net tho because there is 0 left in the shop nere by when they have over 15 on there site so if any gets damaged i'll take it there thanks for the replie

Gtas back and bigger and better than before
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Kangaroo2 BETA2
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2005 15:53 Edited at: 2nd Oct 2005 15:56
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Most shops won't take back a PSP with less than 5 dead pixels, and those have to be in the centre of the screen! You will hopefully get liucky though, it was only the first batch that had major problems with them Good luck. Oh and please buy GOOD games for it rather than wasting money on the latest FIFA or Poor Movie liscence, it might encorage Sony to finance some more inovative things

Fair play to them they've done some cool original stuff with the PS2, but we haven't seen much innovation from the PSP yet. But as I said, there are some really good (if unoriginal) games on PSP, so I'm not discounting it yet

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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2005 17:07
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Quote: " I still believe an analogue stick would be infintiely more suited."


You've said it.

COUGH



COUGH


The future is here, and I can't afford it.
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Jess T
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2005 17:15 Edited at: 2nd Oct 2005 17:16
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Jeku, Raven, I'm starting deving for the DS soon too

I set up my environment with devKitPRO and nabbed a few emulators and a whole load of example code from CVS to have a bash, but still haven't gotten around to doing anything more than compiling and running a few example codes.

My Flash Cart ( 1GB ) should arrive in the mail in the next week, so I'll definatly be fiddling around with it then!

The WiFi internet is *almost* completely cracked. Once it is, it will be ENTIRELY possible to transmit ( wirelessly ) games to the DS ( as long as they're 4MB or less, to fit in the internal download cache ), and they can be executed as per a normal Download-Play game.

Also, Here's a whole load of links I've found over the last few weeks ( copy+paste straight from my bookmarks, so you can sort them out )...



Anyway, I would definatly be interested in developing a game if you guys wanted to ( I have a lot on my plate right now, but a couple of months away seems pretty open ).

Jess.

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Raven
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2005 17:45
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Sweet googly moogly. That's a lot of references.
Not sure what I'll be doing in a few months, right now I'm sorting out everything for my X-Box 360 DevKit.

Actually having fun trying to put it together because the Pentium D isn't available here yet. Atleast not in any retailer that isn't trying to ripp me off. Not entirely thought much past getting it going.

While doing DS and PSP research last month, I did think it would be a cool idea to make an ORPG. You know something along the lines of Crystal Chronicles or something, where it's online with friends. Yet your limited to a small universe. With both the DS and PSP, I reckon it would be possible to have some sort of story-builder so that you could download and create new stories. I mean both have like 32MB at thier disposal from the get go.

FF:CC did work very well using GBA controls, and after seeing Battlefront 2 on the PSP it looks like that can handle it nicely.

It'd be an interesting project to tinker with atleast.

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Osiris
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2005 18:40
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Hey by the way, does anyone with a PSP know how to change the backround of the menu? Its not in the instruction booklet.

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Dot Merix
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2005 18:44
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If you have version 1.5 anything then just change the month.. different color for each month..

If you have 2.0 it's pretty self explantory, just pick a background, press triangle and then choose select image as wallpaper or something like that.

Not saying this specifically to you Osiris,

I really dont know how so many people find the PSP's menu interface so hard to figure out.



WindowsXP Home(Service pack 2), Athlon XP 2400+(2.01Ghz), 1GIG Ram, Ati Radeon 9800Pro 128MB.
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Osiris
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2005 18:53
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Well I didnt see anything about changing it in the menu, they could of just had an option for it.

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Kangaroo2 BETA2
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2005 18:59
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Megaton - right on!

Jessticular - Wow thats cool! I'll certainly have a look over those links when I have time, thanks!

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Darkbasic MADPSP
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2005 19:33
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Quote: "FIFA"


Don't worry i don't like football anyway it's burnout and gta for me and nfsrivals and tonyhawks

Gtas back and bigger and better than before
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Kangaroo2 BETA2
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2005 20:23
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Burnout on the PSP is pretty awesome, basically the same as the Ps2 versio of Burnout 3, and that was a GREAT game

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soapyfish
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2005 20:34
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Quote: "The Playstation 2 doesn't have any "fun" racing games anymore"


Burnout, SSX

And the whole dead pixel thing, ifyou buy one and it's got a dead pixel or two just make a small crack in the screen (small hammer and nail maybe) take it back to the shop, say it was like that when you got it, and problem solved. Ofcourse if the replacement one they give you has more dead pixels then the first one you'll wish you hadn't botherd. And it's people doing things like that which discourage shops from taking things back in the first place.

*tries to think of witty and original signature*
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Jess T
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2005 20:47 Edited at: 2nd Oct 2005 21:22
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Raven and K2,
Don't get too excited over those links, I think a few of them are Flash Linkers and/or Carts, and then a few are choice Threads from forum.gbadev.org , other than that, it's all what google gave me, and what browsing forums for a few days turned up

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Kangaroo2 BETA2
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2005 21:18
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cool, thanks

Yes and I'll agree that Burnout 3 & 4 are the most fun I've had with racing games in like, um ever. SSX Tricky was good, but 3 sucked...

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Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2005 21:52 Edited at: 2nd Oct 2005 21:55
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What's so bad about GT3 (and GT4, I think that has been released )? If you like realistic driving games then it's still one of the best (imo). Burnout 3 (and probably 4) is definitely the best racing game on the PS2. I liked all the SSXs . They all improved on each other, why do you say SSX 3 sucked Kangaroo? I've read that some people didn't like the open endedness, but I thought that was the coolest feature of the game , and the way you could ride all the way down the mountain, through all the courses was sooo good. Perhaps the voiceover chappie got a bit annoying at times, but to be honest I don't let things like that get to me.

If they make an SSX for the PS3 it'll undoubtedly be the extreme sports arcade game to rule them all (I think SSX 4 is still PS2, but I could be mistaken).

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Raven
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Joined: 23rd Mar 2005
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 2nd Oct 2005 23:29
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Quote: "What's so bad about GT3 "


The same as what's bad about FIFA, or Madden NFL.
Each year it's the same bloody game with just more extra's on the CD.

GT was great. But you expect more from sequals, and they never really provided it. Even GT5 with it's awesome looking cars and such missed the one key aspect that really every simulation fanatic wants. REALISTIC DAMAGE. Not just to the body, but also the handling and such. Almost every other game has it now, but GT doesn't. Doesn't feel the same simulation if your constantly in god mode.

I've always prefered TOCA tbh

As for the games mentioned, basically what I said above. They're identical to the PS2 games but with much poorer graphics.. at the end of the day with nothing new it makes it pointless.

It's stupid really the only 2 games that interest me on the PSP are Metal Gear Acid and Tetris (although they call it something different). The rest I've played and felt, "meh, they play better on the PS2 with better graphics."

Smart Bomb is alright, and Free Running is something to get excited about. In the end though the current selection are just portable version of PS2 games; and they loose much of the feel cause the PSP is just different to use than the Dual Shock. There's no getting around it.

especially as I dislocate my thumb every bloody time trying to use that thumb slider. Seriously it just feels like one of those touch pads you have on a laptop. Horrible bloody thing.

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Kangaroo2 BETA2
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Location: Somerset / UK
Posted: 3rd Oct 2005 00:23
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"why do you say SSX 3 sucked Kangaroo?"

Because the framerate and the smoothness dipped dramatically. What I liked in Tricky was that it was so tight, well designed, and smooth to play, it just felt - right somehow SSX3's open ended ness made it less well designed by nature, and seemed to play havok with the smoothness of play. it was silky before, just like your pad actually was the player

Maybe it didn't SUCK per se, that was harsh - but I was bitterly dissapointed

Thats the Xbox version I'm talking about, but I would assume the xbox version was the same or better than the ps2... it MAY just have been a really bad port, and if so I apologise to it

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